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Geek U.S.A. posted:My god, those sprites are awful. Did they run out of budget halfway through development or something? I think I'm going to stick to replaying Nocturne until Persona 5 comes out. If you don't think unicycle demon with mouths on his claws is hilarious you have no soul.
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Jul 11, 2013 02:43
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I'll definitely be picking this up, though it's going to be a while before I get around to playing it as my DS/3DS/PSP backlog is huge. Sounds like the NG+ system is very robust this time around. I loved Nocturne dearly but I couldn't bring myself to play through again right away to see the other endings; maybe it will be different this time around.
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Jul 11, 2013 02:45
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I don't understand why they'd take a step back from 3D battles, I know the DS games pretty much had to have sprites, but going from a good looking 3D world into first person battles with static sprites just seems really jarring.
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Jul 11, 2013 02:46
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Reive posted:I don't understand why they'd take a step back from 3D battles, I know the DS games pretty much had to have sprites, but going from a good looking 3D world into first person battles with static sprites just seems really jarring. Well, there are a few obvious reasons. Space concerns are a big one. Sprites take up a lot less space and thus mean you can include more demons on a cart. Budget is another thing. the Nocturne models are getting really long in the tooth and Atlus probably doesn't have the budget to redo new modelwork for all (x) number of demons. You can really notice this even in P$: The Golden where some of the Persona look a lot worse than others, and even then the Persona models just do a single animation and then vanish. Those are probably the big ones. SMT games are not big budget and they tend to have to stretch to work with what they have.
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Jul 11, 2013 02:52
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Reive posted:I don't understand why they'd take a step back from 3D battles, I know the DS games pretty much had to have sprites, but going from a good looking 3D world into first person battles with static sprites just seems really jarring. The sprites have considerable animations, they're not just static. I think it was a stylistic choice, but making like 400 models, half of which are new, would be pretty ball-busting for a company as strapped for cash as Atlus.
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Jul 11, 2013 02:52
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Whatever who cares. Does this game still have achievements like Strange Journey?
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Jul 11, 2013 02:52
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ThePhenomenalBaby posted:Whatever who cares. Does this game still have achievements like Strange Journey? Seriously, this is a stupid discussion. It's a series in which every single installment but one had sprites, if you don't like sprites fine but complaining about it doesn't really contribute anything to the thread. Trust me when you play it you'll hardly notice, and the sprites are very nicely-detailed, especially during close-ups when negotiating with them or whatnot. There aren't any achievements, sadly. Also this new DLC boss, holy poo poo.  I have no idea how possibly to beat it within the restrictions you get. I refuse to believe you need DLC-only skills to kill it, there must be some sort of trick. Unless the secret is a BS gimmick like one of the earlier DLC bosses this looks like it's going to be a nice fight that requires some serious thought to win.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:07
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Genpei Turtle posted:Seriously, this is a stupid discussion. It's a series in which every single installment but one had sprites, if you don't like sprites fine but complaining about it doesn't really contribute anything to the thread. Trust me when you play it you'll hardly notice, and the sprites are very nicely-detailed, especially during close-ups when negotiating with them or whatnot. What are the restrictions?
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Jul 11, 2013 03:09
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ImpAtom posted:What are the restrictions? You have to beat it in 10 rounds, and it looks like it absorbs everything but Almighty. The most powerful Almighty skills do maybe 100 damage to it, and breaking down and using demons with Pierce skills (which you can only get in DLC) I've done over 10K damage to it and it's still not even in the red. Also it has a skill that hits everyone as if it hit their weakness, even if they don't have any weaknesses.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:14
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Is Mara in this?
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Jul 11, 2013 03:18
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MinionOfCthulhu posted:Is Mara in this? Yup. He's the highest-level of whatever his race was, I forget.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:19
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Genpei Turtle posted:You have to beat it in 10 rounds, and it looks like it absorbs everything but Almighty. The most powerful Almighty skills do maybe 100 damage to it, and breaking down and using demons with Pierce skills (which you can only get in DLC) I've done over 10K damage to it and it's still not even in the red. That does sound pretty interesting. It sounds like there's got to be some gimmick to it, especially if it's able to just exploit weaknesses at will.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:24
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Gamma Nerd posted:The sprites have considerable animations, they're not just static. I think it was a stylistic choice, but making like 400 models, half of which are new, would be pretty ball-busting for a company as strapped for cash as Atlus. Every trailer I've seen so far made them seem static, if they are well animated then I can appreciate that.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:25
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ImpAtom posted:That does sound pretty interesting. It sounds like there's got to be some gimmick to it, especially if it's able to just exploit weaknesses at will. It's unusual though because it's really slow. It has 6 Press Turns and attacks only once or twice a round. The first few moves always do nothing, like "Move slowly," "Aim carefully," "Clench Fist" before it finally tries to punch you. So far I've tried the Almighty ammo in Ginza, (does 40 damage a pop) the do-extra-damage-to-certain-alignment skills, status ailments, (don't work) buffs, (just negates them) reflect spells, (mass Almightys you if you try that, ditto if you bring in a party that can't be hurt by physical attacks) absorbing MP, (doesn't seem to work) Only thing I can think of is that it will very very rarely cast Mahazandyne. I've never managed to get it to cast it though when even one of my characters could reflect it.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:32
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Reive posted:I don't understand why they'd take a step back from 3D battles, I know the DS games pretty much had to have sprites, but going from a good looking 3D world into first person battles with static sprites just seems really jarring. The Nocturne models are nearly 12 years old now, so they're certainly not a step forward anyway.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:38
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I looked up what the lvl 99 Neutral demon that I won't name but you should all know who it is anyway looks like. It's more boring than bad really, kind of like what a first form should be. Oh well.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:40
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El Belmondo posted:Still waiting for somebody else to give a poo poo about Kyuuyaku MT. No one will ever give a poo poo about it - I think the translation project on that got stalled or dropped entirely - to my on-going frustration. It's maddening, but at least all the modern Megaten games are being translated and brought over. I already preordered SMTIV, so now it's just a matter of watching the clock. Hey, what sprites are they using for the low-level demons, like Pixies and Knockers? The sprites from Soul Hacker? Strange Journey? What?
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Jul 11, 2013 03:41
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Reive posted:Every trailer I've seen so far made them seem static, if they are well animated then I can appreciate that. Well I don't think they have casting animations, but the idle animations are a bit more smooth than the ones in Strange Journey. If that's what you meant by static, then, I'm afraid that's still the case.
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Jul 11, 2013 03:45
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StrixNebulosa posted:No one will ever give a poo poo about it - I think the translation project on that got stalled or dropped entirely - to my on-going frustration. Honestly? It's because it's not very good. 2 is kind of nifty in that it's what really the progenitor of the whole SMT series, but it hasn't aged well at all. 1 is basically irredeemable even in its 16-bit form. ed: To the overwhelming majority of gamers that is. I like them, but that's only because I'll play virtually anything that resembles a Wizardry game. Genpei Turtle fucked around with this message at 04:05 on Jul 11, 2013 |
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Jul 11, 2013 04:00
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Genpei Turtle posted:Honestly? It's because it's not very good. 2 is kind of nifty in that it's what really the progenitor of the whole SMT series, but it hasn't aged well at all. 1 is basically irredeemable even in its 16-bit form. What's really bad about MT1? Really silly looking sprites and no map? And that DLC boss looks hard. Maybe you have to just brute force it a ton and pray?
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Jul 11, 2013 04:10
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Booky posted:What's really bad about MT1? Really silly looking sprites and no map? It's just kind of a generic dungeon crawler. The fusion system is kind of a mess with very little consistency (over half the fusion chart results in Dryad). Large chunks of each dungeon serve no purpose what so ever. The Famicom version is physically painful to look at because of the first person scrolling.
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Jul 11, 2013 04:16
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I personally really like the new look of the angels. It makes them look inhuman (Which they apparently were back in early mythology.)
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Jul 11, 2013 04:50
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On the topic of the 'light on story' bit in the OP, how is it compared to Strange Journey in that regard? I'm playing SJ now and I'm finding it to have a really nice balance between dungeon crawling and some talking/story bits such that I never really feel like I'm wandering around without a clear goal or idea of what's happening.
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Jul 11, 2013 06:57
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I can't really get into Persona, but I loved DDS and Nocturne, so I'm psyched to play SMTIV. That and I just finished Fire Emblem so I need a new 3DS RPG and this will scratch that itch for a long while.
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Jul 11, 2013 06:57
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Davos posted:On the topic of the 'light on story' bit in the OP, how is it compared to Strange Journey in that regard? I'm playing SJ now and I'm finding it to have a really nice balance between dungeon crawling and some talking/story bits such that I never really feel like I'm wandering around without a clear goal or idea of what's happening. It'd say it is a little more plot heavy in that you're not in an hellscape bereft of humans and there are a lot of sidequests and stuff, but it isn't anywhere near Persona/Devil Survivor levels.
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Jul 11, 2013 07:12
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Genpei Turtle posted:Trust me when you play it you'll hardly notice, and the sprites are very nicely-detailed, especially during close-ups when negotiating with them or whatnot. Unrelated question since I must live vicariously through non-EU people: Are the demon sources a struggle to deal with? The random element sounds like traditional XOXOing only much worse.
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Jul 11, 2013 07:28
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Mailer posted:Unrelated question since I must live vicariously through non-EU people: Are the demon sources a struggle to deal with? The random element sounds like traditional XOXOing only much worse. Demon sources? Those were a Strange Journey thing. SMT4 doesn't have them.
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Jul 11, 2013 11:48
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I looked up the details on the bundle/promotion and it looks like I missed the boat. Apparently you have to have your 3DS already linked to your Club Nintendo whatever before you buy the game to get credit. Since I never did this I guess I lose out on that half 
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Jul 11, 2013 11:58
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Genpei Turtle posted:Demon sources? Those were a Strange Journey thing. SMT4 doesn't have them. Since you're around, which DLC packs do you consider worthwhile? Are all of them really just a boss fight pepperred with some unnecessary if interesting plot details? Same question for seminal goon ImpAtom as well. I saw someone beat the final DLC boss by the way. The person's team featured that very same demon + a fully stacked Mara and Michael though. Of course since I haven't played the game and my Japanese is scattershot as hell its not like I could discern any real strategy to beat it either 
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Jul 11, 2013 12:23
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ThePhenomenalBaby posted:Since you're around, which DLC packs do you consider worthwhile? Are all of them really just a boss fight pepperred with some unnecessary if interesting plot details? Same question for seminal goon ImpAtom as well. It really depends, honestly. Other than what I wrote in the OP there's not much more I can add. The boss fight DLC does consist of entirely a boss fight and some background info. The skills you get from the rewards are pretty nice though. None of the DLC actually adds any areas to explore--even the grinding areas are reskinned areas from another part of the game. Also there's no telling how much it will cost--if it ends up going for a buck or so I'd say go for it if you think it sounds interesting. The Japanese market for some reason doesn't mind being nickeled and dimed to death with DLC and IAP so it may end up costing more for that version. quote:I saw someone beat the final DLC boss by the way. The person's team featured that very same demon + a fully stacked Mara and Michael though. Of course since I haven't played the game and my Japanese is scattershot as hell its not like I could discern any real strategy to beat it either I actually beat it last night but I mostly used Pierce skills + a special Almighty skill Michael has. Problem is that all of that is DLC-only stuff, and I refuse to believe Atlus would be so obnoxious as to put out a DLC pack that requires previous DLC to beat.
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Jul 11, 2013 12:43
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Levantine posted:I looked up the details on the bundle/promotion and it looks like I missed the boat. Apparently you have to have your 3DS already linked to your Club Nintendo whatever before you buy the game to get credit. Since I never did this I guess I lose out on that half Contact Nintendo support, they're pretty good about sorting out stuff like this for people and giving them credit for games they bought before linking their 3DS to their account. It's not guaranteed, but it's worth the time it takes to send an email. Genpei Turtle posted:I actually beat it last night but I mostly used Pierce skills + a special Almighty skill Michael has. Problem is that all of that is DLC-only stuff, and I refuse to believe Atlus would be so obnoxious as to put out a DLC pack that requires previous DLC to beat. I dunno, Fire Emblem: Awakening did it, and apparently Atlus and IntSys are best buds now.
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Jul 11, 2013 14:50
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Thuryl posted:I dunno, Fire Emblem: Awakening did it, and apparently Atlus and IntSys are best buds now. Poking about on Japanese FAQ sites it looks like the way I did it is the only way anyone's been able to do it. That's kind of dumb, but I'm still going to keep trying to find a different way. I did notice his behavior changes a bit when you go in with only your MC so there may just be something nobody's found yet.
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Jul 11, 2013 17:04
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My god, why does this game have to come out during the Steam Sales? I'm going to be so poor this month.Genpei Turtle posted:The Japanese market for some reason doesn't mind being nickeled and dimed to death with DLC and IAP so it may end up costing more for that version. Is that why entertainment is so god damned expensive in Japan? I was looking up SMT4 on amazon.co.jp a while earlier and it was something like 7000 yen.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:29
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Genpei Turtle posted:It really depends, honestly. Other than what I wrote in the OP there's not much more I can add. The boss fight DLC does consist of entirely a boss fight and some background info. The skills you get from the rewards are pretty nice though. None of the DLC actually adds any areas to explore--even the grinding areas are reskinned areas from another part of the game. Also there's no telling how much it will cost--if it ends up going for a buck or so I'd say go for it if you think it sounds interesting. The Japanese market for some reason doesn't mind being nickeled and dimed to death with DLC and IAP so it may end up costing more for that version. The North American prices are, I believe, $1 for the costume packs and $2 for the grinding maps. At launch the white armor pack is free and the Exp grinding map is only $1 though.
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Jul 11, 2013 18:31
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TurnipFritter posted:It's just kind of a generic dungeon crawler. The fusion system is kind of a mess with very little consistency (over half the fusion chart results in Dryad). Large chunks of each dungeon serve no purpose what so ever. The Famicom version is physically painful to look at because of the first person scrolling. Oh. That sounds around what I was expecting. TurnipFritter posted:The North American prices are, I believe, $1 for the costume packs and $2 for the grinding maps. At launch the white armor pack is free and the Exp grinding map is only $1 though. That's really cheap. Are the Japanese prices more expensive overall or is it some conversion thing? 
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Jul 11, 2013 18:44
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One of the new demons is a Chemtrail? Like the internet conspiracy theory? That's hilarious and perfect
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Jul 11, 2013 19:07
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Heavy neutrino posted:Is that why entertainment is so god damned expensive in Japan? I was looking up SMT4 on amazon.co.jp a while earlier and it was something like 7000 yen. I thought I got it for around 6100 yen? Still, that's pretty typical for Japanese games. I did get it through the e-shop though. A lot of it I gather is cost of production compared to market size. Games, DVDs, movies, etc doesn't cost any less to make than they would anywhere else. Often it's even more, because space is at a premium in Japan and so much needs to be imported. And unlike other industries, exports can't be counted on to make up the slack since most entertainment produced for a Japanese audience doesn't translate well to foreign markets. Since you're not going to get nearly as many sales as you would with a larger market you have to charge more per unit if you want to even hope to turn a profit. Obviously some of it (such as the willingness to be nickel-and-dimed for everything in terms of DLC and IAP) is connected to differing consumer attitudes though. Japanese seem to be willing to spend more on entertainment in general--hell, when I lived there in the mid-90s, you couldn't even get into even a tiny 500 square foot bar without paying several thousand yen in cover fees, and that was 20 years ago in the relative sticks.
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Jul 11, 2013 19:09
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ThePhenomenalBaby posted:Since you're around, which DLC packs do you consider worthwhile? Are all of them really just a boss fight pepperred with some unnecessary if interesting plot details? Same question for seminal goon ImpAtom as well. The DLC stuff, from what I've seen, really depends on what you find appealing. I'd say Genpei Turtle sounds dead-on with the relatively usefulness of everything though. It's either new bosses or time-saving stuff to help you fight those new bosses/the superbosses. They'd be completely unnecessary for finishing the game. swamp waste posted:One of the new demons is a Chemtrail? Like the internet conspiracy theory? That's hilarious and perfect They actually do a pretty good job explaining why that kind of demon exists too.
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Jul 11, 2013 20:03
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swamp waste posted:One of the new demons is a Chemtrail? Like the internet conspiracy theory? That's hilarious and perfect Oh god don't let Dees play this game 
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Jul 11, 2013 22:16
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Kurtofan posted:Oh god make Dees play this game  ... Oh wait, you're worried it'll kill him. Well, put him on health monitors or something, but still do it, because the result will be amazing.
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Jul 11, 2013 22:21
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