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Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc
You all need to shut the gently caress up and start posting stories about people who are bad with money. This thread turned into a dickwaving contest about who can be more frugal and that's basically what the entire rest of BFC is for. This thread specifically is for stories about people who are bad with money. So shut up about peacoats and consumer psychology.

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Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

spwrozek posted:

I would say going pay check to paycheck working 2 jobs to get by to having $10k is pretty life changing.

Is it? You'll still be working two jobs. If you spend more than you make you'll eventually run through that 10k and end up where you started. If you spend exactly as much as you make 10k is a really nice buffer but you still aren't getting ahead, not exactly life changing. The real way to change your life is to increase your earning power and to some extent decreasing your spending. A one time smallish cash infusion is at best a good buffer to keep you from spiraling into debt, at worst it simply delays the inevitable.

It really takes a big sum to become "life changing" I'd say. $100,000, a million even, isn't going to last as long as it needs to if you want to retire.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Cicero posted:

FI enthusiasts generally assume a safe withdrawal rate is 4% (safe meaning you can withdraw this much in perpetuity even after accounting for inflation), so a million dollars means you get a free 40k income forever. You may indeed be able to retire on that in a cheap cost of living area, especially now that we have Obamacare subsidies.

Of course that assumes said million is post-tax.

edit: thanks, Obama!

I concede the point, so long as you live within your means and manage your money well. Most people think of a million-dollar lifestyle when they think of that much money, not a $40k lifestyle. Even that takes shrewd investment and discipline. The number of "great business opportunities" and conman "investment advisors" that come out of the woodwork when they smell money is staggering.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Nocheez posted:

You can get a cross-fit style workout without the price tag. My friend got 2 tractor tires for free from the local Wingfoot dealer. One is 238 lbs, the other is almost 500. We flip them, do farmer walks, smack them with sledge hammers, and do box jumps. If it's raining, we go to the gym down the road, where paying for a whole year upfront is only $250.

I just can't imagine spending over $100/month on a gym membership. It blows my mind the same way that others see spending more than $250/month on food, or buying a new car.

As much fun as it must be to hoot and holler at some ole tires while smashin em good with a hammer, the reality is that us city folk don't have access or space for that.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Folly posted:

This is layered bullshit. That person was not actually giving advice. She was, in fact, bragging about how hard she wants you to think she works. At the same time, she is convincing herself that they money she's spending to be lazy is worth it. She probably highlights every drat word in her casebook. She'll be padding her hours soon enough.


Content: I know a family who bought annual passes to Disney. This wasn't a bad decision per se, because they were there often enough that the annual passes were the better deal. I'd say about 4 or 5 trips each year, with at least one week long vacation. Here's the bad with money part: they live more than a day's (~24h) drive from Disney. Also, I'm pretty sure they get one of the pricier meal plans. I have a co-worker who's the same way. All I hear him talking about over the walls of our cube farm is his last Disney trip or his next one

What is it with Disney? I know my kid wants to go, and I've taken him once. I'll probably even do it a couple more times. So I know Disney has a hook in me because they've marketed it so well that, as a parent, I feel that this is one of those experiences I should provide for my kids or they'll feel left out. But I don't understand the attitude of shoving more hooks in your mouth while telling yourself the bait tastes delicious.

Edit: Don't change from a singular subject to a plural subject after you make the post. You'll keep missing verbs and sound like an idiot.

This is not "bad with money" so much as "people spending money in ways I don't think they should be". Some people really like Disney, unless you can show that they are missing mortgage payments to pay for those passes you really have no place to talk.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Folly posted:

Well, he was maxing out his student loans at the time. Is that good enough?

But really, you don't think that somewhere around $5-10k a year at Disney (my estimate based on travel and lodging) is excessive enough to be bad?

Edit: Woops, my drive time estimate is off. It's more like 16 hours from where he lived. That's a big difference. Sorry, I was remembering my last drive to Miami and adding a couple of hours to that to deal with kids.

It's still really small-minded and petty. It's just people who aren't you spending their money in ways that you wouldn't. It isn't a problem with them (they're saving money with the annual pass for god's sake). The fact that other people's value judgements can be valid is something you'll have to learn eventually.

For real "bad with money", just look back in this thread for the guy with 10 maxed out credit cards, a bunch of poo poo from a rent to own store at 300% cost, and a fixed income. That's the real poo poo, that's what makes this thread good.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Paiz posted:

Here's an idiot on Reddit. Dude moves, applies to a new job and quits his current job without waiting to get offer from the place he applied to. Of course it ends badly.

http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/25k0tq/in_a_bad_spot/

If this stupid motherfucker has $60 in his bank account, how was he planning on surviving the two weeks+ until the first paycheck at the job he assumed he would get?

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

moana posted:

America.txt.. people work themselves to the bone to eat chicken parm at Olive Garden and takeout for lunch every day and complain about their credit card debt.

If you have to spend shitloads of money to experience what life has to offer you're probably doing it wrong. Being financially responsible for creatures whose lives depend on you - that's a disturbing opinion? Come on, now..

You are attacking an argument no one made.

He said that life is not about who can make their bank account grow faster. He is absolutely right. What is the point of "working yourself to the bone" if you only have bank statements to show for it? There is a trend in this thread to call any expenditure of money "bad with money" if it isn't 1. necessary to live or 2. something that the poster would do with their own money.

The only problem is spending beyond your means, not specifically dogs or shoes or new cars. If someone has positive cash flow you really have no right to call them bad with money for spending on magic cards or vintage cabbage patch kids or whatever.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

a worthy uhh posted:

You sure don't like God and blah blah blah.





But back onto the topic of bad with money,

I've never leased before, but "Take whatever the dealer's offering to turn the car in early" sounds wrong. He thinks the dealer will give him money to return his lease early? That can't be right.
I applaud him for saving $13k on a $25k salary, but drat he really needs to forget that new cars even exist, they aren't an option for him. He can get a solid used car for $5k. Saves on insurance too.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

EugeneJ posted:

I have obscenely low mileage and my car has higher Blue Book value than the end-of-lease buyout. There's equity there.

If you get to the end of the lease and pay the residual, yes. But on a quick search, the dealership is going to assess a penalty for breaking the lease early. You should probably look at the text of your contract before you go any further down that road.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Butt Wizard posted:

Unless there's something unique or interesting about the car you're after, I'm not sure why anyone would buy anything other than a Corolla or whatever is the cheapest thing to run/most reliable thing you can get hold of in your area.

This is something a child would say. Like asking why anyone would eat anything but pizza, because pizza tastes so good.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

No Wave posted:

Pizza makes you fat. Owning the minimum viable product car makes you lean and mean. This is a bad analogy, in that what is silly and unhealthy about the pizza statement does not transfer at all to the car statement.

Ok....the point is that, like a child, he doesn't understand the wide variety of reasons that people buy cars, and because he doesn't understand it, implies that the only acceptable car is a Corolla.

Unless of course you are genuinely " not sure why anyone would buy anything other than a Corolla". If that's the case I can explain it for you in a later post. Just let me know.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Jeffrey posted:

There is precedent in Cyprus, I'm sure some guy who took his money out the week before feels awfully vindicated. Granted it'd take a lot greater of a crisis for it to happen in the US, but :shrug:.

The population of just California is 33 times more than the entire population of cyprus. The two are not comparable at all.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Stealthgerbil posted:

I had a credit card and I owed money on it and never paid because I was a dumb 18 year old. It was like $800 max and when I went to check my credit report to figure out what was going on, I didn't see it on there. Just my usual bills. It has been like 7 years since then. I am bad and dumb but I wanted to pay it and fix that but I cant even figure out who has the loan since it went to collections and its not on there.

If it isn't on your credit report, then pretend it never existed. Whoever held the debt has long since written it off or sold it to debt collectors, trying to dig it up now could only hurt your credit score.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Jastiger posted:

I would literally have triple the savings and probably have positive equity into a house if not for student loans. They account for over half of our monthly expenses and something like 80% of our total debt.

gently caress student loans.

Would you have your job (or whatever prospective career) without your degree though?

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

LogisticEarth posted:

While obviously it gets misinterpreted, overtime does end up getting taxed at the earner's top marginal rate. So as you work more overtime, your hourly compensation goes down due to taxation. Of course, it will never go negative, which is what some people think. "I got kicked into a higher tax bracket! :bahgawd:

But when you get paid time and a half for overtime, your take home pay won't always be 150% of your normal wage. This is even more important to keep in mind when you get paid straight-time overtime. In that case you can easily end up with less pay per hour worked.

So there is a grain of truth to the idea of an OT "sweet spot".

I see what you're saying but this is a really stupid way to look at it. You will never ever take home less money by working more. Period. Putting it in terms of hourly wages just muddies the issue. Talking about 1x pay overtime confuses things even more because that doesn't exist in the US, that's just called regular work hours.

People are very very stupid when it comes to money and taxes so its worth it to be very clear and not bring up a technicality like that. The important thing is take home pay, which can only increase when you work more (barring a few edge cases)

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

LogisticEarth posted:

For what it's worth, gold has been hovering around 1300 for a while since coming back up off it's lows in January. Still. Dumping your entire 401k into it? I mean even gold bugs like Peter Schiff and Mark Farber still only recommend like 10-20% of your portfolio in precious metals. :laffo:

Edit: Also, I am bad with money as I'm posting from the veterinarians office where we have so far spent like $3,000 over the last month on our cat's pancreatitis/diabetes problems. :smith:

True gold bugs recommend holding 100% physical gold and silver.

There is a guy on the Fatwallet forums who made a huge bet on gold a few years ago. The original post explains it better than I can:

quote:

Nov. 7, 2010 @ 9:45p

On the news of QE2 last Wednesday I couldn't control myself any longer and snapped. I used all my credit cards from 6 years of AORs and bought 140k in Gold rounds and 240k in Silver rounds at an average borrowing cost of 19.6% interest representing 80% of my available credit. I paid about 4.4% premium over spot. I'm planning 4-6 high-rolling trips to Vegas while I service the debt for the next 18 months. At which time I plan cashing out a millionaire or being "broke" and visiting a bankruptcy judge. I foresee and expect some serious AA, but I will manage to stay current with no late payments for at least 18 months - at which time I will be rich or stop 100% of my debt service.

What could go wrong with my plan?

AU - $1448 per TO - 100 Units

AG - 27.20 per TO - 8600 Units - about 600 lbs.

Spoiler: gold and silver dropped a lot, PLUS his "gambling losses" cover story turned out to be a little too real:

quote:

Mar. 14, 2013 @ 12:13p

Major update: The guns were sold at just above cost and the money was used to pay off the December purchases. As you might expect, my gambling problem has resulted in multiple major busts. This entire saga was a mistake from the beginning and will result in a complete loss of my ability to secure credit for the foreseeable future. While my net worth is extremely negative at the moment, I look forward to cleaning the slate for a fresh start by mid-summer. I wish to thank those who supported me and scorn those with ill will. Large rewards require large risks. And this one just did not pay off.. Recognizing my addiction to risk has been a major breakthrough at GA and I now understand that this board feeds that addiction.

http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1041394/?start=800

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

enraged_camel posted:

Speaking of LA, one of my college friends moved there last year from NY. He and his girlfriend got a really nice one bedroom house right on the hills overlooking Dodger Stadium. A year later they broke up when he found out that she was cheating on him with a celebrity. So he kicked her out, but instead of moving out himself, he decided to keep living there and just pay the $1650/mo rent by himself.

Keep in mind that this guy is no Slow Motion. He is an aspiring actor. As in, he doesn't have a full-time job. He goes from one temp gig to another, doing various odd jobs six, sometimes seven days a week. He confided in me that he has to borrow money from relatives often to make ends meet (none of whom are wealthy themselves), and every now and then he has to AirBnB his place and crash at his neighbors' couch. I told him multiple times that he needs to move out and find a place that's as cheap as possible, but he keeps saying that the house is so amazing he just wants to hang on to it (pretty sure it's so that he can bang chicks more easily).

Fortunately, he kinda sorta came to his senses about a month ago and realized he may need to give up on his acting aspirations and get a full-time office job somewhere and build a career like most other people. It remains to be seen however whether he will stick to it. Either way, he's 31 years old, has zero savings and probably some CC debt. He does know a ton of people though, so maybe that will help.

yeah yeah great stuff, which celebrity?

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

NancyPants posted:

A u-lock can be defeated in 10 seconds with a thin piece of aluminum like from a pop can. You jam it into the key hole just right and it pops right open.

That sounds like way easier said than done.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Weatherman posted:

Wait wait wait. You mean ignition locks as in "insert the key and turn to unlock the steering wheel and start the car"? And cars didn't have them in the 90s? What a strange country you live in.

My parents's car from 1979 and every single car I've ever seen, let alone driven, since then has had either a mechanical or electronic ignition lock. How the hell do you keep the car secure otherwise?

My late 90s accord was stolen by putting a flathead screwdriver in the key slot and turning.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

ReverendCode posted:

I will sell you a bullet proof vest for $1 million. It is for safety, so the price is irrelevant, even if you probably will never need the vest.

I would buy a $1 million bullet proof vest if I was in the middle of a firefight in Iraq. Are you telling me that in the same situation an OSHA actuary would turn it down because his disability-adjusted life-years remaining are too low to justify the cost? Please.

"A life" has some dollar value associated with it on paper as it regards product liability and health care costs etc. "Your life", on the other hand, has infinite value to you, objectively. You would have to be an idiot to mix the two up.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Radbot posted:

This is a fun thread, people just saying "this is bullshit" without any numbers or data to back it up. BFC!

If major universities are fudging placement numbers, its practically guaranteed that an extremely expensive non-degree course is fudging even more.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

pathetic little tramp posted:

So I checked my checking account and when I expected to see around 2500 I saw around 760,000! I know it was a mistake. But I transferred 20,000 to an external account that isnt the same institution. If they fix the error but don't do anything about the 20,000, am I ok?

Edit location? Usa...

You figure they'll just shrug their shoulders at a missing $20,000? No. They'll call the cops on you if you refuse to give it back, too.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Dr. Eldarion posted:

Depending on the city hall, it's possibly waaaay nicer than any other typical wedding venue. Here's San Francisco's:



$76!

You know its going to be full of people the entire time though right? They don't serve the same purpose at all.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc
yeah gently caress that guy for getting a discount (?)

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

moana posted:

Apart from houses, those are the two biggest financial mistakes people make in their lives. It's pretty easy to see why they show up so often in this thread. Or maybe you have a better story for us?

Bad with money: we went out to a fancy pants dinner the other night. Sitting next to us was another couple. The girl was on her phone the entire time, didn't even look up at the guy from texting/FBing/whatever. Their meals came, and he pulled out his phone, they both took pictures of their food, then they stayed on their respective phones for the rest of the meal. How do you take someone out to a nice restaurant and not want to speak to them? I swear they said maybe two sentences to each other for the whole time we were there. It was the saddest date I've ever seen :(

You really don't know anything about these people. What if they were a deaf couple and texting is faster than signing? Or one of them is a singer and needs to save their voice between gigs? Or any number of other possibilities that you crotchety judgmental types never consider. God forbid that other people have a private dinner in a way that you don't approve of.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Guinness posted:

/r/personalfinance delivers again:


And some of his further comments are just gold, shiat loads of gold:





gently caress you guys, it's not debt, it's leverage, you retarded plebes just don't understand.

I want to murder this person. It was bad enough that he said "shiat" six times, then he said "vaca" and I started seeing red. This loving moron makes $100k a year. gently caress me. Life is really unfair.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Zo posted:

That's also irrelevant since football programs are generally revenue net-positive (sometimes massively so).

I don't think that's really true outside of the best teams.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

melon cat posted:

Yeah, that's all AMEX really is- an illusion of exclusivity with fancy packaging. High-end, difficult-to-get credit cards do exist, but they don't openly market them. And they sure as hell won't hawk them at your local department store/Costco like AMEX does.

And to top it off, most retailers won't accept AMEX because they charge a stupidly-high merchant fee compared to the other credit card providers.

Another lesson I've learned while managing client accounts (which involved mortgage applications): when someone says they make "about" $x, there's a very high likelihood that they're lying. "About $50,000" is more like $40,000 before tax. But for some reason they include their benefits, perks, and other imaginary numbers with their salary "calculation".

You really hate AMEX huh? I like AMEX (ones issued by amex, not just any card with the amex logo) for a few reasons. They have plenty of no-fee cards these days, with average rewards. I don't revolve so APR doesn't matter to me. But the big thing for me is that AMEX has insanely good customer service, and they have a reputation of nearly always siding with the consumer in chargeback situations. I have better rewards cards for everyday purchases, but I use my amex for stuff that looks a little shady. The high merchant fees mean nothing to me, since I don't pay them.

Also, for people concerned with their credit score, Amex is the only company that backdates new cards, so if you got your first amex in 1988, you can get another one today and it will show up on your credit report as being open since 1988, giving you a big boost to your average age of accounts.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Switchback posted:

This morning my boyfriend talked about bitcoin, and how he wants to get a wallet and how he could have made soooo much money if he'd got in like two months ago.


Does this mean we need to break up now?

Probably, because even a regular-level idiot would check and see that bitcoin is down almost 17% from two months ago.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Rurutia posted:

If you read the thread, nebby generally backs his poo poo up. I know people don't often agree with him, but he's one of the last people here I'd accuse of that.

I don't know enough to argue the truth or falsity of his basic premise, but his logic is wrong. He claims that asset-class diversification is not good enough, and you should instead diversify along some other means. Then he says the market is too unpredictable to do that, so you should just "make your guesses". That's just silly. If simple diversification isn't perfect, and the alternative method is impossible to realize, that doesn't mean you give up on diversification as a strategy! It means you use the most proven, most practicable method available to you, i.e buying the market. Sounds to me like a very wordy self-justification for someone who has invested their ego and time in being "the stock picking guy".

Edit: the other thing is that his advice (to the extent that it is correct) can only apply to people who are really really in to investing. 99% of the population does not have the time to do enough research to understand his post, let alone implement his strategy. Simple diversification gets 95% of the value for 99% of people, and it can be accomplished in about 10 minutes, one time.

Magic Underwear fucked around with this message at 23:21 on Nov 29, 2014

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc
I really wish this thread would get back to people we can all agree are bad with money. This is boring and petty, let's talk about this guy who hasn't paid his car payment since September, or was it August? Or his insurance, or his phone.

http://www.reddit.com/r/personalfinance/comments/2o4v5u/about_to_lose_my_car_due_to_bad_luck_and_poor/

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

Really? You sure about that? It would have to be a 20% improvement in fuel economy to cover the price spread, and I sincerely don't believe that modern engines lose 20% efficiency with the wrong octane grade gasoline put in them

Premium costs 20% more where you are? Where I am it is 20 cents a gallon more, well under 10% even with the huge crash in gas prices.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

I get what you're implying but not everybody that happens to be in the same car as a joint is a drug dealer and the fact that you're just assuming the guy is lying is precisely the problem with civil forfeiture

No, but in the same car as weed AND 20k cash is extremely suspicious. Plus he won't even give any alternate explanation for the money. I think he should have a chance to get his money back but this is exactly the thing civil forfeiture was made for, before it was abused by greedy pigs.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

pig slut lisa posted:

Found in I am 15 and live as the 1% (wealthy) in America, AMA:



40s single parent living paycheck to paycheck but dropping probably $1,500+ annually on gaming when you factor in his likely software purchases :smith:

That's a real stretch. Poor people are allowed to have hobbies and it sounds like he upgrades rarely. I'm more mad at the kid getting an A6 at age 15.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

melon cat posted:

But the thing is, he didn't just take third-hand investing "advice". He invested in Radioshack. Of all of the companies to make braindead investment decisions on.

Radioshack. The same company whose stock has been in the toilet for over 5 years, and who has been a running joke in the retail world for even longer than that.

But dude, "Zimmerman's Litespeed Management LLC disclosed an 8.1% in RadioShack", whatever that means. It was sure to explode into the stratosphere. It's just too bad that he was in that part of Africa with zero phone or internet access for a month straight.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Krispy Kareem posted:

I was trying to figure that out. Even if his money is bound into non-liquid corporate shares, wouldn't that still count as assets in a bankruptcy court? Or maybe he has all his millions in non-revocable trusts.

Rich people are allowed to cheat at these kinds of things. I have no doubt his lawyers will produce a document proving beyond a doubt that Curtis Jackson had to eat chinese food from a trashcan just to get the energy to walk the 12 miles to the courtroom that day.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

BloodBag posted:

What kind of priveliged life do you have to lead to think that 35 hours a week is backbreaking? JFC

Maybe he's referring to the nature of the work and not the quantity. 35 hours a week of non-stop ditch digging would qualify as back breaking, for example.

Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Dillbag posted:

So all you needed to save a few hundred dollars a year was a lovely addiction to over the counter stimulants? Goddamn, sign me up!

He clearly already had that addiction. What are you, chairman of the Christian Temperance Union?

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Magic Underwear
May 14, 2003


Young Orc

Nail Rat posted:

I pay for spotify premium, but we also are putting over $3100 into tax-advantaged accounts each month, so whatever

Don't do this. Driveby humblebragging is the fastest way to make this thread really lovely.

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