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Jerry Manderbilt posted:How many of those were UCI kids? It's like a blue bubble in what would otherwise be a red-leaning city. Woah which UCI did you go to? Maybe it's changed over the years but right now it's pretty much a 50/50 red/blue if not dipping into the red (although a lot of it is "my dad told me..."). Irvine and Newport are little islands of super assholes in the rolling sea of assholes that is Orange County. Irvine is weird. We regularly run homeless people out of town for daring to sully our pristine sidewalks but then we also have the most rigorous and caring animal program I've ever seen or heard of anywhere. (The answer is of course that animals are cute and homeless people are not.) And if we're on the subject of Cali food then I think snow deserves a special mention. Imagine if shaved ice and ice cream had a child, and then sent that child to get the finest education possible. Then one night it shows up back home and tears out both of their hearts to gain their deliciousness and add it to it's own. 
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Jun 28, 2013 11:08
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Classic Twisty posted:What's so great about California In Barstow, I saw a McDonald's made out of old boxcars. That was pretty cool
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Jun 28, 2013 11:51
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Classic Twisty posted:What's so great about California Its political acumen!  Its grand  And its beautiful beaches! 
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Jun 28, 2013 12:18
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I wish the lack of winters in SoCal, but every time I visit the traffic reminds me how much living in LA sucks. It is really nice to live in a city with a functional transportation system, even Chicago is more livablet from that perspective. LA just needs to bite the bullet at some point and spend the billions it is going to take to make the city livable. Besides that as a state California is still up there, and despite it's deep red hold out, there is a vast expanse of far shitter more conservative states out there with worse weather and far less to see. If anything California could be so much better than it is if it better leadership.
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Jun 28, 2013 12:30
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Hawkgirl posted:I'm not a UCI kid myself so I don't actually know. All the people I recognize are either United Church of Christ or Unitarian Universalist people. Living in Riverside blows. Its politically bloddy red and the weather sucks. but the people don't act like the smug assholes like you find in Orange County. My wife and I are toying with the idea of moving to Irvine for the richer clients for our business. But I can't handle the attitude people have there. Aeka 2.0 fucked around with this message at 14:54 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 14:51
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Have you seen my apex seals? I seem to have lost them.
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Ardennes posted:I wish the lack of winters in SoCal, but every time I visit the traffic reminds me how much living in LA sucks. It is really nice to live in a city with a functional transportation system, even Chicago is more livablet from that perspective. LA just needs to bite the bullet at some point and spend the billions it is going to take to make the city livable. A good amount of trainwreck in LA is how similar to many other big US cities, the whole mass transit system of electric trolleys got gutted post-World War II to make way for the more efficient automobile and freeway system. You can still find leftovers of the old transport system since some of the trolley/train routes were converted to multi-use paths:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ogeuinHxlqw etalian fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 15:00
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I wish I could move back to Kern county but I don't think I could put up with the insane politics. Or heat.
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Jun 28, 2013 15:03
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Revener posted:Woah which UCI did you go to? Maybe it's changed over the years but right now it's pretty much a 50/50 red/blue if not dipping into the red (although a lot of it is "my dad told me..."). Irvine and Newport are little islands of super assholes in the rolling sea of assholes that is Orange County. UCI probably was the reason Irvine stayed in the Big O's column in 2012, and from my experiences the university seems more Democratic-leaning.
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Jun 28, 2013 15:15
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etalian posted:A good amount of trainwreck in LA is how similar to many other big US cities, the whole mass transit system of electric trolleys got gutted post-World War II to make way for the more efficient automobile and freeway system. Granted the unfortunate part is that not only did LA lose the red car system, unlike Chicago or New York it didn't have a subway or L system as a functional backup. Not only that but investment in mass transit since the 1990s has been relatively weak that point considering the size and population of the LA metro area. DC took out their streetcar system, they at least invested in a fairly robust subway system instead. , LA only still really have one heavy rail line and a handful of light rail lines. It is better than "nothing" but it isn't going to make the different. LA is literally suffocating from a lack of public investment. That said, I don't like the Red Car system have made a real difference, streetcars are relatively slow and low capacity and the greater LA basin is a large place. It didn't need to be torn up like it did, at least some of it could have been salvaged like the MUNI system but LA is more or less screwed because of its geography and the historical lack of a heavy rail system (due to a lot of reasons, including poor timing).
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Jun 28, 2013 15:23
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Yeah LA is really huge at 503 sq miles due to how the city aggressively annexed surrounding areas over the years.
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Jun 28, 2013 15:28
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etalian posted:Yeah LA is really huge at 503 sq miles due to how the city aggressively annexed surrounding areas over the years. The Bay Area's geography (and better planning) have helped, but only to a point. No wants to admit it but a lot of the Bay Area has similar transportation issues to SoCal and there are a lot of overall similarities between the two areas. (San Jose anyone?)
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Jun 28, 2013 15:48
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FRINGE posted:This is the most important part in the OP. Actually you just reminded me about El Segundo, but first... The Bell scandal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Bell_scandal Los Angeles is made up of over 100 towns, cities and census designated places all piled into one big heap of a city. Most use LAPD for law enforcement but some have their own city police departments and such. [Note I'm not counting Burbank or Santa Monica since they a separate from Los Angeles City even through they are practically surrounded by it]. One of these small communities was Bell, who elected a bunch of yahoos who noticed that the local citizens paid no attention to Bell politics at all. So they voted themselves huge huge raises, and had one of the, if not the highest paid police chiefs in the country at a $500,000 a year salary.  When news of this broke out, many people in LA started poking around in their communities to find similar issues. El Segundo in particular had a few interesting issues [I worked and lived there for a bit a few years ago]. http://www.city-data.com/city/El-Segundo-California.html At the time it was noted for having the highest police:citizen ratio in the country, you never ran a stop sign there, although if you look at the city data map, its not super difficult to be awash in tax revenue when 1/4 of your city is a huge chevron plant, and the other 2/4 being office towers for a sea of defense contractors and the global HQ for Mattel. So why the huge police force? I never saw them at work on the office building side, so it wasn't that and chevron has its own security and fire team so it wasn't that either. They mostly did enforcement on Sepulveda traffic catching speeders, DUI's etc on drivers passing through. http://www.laweekly.com/2010-10-14/news/a-stink-in-el-segundo-over-cadillac-salaries/ Anyways a local government employee blew a whistle on some excessive spending by the city, police and fire departments, but the whole thing got swept under the rug when the employee started being harassed daily by the ESPD. It was enough though for the department to finally get cutbacks despite the cries of the city becoming a crime filled cesspool which never happened. It was pretty crazy to see El Segundo put up 4th of July banners using 8 city employees driving 3 new utility trucks [about $500,000 worth of equipment] while Beverly Hills makes due with hiring a sign company that goes around with 2 guys and a ladder.
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Jun 28, 2013 16:09
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Birthplace of SWAT
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LA is also flat broke. Gray Davis and his SB400 pension expansion that then ballooned downstream has led to 18% of the city's budget being spent on pensions. It's also part of the reason why 70% of the budget goes to pay for police and firefighter salaries and benefits (including pensions - the 70% and 18% numbers are separate calculations). There's no money left, so the roads are infamously crap, the water infrastructure is crumbling, debt levels are eye-watering, and the city is looking at a $1b cumulative deficit over the next 4 years. [citation - http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/17/us-usa-election-losangeles-idUSBRE94G0A420130517] Public employee unions have way too much power in this state and are bleeding the place dry. Things might be ok for now, but it's all going to go Detroit before too long if the imbalance isn't addressed. A big part of the reason why the budget is looking healthy again is the ongoing tech bubble, which has produced a ton of high-income taxpayers (who are paying even more now thanks to prop 30), but when that goes sideways along with the new housing bubble, those pension and benefit liabilities are going to gently caress poo poo up. Not to mention that the CCPOA (prison guard union) is a huge part of the reason why our prison system is so hellish.
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Jun 28, 2013 16:18
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California will suck until it gives up its system of referendums and propositions. It makes it too easy for monied interests to subvert the legislature (which is ironic considering the original purpose of the system.) Also, redscare is right about the police and prison guard unions. They really are too powerful, and their influence can be felt in many things from the overcrowded prisons to three strikes laws to increased funding for cops which usually goes towards militarization and larger SWAT teams. Also the incredible pension deals they get squeeze out most other funding and act as a sort of hidden austerity program for other parts of the budget like infrastructure, education and health. Finally, Cal-Mex is poo poo, Tex-Mex is the one true Mexican American cuisine.
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Jun 28, 2013 16:34
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I would go to town on Kamala Harris like a forest fire on Santa Barbara. edit: agreed. Tex-Mex supremacy. Cal-Mex can take its beans and its dry-rear end tiny little tortillas and its no cheese and no steak and gently caress off back to Chihuahua or wherever it came from. All Of The Dicks fucked around with this message at 16:47 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 16:39
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Wax Dynasty posted:California will suck until it gives up its system of referendums and propositions. It makes it too easy for monied interests to subvert the legislature (which is ironic considering the original purpose of the system.) It is too late to give up on the proposition system, it is pretty much the only way to raise taxes at this point. Lobbyist already own the legislature anyway. Eh,Tex Mex deserves the reputation it gets
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Jun 28, 2013 16:42
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VideoTapir posted:The California Burrito Zone actually extends into parts of Oregon, Nevada and western Arizona. Quality may peak in certain locales, but you'll see what I mean if you drive east across the southwest sampling burritos as you go. (By the time you get to New Mexico you'll just give up and have nothing but wet burritos.) Wax Dynasty posted:Finally, Cal-Mex is poo poo, Tex-Mex is the one true Mexican American cuisine. New Mexico may have wet burritos, but in exchange we get red and green chili to smother our enchiladas and burritos and make Tex Mex taste like mild flavorless Northeastern food. Also our sopaipillas with honey are unmatched by California and Texas. What are you going to do? Offer me some FLAN? Pfft!
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Jun 28, 2013 16:48
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Wax Dynasty posted:Also, redscare is right about the police and prison guard unions. They really are too powerful, and their influence can be felt in many things from the overcrowded prisons to three strikes laws to increased funding for cops which usually goes towards militarization and larger SWAT teams. Also the incredible pension deals they get squeeze out most other funding and act as a sort of hidden austerity program for other parts of the budget like infrastructure, education and health. Hey let's not forget about the absolute invincibility of the prison system meaning that we are currently in direct defiance of a court order from SCOTUS like a modern day segregation era south. e: Brown v. Plata 2011
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Jun 28, 2013 17:03
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ComradeCosmobot posted:New Mexico may have wet burritos, but in exchange we get red and green chili to smother our enchiladas and burritos and make Tex Mex taste like mild flavorless Northeastern food. New Mexico and Arizona should change places on the map. Because gently caress Arizona.
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Jun 28, 2013 17:12
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It's amusing how despite all the higher costs of during business big name companies such as SpaceX/Google/Loral would rather be in California for their corporate HQ than at a lower cost place like Texas or the South.
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Jun 28, 2013 17:24
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etalian posted:It's amusing how despite all the higher costs of during business big name companies such as SpaceX/Google/Loral would rather be in California for their corporate HQ than at a lower cost place like Texas or the South. Ultimately you get what you pay for.
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Jun 28, 2013 17:30
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Play posted:Okay, this is very simplistic. Firstly, my county has universal low income healthcare. Secondly, the state is right in the middle of implementing the PPACA, which was not in existence the last time they aimed for universal healthcare. Thirdly, the state is just now recovering from seriously terrible budget deficits and is trying to avoid spending like a drunken sailor which is the standard Democratic party routine when there is a budget surplus; this is also as opposed to the situation last time. I would say give it time. If Obamacare is not working well (it looks like it will be, starting prices on the exchange are lower than expected and California is going to be the premier test case for the PPACA), then we'll see what happens, but personally I am all for caution and not loving up this opportunity given to the party by the voters. If we're still running a surplus in a couple years we'll see what can be done. You called my analysis simplistic? I can't think of a time in recent history where California democrats have spent like drunken sailors, but if they wanted to, they easily could. The state is one of the 10 largest economies in the world, and contains 15% of the country. California can afford to do a lot of things, but there's simply no interest from State Democrats to not be 90's Republicans. Or are you doing that Political Capital thing, where Democrats can't do anything good now, because something something and they will ~in the future~. I'm not simply talking about UHC here, the party could do anything it wants. Yet here we are, cutting school budgets, cutting programs, fighting for the right to continue torturing prisoners.
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Jun 28, 2013 17:37
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Classic Twisty posted:What's so great about California #1 income inequality in the nation means if you're rich enough to afford to live in San Francisco you can literally swim in a sea of poors. Splish splash!
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Jun 28, 2013 17:50
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UberJew posted:Hey let's not forget about the absolute invincibility of the prison system meaning that we are currently in direct defiance of a court order from SCOTUS like a modern day segregation era south. We quite literally had the director of corrections from Texas testifying that our prison conditions were inhumane. Let that one sink in.
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Jun 28, 2013 17:52
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redscare posted:LA is also flat broke. Gray Davis and his SB400 pension expansion that then ballooned downstream has led to 18% of the city's budget being spent on pensions. It's also part of the reason why 70% of the budget goes to pay for police and firefighter salaries and benefits (including pensions - the 70% and 18% numbers are separate calculations). There's no money left, so the roads are infamously crap, the water infrastructure is crumbling, debt levels are eye-watering, and the city is looking at a $1b cumulative deficit over the next 4 years. [citation - http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/17/us-usa-election-losangeles-idUSBRE94G0A420130517] As usual, the ancient refrain of "we're just too generous to our employees" marches on. No, we underfunded those pensions to play budget games, and golly, turns out that after those people got out of office they don't give a poo poo about the havok that caused. Surely it must be workers fault.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:00
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Arsenic Lupin posted:We quite literally had the director of corrections from Texas testifying that our prison conditions were inhumane. Let that one sink in. Texas isn't even on the radar when it comes to bad prison conditions in the country though. So what is supposed to "sink-in" other than California tribalism and deflection?
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Jun 28, 2013 18:02
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Arsenic Lupin posted:We quite literally had the director of corrections from Texas testifying that our prison conditions were inhumane. Let that one sink in. As a reminder, Texas is the state where they hide prisoners in tunnels during inspections to hide overcrowding, and is known for it's juvy-to-adult-prison pipeline. Powercrazy posted:Texas isn't even on the radar when it comes to bad prison conditions in the country though. So what is supposed to "sink-in" other than California tribalism and deflection? How wrong you are. Just because not aware of it, doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Read up in the prison thread if you want to know more.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:03
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Could someone do a write up on the water issue? I'm from Bakersfield and I see signs saying how farmers have had rates increased yet they only revive 25% of the water they were getting 4 years ago.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:06
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Yep it's them drat public employee unions. Because CTA and SEIU don't have basically zero influence in Sacramento, don't get paid bupkis and hosed on every contract and don't cover an order of magnitude more state employees than CCPOA does or anything.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:06
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UberJew posted:Yep it's them drat public employee unions. Because CTA and SEIU don't have basically zero influence in Sacramento, don't get paid bupkis and hosed on every contract and don't cover an order of magnitude more state employees than CCPOA does or anything. No, you see the richest state in the country simply can't afford to pay out pensions that are similar to the ones paid by many nations that are a fractions of it's size.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:11
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Guidos Python posted:Could someone do a write up on the water issue? I'm from Bakersfield and I see signs saying how farmers have had rates increased yet they only revive 25% of the water they were getting 4 years ago. The classic discussion of California and water is Cadillac Desert, which I'm finally going to go put on the Kindle and read.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:13
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Arsenic Lupin posted:We're in a motherloving drought. 2013 is the driest year on record. It's a really good book, anybody with any interest in water rights in California (and if you don't have any interest in it but are posting in this thread you should, there really isn't anything more entertaining, or horrifying, in CA politics) ought to read it.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:15
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Guidos Python posted:Could someone do a write up on the water issue? I'm from Bakersfield and I see signs saying how farmers have had rates increased yet they only revive 25% of the water they were getting 4 years ago. It's probably true on the rate increases and cuts, or not far from the truth. My understanding is that the main issue was that in 2007 a federal district court severely restricted water pumping from the Delta due to it threatening the endangered Delta smelt (a small fish). Keep in mind that the Aqueduct which supplies water to Central Valley agriculture also is a major pipeline to heavily populated Southern California. Ultimately it's a fight between environmental/conservation groups, farmers, and urban areas for that water supply. edit: oh, I live in LA. Pellisworth fucked around with this message at 18:23 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 18:20
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etalian posted:It's amusing how despite all the higher costs of during business big name companies such as SpaceX/Google/Loral would rather be in California for their corporate HQ than at a lower cost place like Texas or the South. One could argue that those companies are based where the talent is. So for a tech company, it's Silicon Valley and for aerospace companies it's Southern California. It's debatable how much this has to do with the current political climate of California vis-à-vis Texas. Certainly the UC system contributes to building that talent base via the highly talented graduates they churn out.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:23
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Guidos Python posted:Could someone do a write up on the water issue? I'm from Bakersfield and I see signs saying how farmers have had rates increased yet they only revive 25% of the water they were getting 4 years ago. There is only so much water to go around, and that amount has been lower than previously due to drought conditions and new environmental limits that prevent the state from completely drying up rivers. Someone has to choose between supplying cities with water or using that water to grow oranges and avocados in the desert. Those rates that that they like to complain about are still a tiny fraction of what it actually costs to ship water to their farm in the desert. withak fucked around with this message at 18:28 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 18:24
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Ardennes posted:I wish the lack of winters in SoCal, but every time I visit the traffic reminds me how much living in LA sucks. It is really nice to live in a city with a functional transportation system, even Chicago is more livablet from that perspective. LA just needs to bite the bullet at some point and spend the billions it is going to take to make the city livable. Los Angeles is absolutely spending money to expand public transit faster than any other city in the county. The city is just huge and started way behind.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:31
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UberJew posted:It's a really good book, anybody with any interest in water rights in California (and if you don't have any interest in it but are posting in this thread you should, there really isn't anything more entertaining, or horrifying, in CA politics) ought to read it. People should also read up on the Central Valley project, and then drive down I-5 and see the gigantic aqueducts and pipes running over the grapevine in to SoCal. If you have lived in CA and haven't ever personally been affected by the never ending issues surrounding water, you probably aren't paying attention. Due to the Delta ruling they are putting in a lot of pipelines and whatnot upstream (on most of the rivers) in order to divert the water, it's just taking time. Basically a series of water transfers southwards from one district to the next to make up for the loss of the delta. Re: Pensions - it's an issue not just because of the size, but the ease of abuse (in terms of gaming the system to make well more in retirement than during actual employment), grandfathering of contracts that should never have been given, and also for many years CALPERS basically said "yeah we're fine" (during the bubbles) so states and counties stopped paying in. Then came the crash and the lack of payments made the loss even harder. There were definitely larger unions (hello CHP / state police) who got absolutely amazing deals, on top of the large %'s getting disability (at a rate far higher than that of private industry). That's part of why you are seeing cities and counties all watching the bankruptcies being declared by Stockton etc - once it starts it's just going to go through and all those liabilities will be shed one way or another, regardless of whether they are reasonable or not. It's going to suck for the less powerful unions (of which there are many - small independent unions). Even if prop 13 was removed and magically property prices remained stable, I don't think we'd have anywhere near enough revenue (until UHC comes to the US, so never) to deal fulfilling with pensions and infrastructure work and whatnot that's necessary. We'll slowly crawl back but the budgets aren't going to be fixed with the current contracts (and the prison system). edit: I also forgot about the issues up near Sacremento about the rapid building of cities. Cities/Counties were approving construction basically in the vast flood plains, while the state was effectively on the hook for flood insurance and disaster stuff. Most of the levees in the Central Valley were not built by a government, but by farmers and other private folks, and have all sorts of issues (like trees, ground squirrels, etc). The army corps of engineers came in and audited and whatnot and finally a "stop all construction" order came in for a variety of cities because they were basically all depending upon levees that were nowhere near what would be necessary to safeguard (in the event we have an actual wet year instead of drought). So now there's like a 10 year (or 30 year) project to go around and fix all the levees. (Not to mention places like Folsom, where the dam and lake is not designed to a single lake system, and nearly overtopped a couple years back. It's supposed to be part of a two dam system but the 2nd one was killed by environmentalists back in the 70's and the folsom dam wasn't adjusted to deal with the really wet years) Pervis fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 18:34
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Dusseldorf posted:Los Angeles is absolutely spending money to expand public transit faster than any other city in the county. The city is just huge and started way behind. Saying it spends more on expanding transit in a country like the USA isn't saying much, though I suspect your numbers are off given that NYC is digging enormous tunnels right now. LA has a 30 year plan to build a system that could be done in 10. Pervis posted:Re: Pensions - it's an issue not just because of the size, but the ease of abuse (in terms of gaming the system to make well more in retirement than during actual employment), grandfathering of contracts that should never have been given, and also for many years CALPERS basically said "yeah we're fine" (during the bubbles) so states and counties stopped paying in. Then came the crash and the lack of payments made the loss even harder. There were definitely larger unions (hello CHP / state police) who got absolutely amazing deals, on top of the large %'s getting disability (at a rate far higher than that of private industry). That's part of why you are seeing cities and counties all watching the bankruptcies being declared by Stockton etc - once it starts it's just going to go through and all those liabilities will be shed one way or another, regardless of whether they are reasonable or not. It's going to suck for the less powerful unions (of which there are many - small independent unions). The reason that cities are declaring bankruptcy is the same as why CalPERS took a bath on it's investments: They got lied to by the finance industry. We've been underfunding our pension obligations for decades to play budget games, and to blame the result of that on the employees is so hilariously cynical I could laugh or cry. I'll have to dig it up, but I believe the numbers state that erasing prop 13 would easily fix California's deficits. You could double the property tax, run a surplus, and still be below the national average of property tax rates. People always seem to forget, California has a bigger economy than all but the biggest countries. Our deficits are insignificant compared to our GDP. Zeitgueist fucked around with this message at 18:39 on Jun 28, 2013 |
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Jun 28, 2013 18:34
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On the subject of LA and public transit, the subway and light rail system is actually quite nice. Trains are quite timely and come often, reasonable cost, and honestly very clean and safe* compared to other metro systems I've ridden on. The problem is that it doesn't actually go anywhere and specifically doesn't serve the western half of Los Angeles at all. There was a ballot initiative last fall for a half-cent sales tax increase to accelerate the planned extensions to the LA Metro, but it failed 66.11% to 33.89%. Yes, failed. Because in CA it takes a 2/3 majority to raise taxes for anything ever  *Except the Blue Line that goes to Long Beach. It runs through South LA and while I don't feel unsafe during the daytime I wouldn't ride it at night.
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Jun 28, 2013 18:35
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UberJew posted:Yep it's them drat public employee unions. Because CTA and SEIU don't have basically zero influence in Sacramento, don't get paid bupkis and hosed on every contract and don't cover an order of magnitude more state employees than CCPOA does or anything. Unless a Republican wet dream has become reality and the school system got privatized while nobody was looking, the CTA is a public employee union. Zeitgueist posted:As usual, the ancient refrain of "we're just too generous to our employees" marches on. They got underfunded because the employees were only asked to contribute a token sum and the demographics stopped being favorable because pension plans, like most social welfare programs, are demographic-based ponzi schemes that are only sustainable if there's a ton of employees with a small pool of retirees. This obviously isn't the case and full benefit pensions after 20 years with no minimum age are insane. A cop or firefighter can retire in their 50s and still collect their pensions while going back to work. Then there's all the other various BS calculations in other places like the DWP that only look at the last few years of employment for calculating pension size. Regardless of your feelings on the generosity of these benefits, the money has to come from somewhere. In the case of LA, there isn't any, so either existing employees have to pay more or benefits have to be reigned in to a more sustainable level. Same goes for the public safety spending level in the city. There's no good possible outcome if things get left as they are, and I'd rather not see LA turn into Detroit. Zeitgueist posted:No, you see the richest state in the country simply can't afford to pay out pensions that are similar to the ones paid by many nations that are a fractions of it's size. This is a stupid comparison. Aside from most of those countries also having looming (or existing) financial problems, those nations don't have most of their taxes going to a higher sovereign (also the pension crisis extends past the state level and into the county and municipal levels as well).
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Jun 28, 2013 18:37
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