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FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I live in the Inland Empire and work in Irvine and sometimes I just want to kill myself.

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FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Cam someone enlighten me on the benefits of this high speed rail line? I live in California and take the Metrolink trains about 2 hours a day but I'm unsure of who this high speed line is for? Are people going to commute from LA to SD or SF? Or is this more an alternative to flying with ticket prices to match?

I can see a few segments being popular like the IE to LA lines but many of them don't seem like they will see much use.

Also whatever happened with those crazy plans to dig a tunnel through the mountain next to the 91 freeway? I see they're expanding the 91 express toll lanes now but nothing on regular traffic.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Isn't the Vegas line just for people to go spend a bunch of money in Nevada?

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Pellisworth posted:

The LA Metro light rail runs until 2am, and it's only two rails for each line as well. I'm sure given the money and willpower, BART running times could be tweaked to some extent on Friday and Saturday nights.

Edit: LA Metro will also run double-duty late night schedules for big events, too. Last summer when I went to Hard Summer (30-50k people music festival/rave), Metro ran until I think 4am with trains every 15min or something and your ticket to the event also worked as your ticket for the train that night. Even though the city of LA hates raves and rave-type events (and there was some dumb aggressive LAPD hijinks at the event), running the trains late is a really convenient and responsible option.

gently caress I wish the Metrolink trains ran that late. My Metrolink line runs until 6pm and only has 4 whole runs on the weekend, 2 groups set 8 hours apart.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

GD_American posted:

NSFW has a grand piece by Yasha Levine in this month's print issue (I'll unlock it for the thread when they put it online) that's basically a tour guide for outsiders to the oligarchs of the San Joaquin Valley. I moved away from Cal in the early 90s, so while I knew about Cowschwitz and Tejon, I never knew about the massive poo poo plant or the Fiji water assholes' massive mansion there.


e- here's the first part/teaser:

https://www.nsfwcorp.com/dispatch/oligarch-valley/29f2d59a4ed8ba67cbefb9eb8c2513be10d3567b/

Holy poo poo, thanks so much for this link. I was able to track the author back to the guy who made the whole series about living in Victorville that I had been looking for for years now.

http://exiledonline.com/tag/victorville/

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Willa Rogers posted:

Did you guys see the story about the jump in housing prices across the state last month?


http://www.latimes.com/business/money/la-fi-mo-california-home-prices-20130718,0,5609755.story

One of the reasons I'm planning on moving out of state soon is that I want to buy a home for my retirement, and the r.e. market here is nuts.

I'm living in a "hot" area right now (amazing schools and close to major metro area) and the market has gone bonkers in my area. It crashed extremely hard and is now getting back to it's 2005 levels. My coworker is looking to buy a home where I'm at right now and he's had to deal with a line for open houses and competing for a house with literally 41 other offers. All cash, no inspection, 7 day close is the norm.

It's calmed down a bit from a month ago when a combination of rising interest rates and changing FHA guidelines pushed a sort of "deadline" to lock in loans, but it's still very much a seller's market

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

cbservo posted:

Another fun thing about our state- the gently caress-off blackouts we get:suicide:
any other SoCal goons get affected by the blackout centered around mission viejo/coto de caza/San Clemente that happened around 11:45 tonight?

God, sometimes I hate summer here.

For how much A/C we burn in the Inland Empire I haven't gotten a blackout yet. Probably because it's a bunch of new construction so new lines.

I couldn't imagine a blackout in 106 degree heat though.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

The only time you may use the phrase "Cali" is when you need to inform others that you may be "going, going, back, back"

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

rope kid posted:

I'm originally from Wisconsin and I wound up buying a house for my parents to live in (there) back in 2005. I thought maybe CA prices would come down into an affordable range after the crash but... nope! At this rate, I'll never own a home in CA and may one day wind up heading back to WI.

Oh there plenty of places with affordable housing in CA, it's just in places you don't want to live.

You can get a brand new 5 bedroom home in Victorville for less than $100k!

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I think what we can all agree on is that the Bay Area is terrible and that Southern California is the best California.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Leperflesh posted:

gently caress you! You are exactly wrong!

Hell, I might even say that Orange County is the best thing about this whole state. You know what they say, "As goes the OC, so goes the nation"

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

I just love that Rancho Santa Margarita plays the fictional pedo-haven Sudden Valley in the new season of Arrested Development.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

etalian posted:

I like the article on apartments of the future for the Bay Area:
(Only $1600 a month)


At this point they should rip the wheels off an RV and start stacking them.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Papercut posted:

Still better than paying a $1200/mo mortgage for a McMansion in Tracy or Patterson or some poo poo like that.

I live in a 4200sq. ft. McMansion built at the peak of the bubble and I would rather take a city with no culture than living in a shoebox.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

etalian posted:

This is pretty interesting:
(Find your county)
http://www.dqnews.com/charts/monthly-charts/ca-city-charts/zipcar.aspx

All the non-Central valley/big population center counties saw at least 25% appreciation vs. 2012.


etalian posted:

Yeah it's really interesting to look at unemployment tables for the whole states, places in Central valley are 14%-20% unemployment:
Find you county here http://www.calmis.ca.gov/file/lfmonth/countyur-400c.pdf

10.3% unemployment and 42% housing appreciation over the last year :stare:
Gotta love those for bedroom communities

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Keyser S0ze posted:

SF Bay Area/L.A. individual investors and Real Estate Investment Firms buy up all the central valley stuff for rentals.

My area has a ton of foreign investors snapping up homes for rental in a good school district.
My city is one of the very few in the Inland Empire with an Asian population over 20%

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Keyser S0ze posted:

yeah, that too and for the chinese birthing stations.


In suburbs of L.A., a cottage industry of birth tourism
Companies operating 'maternity hotels' cater to pregnant women from Chinese-speaking nations who want an American-citizen newborn.

http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jan/03/local/la-me-birthing-centers-20130104

That story was about the city next to us and we had one maternity hotel shut down in our city last year.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

enraged_camel posted:

This is perpetuated by sleazy real estate agents. I had one such "friend" on Facebook who kept posting stuff like "It's a great time to buy a house! I just a got a new list of amazing property - contact me if you're in the market!"

At one point I could no longer take it and I commented on his post.

Me: Why is it a great time to buy a house?
Him: Prices went down when the bubble popped, so if you buy now you'll make out like a bandit!
Me: This is Southern California right? Because prices here haven't changed at all, and in fact went UP in some places. Rent-to-price ratio is so high that people are better off renting.
Him: Not true. I have the numbers right here.
Me: Really? Can you post them for everyone to see?

A few minutes later he sends me a private message: "Yo dude, you're hurting my business. Can you please stop?"

I proceeded to unfriend the rear end in a top hat. Last time I heard, he was doing pretty well for himself selling overpriced houses to people fresh out of college. :argh:

It's a little disingenuous to say that it isn't a good time to buy, as long as you're in the right place in life to afford home ownership. I bought a home in late 2011 after having to hold out for so long as the market ballooned up. I also refinanced when interest rates were at their lowest points ever. For many people who were priced out of the bubble or who had to restart their careers and are now on stable ground, prices and rates may be still be in the range that home ownership looks attractive.

For reference, I live in SoCal and I bought a home that was bank foreclosed at $884k for $400k so to say that prices haven't changed at all certainly isn't true.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

VideoTapir posted:

If you didn't buy in the bubble because you were priced out, that doesn't mean that it would have been a good buy if you'd had more money at the time.

You're correct, but I never said anything about buying pre-crash. I'm specifically stating that for many people in many areas (especially SoCal), prices have fallen nearly 50% from their peak and rates are at the lowest points in history. If you want the good along with the bad of homeownership, it's a pretty good time to jump in.

Either way, publicly making GBS threads on someone's business is kinda a dick move.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Here's a good graph showing investors and cash buyers in the housing market right now. Home sales continue to rise while mortgage applications remain flat.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

GrumpyDoctor posted:

How did we get over a page of SF Bay Area pizza chat without anyone mentioning Zachary's?

Because Bay Area food chat is boring as gently caress.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

It's wildfire season in SoCal again and there's a big fire that's been burning near my coworker's house in Lake Elsinore. This was snapped by someone the other day of the firefighting near his home.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

ProperGanderPusher posted:

Lots of poors and immigrants?

Exactly, lots of people either priced out or sold their homes during the bubble and moved out to San Bernardino and Riverside county. The trains are packed with people commuting into Union Station every day.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

A White Guy posted:

A few months ago, a recruiter came down from Humboldt State (at the very end of the app period, for some reason) to San Diego. I went because Humboldt is my dream school (ie, not back home in SoCal), and because I was accepted in February. The presentation was preceeding along fine with some absurdly cheery alumini leading it, when one of the male aluminis gets the mic, and one of the first thing that come out of his mouth is :

"You may think that Humboldt is the number one county in California for the production of marijuanna. You are wrong. That dubious distinction goes to San Bernadino county. Humboldt is a distant second."

My mother and I exchanged raised eyebrows, and the statement got a chuckle from the room.

I imagine my next two years are going to have much partaking of the Mary jane in my future. That's ok. Move in date is next Monday. :v:

Well no poo poo

Wikipedia posted:

With an area of 20,105 square miles, San Bernardino County is the largest county in the United States by area. It is larger than each of the nine smallest states, larger than the four smallest states combined, and larger than 71 different sovereign nations.

Plus a large portion is barren nothingness and the prevalent grow houses in the urban areas (23 grow houses busted this year in my city of 50k!) then yeah, there's a lot of grow activity out here.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

WampaLord posted:

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > San Francisco Megathread: There Are Other Parts of California?

I'd bring up some interesting tidbits about my area around San Bernardino and Riverside county but it's all terrible and depressing anyways.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

cbservo posted:

It mystifies me that Riverside is one of the fastest growing counties in CA.(including me and my wife, who are moving from OC to Corona)

I'm not sure what's so mystifying, the only motivation for people moving out here is housing prices. I sold our lovely 50s tract home in Orange County and bought a lovely 00s tract home 3 times as large for the same price. And I'm in one of the nicer area of the IE.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

StandardVC10 posted:

No, go ahead. I've been out there only a few times and around here (Orange County) people talk about that part of the world like it's Satan's own rear end in a top hat. On the one hand I've never come across anything to disprove that on the other hand I feel like I don't actually know what is going on there and what the issues are.

I'm coming on 2 years in the Inland Empire after living all my life in North Orange County (which is actually quite different from South Orange County that most people think of) so I don't pretend to have all the answers but if I get some time I might write some stuff up about things I find interesting or unique about the area.

I will repost this from the suburbia thread in GBS about my wonderful city though:

I live in Eastvale, CA, a new city founded in 2010 on the land of old dairy farmers who cashed out during the boom. Our population went from 5,000 in 2000 to 50,000 in 2010. It's the very definition of a suburban wasteland.

http://goo.gl/maps/0XWSF


We've got an Applebees and a Target, but no library or post office. Our city hall is located in the shopping center between a Gamestop and Nestle Toll House cookie store. The houses are big (mine is 4200sq. ft.) and the schools are nice, but it's so very much suburbia. Nothing feels right, I can't quite put my finger on it.

The problem is that it's very difficult to afford a house in Orange County or LA where most people out here work. 80% of our residents commute to OC or LA, my commute into Irvine is 45 miles each way. To move closer to work would mean spending 3x as much for a house 1/2 the size.

Luckily there is a option for me to take the train but even then the commute is still 90 minutes.

I love working on my lawn though and wouldn't trade it for anything.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Eegah posted:

Let me guess, every street is curved to keep them teen-agers from driving their hot rods fast.

Yes and curved roads allow for more cul-de-sacs houses which sell for more money :ssh:


nm posted:

Victorville is scary these days. I think it has more problems than San Bernardino or Ontario.
It might be orange county without anything fun, more poor people, no jobs (besides the prison!), and 3x the meth per capita.

This is a real cool article about living in Victorville
http://exiledonline.com/dispatch-from-victorville-levine-starts-his-journey-into-the-heart-of-americas-foreclosure-nightmare/

Victorville was the hardest hit in all of Southern California by the housing boom. More than half of the residents commute 2 hours each way to work in LA or OC.

quote:

Victorville is the embodiment of the housing bubble. In 2007, its population grew by 9.5%, and nearly doubled in the past eight years. Now there are just over 100,000 people living here. The growth wasn’t related to anything tangible; no KIA auto-plant opened up. The Air Force base here, which employed thousands of civilians, closed down more than a decade ago. There were barely enough jobs to support the pre-boom population. But the people didn’t move here for the jobs. Victorville was a commuter development and proud of it. According to official city data, most of the adults here commute at least two hours each way—some make the 100-mile trip out to Los Angeles, others trek 200 miles east all the way out to Las Vegas.

There's a whole series about this guy who rented a home in Victorville for a year or two.
http://exiledonline.com/tag/victorville/

FCKGW fucked around with this message at 07:09 on Aug 17, 2013

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

VideoTapir posted:

Is this true, and does it imply what I think it does about the people who would pay more for such a house? 

My mental image is of someone cradling a gun with their back to a wall...always keep your back to the wall and face the door.

Yes it's true, but it's not as sinister as you think. Homes on the ends of cul-de-sacs are worth more usually because

1) They have bigger backyards generally
2)Less traffic so it's quieter and "the kids can play outside"

I guess there's probably some weirdos out here but they're all living in Menifee building so many "Doomsday Shelters" the city had to ban them until they could get a permitting scheme in place.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Aeka 2.0 posted:

Eastvale is the weirdest thing. I still call it Mira Loma. I go to the chiropractor next to the Five Guys there. When I drive on the 15 though there all I keep saying is "this used to be miles of cow poo poo" Mind if I ask what you paid so I can cut myself? My 2000 sq footer in riverside was 400k in 2004.

You lived in Sky Country, correct? I paid $400k for a 4200 sq. ft. 5 bed 4 bath home in Dec. 2011. It was bank owned and home was foreclosed in 2008 for $805k.
Of course a house that big brings $600 electric bills too :suicide:

Eastvale actually had a "turf war" with Mira Loma (which incorporated as Jurupa Valley now) over who would get the shopping centers along the freeway when they incorporated. Mira Loma wanted the centers on both sides of the freeway, Eastvale wanted the same. They ended up splitting them up but it resulted in weird boundary issues like 10% of Eastvale's residents (myself included) have a different zip code and parks department from the rest of the city.

Fun Fact: Eastvale has one of the highest household incomes in the area at around $106k, beating many OC cities like Laguna Beach and Newport Beach.


Leperflesh posted:

Basically these developments are horrible for everything except ensuring people who really really want a big back yard with a pool, a sidewalk with absolutely no strangers walking down it, and a perfectly uniform neighborhood with no character or variation to it at all, get what they want.

It's amazing to me that this has been well understood for at least 25 years now by urban planners, and yet there are still communities eagerly slapping huge mazes of cul-de-sacs onto hundred-acre tracts of ex-urban semi-desert. Everyone involved in planning and developing those places are in it for the quick buck with no concern whatsoever for the sustainability of the city or its infrastructure.

It kinda makes sense when you realize that these are mainly bedroom communities though. I mean, most people want the big back yard with the pool to relax on the weekends, they want a quiet street so they can sleep in. They don't want to really go out and socialize with their neighbors because it's usually in the late evening when they get home anyways. The only shopping you do is the trip to Costco, Target and Trader Joes on the weekend anyways, and you can do all that shopping in a single location which many people prefer.

I like my house, I like my lawn, I like my pool. There's a bunch of parks around here I can take my kids to. The schools are great. I do talk to my neighbors but I think I'm the exception. I do wish the city had more culture but there's trade offs for everything.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

You can pry my lawn from my cold dead hands.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Zeitgueist posted:

In a complete shock to nobody at all, Express Lanes are a dumb idea except for making money.

My favorite part of this is they did the analysis after they made the change, instead of, you know, looking at any other place that did this.

As someone who has paid nearly $10 for a single toll along the horrible horrible stretch of the 91 eastbound freeway, gently caress express lanes. It was a private road originally built with a clause that prohibited any freeway expansion or public transportation improvements to keep toll revenues high.

quote:

Opening in 1995, the 91 Express Lanes is the first privately funded tollway built in the United States since the 1940s, and the first fully automated tollway in the world.

The express lanes have been controversial because of a "non-compete" agreement that the state made with CPTC. The clause, which was negotiated by Caltrans and never was brought to the legislature, prevent any improvements along 30 miles (48 km) of the Riverside Freeway to ensure profit for the express lanes. This includes restricting the state from widening the free lanes or building mass transit near the freeway. CPTC filed a lawsuit against Caltrans over freeway widening related to the interchange with the Eastern Transportation Corridor interchange, which was dismissed once the purchase with OCTA was finalized

The 91 express is also expanding to I-15 north and south for more of that sweet toll money.

They had also originally planned to add toll lanes and an additional regular lane in each direction on I-15 though Corona-Ontario but suprise, suprise the revised plans just have the toll lanes now.

Also, does anyone else thing we should get rid of carpool lanes as well? When gas was cheap, the lanes served as a motivation to carpool. If you ride two or more, you get to ride in a special lane to "beat traffic". Now that gas isn't so cheap, the main motivation to carpool is to save money. Getting rid of the lanes won't have an impact on carpool rates as long as gas prices continue to increase.

FCKGW fucked around with this message at 19:23 on Aug 20, 2013

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Xaris posted:

By the way, I just learned this last week but you can deduct commuter costs from your paycheck pre-tax which can save you quite a lot if you are commuting every day :doh:. I spend about $160+ a month on BART which essentially translates to a savings of $450+ a year (depending on your bracket) if I was deducting it directly from my paycheck. If you bike you're able to deduct $20 a month as well and I know theres a couple options.

This is a program your employer has to set up, you can't just jump in as an individual.

Also how long is that BART train? I pay $18 for a round trip ticket on Metrolink or $230 a month for a 30 mile trip.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

withak posted:

A 30-mile round-trip commute on BART will run you something like $8-10/day.

That's 30 miles each way :smith:

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

nm posted:

There is actually very good commuter rail service from San Bernardino, CA to Los Angeles. You can buy a house in San Bernardino for $100k (or less), while you struggle to get one for $400-500k in LA, yet no one is clamoring to move out here.

I was about to respond how this isn't true since the Inland Empire is still one of the fastest growing areas of the country and has now surpassed 24 states in total population. You can see how the recession barely made a dent slowing down growth.

Here's a population growth chart:


quote:

From 1988, when the QER was founded (2.20 million) until 2012(4.29 million), the Inland Empire has added 2.09 million people, an increase of 95.0% (Exhibit 2) California added 9.62 million people in this period (34.3%). Significantly from 1988-2012, 21.7% of all new California residents were in the Inland Empire. The size of the area in 2012 was 420,000 people above Oregon (3.87 million), making it more populated than 24 of the 50 U.S. states.

However, I did notice a graph that notes that nearly all the growth since the recession has been from within the region and we have less people from LA and OC moving in now.



So while the IE is still growing, and we're still mainly a commuter town, many people aren't moving in from other areas anymore. I predict as housing recovers more quickly in OC and LA and prices in the IE stay depressed, migration will pick up again.

Meanwhile, all the cheap housing is being picked up by investors and flipped as rentals. 58% of foreclosed homes went to investors before even hitting the open market.



The unfortunately named SANBAG county website does a quartly economic report on the Inland Empire and it's a fascinating read if you're into stats are charts. If you're interested in the IE at all it's a good read.
http://sanbag.ca.gov/news/pub_quart-econ-report.html

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

nm posted:

You're far more optimistic regarding the IE than me. The people moving here aren't the tax base from OC or LA, they're people priced out of other places. They don't want to move here, they have to.
I don't think the days of the 2000s will be back where people who could afford to live closer moved out here due to being able to save money or getting more sq/footage. Maybe in Rancho, but no further. San Bernardino proper has abandonment that looks more like Detroit than SoCal. Even Redlands, which sort of a wealthy island, has way too many abandoned properties. Even abandoned properties in the hills which used to be unheard of (Newer construction only, older construction is still $500k+).
We're talking about outer rings stealing the residential tax base from a more expensive inner city. That isn't happening here.

Yeah, I think you're right. It seems like the 15 freeway is the limit as far as people are willing to move inland and still have a sane commute to their work in LA or OC. Once you move out further than that (maybe Riverside is the exception), you're really looking at people who can't afford to even buy a house in Corona but still work near the coast. Thea whole reason I moved out here from Orange County is because there was no way I could afford a larger home anywhere near my work. Now I didn't necessarily want a home as large and I got but it ticked all my boxes and was still in my price range.

You have a few pockets of retirees like in Temecula/Murietta and odd areas like Norco (Horsetown USA) where the people moved out here for specific features of the area, but for the most part the IE is filled with people who would move back if housing became affordable again in LA/OC.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Keyser S0ze posted:

Saratoga/Cupertino has the best weather. Even when it hits 90 it's back to 58 by 9pm and it rarely gets below 35 in the winter.

This is also why it costs $5,000 per square foot for a loving house. :suicide:

It was 111 on Tuesday in the good ol' Inland Empire :v:

I'm so glad I bought that pool from Walmart.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

My mother in law just saw this on the news and she exclaimed "Lots of companies going to move out of California now!"

I didn't want to try and explain that the types of businesses that pay minimum wage don't just "move out" of an area like that.

FCKGW
May 21, 2006

nachos posted:

How can someone say this when they live in a state where In-N-Out began doing business. Speaking of, doesn't their base pay start at $10/hr? Will they keep it at that level once it officially becomes minimum wage?

My wife worked at In-N-Out for several years. When she was there I think they started at $11 but then they did other sane things like, you know, raise the pay periodically with inflation. The bumped up everyone's pay, including starting, every couple years.

Also the manager of an In-N-Out store makes 6 figures

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FCKGW
May 21, 2006

Are you guys ready for the State of Jefferson?

quote:

Second county votes to secede from California

Along Interstate 5 near Yreka, a Northern California town of about 8,000 people, the roof of an old hay barn informs drivers in bold, black letters they have entered the "State of Jefferson."

For over 70 years, a group of citizens in Northern California and Southern Oregon have pushed to unite their rural counties and secede from their respective states, creating a new state following the small-government ideals allegedly professed by Thomas Jefferson.

On Tuesday, a second California county joined the growing movement. Modoc County supervisors voted 4-0 in favor of secession, following in the footsteps of neighboring Siskiyou County that made a similar decision earlier this month.

Modoc County Board Chairwoman Geri Byrne told Al Jazeera that public sentiment was strongly in favor of passing the resolution. In a packed public meeting of about 40 people, Byrne said only two people spoke against secession.

Her constituents, Byrne said, are "frustrated," because rural counties have "no voice in the state of California."

Supporters of secession say that urban California holds sway in the halls of Sacramento, where both legislative houses are elected proportionally. Since California's 33 rural counties make up only 9 percent of the total population, rural residents simply are not represented, Byrne said.

"People in LA have no clue what we face," Byrne said. "We don't tell people in Los Angeles how to manage crime, so why should they tell us how to farm potatoes?"

Liz Bowen, a member of the Jefferson Declaration Committee, said it takes six hours to drive through her state senator's district. Senate District 1, which includes Modoc and Siskiyou counties, covers 10 counties. In contrast, Los Angeles metro area has 18 Senate districts. Without influence in Sacramento, she said, "So many laws, rules and regulations have been placed on us that our freedom has been eroded."

Over the years, many rural residents have been frustrated by federal environmental laws restricting logging and other forestry activities. Byrne said becoming a state would finally allow them to push the federal government to alter the onerous restrictions on government-owned land.

Not everyone in Northern California, however, supports the proposed new state. Mark Lovelace, a district supervisor in nearby Humboldt County, said that the state of Jefferson "is a romantic idea," but that it's "not economically viable."

Rural California receives more money from the state than it provides. Lovelace said in the proposed new state, taxes would have to rise to make up the difference. Humboldt County, where a local meeting is set to discuss secession on Friday, has an unemployment rate of 8.5 percent, well above the national average of 7.3 percent. With the decline of the timber and mining industries, health care, schools and government now account for more jobs than logging and mining, according to The Associated Press.

The secessionist movement, Lovelace said, "is a cry for help, but there needs to be a reality check."

The goal of the secessionists is to get about 14 counties to vote in favor secession, Byrne said, and then head to California's legislature, which according to the U.S. Consitution has to approve the split. The U.S. Congress would also have to vote for such a move. No state has been severed since West Virginia split off during the Civil War.

Supporters admit the path to statehood is steep. Byrne said while "on paper, the state would work. Whether it could get through the legislature and Congress, that's another story."

Running a state is actually pretty easy guys. I'm not sure why most of these rural counties don't spin off into new states every week.

http://america.aljazeera.com/articles/2013/9/25/second-county-votestosecedefromcalifornia.html

The website is great too
http://jeffersonstate.com/
http://jeffersondeclaration.net/

FCKGW fucked around with this message at 18:40 on Sep 26, 2013

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