The Science Fiction and Fantasy Thread: Read the OP, Bridge of Birds, and Murderbot

The Something Awful Forums > The Finer Arts > The Book Barn > The Science Fiction and Fantasy Thread: Read the OP, Bridge of Birds, and Murderbot

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Did Robert A. Heinlein write anything that wasn't just one giant incoherent rant about incest/whatever the gently caress else he was obsessed with? Not that I am ever going to waste my time reading any more of his works but I am just curious. Even Dan Simmon's crazy loving self can actually tone down and write a good story (The Terror), but when it comes to Heinlein it just seems to me that he wasn't interested in anything other than putting down his opinions in book form and hitting you over the head with it.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2013 17:21

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 11:22

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

General Battuta posted:

The problem with self-published work isn't that it's self-published, it's that it's bad. This generally goes even for the works that are held up as exceptions. Thus the Dresden Files metaphor: even when a lot of people say something is good, it's often still embarrassingly awful.

I agree, though, that this is probably not a super productive conversation for the thread. My opinions about the quality and worth of SF/F writing are probably more astringent than most.

In a way it reminds me of a discussion that comes up a lot in the TD board games thread - whether works should be evaluated merely by their hedonic value ('it was fun!') or by some less subjective critical theory. I'm pretty strongly in favor of the latter; I think that fiction succeeds or fails on terms beyond 'I liked it ', and that not all recommendations can be equally substantiated. But that's a topic for another place.

The vast majority of people out there either can't be hosed to really think about why they enjoy something like Dresden files or are simply not well read enough to tell the difference between it and some other, more nuanced, work of fiction. Many others are perfectly aware of the flaws in what you call "embarrassingly awful" and yet are able to appreciate the good parts of the work in spite of said flaws. You have to keep in mind that not everyone has as strong/bitter opinions about writing as you do. Yes, there are loads of people out there who recommend works based purely on their enjoyment of it. There are also many others who like to take a more critical look at what they read. There's no reason why both can't co-exist. This same dull debate goes on all the time in the gaming side of things and it never goes anywhere because nerds are too obsessive to let up even an inch.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 05:04

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Megazver posted:

He tries interesting things and he's competent but, to my taste, his writing is bland as gently caress. Serious lack of anything that excites me in a book. Couldn't get into either of his fantasy trilogies or his UF books. The space opera Leviathan Wakes he writes with a co-author is reportedly fun, but eh, I'll give it a go some day. Eventually.

My views are similar to yours. I read a significant portion of the first Long Prince Quartet book, and I don't remember anything actually happening. The plot moved slowly and like you said, the writing was incredibly bland. I did enjoy the way "magic" manifests as the andat. I eventually put the book aside but I've yet to pick it back up.

The Ol Spicy Keychain fucked around with this message at 22:24 on Jul 9, 2013

# ¿ Jul 9, 2013 22:20

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Christ, I have bought the three Gaiman works that everyone recommends and they are still sitting on my bookshelf untouched. I really should get around to starting them some time.

Which would you guys pick for a first read: American Gods, Stardust or Neverwhere?

# ¿ Jul 10, 2013 05:01

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Anyone know any good sci-fi about the discovery of a big unidentified object and that's not written by Clarke/Reynolds/Niven?

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 11:22

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Copernic posted:

From Saladin Ahmed's twitter feed.

Ahh I hope this is good. I've been wanting to get into that series for a while now, but everyone said book 2 had a huge cliffhanger so I never bothered starting.

# ¿ Aug 17, 2013 22:38

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Anyone here read the latest Locke Lamora book? Looking for some impressions but scared of clicking on the series thread and getting insta-spoiled about everything.

# ¿ Nov 4, 2013 22:44

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Anyone read Age of Myth by Michael J Sullivan? Saw it on the goodreads fantasy book of the year nominee list and just wondering if it's good

# ¿ Nov 4, 2016 00:45

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Anyone remember the name of that short story about a scientist who runs home to his daughter when a blackhole appears on earth?

Really want to reread it

# ¿ Dec 3, 2016 08:34

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Forgall posted:

The Blue Afternoon That Lasted Forever by Daniel H. Wilson.

Thanks!

# ¿ Dec 4, 2016 07:26

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Are there any fantasy books, aside from Book of the New Sun, with a focus on prose? Would really love something that's as enjoyable to read as that.

# ¿ Jan 9, 2017 21:51

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Holy poo poo so many recommends. I've been missing out. Thanks everyone

BravestOfTheLamps posted:

Well, you really need to just go back some more.

Lord Dunsany is really loving Whimsical, like in King of Elfland's Daughter:

Hope Mirrlees's Lud-in-the-Mist is just pure pleasure, not only for how surprisingly psychologically incisive it is at turns:

Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd and Gray Mouser stories are a riot that really transcend the expectations of sword-and-sorcery:

Excellent. Will be starting with one of these.

# ¿ Jan 10, 2017 03:09

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Unzip and Attack posted:

Just finished the First Law trilogy by Abercrombie. Enjoyed it but also found the conclusion to be simultaneously very cliche and overly nihilistic. A decent series that ended on a pretty terrible note.

Yeah that's very much a 'journey rather than the destination' type of series.

# ¿ Mar 5, 2017 10:22

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# ¿ May 2, 2024 11:22

The Ol Spicy Keychain: Jan 17, 2013; I MEPHISTO MY OWN ASSHOLE

Hieronymous Alloy posted:

Having read both I prefer Wheel of Time to Malazan.

Each series has its respective charms but each gets tedious in its own way too. Wheel of Time has a pretty conventional overall structure but good worldbuilding, some of the best written battle scenes in modern genre fantasy, and doesn't get enough credit for breaking some norms at the time it came out; by comparison with modern fantasy it's pretty dated, but by comparison with 1990's fantasy it was breaking down gender barriers and taking the genre in new directions (relative psychological realism in the fantasy protagonists, major female characters that pass the Bechdel test, complex multi viewpoint narratives, etc.) Without Wheel of Time there wouldn't be a Game of Thrones (quite literally; Jordan gave the first Song of Ice and Fire novel a jacket quote of "Brilliant" that catapulted its sales). The downsides are that it's way too loving long, that a lot of things that would be minor verbal tics become incredibly annoying over 14 800 page volumes (skirt smoothing, etc.), the gender stereotyping is more than a little painful sometimes even if he's trying to be egalitarian, and most importantly books 8-10 or so are just a morass of pointlessness to the point you're best off just reading the wikipedia summaries and skipping ahead to Book 11 again. Most of the ire comes from people who (justifiably) quit around book 9 or 10 and don't bother finishing it out.

Malazan on the other hand . . . ok I lied, I got to like book 8 and just couldn't keep going. There's probably a story in there somewhere and there seem to be a lot of neat-ish ideas floating around but mostly it just read like the author fed a thesaurus through a shredder and then rearranged the scraps to tell the story of his totally badass GURPS campaign, gluing the syllables together with spare apostrophes whenever they didn't quite fit. It does some stuff well, but most of what it does well was done better in Glenn Cook's Black Company series, and most of the rest seems to be hidden behind the author's cogenital inability to provide any kind of explication or exposition whatsoever. I guess I can see how it could appeal to a certain kind of puzzle-drive reader but that reader isn't me at all.

The real answer to your question though is Terry Pratchett's Guards, Guards and the character you're following is Carrot. He's a young dwarf who's been kicked out of the mine and sent to live in the big city because he's 6'5" and human and adopted and he doesn't fit in the mine any more. Then read all the Guards mini-series books, then the rest of Discworld after that.

You could also try Neil Gaiman's Stardust but it's just one book, not a series; get the edition illustrated by Charles Vess.

Deed of Paksenarrion mentioned above could also work if you don't mind the fact that it quite literally follows AD&D 1st Edition Paladin character progression, to the point that you can tell when Paksenarrion hits fourth level because she gets her Paladin's Warhorse.

I think Malazan can be easily enjoyed if you only read books 2, 3 and 5 and take the overall plot as just neat background filler. Deadhouse Gates, Memories of Ice and Midnight Tides are some really great fantasy books and I think they stand alone fairly well.

# ¿ Sep 7, 2017 14:04

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