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Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Admiral101 posted:

Tuition credits don't work like that. They phase out over the course of thousands of dollars of income. Virtually every income tax benefit works like this.

I can't think of any situations where a person will end up with more net cash through income tax savings by forgoing a raise. Maybe at the state level (just because of how hosed up certain states' codes are) but not at the federal.


The affordable care act subsidies will function like that and have an extreme effect if you make $1 too much (could be $10k in extra cost if you go a dollar over).

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Droo
Jun 25, 2003

I bought my first house with 5% down. I had an 80% conventional loan and a 15% home equity loan, and I didn't have to pay any PMI. The interest rate on the 15% loan was lower, but it was also just a 5 year loan I think. I think this setup is far more common (at least when working with a mortgage broker, which you all should be anyway) than getting a single 95% loan and paying PMI.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Whoever wrote that article really needs a life coach to help them understand how expensive things are supposed to be, apparently. Oh wait then there would be a life coach category.

* $100 per week for a maid
* Parking is somehow never free for these people, despite their $2-$3k per month mortgage
* $3k per year in car insurance
* $600 per month for a single car payment
* $500 per month in gas, implying 3000 miles driven per month
* $1860 per month in food
* $440 per month gas and electric (I live in a 3500 square foot house in Vegas with a pool and I hit $440 like once a year, when the temperature range is 85-118 all month long)

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

nickutz posted:

Are you really going to declare "luck" as the reason someone may have capital to buy an investment property?

Of course it's all luck. Look at slow motion for example - right now he is doing everything in his power to save money and he just can't get ahead. Maybe one day he will be lucky and win the lottery or something, but until then wtf is he supposed to do?

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

I like when people advertise ridiculously stupid things about themselves while trying to make the opposite point - I've been in dozens of accidents I don't see why safety features matter at all!!!!!!!

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Did you call someone out of the blue and ask them who their insurance was? Like your job is cold-calling to sell crappy insurance?

If so, I sure as hell wouldn't tell you anything either.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Why don't you just carry some cash around

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Tigntink posted:

My mother would in a heart beat. She's a alcoholic and bipolar and she believes the lies she tells. It's a great lesson to learn. Don't trust anyone. She took so much money from me growing up. All of my birthday money. A good portion of my actual job money. We haven't talked in years and I get a regular credit report check. She doesn't know my address or anything else associated with me so she can't put credit cards in my name. I've got access to a poo poo load of credit because I have my poo poo together and it scares me that she could gently caress me in an instant.

You can lock your credit with each bureau so she shouldn't be able to screw you. It costs about $10 per bureau to lock and $10 any time you need a temporary unlock.

It's a little annoying if you need something (like a stupid direcTV account for example) and you have to figure out which bureau they pull from and do a temporary unlock, but overall I'm very happy with the setup. Been doing it for about 3 years now for both my wife and myself.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Rudager posted:

When the LVR is like 35% they won't care because either you pay them, or they take the house and sell it and take the money that way, unless the house's value massively tanks there's no way in which they don't win.

Most likely the people writing the loan aren't going to hold onto it for all that long, and they have no interest in repossessing your house. They want to write you a mortgage and sell it off to another agency, which won't buy it if all the documentation is in place (or it's 2007).

Even if for some reason you are getting a mortgage from a bank that intends to hold it forever (you shouldn't be), the actual person approving your loan has no interest in blowing off his personal responsibility and having it come back to bite him in the rear end later. Even if the bank makes money repoing your house it might end up costing him his job if he screws up enough.

Also, when banks have real interest in real estate speculation they don't do it by repossessing deadbeat's houses. Most mortgage people write a loan, take their profit and move on to the next deal. A ridiculous amount of conventional loans end up at Fannie and Freddy in the secondary market.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Rudager posted:

They've got $250k worth of equity in the house though.

How many houses have you bought?

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

There are a lot of people who are overwhelmed about money and have no clue what to do and seem to need someone to hold their hand with it. There are also a lot of people who could benefit from someone with more knowledge of the tax consequences of investing in non-retirement accounts.

It would be like a cross between a flat fee financial adviser and a tax accountant.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

jon joe posted:

But how does he live until then? Does he just ignore the creditors (he's no stranger to doing this), let his score tank, and file bankruptcy again when he's eligible?

He sounds like one of the people that could win the lottery and be flat broke again in 2 years. Nothing you do is going to help or fix him. It's why we have social security and food stamps, and luckily it sounds like he gets an extra $800 a month pension so he'll be fine. You need to focus on yourself and not give him any money, because he will just waste it anyway and you will accomplish nothing.

If he isn't asking for money, then I certainly wouldn't bring it up. If he asks for money just say you are broke and don't have any. If he keeps pushing you, then tell him he is a black hole of wasteful spending, he has proven that he is never going to change, and you need to focus on building your own life instead of bailing on the titanic that is him.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

HonorableTB posted:

I hate the societal pressure to go along with the "I'm broke" party line for poo poo like this. For some reason, it's perfectly okay to let people know you have no money for even a $10 lunch, but it's super bad form to tell people you have $3000 or whatever in an emergency fund. It's like people think you're being high and mighty or that you think you're better than they are because you practice fiscal responsibility :/

I love on TV shows about doctors/lawyers/wall street type people where they have to act like it's impossible for the character to come up with relatively modest sums of money.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

double post

Droo fucked around with this message at 19:26 on Jan 29, 2015

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

pig slut lisa posted:

If that's the case then why did you include the tires, windshield chip, and other maintenance? If you never used the car you wouldn't have incurred those costs either.


Well first of all a lot of maintenance would need to be done anyway (e.g. oil changes, timing belt). Second of all, feel free to quote my post and edit out maintenance to make your own point.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Dessert Rose posted:

You wouldn't have to change the timing belt if you never drove it either. Oil changes, sure, but probably a lot less often.

http://community.cartalk.com/discussion/2291778/change-a-timing-belt-after-many-years-but-few-miles

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

pig slut lisa posted:

I guess it seems silly to me to ignore one of the major operational costs of this thing you choose to own. Like, obviously if you bought a Prius it would cost a different amount than if you bought an Escalade or a Ford Fiesta or whatever. But your model choice would impact how much you actually spend on gas as well.

I would say the relevant inquiry is not "how much does it cost to have this car sitting in my garage" unless it's a collector car. The relevant inquiry is "how much does it cost to own this car and use it the way I do".

I guess I don't understand how you can't understand the basic economics of getting from point A to point B, but I will attempt to explain in painful detail for you.

Say, for example, you own a car. You want to drive that car 20 miles because you want to meet a friend. Your car is already paid for and maintained, and while in theory you are adding some wear and tear, for this trip all it really costs you is a gallon of gasoline, so $2.50.

Say, for example, you DON'T own a car. You want to travel 20 miles because you want to meet a friend. You don't own a car, as established, and you need to get there. What do you do? Do you not go? I guess you could not go, but then you aren't comparing owning a car to not owning a car anymore, you are comparing going places to being a hermit, so that's not fair.

Hmmmmmmmmm what could we do? Well you could take public transportation. In Chicago, that costs $2.25. WOW THAT IS THE SAME PRICE ALMOST AS THE GAS!!!! Maybe we can just ignore gasoline in our analysis, because it seems like it generally approximates public subsidized costs of travelling around the city, which is really the only practical location you can get by without a car in America.

I just don't understand how anyone could not inherently understand this.

PS: As far as some cars getting shittier mileage than other cars - well obviously. But then you aren't comparing the cost of owning a car to not owning a car, you are comparing the cost of owning one type of car vs a different type of car. Which is not what we were doing at all.

Droo fucked around with this message at 20:04 on Jan 29, 2015

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

NancyPants posted:

Ok, so? For this trip, gas and public transit costs were equal.

How would you know that if you didn't look at those costs? Why would you not account for price of fuel or other operating costs?

I would be happy to compare gasoline costs to equivalent public transit costs in order to improve my original analysis. Can you please provide the following expenses for one calendar year, for someone who does not own a car:


1. A detailed log of all trips you made
2. The public transportation costs you incurred for all trips for the year
3. The hypothetical car-mileage total for each trip
4. All hypothetical parking costs you would have incurred at your destination point
5. The total time you spent in public transportation
6. The total time you would have spent driving to those locations
7. The relative value of your time, per hour, to use with items 5 and 6

PM me with the info, I will post an updated comparison.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Dangit Ronpaul posted:

Getting a quantitative apples to apples comparison here is going to be really difficult because you can do other stuff while you're on the bus/train, whereas when you drive you're pretty much stuck staring at the road for the entire time you're in the car.

Hmm I think you are right. Maybe we should just say that it is way too complicated and circumstance-dependent to compare exactly, and we can find some kind of general "hand wavy" way to compare the two costs so that we can do a quick, approximate analysis of car ownership that some people might find interesting?

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

pig slut lisa posted:

The quick approximate analysis of car ownership should include fuel costs, which are the second greatest cost of ownership behind depreciation :ssh:

It's a good thing I was comparing the cost of owning a car versus getting around town without one then.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

roflcopter thief posted:

A guy I know knows a guy who is in almost 50 grand of CC debt. His brilliant plan to clear the debt? Buy silver, specifically 6 oz of silver per month. It's like a mistake within a mistake.

I think Warren Buffett's take on this is the most concise refute of investing in precious metals. Silver specifically is lame because it tarnishes and doesn't stay shiny unless you store it perfectly.

quote:

Today the world’s gold stock is about 170,000 metric tons. If all of this gold were melded together, it would form a cube of about 68 feet per side. (Picture it fitting comfortably within a baseball infield.) At $1,750 per ounce – gold’s price as I write this – its value would be $9.6 trillion. Call this cube pile A.

Let’s now create a pile B costing an equal amount. For that, we could buy all U.S. cropland (400 million acres with output of about $200 billion annually), plus 16 Exxon Mobils (the world’s most profitable company, one earning more than $40 billion annually). After these purchases, we would have about $1 trillion left over for walking-around money (no sense feeling strapped after this buying binge). Can you imagine an investor with $9.6 trillion selecting pile A over pile B?

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Fidelity Billpay used to be too stupid to pay the credit card statement balance, resulting in your only options being the minimum payment or a fixed amount that you type in. For all I know they still have that problem, I stopped using it because of that.

That person should really set up an automatic payment for the minimum, and then they can log in whenever and make an additional manual payment. At least if they forget it would still get paid.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

xie posted:

Unless we move out to the suburbs I'm not sure $300k will get us anything other than a condo.

Having a choice between a $300,000 condo in the city, or a house in the suburbs, seems pretty typical. What other options could there really be at that price?

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Blackjack2000 posted:

No. Can you give me an example of how you tease a personality characteristic out of someone when that person is focusing all of their efforts on being agreeable and likable?

I've only interviewed about a dozen people in person, but I can remember 2 of them having weird personality flaws that would have made them a problem to work with. One of them was just generally creepy without anything funny enough to mention. The other guy proclaimed that he was the best programmer I would ever meet, and I was only lucky enough to be interviewing him because he had to live near the office location (about 45 minutes outside downtown) for some random reason I can't remember.

I certainly wasn't trying to tease any secrets out of them. Lots of people are just really weird and don't try to hide it.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Radbot posted:

Point 1 is negated if you have a Roth 401(k). I don't understand point 2, though I've heard it brought up before. If you're at the point where you're getting a 401(k) loan, you're probably at the point where the additional cost of new loans will cause you to reduce your 401(k) contribution, thus negating point 2, right?

If something happens to your job, you have to immediately pay that money back or declare it all as income, paying a further 10% penalty and income tax on the money. Which you almost certainly don't have except to take even more money out of your 401k. It is much harder to make back the money once you are 50+ in order to achieve your retirement goals.

If you are paying for college with a 401k, it almost certainly means that it is the only money you have left (because if you had non-401k/IRA money, why wouldn't you use that first?). It probably also means that you haven't been maxing your retirement contributions (because if you are, then you can just stop contributing and that is already $18,000+ per parent per year). So, based on those two assumptions, people assume you basically can't afford to do it if you have to do it.

I also think that the average 18 year old will make smarter decisions about what to major in, how much binge drinking to do etc, when they see the student loans piling up. A lot of parents want to pay for college for their kids without really communicating exactly what it is costing them to do so to the kid.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Mantle posted:

This is a strawman because the rent savings is so minuscule compared to the other costs of home ownership. You can't just ignore the opportunity cost of tying up several hundred thousand dollars in a house instead of having that money in market.

Exactly. It's the same way leasing a car is basically free compared to owning one.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Yeah I don't think garage door openers are that much extra to install on top of the cost of parts, you are talking like $100-$200 extra.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Dillbag posted:

Get your ducts cleaned.

Yeah, in my old house the dryer was in the basement and I would have to vacuum out the accordion-style heat vent every year or two, and I would vacuum out the duct it attached onto as far up as I possibly could at the same time. If someone hasn't done that for 8+ years it would be bad.

My NEW house basically has a two foot horizontal run to straight outside. That is way better.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

ChipNDip posted:

Most of the people who get posted in this thread aren't underwater because of student loans, or healthcare costs. It's because of mindless consumer spending or piss poor planning and general life decisions. Having a bunch of student debt is no reason to believe in truck equity or to continue to go into credit card debt when you make more than enough to pay your bills.

This might seem true, but in reality a ton of necessities are much more expensive than they used to be. Adjusted for inflation:

* The price of a public 4 year college education has increased by 138% since 1975
* The price of a private 4 year college education has increased by 157% since 1975
* Payroll taxes have increased from 9.9% to 12.4% since 1975
* The maximum taxable income for social security has increased from $64,516 (CPI adjusted 2015 dollars) in 1975 to $118,500
* The median single family home has increased from about $150,000 to over $200,000 since 1975
* From 1975 to 2005, healthcare spending per capital has incrased by over 255%

At the same time, median household income adjusted for inflation has been somewhere between flat and +25% over the last 50 years.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

The Mandingo posted:

This is exactly the kind of information I love to wave in the face of my stupid "bootstrap yerself" step-father. Can you link your citations for these numbers?

Sure.

Housing prices: eyeballed the chart here: http://www.jparsons.net/housingbubble/, or find the little table here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Case%E2%80%93Shiller_index

Payroll tax information: http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/Content/PDF/ssrate_historical.pdf. I manually adjusted the maximum taxable earnings for the 1975 value using a CPI-inflation calculator to come up with the $64,516 number.

College education data: http://trends.collegeboard.org/college-pricing/figures-tables/tuition-fees-room-board-time-1974-75-2014-15-selected-years

Health care costs: http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/01-31-healthtestimony.pdf

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Krispy Kareem posted:

I wish I knew where 'quite a bit' sat on her monetary scale.

I use a spreadsheet that is customized to my tax situation which calculates my taxes to the dollar. It is basically 60 lines and is kind of separated out like the 1040 is, and handles all sorts of annoying extras like AMT, extra medicare tax, 1099 income with payroll taxes, etc.

My point is, you can probably put something together that fairly accurate for your situation in less than a couple hours, and use it every year for the rest of your life. I highly recommend it.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

BEHOLD: MY CAPE posted:

that's using correct variance for blackjack, my point is that grinding out tiny edges with huge hand numbers is basically how all forms of gambling or gaming are won, be it the house or player v player, and 3% is a big edge relative to most non sucker games/bets. Bigger than that and people lose money so fast that it's obvious and they don't play very long.

Slot machines in Vegas have a house edge of more than 5% and make up more than half the total gambling revenue that casinos make.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

zaurg posted:

Looking at a family summer vacation. Wife picks out a couple homes to rent for a week in the Keys for around $2500-3000 for the week. I wasn't crazy about the idea so I came back with another option - a 4 night stay at the Ritz Carlton in Key Biscayne for $1400-$2000 depending on the selection.

I assume you are trolling, but the Ritz at Key Biscayne is seriously terrible. It is too expensive, 20 minutes away from any non-Ritz options for food and entertainment, and full of people who like to stay at the Ritz.

If you want to spend money on a nice resort near Florida, go stay here instead http://www.grandlucayan.com/

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Jeffrey of YOSPOS posted:

Regardless of that, if you have the full principle value of your house in an (insured) savings account, the only (non-psychological) benefit to having "a paid off house" is no interest payments.

In a lot of states, the equity in your house is protected from lawsuits up to a certain point. For example, if I have a paid off house in Nevada, the money in my house can't be taken from me if I lose a lawsuit (up to $550k here).

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Somewhat Heroic posted:

Recently the local gas station in my area installed tire air pump that doesn't take coins but instead uses credit cards. There are other service stations around with free air pumps. Knowing that there are people who have actually financed the air we breathe drive on is absurdly BWM.

I didn't figure out until I was about 30 years old that I could buy a small $25 pump from home depot that would be just fine to fill my car tires with.

For some reason I always assumed you needed a much bigger/more expensive compressor. I felt pretty dumb for going to gas stations for like all of my 20's to get air.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

THF13 posted:

/r/Wallstreetbets in its entirety qualifies for this thread, but here is some grade A material.
https://www.reddit.com/r/wallstreetbets/comments/3cyc8r/on_monday_i_will_enter_a_true_real_and_final_yolo/

So his calls will expire worthless most likely.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

DuckConference posted:

Jesus Christ, we're approaching a singularity point where the Silicon Valley circle jerk will be creating languages and frameworks so fast they will be obsolete before release.

What the gently caress are any of those things?

I'm glad I'm not the only one that feels this way. I looked up ReactJS - It's basically a Javascript library. It is a very confusing (but presumably simpler, I guess) way of doing AJAX type stuff.

A few years ago I had to look up what type of developer I am because I didn't understand job listings anymore. Apparently I'm a "full stack" developer because I can actually make a web application without 17 other people helping me.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

Yeah, it's really unrealistic to expect investment products catering specifically to highly religious Muslims might cause some added compliance-related expenses. It's not like the government might be interested in auditing those records extra carefully or anything.

Droo
Jun 25, 2003

The average salary for STEM degrees seems to be about $65k vs $50k for non-STEM degrees. So whether it's worth a 30% raise to do STEM seems like a pretty subjective life choice - some people might find it worth it, and some people might hate the idea so much that it's not.

On an actual BWM note, I was at a labor day party at someone's house here in Vegas. The guy seemed pretty cool and his house was like 7000 square feet, and after a couple hours I remembered how our weird electric rates work here in town. Basically you have a choice between 3 different billing methods, a flat rate and two time of use rates where it's way more expensive during the summer daytime hours and cheaper all other times.

I recently downloaded my use history and looked at each rate and figured it would save me at least $600 a year to go with the extreme summer hours option, even though I had made no effort to curb those hours in particular. So I figured I could probably actually save about $1000 a year with some minimal effort. My house is half as big so I told him he could probably save a couple grand a year if he called and switched the billing method, and it was the exact same provider/service with no reason not to.

He went all crazy about how he is a doctor and he can afford nice things and he buys things that make him happy, and his practice is doing so well and everything is so great for him and he can afford to pay for the electricity and he has 7 refrigerators so he doesn't have to go downstairs at night when he wants champagne, and he pays for his parents to live in their house and he drives a nice car and hooooooooooly poo poo.

So yeah, rage reaction to me suggesting a way he can save at least $1500 a year with the effort of like 1 phone call. WTF.

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Droo
Jun 25, 2003

$3,000 in mortgage payments on a $350k house seems pretty high.. Shouldn't a 30 year be more like $2k even with property tax and PMI?

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