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Countdown to 'sexism in videogames! BLARHG!' derail by self-righteous blowhards. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Jun 17, 2013 11:00
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Monomythian posted:Countdown to 'sexism in videogames! BLARHG!' derail by self-righteous blowhards. More like sexy in videogames. The game is foreign cut them some slack. No real woman looks like that, so you can't even objectify her As a male I am deeply offended by the bodies being shown on the Fighter and Dwarf. How can I possibly live up the expectations of my female peers after playing the game? Fauxtool fucked around with this message at 11:52 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 11:47
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Been waiting forever for this game and I just hope there isn't any stupid POW meter poo poo like Odin sphere had.
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Jun 17, 2013 12:02
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Marogareh posted:Been waiting forever for this game and I just hope there isn't any stupid POW meter poo poo like Odin sphere had. I tell you, discovering the infinite POW recipe was the thing that made Mercedes' campaign go from "interesting change of pace" to Forgotten Worlds. vvv: Dunno but apparently she can do a  stomp if she loses her weapon or something.
toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 12:47 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 12:31
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What's the combo that lets the barbarian crush a watermelon between her thighs?
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Jun 17, 2013 12:37
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So this is basically Shadow over Mystara 2.0, right? That was a fun game. Unfortunately it looks like they forgot to put a thief class in this one so I'll have to pass. I was seriously considering getting a Vita for this game a few years back but why bother if there's no thief analogue.
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Jun 17, 2013 12:49
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Ahhpple posted:So this is basically Shadow over Mystara 2.0, right? That was a fun game. Unfortunately it looks like they forgot to put a thief class in this one so I'll have to pass. I was seriously considering getting a Vita for this game a few years back but why bother if there's no thief analogue. There's a thief but unfortunately he's just your pack mule and general lockpicking/trap-disarming lackey. Seriously, he follows you around and picks up loot you get from killing monsters. I think the nearest of the playable classes to the thief archetype is the Elf, judging from her evade-heavy playstyle and reliance on consumables for big damage.
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Jun 17, 2013 12:55
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Ahhpple posted:So this is basically Shadow over Mystara 2.0, right? Yes, the company director/lead artist, George Kamitani worked on Muscle Bomber/Saturday Night Slam Masters and D&D Tower of Doom with Capcom before breaking away to make a new team at Atlus. He said he wishes he had a greater part in the production of the D&D Arcades and he had been trying to get his own vision of a similar game off the ground for well over 10 years. It's actually something of a miracle Dragons Crown even exists at all if you read all the history behind the company in this interview. http://www.giantbomb.com/forums/george-kamitani-413117/huge-interview-with-vanillaware-founder-george-kam-1438974/
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Jun 17, 2013 13:12
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My only gripe about the art and animation is that when you have a few players and enemies all on the same screen everything just kinda blends into an incomprehensible hodgepodge. Especially when a lot of magic effects are going off.
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Jun 17, 2013 13:30
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This game looks amazing, and the genre is one of my favourites too. I've played through the old Capcom D+D games so many times (Also, they're being re-released in HD like this month or something on PSN/XBL/PC! GET THEM!) and this is giving me huge vibes of that. Out of every genre that i've ever played I can't think of when i've had more fun than playing beat em ups with buddies.
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Jun 17, 2013 13:45
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Capcom's Dungeons & Dragons: Chronicles of Mystara (HD port of Dungeons & Dragons: Tower of Doom + Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara) is due out tomorrow on the trinity: XBLA/PSN/Steam. get hype
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Jun 17, 2013 13:51
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Gyoru posted:Capcom's Dungeons & Dragons: Chronicles of Mystara (HD port of Dungeons & Dragons: Tower of Doom + Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara) is due out tomorrow on the trinity: XBLA/PSN/Steam. It pops up on the Steam search bar but it doesn't lead anywhere. I hope the price is good and/or it comes in a combo-pack so I can get my bros in on this action.
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Jun 17, 2013 13:55
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Gyoru posted:Capcom's Dungeons & Dragons: Chronicles of Mystara (HD port of Dungeons & Dragons: Tower of Doom + Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara) is due out tomorrow on the trinity: XBLA/PSN/Steam.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:17
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Pierson posted:I'm seriously thinking about picking this up if it's cheap enough, just to see whether this style of gameplay is still appealing to me. Why was the original so beloved anyway? The only side-scrolling brawlers I remember playing way back in the Era of Arcades are the old Simpsons game and Aliens vs Predator, but people seem to think Shadows over Mystara was on another level or something. Shadows over Mystara is considered by many the best arcade Beat 'em up ever made. Never played the original but played Shadows a lot and was awesome, with a deep gameplay and four players at the same time was the pinnacle of a fun game. Let's hope this new version does well.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:24
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Pierson posted:I'm seriously thinking about picking this up if it's cheap enough, just to see whether this style of gameplay is still appealing to me. Why was the original so beloved anyway? The only side-scrolling brawlers I remember playing way back in the Era of Arcades are the old Simpsons game and Aliens vs Predator, but people seem to think Shadows over Mystara was on another level or something. It has an inventory system, a ton of branching paths, a spell system, and the actual fighting is more complex than the average brawler.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:26
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Pierson posted:I'm seriously thinking about picking this up if it's cheap enough, just to see whether this style of gameplay is still appealing to me. Why was the original so beloved anyway? The only side-scrolling brawlers I remember playing way back in the Era of Arcades are the old Simpsons game and Aliens vs Predator, but people seem to think Shadows over Mystara was on another level or something. It was. You had loads of characters which played pretty differently, you had items you could use, you could get equipment, there was branching paths and hidden zones, to the point where there's a sword only the fighter can use (I think) that's hidden in a dumb place you had to go a certain route through the game to get. There were button combos like in Street Fighter to do special moves, you have in game shops and stuff, and most importantly everything just feels solid and looks great. I'll be picking it up (probably on PS3 or PC) because i'm a huge fan. If you like the genre it's definitely worth getting.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:26
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Pierson posted:I'm seriously thinking about picking this up if it's cheap enough, just to see whether this style of gameplay is still appealing to me. Why was the original so beloved anyway? The only side-scrolling brawlers I remember playing way back in the Era of Arcades are the old Simpsons game and Aliens vs Predator, but people seem to think Shadows over Mystara was on another level or something. It's 15 bucks from what Capcom Unity is saying, and that's a steal in my opinion. Also yay other people remember Alien vs. Predator! That beat em up was amazing. I've been looking forward to this game for years, I really hope it lives up to it's production legacy.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:28
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I'm definitely getting Shadows over Mystara for my 360, but I'm also going to get Dragon's Crown (for PS3; I don't have a Vita) because I want to support Vanillaware and the development of more games like this. On the topic of the art, someone on another website had a pretty good argument for why the Sorceress looks the way she does: If you look at George Kimitani's art for characters like the Queen of the Dead where resurrection or reanimation is a big thing, they have the same breasts, because they are symbolic of the life-giving power of a mother. In some of the sorceress's art, she's cradling a skeleton's head in the same manner you treat a baby's. This also feeds into the gameplay where the sorceress isn't so much about hurting others as she is about making enemies harmless and healing her team, per the OP. She's essentially chaperoning the dungeon crawl and trying to keep the kids from getting hurt. From that perspective, all the characters are just abstracted concepts rather than people.
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Jun 17, 2013 14:52
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That entire discussion is a giant sword of damocles waiting to fall on the thread and murder it. Also I guess I'm picking up Chronicles of Mystara now, especially since apparently it has drop-in/drop-out multiplayer!
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Jun 17, 2013 14:54
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Fauxtool posted:More like sexy in videogames. The game is foreign cut them some slack. No real woman looks like that, so you can't even objectify her You know, every sentence here really doesn't jive with the one right before it.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:01
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Lotish posted:I'm definitely getting Shadows over Mystara for my 360, but I'm also going to get Dragon's Crown (for PS3; I don't have a Vita) because I want to support Vanillaware and the development of more games like this. The skeleton in the sorceress art looks like a grown-rear end human being's skeleton to me. Also the creepy dead eyes and blank expression on the face isn't very motherly, mothers usually smile and show affection to their children! The art of this game is the only thing that I don't like about it. I'm sure it's going to be fun and I'll play it if I get the chance, but man it's so bland and typical. Ahhpple fucked around with this message at 15:08 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 15:06
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Lotish posted:I'm definitely getting Shadows over Mystara for my 360, but I'm also going to get Dragon's Crown (for PS3; I don't have a Vita) because I want to support Vanillaware and the development of more games like this. Is there a reason for why her butt is about the size of her head?
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Jun 17, 2013 15:07
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Holy moly this game looks creepy 
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Jun 17, 2013 15:13
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Lotish posted:From that perspective, all the characters are just abstracted concepts rather than people. It's a good perspective purely in terms of examining archetypes in fiction, but Pierson's right: the art is too loaded with concepts that'll spark up the whole sexism thing again. When I first got word of the whole thing, way after I learned about DC's existence, I was originally much more ambivalent on the art since it felt like such a cop-out for a studio like Vanillaware. Of course, the internet blew up about the issue thanks to Kotaku (and really, both Kotaku and VW had something to answer for since the Kotaku dude wasn't exactly being Mr. Polite with his first article), and the amount of dumb poo poo from both sides of the argument provided plenty of gamers.txt material. The biggest thing I learned from the whole debacle is that sexism is a far more complex issue than most people see it as considering that not even feminists can agree entirely on what is sexist or not, and some dumb video game isn't going to be the end-all battlefield that'll settle the war of the sexes. So yeah, Boobs McMagic is still kinda icky but hey: she was designed off a generic stereotype from a game that defined fantasy stereotypes across generations. I can recognize how poor a representation that is without brandishing a pitchfork and torch because this poo poo runs deeper than we could ever fathom, and maybe one day we can all get past it and enjoy the game for what it's worth. Colour me surprised at how some people don't like exaggerated proportions though. There's a lot of fiction out there that use weirdly-proportioned features, though obviously not as brazen as VW does, and not liking that style kinda blocks off plenty of stuff.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:15
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Ahhpple posted:The art of this game is the only thing that I don't like about it. I'm sure it's going to be fun and I'll play it if I get the chance, but man it's so bland and typical. Some of it is really good, and then some of it is.... well just bad. Like dark corners of deviant art bad, and not for a lack of talent either. I mean fantasy art and animation in general has always taken liberties with body proportions, but you get to a certain point and it isn't titillating, funny, or much of anything besides just ugly. The game looks really good though, I will probably grab it at some point.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:20
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The GIG posted:I'm pretty sure two lovely character designs don't invalidate the rest of this really good sounding game. Agreed, it is valid criticism though. Luminous Obscurity posted:Holy moly this game looks creepy I think this would be a whole lot more creepy if all the characters were underage girls. I'm thankful there's the elf character, otherwise I might have given this a pass.
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Jun 17, 2013 15:34
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Gyoru posted:Capcom's Dungeons & Dragons: Chronicles of Mystara (HD port of Dungeons & Dragons: Tower of Doom + Dungeons & Dragons: Shadow Over Mystara) is due out tomorrow on the trinity: XBLA/PSN/Steam. I made a thread for it, seems like a pretty substantial release considering all the new features and being multiformat. http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=3555139
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Jun 17, 2013 16:17
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toasterwarrior posted:and really, both Kotaku and VW had something to answer for since the Kotaku dude wasn't exactly being Mr. Polite with his first article) These are two of the dumbest things I've ever read on the Internet. First, journalists (even lovely gaming journalists) have no obligation to be "polite" and there's already way too much collusion and rear end-kissing in gaming journalism already. Second, feminists aren't some hive mind like the loving Borg, there are are simply individuals who identify themselves as feminists. So yeah, they tend to have different opinions.
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Jun 17, 2013 17:03
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This game is absolutely beautiful, even more so in motion. Except for the sorceress. I don't even mind the exaggerated proportions, I just think she looks ridiculous with her hyper-bouncy boobs and her retarded little shoes (seriously, LOOK AT THOSE SHOES). Nobody really minds the typical sexy fantasy witch, but this design just shoots straight past "affectionate parody" and enters "cringe-worthy caricature" territory. First and foremost, her design is just bad. I don't mind the amazon, though. She's got that feral barbarian look. Could do without the stupid butt-wiggling animation, tho. ...seriously, this doesn't even seem worth all the commotion it caused. EDIT: Wait, feminists are people who define themselves as feminists...? Shaped like itself, much?
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Jun 17, 2013 17:53
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Torquemadras posted:
Why is this so difficult to grasp? People who identify themselves as any group can vey different mentality within that group.
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Jun 17, 2013 18:01
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I swear to god, if this thread becomes more feminism and game journalism discussion than it already is I'm locking it and maybe never unlocking it. Shut up about that and talk about Vanillaware's game, Dragon's Crown or any of Vanillaware's other games. Not about how Kotaku guy got his feelings hurt or how much you think feminists differ on their opinions of sexism.
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Jun 17, 2013 18:07
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DrNutt posted:These are two of the dumbest things I've ever read on the Internet. First, journalists (even lovely gaming journalists) have no obligation to be "polite" and there's already way too much collusion and rear end-kissing in gaming journalism already. Sorry if I led you to think that just because feminists aren't of one mind means that people taking offense to this game's art are being melodramatic or whatever, because that's not what I meant. There were people in other threads that didn't mind the art at all, and I wouldn't call them out on being sexist or whatever because that's a real heavy thing to accuse someone of; to me, it simply means that it didn't affect them to the degree that I was. I entertain the likely possibility that they could be more even better people than I am at truly being egalitarian, and that's why I decided to soften my stance on the whole thing because seriously, what do I know? It's still something to be criticized, but it doesn't feel right to me to harshly condemn something as sexist when sexism is something I probably won't ever truly understand. But your first point? gently caress no. You would call out gaming journalism as full of bullshit, and then excuse Schreier for straight-up calling an industry professional a 14-year-old boy? Professionalism, and more importantly not being a click-baiting shitheel, is a two-way street. It's good that Schreier and Kamitani apologized to each other like professionals and shifted the focus to the real matter at hand, but both Kamitani's first reply and Schreier's first article were poorly loving thought-out, and only Kamitani has the debatedly questionable excuse of not being fluent at English. ^^^: gently caress, sorry Ferguson. This is the last from me, you have my word on that. Took too drat long to word this reply. toasterwarrior fucked around with this message at 18:09 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 18:07
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I'm also on the fence about picking this up. The gameplay looks solid, but the art style kills it for me. I had the same dilemma about Dust: An Elysian Tail, where the gameplay looked amazing but the aesthetics looked like a low quality deviant art project. If I knew other people who were going to pick this up that might be enough to convince me.
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Jun 17, 2013 18:15
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All I meant was this it's okay for people who self-identify as feminists (or don't, for that matter) to disagree about what sexism is/isn't because it means that they're thinking/talking about it. So in the case of Dragon's Crown, I'm not giving those awful character designs a pass because I guess a couple feminists don't think its sexist or whatever. And calling anyone who designed the Sorceress and the Amazon a 14-year old boy is being exceedingly generous, and being an "industry veteran" isn't a legitimate defense against piss-poor decisions. There's a lot to be said about drawing inspiration from Franzetta, Vallejo, and exaggerating it, and where that love for those old styles come from, but it doesn't even look self-aware in context. It's utterly tasteless. V I wasn't defining feminism you goof, I was saying that people who identify as feminists can have different opinions about what sexism is. Because contrary to popular belief, there's no secret feminist club where you get brainwashed into believing some sort of rigid feminist dogma. V Professor Beetus fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Jun 17, 2013 |
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Jun 17, 2013 18:17
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Mordaedil posted:Why is this so difficult to grasp? It's just not a helpful definition at all because it uses its own definition... Hence: It is shaped, Sir, like itself, and it is as broad as it hath breadth... In any case - looking through the character videos now, I didn't even see them before. After seeing some of the characters in action, I think I'm gonna go with the Dwarf at first! Chucking people around should be entertaining as hell. Also, the Dwarf's riding animation looks silly.
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Jun 17, 2013 18:17
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year199X posted:I'm also on the fence about picking this up. The gameplay looks solid, but the art style kills it for me. I had the same dilemma about Dust: An Elysian Tail, where the gameplay looked amazing but the aesthetics looked like a low quality deviant art project. I always thought that Dust looked fine until they zoomed in the portraits for dialogue scenes, and then it looked real DeviantArt terrible. Beautiful game outside of that though. I remember that from all of Vanillaware's games, only Grim Grimoire had the close-up portraits when people were talking, and those looked real good. VW has the advantage of being a full-fledged studio though, and they stopped doing it for the rest of their games onward because I imagine it must've been a lot of work and money to make them look nice.
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Jun 17, 2013 18:20
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Crazy tits and all aside, I just hope the game is fun, even if it breaks down into four player deathmatches over who gets to keep the loot. I wanna grab the D&D fighter on Steam when it goes up too, even though I will suck completely at it. I can blast thru golden axe no problem but that D&D game is a totally different animal.
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Jun 17, 2013 18:21
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Has vanillaware made anything other then the games in the OP?Oxxidation posted:You know that somebody else can just make a new one if you decide to pitch a fit and flip the OFF switch, right Why would you do that?
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Jun 17, 2013 18:23
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Sex_Ferguson posted:I swear to god, if this thread becomes more feminism and game journalism discussion than it already is I'm locking it and maybe never unlocking it. Shut up about that and talk about Vanillaware's game, Dragon's Crown or any of Vanillaware's other games. Not about how Kotaku guy got his feelings hurt or how much you think feminists differ on their opinions of sexism. You know that somebody else can just make a new one if you decide to pitch a fit and flip the OFF switch, right
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Jun 17, 2013 18:24
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Oxxidation posted:You know that somebody else can just make a new one if you decide to pitch a fit and flip the OFF switch, right "I decided to make an OP about a game that's gotten some press for its absurdly sexist character designs, but god dammit if anyone talks about that I'm gonna close the thread!"
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Jun 17, 2013 18:26
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