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Hello everyone, I made a post similar to this one in the “EUROPE MEGATHREAD OWNZONE” a few months back, and since then I’ve become even more anxiety filled about my upcoming move. I’ve decided to make this thread so I could organize all my questions (and hopefully some answers) into one place. If this kind of thread is not appropriate for here, let me know and I’ll close it. Okay so onto my story: My wife and I recently accepted jobs to work at Eidgenössische Technische Hochschule Zürich aka The Swiss Federal Institute of Technology Zürich. The issue is that I've literally never left the United States (or even the East Coast) and my wife is similarly sheltered except for a brief trip to Mexico once. I just recently got my passport and the two of us are thinking about travelling to Zürich to start looking for a place to live sometime in mid-August. Our actual work contract starts on October 1st, or 01.10.13 (that’s how you crazy Euros write it, right?) I have no idea what to expect in visiting a foreign country much less what to expect actually moving to one. I know this thing sounds like a hilariously sheltered goon being scared of the big bad world, but that's kind of how I'm feeling right now. It was hard enough trying to pick out an apartment for grad school when I only lived 4 hours away, I can only imagine how hard it will be when the apartments are on the other side of the planet. My own attempts to search websites detailing how to pick out an apartment leads to hilarious logic circles like: "In order to rent an apartment, you must present a Swiss residency permit." "In order to obtain a Swiss residency permit, you must present a Swiss work permit." "In order to obtain a Swiss work permit, you must present the clerk with a copy of your permanent address in Switzerland." "In order to obtain a permanent address in Switzerland, you must rent an apartment." "In order to rent an apartment, you must present a Swiss residency permit." "In order to obtain a Swiss residency permit, you must.........." Basically what I want to know if there is anyone that has knowledge of Switzerland and of Zürich in particular so that I can just start asking all the questions that keep popping up in our heads as we consider this big move. I'm obviously utilizing other resources right now, but sometimes it's easiest to just ask other goons about these kinds of things. Just so that this OP isn’t entirely me bitching, here are my short-term plans and assorted deadlines. -Get a passport (done). -August 1st, visit NYC and get my visa. -Visit Switzerland in mid-August, look for temporary housing I guess? -[insert magic here] -October 1st, start job. EDIT: Also, since apparently this matters, I’ll be working at the Central ETH campus instead of the North one…I think.
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Jul 8, 2013 18:22
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Well, you are lucky, because Switzerland, and especially Zurich, is the easiest place to move to from anywhere in the world. Honestly, if you are apprehensive of visiting / living in Switzerland, please don't go anywhere else ever.
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Jul 8, 2013 19:47
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oliwan posted:Well, you are lucky, because Switzerland, and especially Zurich, is the easiest place to move to from anywhere in the world. Honestly, if you are apprehensive of visiting / living in Switzerland, please don't go anywhere else ever. edit: what are you scared about? edit2: you have emailed someone (an HR person?) at the ETH about all this, right?
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Jul 8, 2013 19:50
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oliwan posted:Well, you are lucky, because Switzerland, and especially Zurich, is the easiest place to move to from anywhere in the world. Honestly, if you are apprehensive of visiting / living in Switzerland, please don't go anywhere else ever. You're kidding right? I've been told by multiple people that the entire thing is designed to be troublesome as heck. This is what a contact told me when I asked about renting a place in Zurich: quote:DOCUMENTS NEEDED WHEN APPLYING FOR A FLAT To rent a place in America I've required my name and a check written out with the deposit, and maybe a note saying where I lived before. It reads like half the stuff in that list is impossible for me to get unless I'm actually physically in Switzerland ahead of time and am paying to live in a hotel room. How do I just pick a few places from here and then visit a few to pick the one I want? I don't have any landlords anyway. I've been a homeowner for years, and nobody except myself or my wife are involved in my finances. I'm a grown adult, do I really need letters from my parents/neighbors? oliwan posted:edit: what are you scared about? I'm using a bit of hyperbole when I say that I'm scared. A better word would be overwhelmed. Both of my contacts with ETH have given me a little bit of info, but they both keep assuming that I already know a bunch of tiny stuff about how Switzerland works and thus leave important details out (see that entire circle of logic I posted about in the OP, how DO I get the permits to live there if I need to already live there to get them?). Some sources of my stress is stuff like how my entire "Welcome to ETH" pack was completely in German (including my work contract), and how my contacts response to me asking if there is an English version is basically, "Nope". EDIT: Also I guess I should point out that I don't have any "bosses" that are already there to contact. We are going to be making a new lab within the University, so everyone else going with us is completely in the dark as well. There isn't just some lab tech or post-doc I can contact to get my hand held. Anonymous Zebra fucked around with this message at 20:24 on Jul 8, 2013 |
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Jul 8, 2013 20:13
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#1 and #5 are indeed technically true in your list, however the Einwohnermeldeamt usually hands out provisional residency permits with your work address. I wouldn't sweat the bureaucratic stuff too much because the Swiss clerks are quite a bit less strict than their reputation would suggest and do have the liberty to apply common sense to a problem that can't be solved with paragraphs. Two big issues will be: - Getting an apartment. The market in Zürich is really tight and you might actually not find anything before your work starts. Definitely have some form of credit report with you, ideally a letter from your last landlord saying what a nice person you are and you'll need to be able to put down three month's worth of rent when you sign the contract. There's always backup student apartments and monthly hotels around though. - Getting a bank account. All banks are superscared of the US right now so the only one that will take you is the Swiss Post. In general remember that this is still Switzerland and you're not going to starve on the streets even if you gently caress everything up. The realistic worst case scenario is that you have to live in a small dorm style room for a few months.
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Jul 8, 2013 20:37
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Thank you. Another question.peak debt posted:Definitely have some form of credit report with you, ideally a letter from your last landlord saying what a nice person you are and you'll need to be able to put down three month's worth of rent when you sign the contract. Okay, so I don't have a landlord. I've been a homeowner for quite a long time. I can definitely get a credit report, but will a piece of paper in English be okay? I was originally told that "everyone speaks English", but since then I've encountered a lot of issues with people only speaking German or wanting all the documentation in German. I'll be back with more questions later, once my wife gets home.
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Jul 8, 2013 20:46
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Legal documents will need to be in one of the four official languages, but the credit report is an informal paper just for your landlord to prove you aren't a deadbeat. Zürich is extremely international, if a landlord cuts out all foreigners from renting by demanding only German documents he just screws himself out of a potential customers, I'd be really surprised if you have a lot of problems with that. If you do need a translation you can always get that done here as long as you have the paper with you. I'd still try to get in touch with the ETH though. Even if the team is newly founded the department will definitely exist (which one is it, by the way?) and should be able to give you a few pointers. Having leads on open apartments is worth a lot and just a couple of addresses of former faculty that are soon leaving might save you a lot of work. peak debt fucked around with this message at 21:06 on Jul 8, 2013 |
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Jul 8, 2013 21:04
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I don't want to be super specific right now. But essentially a professor at ETH is retiring and a professor over here in the US has been hired to take over their place within the department (as I understand it, each professor is a mini-department in themselves with lots of post-docs/researchers working for them). The newly-hired professor knows my wife and I and is taking us along with them as they move their whole lab to ETH. The newly-hired professor has also chosen not to keep any of the researchers currently working for the old professor and is completely staffing their lab with people here from the US. I know all these people, and they are all just as in the dark as me. The professor in the meantime has completely withdrawn from contact (basically prepping for their own move) leaving my wife and I to basically tie things up here and THEN move ourselves to Zurich. That's what I mean when I say that there isn't an established lab to contact and get help from.
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Jul 8, 2013 21:11
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I'm in the same boat as the OP, although I am moving to Italy for only a year. I am also having a difficult time teasing out the nuances of the Italian bureaucracy from the HR people at the institute. I am fully expecting to live in a furnished room with or without roommates. But first, I have to stay within the country for at least 7 days before I start work. For this, they recommended a hostel/hotel/B&B. Then, when I start work, I will go to the local police station (Questura) with my HR contact and obtain a residency permit. Then, I can hopefully move into a flat/room.
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Jul 8, 2013 21:24
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Just to reiterate everything peak_debt said, getting an apartment in Zurich is really difficult. Demand vastly outstrips supply, and owners typically can pick their tenants. So, respond to listings quickly, and make sure you are presentable at the showing. You may be best off finding a sublet (airbnb maybe?) or short-term serviced apartment for the first few weeks/months, since you can probably sort that out from the US. I would suggest getting in touch with people at ETH (I know you don't have a group, but there are presumably admin etc), to see if there is some sort of university housing mailing list -- you may be able to find a professor going on sabbatical, a grad student/postdoc who is leaving, or a student going on an internship. Paperwork in Switzerland is indeed overwhelming. Just be patient, and accept that seemingly simple things will take time. Some "cultural shock" type things you may experience: - Supermarkets/grocery stores are shut on Sunday, and often in the evenings too. The main exception to the Sunday rule is the one underneath the Hauptbahnhof. - Stuff is more expensive than in the US. Especially clothes. - This may be obvious, but remember that the voltage is different from the US. Cameras, phones, laptops etc have built-in transformers and only need a converter plug, but most electronic goods (TVs, hairdryers, stereos, etc) do not. You can buy transformers, but I've generally heard bad things about them -- I've found it easiest in such circumstances to just buy new (or new-to-me) things. - There are a lot of seemingly arbitrary rules which can be very frustrating -- such as restrictions on when you can do laundry, play music, flush toilets... - The chocolate is awesome. Especially Sprungli. I found this forum: http://www.englishforum.ch pretty useful when preparing to live in Zurich (I lived there for about half a year, about 5 years ago).
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Jul 8, 2013 21:57
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lumbergill posted:Just to reiterate everything peak_debt said, getting an apartment in Zurich is really difficult. Demand vastly outstrips supply, and owners typically can pick their tenants. So, respond to listings quickly, and make sure you are presentable at the showing. You may be best off finding a sublet (airbnb maybe?) or short-term serviced apartment for the first few weeks/months, since you can probably sort that out from the US. I would suggest getting in touch with people at ETH (I know you don't have a group, but there are presumably admin etc), to see if there is some sort of university housing mailing list -- you may be able to find a professor going on sabbatical, a grad student/postdoc who is leaving, or a student going on an internship. The housing situation is going to be a big stumbling block, and you may be stuck living in a dorm room for quite some time. I hope you have a lot of savings built up or a very good relocation plan, because here is what you will have to bring to the table at the very beginning: Typical rental deposit: 3 months without utilities (although in Germany, this can be paid in three installments, I don't know Switzerland). You might be able to post a bond for this, though. Typical real estate agent fee (yes, they have these even for rentals): 1-2 months rent without utilities plus sales tax (8% in Switzerland). First months' rent: 1 month's rent with utilities (obviously). Need to be paid before you move in. So you will need possibly six months rent worth of cash in advance. Now in a 'normal' place this might not be too bad, but you're moving to the richest, most undersupplied housing market on earth. A two bedroom could easily run you $2000 a month, so you'll need to bring $12000 potentially just to get moved in. You can get your deposit back (much easier than in the USA) but the money will be tied up for a long while. I would get with the ETH quickly and see if they have anything for you, it will most likely be something small and far from the city but it will be much easier to handle the paperwork. Also, I hope you negotiated your pay package based on Swiss standards. The average salary in Zurich is like $6500 a month and there are politicians pushing for a minimum wage of $4000 a month. That is not a typo. My experience is in Germany and Luxembourg however, and Switzerland might vary a little bit. Roichlem fucked around with this message at 05:41 on Jul 9, 2013 |
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Jul 9, 2013 05:39
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WARNING you should not go to Switzerland before you have your Swiss visa in your passport, are you 100% sure you will get it right away in NYC on 1 Aug?Your visa will also not be valid until 1st of October 2013, which means no one official will rent to you before that. So, if you go in August, you'll either need an under the table sublet (possible but not easy to get) or get ready to spend 6 weeks living in a hostel. AFTER GETTING THIS, moving to Switzerland is pretty easy. Basically everyone you interact with will speak English. I assume your German either sucks or is non-existent. As other people said, the second biggest hurdle will be money, so I hope you and your wife have at least $12k saved up, preferably more like $20k. Because you'll easily spend $10k in your first month. OTOH you'll be making at least $12k/month, so all your hard-won US savings are going to look like a pittance after a year in Switzerland. People have said housing is loving impossible, and it is, but there are also always temporary, furnished apartment complexes on a month-by-month basis that you can rent pretty easily. The prices will be abysmally high (even for Switzerland) but you won't need a letter of recommendation and won't have to roll two yahtzees in a row in order to get the place. Then you can relax and look for an apartment on your own terms. In my experience (Lausanne) these places don't ask for the three month deposit in advance either. The "you must have a residence permit to get an apartment" and "you must have an apartment to get a residence permit" is a Catch-22 that everyone loves to quote about Switzerland, but actually just having the paperwork to show you applied for the permit, and just having some temporary address (including work address) is fine for the authorities. As someone else said, the Swiss bureaucracy is less rigid than you might expect (it is very rigid, but it is not absolutely stone-set; a lot like the US actually but usually more friendly).
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Jul 9, 2013 07:57
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Roichlem posted:
I only know one, very lazy, couple who used a real estate agent to find an apartment. It wasn't honestly all that much faster or easier than doing it yourself, and the price is insane (1 month's rent, so like ~$1500--$2000 for people I work with). You just have to be prepared to apply for like ten places. I got my first two apartments via sublet, and my third apartment via official rental, but I'm also with a Swiss girl so YMMV for the official rental. Maybe I had an easy time because of that.
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Jul 9, 2013 08:00
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OK, I live in Zurich at the moment and have done for the last 6 years. There is no need to get stressed out or worried about the move in the slightest. The hardest thing for people to understand is that you are moving to a different country, there will be a lot of differences, that is the fun bit of moving, don't let it get on top of you and spend your entire time slamming the Swiss system because it isn't the US system. Ok housing: Finding an apartment in Zurich can be a pain in the bum. It is unlikely that you will be able to rent anything until you are in the country because you will not have all the documentation - bank account - job contract etc. You best bet is to look at serviced apartment as already mentioned. Something like these guys http://www.cityappartements.ch/e/ Also this gives you time to find where you want to live. Otherwise see if you can find a cheap hotel to stay or if someone will put you up temporarily. This is pretty much how everyone starts in Zurich. When looking for an apartment Start here http://www.homegate.ch/ and http://immo.search.ch/ If you stay in the centre of Zurich you are going to pay a lot more money for a smaller place and the competition will be higher to actually get something. If you move out to Dübendorf, Uster, Bassersdorf, Affoltern, Thalwill etc. you will pay less, get a bigger place and hopefully find something sooner. Travel time may be longer, although this is not a given. Zurich is small and travelling by S-bahn(train) is quicker than tram Go here https://www.zvv.ch and look at the train times for places you might live. Living in Zurich is fun though, just don't automatically assume you have to live in the city. Don't bother getting an estate agent, find the house yourself, it isn't difficult. You will have to pay a deposit of between 1 and 3 months + the first months rent when you get an apartment. If you have the money fine, otherwise ask your work for a loan, or you bank, or there are insurance schemes where the company will pay your deposit and you pay them back - I forget the name, ask me if you need this info. Don't worry about a reference from your last landlord/whatever. A note from your employer, proof of income, residence permit etc will be fine. Language: Start now with Rosetta stone or whatever you fancy and then register yourself with http://www.klubschule.ch/ or which ever language school is convenient, when you arrive in Zurich. You will probably not need to speak a lot of German in Zurich but it sure helps to be able to read it. Also do not take German lessons in English - it may seem obvious but the German lessons should all be in German. What to bring: My advice is to bring very little with you, certainly leave crockery and furniture behind. Save the money and spend a day going through the hell of IKEA. You can buy yourself a brand new house for not a lot of money. This is a vocab list I made when I first moved to help me understand the rental adverts Angebote: offered or available (as opposed to Gesuche, or searching) Wohnung, whg = room Bad, bader = bath, baths Küche = kitchen Schlafzimmer = bedroom Wohnzimmer, WZ = living room Balkon, Garten, Dachterässe = balcony, garden, roof deck möblierte = furnished neu renovierte = newly renovated gross (grosser, grossem) = large klein = small hell, helle = bright offen, offene = open ruhig, ruhige = quiet schön, schöne = pretty zentral = central, can also mean noisy Kuhlshrank = refridgerator Rauchen = smoking parkplatz = parking space ÖV = public transport WC = water closet (half bath) WG = shared apartment EG = ground floor (1st floor) OB = any floor above ground (2nd floor in US = 1st floor here!) HB = hauptbanhof (main train station) Also the adverts will advertise the size of the place by number of rooms, this is basically a bit finger in the air. It is assumed that all flats have toilets and kitchens so these aren't counted..however an extra large hallway might be counted. Sometimes you will see 0.5 of a room. This can mean anything, I have rented 3 apartments in 6 years and I have no loving idea how the room thing works. You will also get a bomb shelter in pretty much every house, enjoy that. PlantHead fucked around with this message at 15:23 on Jul 9, 2013 |
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Jul 9, 2013 10:50
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Saladman posted:I only know one, very lazy, couple who used a real estate agent to find an apartment. It wasn't honestly all that much faster or easier than doing it yourself, and the price is insane (1 month's rent, so like ~$1500--$2000 for people I work with). You just have to be prepared to apply for like ten places. I got my first two apartments via sublet, and my third apartment via official rental, but I'm also with a Swiss girl so YMMV for the official rental. Maybe I had an easy time because of that. As I mentioned I only know Germany and Luxembourg and triangulate Switzerland from there. It's also possible to get non-agent apartments in both countries but much more difficult (Luxembourg is very difficult for non-agent apartments and has a similar housing situation to Switzerland). Kudos to Switzerland for using a less screwed-up system.
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Jul 9, 2013 17:50
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Paying for a rental refer is quite rare in Switzerland, it's pretty much only done for rich executives who come work here with their high-maintenance wife and kids. What happens much more often is that people jump the line through word-of-mouth by directly taking over the apartment from somebody else before that guy puts up the ad. That way the other guy saves himself 300 bux for the ad, plus a lot of trouble needing to do 20+ apartment tours for complete strangers, and you get an easy ride to a new place to live. That's why I would really recommend trying to get in touch with ETH, a simple mobile phone referral from those guys might be worth a month of rent.
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Jul 9, 2013 20:35
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Thank you very much guys. These posts have been very helpful. I figured that moving in was going to be very difficult, but you guys breaking it down helps me put it in perspective. A small question about banks. So someone mentioned Swiss banks are not liking US citizens or something. What is that all about? My wife mentioned that UBS has branches here in the US and originally planned to open an account here and then use that account in Switzerland. Is that crazy? They haven't replied to her emails, so we weren't sure whether that was even possible. As for money, a lot of our wealth is in bonds/our house and stuff, are you actually serious about $20,000 cash? I talked to my bank and they said my bank card should work at ATMs (and can be swiped) while in Switzerland, so can I just show potential landlords my US bank statement to show that I can pay? Thanks again for the helpful answers thus far.
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Jul 10, 2013 00:17
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Thank you very much guys. These posts have been very helpful. I figured that moving in was going to be very difficult, but you guys breaking it down helps me put it in perspective. Account portability between different countries is entirely bank-dependent, but it is unlikely you could open a UBS account in the USA and make use of local services (other than ATM withdrawals) in Switzerland. Because Switzerland (like Luxembourg) does not have a tax information sharing agreement with the United States, there is a very large amount of paperwork and reporting involved for US clients of Swiss banks. I think the stories of applicants being rejected applies more to private banking than opening a savings account, however. We are very serious about the need to have $20,000 cash. I moved to Germany (probably half the cost of Zuerich) three years ago by myself and living a student lifestyle. I spent about $7,000 before I starting getting paychecks. In the end I got a lot of the money back (deposits, moving costs etc), but it was a drain early on. My apartment was only E510 a month but that meant paying E2,040 at the very beginning, then you need to buy a bus pass (E69), probably a bicycle (used E100), and this list gets long in a hurry. Almost everything requires payment up front and if your paperwork is delayed because of permit issues you might not get paid for 2 months (it depends of the situation). You could have a very organized employer who gives you some advance money or covers some costs directly, but I wouldn't bet on it.
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Jul 10, 2013 05:59
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Roichlem posted:I think the stories of applicants being rejected applies more to private banking than opening a savings account, however. Yes, this is exactly it. You can open up a savings account at Credit Suisse or UBS or wherever (but in Switzerland, as Roichlem said, probably NOT really the 'same bank' in the US, but I don't know, I only have Credit Suisse and Post Finance accounts and neither has US branches AFAIK). Also be aware that they will not give you a credit card or even a useable debit card. I still have a bank account in the US I wire money to occasionally so I can do bullshit like "buy plane tickets" that Switzerland won't let me do because I'm a US Citizen. gently caress Credit Suisse. You won't need $20k, but you'll certainly need $10k, and having $20k will give you some peace of mind and space to breathe. It's true as someone mentioned you can get "insurance" to pay for your housing deposit, but it'll cost you more in the long run (I forget what it is, but not trivial over the long term). As mentioned, you will get most of this back (I've never heard of anyone not getting their deposit back in full or at least 90%+) but it will be tied up for a long time. Enjoy the terrible interest you get on it. (Savings accounts also get horrendous interest rates here, FYI, basically not worth it at all.) E: Are you planning on keeping your house? How long are you going to stay in Switzerland? This sounds kind of crazy to me unless you plan 100% on moving back to the same city you live in now, which since you're academics, sounds like a not-exactly-guaranteed prospect. Saladman fucked around with this message at 08:04 on Jul 10, 2013 |
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Jul 10, 2013 08:01
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I don't know the specific details for American citizens but generally it works like this. When you arrive go to a bank (don't automatically go to Credit Suuisse or UBS, most Swiss I know don't use these banks.) You will sign up for an account and will then get a maestro card (can't be used online) and e-banking details. You need to show where you are living (at that moment) and your work contract. Once you have your residence permit - hopefully a B - you can apply for a credit card. You could have problems as a US Citizen because the US IRS is having a big disagreement with the Swiss Government/banks. They want all banking details of US citizens, in Switzerland, to be given to them so they can charge the appropriate tax. This goes against the Swiss banking secrecy laws. Most banks can't be bothered to deal with the hassles, so they don't really want US citizens business. At least that is my impression of the entire mess. Basically I would therefore try Post Finance and ZKB banks first. They don't have branches in the States and so won't really care as much about the IRS problems. A colleague of mine who is also unfortunately a yank, says he banks at Raiffeisen and had no problems opening an account there 3 years ago.
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Jul 10, 2013 09:40
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PlantHead posted:
You [not you-you, I mean an American citizen] can apply and then get rejected. I've been rejected from Credit Suisse and Post Finance within the last year. I've been here for almost 4 years and my credit is fine and I make just under the average Swiss salary so I don't know what the gently caress.
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Jul 10, 2013 12:47
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I interned for two different Swiss companies, and on both occasions the company had a relationship with a specific bank branch where it was significantly easier to get a bank account. I wouldn't be surprised if ETH has something similar. Once you have a bank account, I would suggest opening an account with one of the FX brokers to transfer money from the US to Switzerland.
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Jul 10, 2013 13:57
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OP - I have nothing to contribute except to say congratulations. I know that this type of move is stressful but it will be the experience of a lifetime for both of you. I always enjoyed my forays south into Switzerland from the fatherland.
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Jul 10, 2013 18:33
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I work at ETH myself and, as people have reiterated, finding apartments is going to be a bitch. ETH does have an internal housing search website (http://www.wohnen.ethz.ch/index_EN) that has a slightly better response rate than public places and more English speakers, but don't count on anyone renting you a place unless you come see it in person beforehand. Depending on your lab, your future labmates may be able to help you find something. Getting a place from someone who's moving out makes the whole process much, much easier. Don't count on Human Resources to do it, as far as I know they don't care. Otherwise, your best bet is to rent a short-term apartment / cheap hotel while you apartment hunt. Another possibility is to get a temporary place from some ETH person who's on exchange for 6-12 months. Those usually get posted on ETH's housing website (see above). Larger flats are easier to come by than studios or flat shares, if only because there are fewer applicants. Also, places outside Zurich are easier (and cheaper) to get; I lived in Dubendorf for a year before moving to central Zurich. It does help a lot though if you speak or at least write German. While you can expect everyone at ETH to speak English and most people in Zurich speak English, my experience with housing agents has been that many of them won't put in the effort since they already get so many applications. Also MAKE SURE YOU PROVIDE REFERENCES. Since you're coming from abroad they probably won't phone your previous landlord, but they can and *will* call your new boss (or their secretary) to check up on you. Get a nice reference letter from your previous landlord too. In my experience any landlord will call your previous landlord first, then your boss if they have the energy for it. Everyone else from Switzerland has already posted on the topic pretty extensively, but let me know if you're wondering anything specific regarding ETH or if you think of other general questions. I can also offer you and your wife drinks in Zurich sometime after you arrive if you get bored. When I moved, I was bored a lot for the first month when I didn't know anyone. 
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Jul 12, 2013 09:35
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So here is a temporary place where the tenant has said the place is available but we MUST rent for 6 months. Here are the details: 50m2 2 rooms, located on Hammerstrasse in 8008 Zurich (district 8) Close to public transport, 20 min from ETH. Furnished with private washing machine. 3rd floor walkup Rent: 2000 CHF/month (includes electricity, what about water? Other utilities? Are these my responsibility?) Other fees: 80 CHF for land-line with high speed internet Deposit: 2000 CHF Must rent from 1.09.2013 to 1.03.2014 (6 months). Current tenant says if we could find someone to take over the place before the end of our lease then that is okay, but she would really prefer to rent to someone who is going to be there the whole six months. Pets allowed: unknown – current tenant has to check with landlord (we have a cat we want to bring over once we get our own lease in a non-temporary place). Close to Coop grocery store. My question is basically, should I take this because it might be hard to find anything else? We are waiting to hear back from some other temporary places (companies with groups of apartments that won’t know until the end of the month, also ETH housing, which has not replied about some of their apartments yet). A couple of others have already told us that the apartment we were interested in is rented. We are looking for a short term furnished place that doesn’t require a ton of paperwork. The major downside to this place is that it is small (less than half of our current house) and we are not sure that we want to commit to living in a shoebox for six months.
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Jul 13, 2013 17:27
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Location's decent, you've got the #11 tram going directly from there to Bellevue and Central. Usually rent includes water/electricity, but you'd have to discuss with the landlord about TV/Internet/heating. Sometimes winter heating costs extra. To be honest, don't expect to get a place in Zurich itself for much cheaper. Here are some of the numbers I've experienced, for comparison: - 15 m2 room, 8 km out of Zurich, outside the tram network: 750 CHF/month - 25 m2 studio, close to ETH: 1200 CHF/month - 30 m2 small flat, close to ETH: 1500 CHF/month - 60 m2 flat, not very close to ETH: 2500 CHF/month - 70 m2 flat, dead center of Zurich: 3000 CHF/month All of these except the first one were unfurnished. It *is* possible to get cheaper stuff, but you either have to know the person or rent from someone who's out of town temporarily and isn't planning to get market price on it. My friend who was desperate (arrived in town with no accommodations arranged) actually rented a room in Uster, which is about 15 km out of town, for about 1000 CHF/month, but he *was* getting ripped off.
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Jul 13, 2013 17:48
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Money isn't really an issue. What we were really wondering was if getting temporary housing is so tough that we should jump on a place that requires us to commit for 6 months even though we intend to try and move to a more permanent address faster than that.
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Jul 13, 2013 18:22
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That's a pretty good deal. I would take it, presuming there arent any hidden issues like a bar in the ground floor. But district 8 is generally a quite nice place, even a bit posh, so there shouldnt be any problems. Just fyi check that whoever you are talking to actually has the right to that place before wiring any deposit money because you occasionally get scams where people offer up apartments they dont own just to get the deposit money. But a 20 min tram / 10 min bike ride to work is nice and you'll have a decent amount of time to look for a permanent place without having to stay in a hostel in the meantime
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Jul 15, 2013 12:57
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peak debt posted:Just fyi check that whoever you are talking to actually has the right to that place before wiring any deposit money because you occasionally get scams where people offer up apartments they dont own just to get the deposit money. Yeah, absolutely this. Don't give any deposit money to a subletter unless the actual landlord knows you're staying there. If they just want rent (but want a month in advance) make sure you have someone you know check it out in person just to make sure it's not some Nigerian online scam.
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Jul 15, 2013 13:10
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How do you usually check that kind of thing. Normally I'd just tour the place and assume that if the person has the keys that they have the right along with there actually being paperwork (in the US I mean). Obviously I can't check this place out in person, or meet with the woman until several months from now, so how else do you check? I looked her up and she is apparently a real person that owns her own advertising business. Are there other internet detective options I'm not aware of? We are going to take the place, as long as this doesn't turn out to be a scam.
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Jul 15, 2013 13:29
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Ask her who the managing company is (verwalter in german) it's most likely a large company (wincasa or livit or one of a half dozen others) then phone those up to verify the place is up for rent. If the deposit needs to be sent over western union it's obviously a scam if it's to be sent by bank wire to an established company it's obviously not. I think the offer is honest though since a scammer would probably answer a question about pets being allowed with a definitive yes.
peak debt fucked around with this message at 17:29 on Jul 15, 2013 |
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Jul 15, 2013 14:07
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peak debt posted:Ask her who the managing company is (verwalter in german) it's most likely a large company (wincasa or livit or one of a half dozen others) then phone those up to verify the place is up for rent. If the deposit needs to be sent over western union it's obviously a scam if it's to be sent by bank wire to an established company it's obviously not. I think the offer is honest though since a scammer would probably answer a question about pets being allowed with a definitive yes. Yeah, it also doesn't sound like a scammer because it's a reasonable rent and offer. Scammers advertise like 200 m^2 apartments in central Geneva for $800/month and nonsense like that. Also it's always some Reverend JP Blusterworth who's going on a mission in Africa. (I've seen quite a few of these "offers" in Switzerland.) The concern I'd have is not that she's a scammer, but that she doesn't have the right to sublet; i.e., you should make sure that the landlord won't get pissed and try and throw you out because you're not the leasee. I've never actually heard of this happening in Switzerland, but best to be on one's toes before sending out $6k. I sublet twice (my first three years here) and gave the deposit to the official leasee and got it back, but both times I notified the rental agency that I was moving in. Neither time did they care, and the second time they apparently never even processed the paperwork, which I found after I moved out and it took ages to get the next guy officially in and to get my deposit back (six months! but whatever, got 100% back).
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Jul 16, 2013 09:40
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Thanks for the answers so far guys. So, we contacted the secretary at ETH who is answering questions for us and she apparently went and called up the woman behind the apartment (and set up an appointment to look at the place herself), obviously I owe the secretary a lot of chocolate (or whatever currency you Swiss use for favors). I any case, she claimed that the woman sounded kind of mean and that we'll basically be living in this woman's home while she is gone for six months and that it might be a real hassle if she is a tightass (those were not her exact words). So in the meantime we are considering a few other options. We started looking at places that are kind of like long-stay pre-furnished apartments and rooms. I was wondering if you guys could tell me if these places are in nice areas? I'm aware that there might not be a "wrong side of the tracks" in Zurich, but I'm just checking. Here are the places: http://www.aw-immo.ch/de/10_angebot/detail.htm?region=zhs&exclobjtyp=9%2c91&sort=preis_flaeche&sortdir=up&id=5442 http://www.aw-immo.ch/de/10_angebot/detail.htm?region=zhs&exclobjtyp=9%2c91&sort=preis_flaeche&sortdir=up&id=5509 http://www.aw-immo.ch/de/10_angebot/detail.htm?region=zhs&exclobjtyp=9%2c91&sort=preis_flaeche&sortdir=up&id=5508 Thank you again for all your help!
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Jul 16, 2013 17:50
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http://www.stadt-zuerich.ch/content/dam/stzh/prd/Deutsch/Statistik/Publikationsdatenbank/analysen/A_001_2008.pdf The top map on page 28 is pretty much a map of how nice the areas are. Note that the prices quoted are hopelessly out of date they have risen by like 20% the last 7 years, but the relative comparison is still valid. I would avoid district 4, it being a party town it's impossible to get any sleep during the weekends, but other than that the differences aren't big. Definitely check the travel times for public transport and biking/walking on Google Maps though. As mentioned above you might also want to look just outside the city borders especially in the northeast as those places are still quite easy to reach and are cheaper/easier to get than a city apartment. peak debt fucked around with this message at 19:37 on Jul 16, 2013 |
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Jul 16, 2013 19:28
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Someone told me that our lack of German language proficiency would make living outside the city borders very hard. That's why we've been hesitant thus far. Is that the case?
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Jul 17, 2013 01:17
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Someone told me that our lack of German language proficiency would make living outside the city borders very hard. That's why we've been hesitant thus far. Is that the case? That is rubbish, unless you are planning to move all the way to Schweiz where the people have webbed feet and even then you would have little trouble. Zurich doesn't have any bad areas. It has areas that are less nice. As already mentioned Langstrasse area and around Escher-Wyss platz are probably areas to avoid if you don't want to live near bars. The links you provided are ok. Oerlikon is a working area that used to be largely industrial and has now become largely residential. Getting into town on the no.14 tram though will take some time. The last place is pretty much in the middle of town and would be fine, I would chose this one for convenience and location. The only thing I would say is that 2 room apartment will be tiny and have only 1 bedroom and a kitchen usually combined with a lounge/dining room. When we first moved we used this company http://www.cityappartements.ch/e/ They allowed pets and allowed us to stay for 6 weeks (It took us 5 weeks to find an apartment to rent) Also have a look here https://www.ums.ch/ Most seem to be a min of 3 months which is a shame but you might have some luck. Another thing to remember. When you arrive you have to register with the Gemeinde\kreis where you are living. You need to do this within 8 days and will have to pay for it. When you find a place to live it will probably be in a different Gemeinde\kreis. You will now need to de-register yourself and register yourself at the new Gemeinde\kreis. All of this will cost you money - welcome to Switzerland. PlantHead fucked around with this message at 12:21 on Jul 17, 2013 |
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Jul 17, 2013 09:10
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Double post
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Jul 17, 2013 12:20
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So, some good news! My wife and I managed to find and make reservations at a temporary living building for two months starting in September. We can cancel the reservations at any point before 7 days of the start date, so we can now relax a little bit and search for a permanent place without freaking out about not having a place to stay once we get there. Okay, so now for my next random question. What do I do about a phone? I've owned the same (Verizon) cell phone for the last 5 years. Yes, it's a very old phone, it's not even a smart phone. I know that I'm going to have to toss my precious little phone, but I'm not exactly sure what to do next? I've been told that American phones don't work in Europe, so will I need to buy a new phone when I get to Zurich? Will I be able to use that new phone anywhere in Europe/when I take trips back to the US? I am trying to muddle my way through all this with the help of Google, but you guys explained the housing stuff so well that hopefully I can get a few more good answers from everyone.
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Jul 19, 2013 18:49
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The phone may work in Europe, but you would get massive roaming fees with your old provider. When you get to Zurich, just get a local subscription or prepaid. You can get a new phone or you can just buy a SIM card and stick it into your old phone. That should work, though I recommend getting a new phone - you can get them pretty cheap. You'll be charged a certain amount for domestic calls and a larger amount when you're outside Switzerland (roaming fees). I've used my Swiss phone to make calls in Europe, Japan, and the Middle East, so it should definitely work for your US visits. Whether to get subscription or prepaid depends on how much you plan to be calling. I've stuck to prepaid simply because I don't make enough phone calls to justify the (relatively high) monthly subscription fees. Others may have different opinions.
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Jul 19, 2013 19:41
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Okay, so now for my next random question. What do I do about a phone? I've owned the same (Verizon) cell phone for the last 5 years. Yes, it's a very old phone, it's not even a smart phone. I know that I'm going to have to toss my precious little phone, but I'm not exactly sure what to do next? I've been told that American phones don't work in Europe, so will I need to buy a new phone when I get to Zurich? Will I be able to use that new phone anywhere in Europe/when I take trips back to the US? I am trying to muddle my way through all this with the help of Google, but you guys explained the housing stuff so well that hopefully I can get a few more good answers from everyone. Your ancient Verizon phone will not work at all (even with roaming), but generally American phones do work fine in Europe; pretty much everything except Verizon non-smartphones will work (which are on CDMA-only). Basically you need a phone which has GSM -- which is all of them that have SIM cards. You can just buy it once you're over here though, and yes it will work back in the US. With insane roaming fees. You'll want to buy an unlocked phone (i.e. off contract) so that you can swap in the SIM cards between Switzerland / elsewhere in Europe / the US. Unfortunately there're no good-and-cheap international SIM cards, and every country in Europe is roaming with respect to other countries, so it pretty much sucks to travel around here if you're used to using your phone everywhere in the US. Which, since you don't have a smartphone, is probably not going to be an issue for you and you probably won't notice or care. Keep in mind that, at least in Lausanne, to get cable Internet requires you to also get a subscription phone (SwissCom, hurray).
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Jul 19, 2013 20:01
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