The Hot Hatch Discussion Thread: VAG? I prefer my FiST.

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The Hot Hatch Discussion Thread: VAG? I prefer my FiST.

What hot hatch do you own? This poll is closed.
Golf GTI / R / R32	196	0.02%
Impreza WRX / STi	133	0.01%
Mazdaspeed 3	92	0.01%
Veloster Turbo	20	0.00%
Focus ST	149	0.01%
Other Hot Hatch	230	0.02%
Elantra GT	1000001	99.92%
Total:	1000821 votes

[Edit Poll (moderators only)]

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

oRenj9 posted:

Hey there, don't forget about the Focus' little brother:

Fiesta ST

Weighing in at a paltry 2700lbs (500lbs lighter than big brother), the Fiesta ST is powered by the same 1.6L, 197 HP, 214 ft. lbs engine in the base model Fusion. The Fiesta ST can also be had starting at $22,195.

And has a torsion beam rear suspension which completely ruins the handling. If only it had the multi-link rear that's in the Focus and NC Miata. :qq:

# ¿ Jun 27, 2013 22:38

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 22:48

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

sadnessboner posted:

I've been reading every review on this thing I can, could you link something that mentions the torsion beam? It's the first I've ever heard of it being an issue

quote:

The Fiesta�s basic front-strut, rear-twist-beam suspension layout is retained, but with major differences.

...

Meanwhile, a thicker front anti-roll bar pushes more of the roll to the back, which, along with computerized torque-vectoring control that brakes the inside front wheel in turns, helps the ST corner more sharply and with less understeer.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2014-ford-fiesta-st-hatchback-first-drive-review

Understeer really isn't an issue, but the rear suspension really falls apart as soon as you start linking turns. I have a Mazda2 (lol definitely not a hot hatch) which is the same exact chassis as the Fiesta, and the car is fine to drive and it handles really well for what it is. It's super engaging and is just as fun as a Miata to toss into corners; however, when you start giving it steering inputs in opposite directions, it starts to fall apart.

The best way to describe it is lag steer. When you turn the wheel, the rear suspension will shift to the outside and then twist accordingly. The issue arises when the rear suspension is fully shifted to the outside, and then you initiate a turn on that side and the rear suspension has to shift all the way to the other side. I.e. - Turn right, rear suspension shifts full left. Turn left, rear suspension has to travel from full left to full right. It's obnoxious because you steer in for a turn, wait, and then the car initiates the turn like a second after you put in the steering input.

It's an incredibly specific knock against the chassis, but I got a boatload of it when I went to Deal's Gap last year and less so at VIR. It's disappointing that Ford has had a magic suspension that works really well on the shelf for a while now, and they looked at the original VW GTI and went "yeah, that's the ticket!"

wikipedias posted:

Engineers for the Focus, including Richard Parry-Jones, developed a class-leading, space-saving independent multi-link rear suspension, marketed as Control Blade suspension, combining the packaging of a trailing arm, with the geometry of a double wishbone suspension . The system was developed from that used in the CDW27 Ford Mondeo estate, but with various modifications to make it simpler and cheaper to build and therefore economically viable on a mass-market vehicle.

Where many competitors in the compact class, or small family car (European) class, used the less expensive non-independent twist beam suspension, Control Blade offered enhanced elasto-kinematic performance, i.e., strong body control, sharp and accurate steering regardless of the car's attitude, and an absorbent and quiet ride over bumps.

Unlike conventional multi-link suspension, Control Blade features a wide, simple, uniform thickness, pressed steel trailing arm with hub carrier � taking the place of two longitudinal locating rods, eliminating an expensive cast knuckle, and offering the same level of body control � with a lower center of gravity, reduced road noise, and at lower production cost. The long rear lateral arm controls toe, a pair of shorter front lateral arms, vertically above each other, control the camber, and the Control Blade reacts to brake and traction loads.

In testing the suspension in 2000, Motor Trend writer Jack Keebler noted "The Focus' average speed of 62.6 mph through our slalom makes it faster around the cones than a $62,000 Jaguar XJ8L and a $300,000 Bentley Continental. The impression is of having plenty of wheel travel for gobbling the larger stuff and big-car, full-frame isolation when encountering expansion joints and smaller road imperfections."

Following the 1998 introduction of Control Blade suspension and popularization by the Focus, other manufacturers (e.g., Volkswagen with the Golf V) began offering multi-link design rear suspensions in the compact class, or small family car (European) class.

# ¿ Jun 28, 2013 02:25

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Yeah, I was just saying that the Focus' scissor suspension is a magic suspension (that isn't magnetic dampers). I drive a Mazda2, and it's a blast to drive around like I stole it.

# ¿ Aug 1, 2013 00:22

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Only one option: like the most recent Need For Speed commercial.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z90m9yKaT1M&feature=youtube_gdata_player

# ¿ Aug 6, 2013 20:11

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Pay by American Express, do a chargeback on it: The Solution to Terrible Retailers.

# ¿ Aug 7, 2013 04:33

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

The Velostar is cute and it's interesting; however, the Focus ST and MS3 are on a whole other level.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2013 15:21

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Even though this isn't the A/T recommend thread, I'm going to highly suggest you spend a few weekends checking out a lot of cars.

$25k gets you a lot of car new or used, here's my short list:

Ford Focus ST
Mazda Mazdaspeed 3
Subaru WRX
Fiat 500 Abarth

With the hot hatches out of the way...

Honda S2000 (used)
Mazda MX-5 (new/used)
Toyobaru FBR-SZ
Hyundai Genesis
Ford Mustang GT

The only two on the list that don't really rustle my jimmies are the Fiat and Hyundai, but every single car is a solid pick. All of them will blow the doors off of the Windstar, and some of the non-hatches might surprise you.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2013 18:22

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

I know with the Mustang GT, you can get a few thousand below sticker without too much hassle. Right now TrueCar is showing $27,132 for a 2014. It's not as nice as a German car, but the interior is definitely passable and the 5.0 goes in both the straights and corners.

You might have more trouble getting a smoking deal on a Focus St, though.

# ¿ Aug 8, 2013 19:36

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Will it spoil me posted:

So for my first car, Im thinking about getting a Mazda3 hatch and throwing some mods in there like a bigger air intake. It doesnt have to be super "hot" or fly past the billion WRXs I see on the road in my area, but the insurance cant be any where near close to an actual Mazdaspeed3. Being a young male, insurance is by far the biggest bitch. So would this be a good move? And if so, what are some other mods I can do to increase pep and handling without breaking the monthly bank?

gently caress mods: Drive it. Go find the local autocross chapter and run the poo poo out of it in H Stock.

# ¿ Aug 20, 2013 04:48

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Ugh shut the gently caress up about the Fiesta St, don't make me trade in my Mazda2 for one.

I gotta stay strong even if it has 85 more horsepower and 110 more ft-lbs of torque.

# ¿ Sep 5, 2013 20:03

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

If you count a whole 260 lbs more as a better suspension... (it's still struts front, twist beam rear) It's the same chassis with better spring rates, rear discs, and 17" wheels. I would be all over it if they used the Focus' multilink rear.

The local Ford dealer has one in black with Recaros...

# ¿ Sep 5, 2013 20:23

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

And guess what! The service writer was correct and your uncle isn't Smokey Yunick.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2013 20:54

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

veedubfreak posted:

I pretty much drove my 11 Golf TDI just like my previous car. Breakin periods are for cars that had poo poo tolerances.

I was targeting the 2k OCI.

# ¿ Sep 11, 2013 21:25

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

5 Things that Auto Manufacturers Don't Want You to Know About Factory Fills!

# ¿ Sep 11, 2013 22:40

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Laranzu posted:

Could have at least gone with a classic

http://youareanidiot.org/

Out of an ST with 1k Miles:

This is before the oil filter was dropped into the unused drain pan.

Yeah, and the plural of anecdote is data.

# ¿ Sep 12, 2013 01:14

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

echobucket posted:

So, my new Fiesta ST makes a sort of clunking or mechanical sound when I push in the clutch. You can only hear it when you are going from 1st to second, and a little bit when going from 2nd to 3rd. It's not very loud, but I was wondering if that's normal or not.

I think it might just be the arm on the pedal. I get it infrequently on the Mazda2 and it sounds like a click when the pedal is fully depressed.

# ¿ Sep 13, 2013 15:15

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Pull the wheel off, pump it full of air, cover it with soapy water. You'll find out if it has a leak pretty fast.

# ¿ Sep 16, 2013 16:20

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

The C30 is the old Focus platform, IIRC.

akarin posted:

Hey dudes! You're forgetting Volvo has a pretty hot hatch~ The C30 T5 is a 230hp inline 5cyl FWD turbo and it oozes excellence!

Here's mine http://i.imgur.com/Lu6LeBb.jpg pretty hot right?

Disregard license plate and sleeping baby.

Are you a vampire!?!

# ¿ Sep 17, 2013 03:52

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

akarin posted:

The Ford C1 platform? I think so.

What?

I'd bet the handling is probably similar

It's a teenage vampire book movie joke.

The handling is probably different since Ford has new magic front knuckles and probably an update to their blade rear end.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2013 22:19

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Oh yeah, you're completely right.

# ¿ Sep 17, 2013 23:26

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

It looks like Volvo tried to capitalize on it, but I think a $30k USD hot hatch is a bit of a stretch from a 10 dollar book and another 10 dollar movie ticket:

# ¿ Sep 17, 2013 23:37

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

veedubfreak posted:

Just looking at it, it seems like there is a lot of wasted space on the hatch. How wide is the actual opening?

The rear glass. Great concept and it looks good, but the execution misses the purpose of having a hatchback.

You know how people are like "I put a baby grand in my Honda Fit!"? It's the polar opposite with the C30, more like "I went to the grocery store and had 3 bags worth of groceries and they all fit in the hatch! I didn't have to put one bag in the passenger seat!"

# ¿ Sep 18, 2013 14:57

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

AkrisD posted:

Went out and test drove a Fiesta ST today and was pleasantly surprised since I didn't like the Focus ST that much. Since I've been driving a Miata for almost 8 years now, the Focus felt bloated and difficult to see out of (and the lol turn radius.) The only complaint I have is that the steering is really weird when doing quick movements (lag? salesman mentioned something about electronic steering) and that redline comes up real fast. Didn't play too much with the electronics and dash stuff though. The Recaros are amazing but they are almost too small for my lats. I think I might have found my next car though. The miata is getting long in the tooth and my life is changing to need more room.

edit: Any good Fiesta ST forums? I know that's asking a lot, but usually there is something half-decent as long as you avoid certain areas.

It's not the electric steering, it's the rear suspension. The twisted beam shifts from side to side and it takes a while to go from like full passenger to full driver in a left turn to right turn transition.

I've probably ranted about it before, but the Fiesta would be the best FWD car if it had the multi-link rear suspension from the Focus. Check my other posts in this thread.

# ¿ Oct 18, 2013 14:26

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Are the mounts in the Focus, MS3, MS6, etc those dogbones with liquid in the middle of the urethane?

# ¿ Oct 19, 2013 04:33

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Go look at the Speed Hunters Koenigsegg Agera video for some motherfucking computer wizardry.

# ¿ Oct 20, 2013 02:07

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# ¿ Apr 27, 2024 22:48

Phone: Jul 30, 2005; 親子丼をほしい。

Throatwarbler posted:

They just sell a lot of diesel F350s.

It's basically this. Ford makes something insane like 90%+ of it's profits off of it's truck division.

# ¿ Nov 9, 2013 03:32

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Automotive Insanity > The Hot Hatch Discussion Thread: VAG? I prefer my FiST.