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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Yeah but does the other adult in your house get to do this too or is it just you? Who wipes crumbs off the counter and puts doctor appointments on the calendar? Are there things you're assuming your partner does because they like it or are "better at it," that you don't bother with because you feel you only have to do chores when they're fun? No, she definitely gets to do this too. She isn't a forums member, so you'll have to take my word for it, but we're quite open that tasks we consider to be unfulfilling should be outsourced, and the division of household responsibilities is always open to adjustment. Fortunately, I am married to a very strong, independent professional who has no qualms about being open and honest about labor she enjoys (and considers leisure) and "work" she thinks would be better done by others.
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May 1, 2017 18:28
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:[marginal utility]
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May 1, 2017 18:31
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:No, she definitely gets to do this too. She isn't a forums member, so you'll have to take my word for it, but we're quite open that tasks we consider to be unfulfilling should be outsourced, and the division of household responsibilities is always open to adjustment. Fortunately, I am married to a very strong, independent professional who has no qualms about being open and honest about labor she enjoys (and considers leisure) and "work" she thinks would be better done by others. You're richer than me then, good luck to you. FWIW I think I lean more towards Twerk from Home's philosophy. A moderate amount of manual labor is good for your brain, not just as a distraction from more complex mental tasks, but I think small amounts of manageable frustration can inoculate you against bigger stressors. People who never lift a finger for themselves have no ability to handle stress, kind of like how kids raised in ultra-sterile homes seem to get worse allergies.
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May 1, 2017 18:33
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:You're richer than me then, good luck to you. Counterpoint, I don't think anything inoculates you against manageable frustration like more time for leisure, and our ability to purchase labor to buy more leisure is as a direct result of our having lifted all ten fingers and toes for 60-80 hours a week each at work. 
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May 1, 2017 18:38
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3 years ago I embarked on an ambitious project to do 800 sq ft of tiling in my house. I did it all myself, and saved about $2,000 doing so. But I also traded a bunch of weekends, evenings, and missed some opportunities to do other interesting things because I was laying stupid tile in my stupid house. Because I was slow and bad and had to do a lot of rework, it took wayyyy longer than if I would have hired a crew (they'd be done in two days, max) I made a bunch of mistakes along the way, but now I'm actually pretty good at tiling. I did a small project in my parents' house after I was done, and it turned out fantastic. Was it worth it? No. Not at all. If I had the money, I would have hired a crew. But I couldn't afford to, so it was "do it myself, or not at all". Now that I'm good at it and bought a bunch of tools to support it, the cost delta between DIY and hiring someone is smaller which means I'm going to be stuck doing it myself for the rest of my life 
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May 1, 2017 18:46
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what a terrible derail I spent $400 on prescription glasses, having bad vision is supremely BWM. I might give goon-darling zenni optical a shot but I'm not sure how I feel about a mega discount online prescription glasses store...
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May 1, 2017 18:48
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Counterpoint, I don't think anything inoculates you against manageable frustration like more time for leisure, and our ability to purchase labor to buy more leisure is as a direct result of our having lifted all ten fingers and toes for 60-80 hours a week each at work. Oh sorry that came off pointed at you and I didn't mean it to be. But duuuuuude please don't do that thing, your rich rear end does not work harder or longer than somebody poor. I regularly worked hundred-hour weeks for years and I still have to do my own laundry. Don't be that guy. You think of yourself as a good person, be one. Don't do this. KingSlime posted:what a terrible derail The value of money vs. time is not a derail at all, certainly no moreso than your shopping plans.
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May 1, 2017 18:47
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh sorry that came off pointed at you and I didn't mean it to be. But duuuuuude please don't do that thing, your rich rear end does not work harder or longer than somebody poor. I regularly worked hundred-hour weeks for years and I still have to do my own laundry. Don't be that guy. You think of yourself as a good person, be one. Don't do this.
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May 1, 2017 18:50
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:But duuuuuude please don't do that thing, your rich rear end does not work harder or longer than somebody poor. I think an individual's time is worth what the market is willing to compensate them for using it i.e. wages. Without getting nasty, someone on higher wages than me has time worth more to the market than mine, which is a logical and acceptable conclusion of labor markets. Treading a careful path here, because I believe that this holds true often despite no virtue of my own i.e. as agreed with TB I'm not working harder or longer, merely at higher value, and that value isn't inherent to who I am, i.e. I'm not compensated like this because I'm a "good person" as noted in prior post, I have merely been extraordinarily fortunate throughout my life to be given opportunities to make decisions that led to the value of my time being very high to the market in this, TYOOL 2017. EAT FASTER!!!!!! fucked around with this message at 18:56 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 18:52
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh sorry that came off pointed at you and I didn't mean it to be. But duuuuuude please don't do that thing, your rich rear end does not work harder or longer than somebody poor. I regularly worked hundred-hour weeks for years and I still have to do my own laundry. Don't be that guy. You think of yourself as a good person, be one. Don't do this. Think dude and his wife are both doctors so they at least actually did real hard and long work during residency unlike most of the people in here who work means sitting in front of a computer. Pretty sure that's who he's comparing himself to, not poor folks.
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May 1, 2017 18:55
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What is the difference between a man and a parasite? A man builds. A parasite asks 'Where is my share?' A man creates. A parasite says, 'What will the neighbors think?' A man invents. A parasite says, 'Watch out, or you might tread on the toes of God.' BWM, being 50k in debt, having expenses plus debts that exceed your net income, and planning to go back to school in two years on top of it. https://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/68mdsf/30_and_almost_50k_in_debt/ quote:Sorry if this sounds very repetitive to other posts, but I know this community is great, so I am hoping to get some advice. Nail Rat fucked around with this message at 18:59 on May 1, 2017 |
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May 1, 2017 18:56
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I think an individual's time is worth what the market is willing to compensate them for using it i.e. wages. Without getting nasty, someone on higher wages than me has time worth more to the market than mine, which is a logical and acceptable conclusion of labor markets. Oh my loving god, guy. You have gotten nasty. You are nasty. Repulsive, even. So unemployed people's time is completely worthless, then? Should we even suffer them to live?
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May 1, 2017 18:59
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KingSlime posted:what a terrible derail Costco optical is the way to go. If you look closely online you can find a bunch of optometrists bitching about how they can't lie to customers about Costco glasses being of inferior quality and frustrated about losing their exorbitant markups to the big box.
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May 1, 2017 18:59
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:Costco optical is the way to go. If you look closely online you can find a bunch of optometrists bitching about how they can't lie to customers about Costco glasses being of inferior quality and frustrated about losing their exorbitant markups to the big box. That or just get LASIK, I think mine has paid for itself with the cost of glasses/contacts/hassle in not being able to see when I get out of bed or accidentally fell asleep with my contacts in.
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May 1, 2017 19:05
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh my loving god, guy. You have gotten nasty. You are nasty. Repulsive, even.  this is what i meant by derail and you know it
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May 1, 2017 19:08
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The weirdest thing about EAT FASTER's post here is that he is apparently very serious about optimizing marginal utility to support his leisure time, but he someone managed to end up having a baby. Not only do babies destroy any leisure time you have, they actively cost you money to do it. Would you pay someone $50 to wake you up at 3am screaming and then poo poo on you? Because if not, I have bad news about what babies do. Unless you are going to pay someone to raise the baby, I guess. Maybe bring it back in 5-6 years so you can inspect it before sending it to boarding school.
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May 1, 2017 19:10
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monster on a stick posted:That or just get LASIK, I think mine has paid for itself with the cost of glasses/contacts/hassle in not being able to see when I get out of bed or accidentally fell asleep with my contacts in. There are still people (like myself) who can't get LASIK. I totally would if it wasn't so risky for my eye type atm.
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May 1, 2017 19:10
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Ashcans posted:The weirdest thing about EAT FASTER's post here is that he is apparently very serious about optimizing marginal utility to support his leisure time, but he someone managed to end up having a baby. Not only do babies destroy any leisure time you have, they actively cost you money to do it. Would you pay someone $50 to wake you up at 3am screaming and then poo poo on you? Because if not, I have bad news about what babies do. The baby is the weirdest kind of leisure. Like, you can't take drugs to get this kind of weird mix of hormones, pleasure and agony.
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May 1, 2017 19:13
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:What's everyone do for work lunches? Most days I order a bowl of soup which is very often hearty and costs $3.75 and comes with a free cup of coffee but they raised the price to $3.80 this morning so I'm debating the long term sustainability of this idea. Late but I didn't see anyone mention 'lovely frozen lunches' as an option. I find it cheaper than eating out for me so this is what I do when there aren't enough leftovers or if we want to save leftovers for dinner the next day instead. I like to go out for a nice lunch once per week with coworkers so I figure one or two lovely frozen lunches is a decent tradeoff.
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May 1, 2017 19:14
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:So unemployed people's time is completely worthless, then? Should we even suffer them to live? In the same moment, I believe that people who can't find work should have a guaranteed minimum income. Also TB you gotta stop going back and burying the lede after I've responded to your previous posts it's incredibly hard to keep track of what you're accusing me of in any given moment.
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May 1, 2017 19:15
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:In the same moment, I believe that people who can't find work should have a guaranteed minimum income. No idea what you mean by that, the only time I've edited a post in this conversation was to add a response to someone else and avoid a double-post. "Support" of GMI, something I imagine you've devoted precisely none of your precious leisure time to attaining, does nothing to remedy the fact that you appear to think that people who don't earn money are literally worthless? Do you have any inkling how sociopathic that makes you look? Do you believe it is possible for an unemployed person to ever feel that their time has been wasted? And GMI would naturally be lower than your big swinging income, right? So when somebody's leisure time has to go, it'll be the GMI recipient's before yours, of course? Because you're worth more? As a human being? Because of that backbreaking sixty-hour workweek of yours?
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May 1, 2017 19:23
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This isn't D&D.
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May 1, 2017 19:26
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Nail Rat posted:This isn't D&D. Sorry to interrupt lunchchat
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May 1, 2017 19:29
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what would you prefer is used as a variable for leisure game theory tb
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May 1, 2017 19:32
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how do I measure marginal utility gained by adding another name to the ignore list?
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May 1, 2017 19:34
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BraveUlysses posted:how do I measure marginal utility gained by adding another name to the ignore list?
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May 1, 2017 19:35
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Ashcans posted:The weirdest thing about EAT FASTER's post here is that he is apparently very serious about optimizing marginal utility to support his leisure time, but he someone managed to end up having a baby. Not only do babies destroy any leisure time you have, they actively cost you money to do it. Would you pay someone $50 to wake you up at 3am screaming and then poo poo on you? Because if not, I have bad news about what babies do. don't kinkshame
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May 1, 2017 19:38
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Hoodwinker posted:I would run out of posts to read if I put everybody on ignore who has bad opinions on SA. oh i'm not suggesting everyone just the tiny sealion
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May 1, 2017 19:38
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Submarine Sandpaper posted:what would you prefer is used as a variable for leisure game theory tb Trick question, everyone who does math equations to optimize their leisure time will be rounded up into camps. BraveUlysses posted:oh i'm not suggesting everyone just the tiny sealion I bet you say "virtue signalling" a lot.
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May 1, 2017 19:39
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Oh my loving god, guy. You have gotten nasty. You are nasty. Repulsive, even. Tiny Brontosaurus posted:No idea what you mean by that, the only time I've edited a post in this conversation was to add a response to someone else and avoid a double-post. Jesus Christ, I don't know you but you are seriously unhinged. Is this a posting gimmick that I've missed up until now and I'm just falling for a troll? Basic economics, so nasty and repulsive. It's like the inverse of people getting mad about pro athletes making millions - they only make that much because they can make someone else that much more. If you can't do anything that produces eight bucks worth of goods or services, your time is worthless to employers. That's not my opinion or some sort of moral statement, it's just reality - but you're the only one who is saying that implies that the person themselves is worthless, you're just doing it by accusing someone else of saying that. You're the only one who has implied that the economic worth of someone's time is analogous to their intrinsic human worth. Nobody else has put forward that argument in this thread. Putting words into other people's mouths and then getting mad about them is kind of ridiculous behavior.
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May 1, 2017 19:41
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Tiny Brontosaurus posted:Trick question, everyone who does math equations to optimize their leisure time will be rounded up into camps.
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May 1, 2017 19:40
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TheQuietWilds posted:Jesus Christ, I don't know you but you are seriously unhinged. Is this a posting gimmick that I've missed up until now and I'm just falling for a troll? Basic economics, so nasty and repulsive. It's like the inverse of people getting mad about pro athletes making millions - they only make that much because they can make someone else that much more. If you can't do anything that produces eight bucks worth of goods or services, your time is worthless to employers. That's not my opinion or some sort of moral statement, it's just reality - but you're the only one who is saying that implies that the person themselves is worthless, you're just doing it by accusing someone else of saying that. You're the only one who has implied that the economic worth of someone's time is analogous to their intrinsic human worth. Nobody else has put forward that argument in this thread. Putting words into other people's mouths and then getting mad about them is kind of ridiculous behavior. You're talking about jobs, Judge Whitey here is talking about leisure time. He's saying how much you're worth at your job is how much you're worth in your entire life. That's loving gross, and I don't think that's something you agree with. I think you're just too lazy/too eager to join in the dogpile to actually read what Eat Faster actually said. Hoodwinker posted:Trap sprung: managing your future income through retirement savings falls into this camp. I'll see you in the gulag, comrade. Joke's on you I don't even have a retirement account.  
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May 1, 2017 19:42
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I found some videos of the toucan on my phone how do I make them into judgy looking gifs?
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May 1, 2017 19:49
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Valuing leisure time at your wage rate is kind of wrong unless you're capable of working as many hours as you want to increase your take home pay. If working an additional hour doesn't give you $X, then your additional hour you're considering using isn't "worth" $X, since you can't choose to spend that hour getting $X. On the other hand, the more you earn, the lower the utility value of $1 is, so it's not the worst proxy for the real question, which is whether you'd gain more utility out of an hour of free time or the cost of whatever service or item you're purchasing. I don't think EAT FASTER is saying anything about using someone's value to an employer as a proxy for their worth as a person though, just as a proxy for the marginal value of a dollar to them.
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May 1, 2017 19:50
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Steampunk Hitler posted:I don't think EAT FASTER is saying anything about using someone's value to an employer as a proxy for their worth as a person though, just as a proxy for the marginal value of a dollar to them.
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May 1, 2017 19:51
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Steampunk Hitler posted:Valuing leisure time at your wage rate is kind of wrong unless you're capable of working as many hours as you want to increase your take home pay. If working an additional hour doesn't give you $X, then your additional hour you're considering using isn't "worth" $X, since you can't choose to spend that hour getting $X. On the other hand, the more you earn, the lower the utility value of $1 is, so it's not the worst proxy for the real question, which is whether you'd gain more utility out of an hour of free time or the cost of whatever service or item you're purchasing. I disagree with your last part, since he literally said: EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:I think an individual's time is worth what the market is willing to compensate them for using it i.e. wages. But I think throwing wages into the mix is the wrong tack anyway. Leisure time is a resource. The less you have of it the more it's worth. Eat Faster works 60 hours a week, so his remaining 108 hours of leisure are worth less than the 68 hours a person who works 100 hours a week has. Only the 100-hour worker likely doesn't earn anywhere near as much money as Eat Faster does, so they don't have the option of buying themselves more leisure time the way he was patting himself on the back for doing. He wins coming and going, and he still has the gall to look down on people about it.
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May 1, 2017 19:54
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I just wanted to say good job to whoever bought John Smith's new red text. Okay resume your regularly scheduled derailing
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May 1, 2017 19:56
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It's not as though I believe that the sum total of an individual's human worth is the integral of the monetary value of their time. That plainly misrepresents my comments and the nature of this discussion.
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May 1, 2017 20:08
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EAT FASTER!!!!!! posted:It's not as though I believe that the sum total of an individual's human worth is the integral of the monetary value of their time. That plainly misrepresents my comments and the nature of this discussion. You said you think "an individual's time is worth what the market is willing to compensate them for using it i.e. wages." That is a lovely thing to think, and I disagree with it. Poor people's time is in fact more valuable than yours, because it is scarcer. Trying to use dollars to measure qualitative things about life doesn't actually work, and you should stop doing it.
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May 1, 2017 20:10
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holy poo poo just close the thread already
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May 1, 2017 20:18
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