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WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:Didn't the author do an interview where she basically said the publisher latched on to that, and she basically intended it the way you described? I'm cynical enough to believe that completely. Not only does it allow the publisher to push out a book that tickets the "LGBTQ" boxes, it also allows them to tick the "Empowered female lead!" box as well. The book is great (the first one anyway), and the sexuality doesn't mean poo poo in the book, but it's cheap and easy promo material for a publisher or whoever is in charge of marketing to show how "This book is different and quirky and also IT'S GOT GAY PEOPLE OMG". That makes people who are trying to be as woke as possible look at the book and not read some random biography about some dude or chick in another country growing up and dealing with genocide and eating dirt and being a child soldier or whatever, because this might check more boxes on their punchcard of tolerance! Like I said, I'm cynical as hell about this kinda stuff, and if the book is a big hit (which it needs to be), you can bet the market is gonna be flooded in a year or so with really bad variations on the theme that will end up NOTHING like the actual book because the publishers will invariably miss the point of it being a good book because it's written well and is interesting, and instead focus on the wrong things because they didn't read the goddamn thing, they just saw "OH poo poo LESBIAN NECROMANCERS, gently caress WE NEED GAY WIZARDS AND BISEXUAL WARLOCKS IN A LOVE TRIANGLE". It'll be twilight/hunger games all over again. BUT In happier news, I enjoyed the prologue. Kinda dug the cover art too. Weird boob armor but honestly, reminds me of Hela from marvel comics. If you are gonna be rocking bone armor, loving rock it with style. edit - Upon rereading, I am apparently in a bit of a mood today and didn't realize it. 
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Sep 30, 2019 23:19
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I'm of two minds about the tagline being 'Lesbian necromancers etc!'. It feels exploitative as Stupid_Sexy_Flander pointed out but I also feel like it could, possibly, be a good way to let people know 'Hey, this book might have characters that share your voice' which is usually a good thing. That being said, if I were Tamsyn Muir I'd want the Warren Ellis quote on the cover but that's me.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:26
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Goddamn, dude who did the cover art painted it with his off hand cause his regular was hosed up. That's... that's really humbling. My off hand can't regularly get a spoon to my mouth. https://twitter.com/TommyArnoldArt/status/1178713559867494400
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Sep 30, 2019 23:29
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I'm not a huge fan of the marketing, but whatever, it got me to read Gideon and Gideon is really, really well written and fun. It's not often I run into a concept that sounds amazing and then it also has amazing execution.Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:Goddamn, dude who did the cover art painted it with his off hand cause his regular was hosed up. how if I try to do anything with my right hand it's like I've forgotten how to function. Childish squiggles, can't hold a pencil, the works.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:33
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Kalman posted:I mean, Harrow absorbed Gideon’s memories/personality/power/whatever, so maybe we’re getting a Gideon viewpoint after all. That occurred to me as well and I would absolutely be on board. StrixNebulosa posted:if I try to do anything with my right hand it's like I've forgotten how to function. Childish squiggles, can't hold a pencil, the works. I actually had a class in art school where we were encouraged to draw with our off-hands to train them. It's certainly possible to do, it's just a huge pain in the dick to teach yourself basic motor skills as an adult.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:44
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I'm reading Declare by Tim Powers, and I'm wondering if it gets better or the payoff is worth it? Nah, the supernatural bits of that book aren’t actually all that exciting in the end. I think the beginning fourth or so was the best part.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:54
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Declare often gets sold as "horror + spy fiction" as if both aspects are present in equal measure. What you're actually getting is a spy novel with a touch of horror.
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Sep 30, 2019 23:56
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General Battuta posted:Second person worked in Raven Tower, I’m sure it can work here. people bitch but if the story is good, the story is good.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:15
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For me, knowing the Gideon was a lesbian rocketed it up the reading priority list from "want to read eventually" to "want to read right now", so it worked for at least one person!
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Oct 1, 2019 00:15
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Stupid_Sexy_Flander posted:I'm reading Declare by Tim Powers, and I'm wondering if it gets better or the payoff is worth it? The thing with Declare is, it's historical fiction spy novel first, fantasy horror second. What's amazing is that it works as both at the same time; everything in the book is completely consistent both with spy tradecraft and with all known details from the historical record. The gaps are just filled in fantastically. Also, it's pretty much the first modern "urban fantasy" written, unless you count things like Dracula.
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Oct 1, 2019 00:18
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https://twitter.com/BloomsburyBooks/status/1178618613693112320
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Oct 1, 2019 00:19
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mewse posted:I recently finished reading Traitor and Monster and I thought they were very good. I was worried they’d be too smart for me and was hoping for political intrigue on the approximate level of Dune and I feel like that’s what I got. The political scheming feels like it kinda recedes to the background in the second book I'm in the middle of Monster and I think I should have reread Traitor since I read that one so long ago. I'm kinda confused about the structure of Falcrest. Is it supposed to be like Ancient Rome where there is both a Senate (Parliament) and Emperor?
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Oct 1, 2019 01:05
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Oh holy poo poo yes.
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Oct 1, 2019 01:06
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DeadFatDuckFat posted:I'm in the middle of Monster and I think I should have reread Traitor since I read that one so long ago. I'm kinda confused about the structure of Falcrest. Is it supposed to be like Ancient Rome where there is both a Senate (Parliament) and Emperor? The emperor is a literal figurehead who might be literally lobotomized, the “steering committee” with Baru’s mentor and apparitor etc is the power behind the throne and there’s a public parliament that gets pissed when Baru foments rebellion in the 1st book. The navy is supposed to be centrally controlled with purges etc but that admiral Ormsment goes rogue to go after Baru
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Oct 1, 2019 02:05
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re: lesbian necromancers--it's correct that that isn't an accurate label for the book, and yet in a way it is. It's written in that very modern voice from the kind of perspective that would think "lesbian necromancers explore a creepy space mansion" is a cool idea and so labeling it that way makes it appeal to the people it's meant to appeal to. While being, as mentioned, totally inaccurate.
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Oct 1, 2019 03:04
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No, it's completely *technically* accurate. But it's not actually representative of the story and it's a weird way to characterize it.
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Oct 1, 2019 03:15
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I told the editor to his face the marketing sucks (sorrrrry Carl) and he very patiently explained that the point is to use simple, shareable, meme-level hooks to get attention so people will read the actual copy. I’m not sold totally but it makes a kind of sense.
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Oct 1, 2019 03:29
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Well after all this I'm seriously considering spending $14 for an ebook about lesbian necromancers instead of waiting ˜12 weeks to get it from the library.
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Oct 1, 2019 03:33
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General Battuta posted:I told the editor to his face the marketing sucks (sorrrrry Carl) and he very patiently explained that the point is to use simple, shareable, meme-level hooks to get attention so people will read the actual copy. I’m not sold totally but it makes a kind of sense. That sounds like the sort of dumbass decision Facebook would come to after looking at a bunch of KPIs deprived of context. Both make them more money, so I guess neither is considered wrong. rolls eyes
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Oct 1, 2019 03:39
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mewse posted:The emperor is a literal figurehead who might be literally lobotomized, the “steering committee” with Baru’s mentor and apparitor etc is the power behind the throne and there’s a public parliament that gets pissed when Baru foments rebellion in the 1st book. The navy is supposed to be centrally controlled with purges etc but that admiral Ormsment goes rogue to go after Baru Ah okay, that makes more sense.
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Oct 1, 2019 03:42
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withak posted:Well after all this I'm seriously considering spending $14 for an ebook about lesbian necromancers instead of waiting ˜12 weeks to get it from the library. You can wait. I’m honestly not getting the wild praise for it. The setting was interesting, but the language and tone were just so weird in a way that did not ever work for me.
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Oct 1, 2019 03:53
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I guess the sequel looking at Childermass, Vinculus and other lower class characters from Jonathan Strange got shelved. Oh well, given I expected nothing I can't complain and this'll be a day one purchase, easily.
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Oct 1, 2019 04:54
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occamsnailfile posted:re: lesbian necromancers--it's correct that that isn't an accurate label for the book, and yet in a way it is. It's written in that very modern voice from the kind of perspective that would think "lesbian necromancers explore a creepy space mansion" is a cool idea and so labeling it that way makes it appeal to the people it's meant to appeal to. While being, as mentioned, totally inaccurate. Thank you, this is the first storyline description of the book that I have read here so far. I guess that description is as accurate as first contact novel is for blindsight.
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Oct 1, 2019 05:16
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ShutteredIn posted:You can wait. At this point you're in the minority, though, so
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Oct 1, 2019 05:28
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ShutteredIn posted:I’m honestly not getting the wild praise for it. The setting was interesting, but the language and tone were just so weird in a way that did not ever work for me. Nah, you should get Gideon now. The language and tone are all perfectly on-brand for the setting, it's just that the setting is loving weird in that it combines pervasive necromancy with space travel-level tech. ...it really reminds me of 40k with modern slang more than anything else. EDIT: mind, you that goddamn second person in the preview for the sequel pisses me off. FAKE EDIT 2: Yes, Battuta, it pissed me off in Raven Tower too.
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Oct 1, 2019 05:35
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Also, it's pretty much the first modern "urban fantasy" written, unless you count things like Dracula. I'm not sure what you mean here... There's plenty of urban fantasy, similar to the stuff being published today, that came out before it. Great news on the Susannah Clarke novel though.
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Oct 1, 2019 05:41
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:Also, it's pretty much the first modern "urban fantasy" written, unless you count things like Dracula. I don't think that's true at all. Declare came out in what, 2001?
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Oct 1, 2019 06:07
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TOOT BOOT posted:I don't think that's true at all. Declare came out in what, 2001? Unless HA's using a different definition of "urban fantasy" than the rest of us. (For me, modern urban fantasy starts in the mid-80s with Tea with the Black Dragon, Charles de Lint's Ottawa novels, and War for the Oaks.)
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Oct 1, 2019 06:37
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ulmont posted:Nah, you should get Gideon now. The language and tone are all perfectly on-brand for the setting, it's just that the setting is loving weird in that it combines pervasive necromancy with space travel-level tech. we gon' have a fight over Raven Tower then, because it is a perfect choice
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Oct 1, 2019 07:18
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WAR CRIME SYNDICAT posted:No, it's completely *technically* accurate. But it's not actually representative of the story and it's a weird way to characterize it. Well it's probably only one or two or three of the characters who are lesbians (and nobody actually has time to spend on sex or romance, being mostly too busy trying to not die and stuff; sexuality is mainly relevant as a character detail and a somewhat distant background motivation factor). Also the mansion is not actually in space, it's on a fairly nice planet with sunshine and breathable atmosphere and so on (although they do have to travel through space to get to it, I guess).
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Oct 1, 2019 07:22
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FuzzySlippers posted:Both Raven Tower and Broken Earth were fantastic. Bring on more second person. Italo Calvino did it so it can't be wrong.
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Oct 1, 2019 07:23
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Groke posted:Well it's probably only one or two or three of the characters who are lesbians (and nobody actually has time to spend on sex or romance, being mostly too busy trying to not die and stuff; sexuality is mainly relevant as a character detail and a somewhat distant background motivation factor). Also the mansion is not actually in space, it's on a fairly nice planet with sunshine and breathable atmosphere and so on (although they do have to travel through space to get to it, I guess). And where are planets, smartypants? 
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Oct 1, 2019 07:37
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Orv posted:And where are planets, smartypants? Well obviously they are FLAT and therefore are not in SPACE, duh.
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Oct 1, 2019 07:49
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I think part of the point of "lesbian necromancers" is representation -- sure, from a plot-centric point of view it may not be a critical detail, but it clearly impacts Gideon's point of view -- and, notably, it's not yet another setting where our first-world prejudices, etc, impact things -- she's not suffering because of her orientation, worried about society's views on it, etc -- and the author is on record as that being an intentional feature of the setting, she wants to write about worlds where it simply doesn't matter and is not big deal that some characters are LGBTQ. To me, a cis het white guy from the US midwest, it's some interesting flavor to the POV character and a nice change of pace from other (much more typical) protagonists I have read. To other readers of different backgrounds and orientations, based on reactions I've seen, it makes a huge difference. And it certainly in no way *detracts* from a super fun book. Do they over-do it in the marketing? Maybe a little, but it certainly doesn't seem to have hurt, it arguably may have helped the book stand out from other books, and in any case, I'm glad I heard about it one way or another because I loved the book.
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Oct 1, 2019 08:17
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I read it because I heard of the space necromancer lesbians, it tipped it over the edge to the 'must read immediately' pile - there's still not that much well-handled representation in sci-fi.
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Oct 1, 2019 09:00
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Well, it's a very fine book, in any case, and getting more people to read it is a good thing.
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Oct 1, 2019 09:03
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Oh one of the most visible reviews for it on goodreads is really negative. I'm terrible at writing reviews but I'll write one for this since I know that's pretty important.
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Oct 1, 2019 09:42
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Groke posted:Well it's probably only one or two or three of the characters who are lesbians (and nobody actually has time to spend on sex or romance, being mostly too busy trying to not die and stuff; sexuality is mainly relevant as a character detail and a somewhat distant background motivation factor). Also the mansion is not actually in space, it's on a fairly nice planet with sunshine and breathable atmosphere and so on (although they do have to travel through space to get to it, I guess). It’s basically in space the same way every book set on Earth is in space. I feel like it gave me some And Then There Were None vibes as well? Really did a good job with its mysteries imo.
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Oct 1, 2019 10:11
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Moira Quirk's narration in the audio book makes Harrow sound exactly like the sort of prissy princess you'd want to deck in the hallway of an English boarding school.
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Oct 1, 2019 10:36
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Hieronymous Alloy posted:
I know they weren't the greatest but totally ignoring the existence of Roger Zelazny's two Amber series is dirty pool, HA. The Corwin-Amber series used Earth as the starting-off point and jumped back to Zelazny-Earth three or four times to advance the plot/solve the series mysteries. The Merlin-Amber series was more Earth focused, plot and characterwise. Ignoring Kim Newman in total is hilarious too. Kim Newman was one of the vanguards of the modern urban fantasy genre. Newman's writing style literally was and still is "all popular culture/urban legends/movies/books/comics/myths ARE TRUE,", which is the goddamn DEFINITION of "Modern Urban Fantasy" to me.
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Oct 1, 2019 14:32
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