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Jenx posted:I tried this out, and ended up with this monstrosity. I kept seeing all kinds of bombs, but little to no ramp, so I ended up just drafting every signet I could find (and I think I still missed one, since it didn't table). I'm not quite sure what Gifts is doing in this deck, but I figured I might as well use it to find me all kinds of signets and stuff. I think part of the problem is that my buddy who was also behind this wanted to have a Samurai subtheme just because he had a bunch of them sitting around. I've cut a bunch out already but I have the feeling that there's even more to go... every time I see Iwamori I cringe. I'm finding that getting the right amount of ramp is tricky in >360 cubes. I mean I have all the signet, some other rocks, ~4 G dorks, another 4 G spells. It really sucks when none of that shows up in the actual draft. I think I'm going to at least squeeze in the new m14 dork. How many sweet fat dudes is too much? Cuts are hard. Also how are you guys handling making cuts? I was planning on having everyone just take a cellphone pick of their deck and board after the game and tell me the card they thought was most useless? Collect that info to see who goes?
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Jul 18, 2013 11:48
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Tonde Mo Nai posted:I could never let go of Plow Under from my list. It's partially from a pet card standpoint (and there's a dumb story involving the foil version I've got), but from a pure gameplay perspective the finisher of potential-double-time walk is too much for me to pass up I agree. I think Plow Under is one of green's strongest cards in the cube. My aggro decks don't always want a lone 5cc curve-topper, but I make an exception for Plow Under in my X/G aggro decks. It's also beastly in mana dork midrange, functioning a bit like Erhnamgeddon.
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Jul 18, 2013 13:20
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Zoness posted:EDIT: Also since when was Venser, Shaper Savant not cube material any more? Dude has one of the coolest abilities written, he's like remand or boomerang on a man, what more can you ask for? I totally love Venser in cube. I can't imagine not having him in there. Plus he's a part of the Karakas/Riptide Laboratory/Crystal Shard shenanigans package.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:07
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Did my first cube draft about a month ago, and drafted this: http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/gw-cube-draft/ I lost 2 games in the entirety of the 6 round draft. That deck was just a beast. I miss it already.
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Jul 18, 2013 18:19
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 Who doesn't love Cube? My opponent 
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Jul 19, 2013 01:16
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weekly font posted:
Nobody. Everybody loves cube.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:11
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Sweet! A cube thread for Goons. I've been waiting for this OP for a while. Yawg's Will with no Tendrils of Agony is like the biggest tease ever. I pretty much have two horrible problems when it comes to cube drafting. The first is my love for Storm. The second is my love for Eternal Witness. Thank goodness the two are pretty much mutually exclusive. Also: Cube Bots really don't value Crystal Shard much even when it's probably one of the more degenerate effects in most cubes. Grixis Super Friends! EDIT: I see Storm as a fun exercise to try to assemble but also as not that hard to make work. Empty the warrens for 6 tokens is fine. Grapeshot pinging 4 dudes is probably pretty good. Ignite Memories on a storm count of 4 is basically lethal depending on the matchup and Mind's Desire is just good. Tendrils for 4-6 copies, while not lethal, is going to make you a lot harder to kill and is fine. My thoughts on storm is playing creatures (aside from like Iona and Kokusho and Witness) is for chumps when there are so many steal effects and creatureless lists void all the good removal that is present in most cubes, and if I'm going to not play creatures I should go big. Zoness fucked around with this message at 18:57 on Jul 19, 2013 |
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Jul 19, 2013 17:40
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Yawg's Will has been fantastic, but storm played like garbage in our cube. The drafters hated it, it's impossible to get to work in anything less than an 8-man draft (especially Sealed and Winston, 2 formats we play a lot of) and even with full-blown storm support, it's inconsistent and still falls on its face more often than not. And it requires too many tools that are bad outside of that one deck. Eternal Witness love is one which I share. I think it's the best green card in the cube. Yes, the bots value Crystal Shard low. I love the bounce/blink decks, and it's a critical enabler (as well as being a good source of disruption). Thanks for the comments!
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Jul 19, 2013 18:47
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Sweet! A cube thread for Goons. I've been waiting for this OP for a while. Gave this a try. First pack has Time Walk and Force of Will in it. There go my chances of not forcing blue. (And because Cube Tutor is loving stupid, it didn't log me in, so I can't show you the deck I made. Yay)
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Jul 19, 2013 19:03
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Jenx posted:Gave this a try. First pack has Time Walk and Force of Will in it. There go my chances of not forcing blue. (And because Cube Tutor is loving stupid, it didn't log me in, so I can't show you the deck I made. Yay) Time Walk has a way of changing what you had intended to force when you sat down. 
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Jul 19, 2013 19:07
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It's possible that it's different in other cubes, but I've found in the cube I play most often that crystal shard just isn't worth the time and mana spent on it--rather than repeatedly spending six mana to chump block with mulldrifter and recast it, it seems far better to just keep making plays that advance your board.
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Jul 19, 2013 20:03
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cheetah7071 posted:It's possible that it's different in other cubes, but I've found in the cube I play most often that crystal shard just isn't worth the time and mana spent on it--rather than repeatedly spending six mana to chump block with mulldrifter and recast it, it seems far better to just keep making plays that advance your board. That's some narrow thinking you've got there bud. It also provides threat of activation against your opponents, a way to save your own bros from removal, and you can use it to bounce that drifter after you've run out of better options. It's a pretty good card.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:17
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cheetah7071 posted:It's possible that it's different in other cubes, but I've found in the cube I play most often that crystal shard just isn't worth the time and mana spent on it--rather than repeatedly spending six mana to chump block with mulldrifter and recast it, it seems far better to just keep making plays that advance your board. Yeah I mean machine-gunning things with 187 effects is pretty awful. Like who'd want to do crystal-shard + mystic snake? What a weak effect! I probably wouldn't pick crystal shard over power but if you have Witness + Shard in your deck every broken card you get just gets better because now you can play those broken effects again. Mulldrifter + Shard is probably the dumbest most expensive way to play it out and really how are you not finding gas if you ARE recurring mulldrifter?
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Jul 19, 2013 21:24
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Not to mention that you should not be paying 6 mana for this. Evoke the drifter, bounce in response to the sac trigger. 4 mana, draw 2 cards. Each turn, every turn.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:29
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I guess I just see the crystal shard pseudo-lock (with mystic snake, venser, or similar) come together so rarely even in decks designed to abuse it that I'd rather not bother with all of that. Even in decks perfectly suited to abusing it, a large percentage of the time you play crystal shard it either gets removed, you just get aggroed to death because your three drop didn't affect the board, or you only have "value" bounce targets like mulldrifter or eternal witness that take a ton of mana while again not affecting the board.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:05
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I love Cube. My opponent cast a Jace, so in response I cast Restoration Angel to flicker my Phyrexian Revoker and name Jace 
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Jul 19, 2013 22:07
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So I drafted this sweet pile: I found out the one problem with the only way I ever want to play cube: I can't do the mana calculating fast enough, which is especially bad on mtgo. I really should have played more TEPS!
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Jul 20, 2013 05:00
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CountFosco posted:You know, it's possible that we could get some somethingawful cube drafts going on magic online. Like what limited resources does... but for us. It wouldn't be hard to do, especially if we want to cobble something peasant or pauper, as those seem pretty popular alternatives to powered cubing. I'd been keen on this, but am ont nearly competent enough to design the cube myself.
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Jul 20, 2013 13:50
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cheetah7071 posted:I guess I just see the crystal shard pseudo-lock (with mystic snake, venser, or similar) come together so rarely even in decks designed to abuse it that I'd rather not bother with all of that. Even in decks perfectly suited to abusing it, a large percentage of the time you play crystal shard it either gets removed, you just get aggroed to death because your three drop didn't affect the board, or you only have "value" bounce targets like mulldrifter or eternal witness that take a ton of mana while again not affecting the board. It plays more like a 4cc card than a 3-drop, and the first activation usually puts one of their threats back. Then you can start using it on your own guys. Not only does it "tax" their spells because they can never tap out, and it has all the ETB trigger abuse that generates so much value, but the card also protects your threats from removal. It bounces their threats, taxes their spells, is a bounce/blink archetype enabler, and protects your guys from removal. I think it's an all-star in the cube.
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Jul 20, 2013 13:57
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What's necessary for an artifact-centric archetype in a non powered cube? I just realized I have both Tezzerets, but I know it requires the effort to make sure the deck is there.
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Jul 21, 2013 05:51
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The Lord of Hats posted:What's necessary for an artifact-centric archetype in a non powered cube? I just realized I have both Tezzerets, but I know it requires the effort to make sure the deck is there. I'd go with a how Modern Masters did it and throw in some more Esper support cards as well as some metalcraft cards from SoM (etched Champion for example). You end up with a heavy reliance on 187 effects, though. As someone who played Open the Vaults in standard I'd start with cards from that decklist and tack on some core cards from affinity, some 1-cost baubles for Trinket Mage to find and Auriok Salvagers to work with, and probably some strong Equipment cards. I can put together a more useful list but for a non-powered cube Artifacts have to be an end as well as a means to an end, since I'm assuming you're not running silly things like Tolarian Academy or Tinker.
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Jul 21, 2013 06:00
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Both Tezzerets love the 6 artifact lands. Perhaps those? Also Thirst for Knowledge and Etherium Sculptor are always fun.
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Jul 21, 2013 09:55
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The Lord of Hats posted:What's necessary for an artifact-centric archetype in a non powered cube? I just realized I have both Tezzerets, but I know it requires the effort to make sure the deck is there. You will need lots of mana rocks. Powered lists have a bunch of sick artifact mana that most unpowered cubes don't play, and the artifact.dec loves them some mana rocks. So all the Signets/Talisman you want to play, and all the playable non-Signet rocks will be helpful in reaching the artifact mass you need for the deck to function.
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Jul 21, 2013 14:22
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I made a bit of an initial list of what I think are "cool" artifact effects to go with the Tezzerets in a non-powered cube. http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1948
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Jul 21, 2013 19:05
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Zoness posted:I made a bit of an initial list of what I think are "cool" artifact effects to go with the Tezzerets in a non-powered cube. Off the top of my head, you have some nice targets for Treasure Mage, and Grand Architect can help power them out.
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Jul 21, 2013 20:22
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Even without really pushing the artifact archetype, I'd suggest Trinket Mage (well, for powered cubes anyways). I've been pleasantly surprised with that card since its inclusion.
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Jul 22, 2013 13:07
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For artifacts in unpowered, I use the cycle of 5 basic-land-affinity golems from Darksteel. The Keyrunes from RTR/GTC are nice if you're on a budget because they fill 3 roles at the same time (increase artifact count for metalcraft/affinity, fix mana, and turn into creature when needed). For my cube, I chose to have white and, to a lesser extent, blue be the artifact-loving colors in my cube, so I found a few cards that have metalcraft or affinity to support the theme. Court Homunculus Glint Hawk Blinding Souleater Sanctum Gargoyle Porcelain Legionnaire Myrsmith Auriok Edgewright Dispeller's Capsule Razor Golem Spined Thopter Spire Golem Thoughtcast I had Lumengrid Sentinel (IIRC) in, or whatever the guy is called who taps target permanent whenever an artifact ETB. But took it out for Pestermite. I made sure to include some artifact creatures that specifically supported an artifact theme as well. A lot of this would go out the window in the case of a powered cube, of course.
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Jul 22, 2013 20:04
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So, Kalonian Hydra has been playing pretty well in the cube so far...
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Jul 23, 2013 14:20
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WhiteWolf123 posted:So, Kalonian Hydra has been playing pretty well in the cube so far... A 5-drop that kills in two swings does seem like a pretty good card, I have to admit. But I feel like Green is pretty stacked for 5-drops, what'd you cut for it?
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Jul 23, 2013 15:09
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The Lord of Hats posted:A 5-drop that kills in two swings does seem like a pretty good card, I have to admit. But I feel like Green is pretty stacked for 5-drops, what'd you cut for it? Vorapede. It has an easier casting cost, far higher power, cute +1/+1 counter interactions, and works with Imperial Recruiter and Reveillark. I think it's worth the loss of vigilance and undying. Plus, it was the easiest "like for like" swap without losing a 5-drop that provides a unique utility effect.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:35
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WhiteWolf123 posted:Vorapede. It has an easier casting cost, far higher power, cute +1/+1 counter interactions, and works with Imperial Recruiter and Reveillark. I think it's worth the loss of vigilance and undying. Plus, it was the easiest "like for like" swap without losing a 5-drop that provides a unique utility effect. I know on Salvation you defended it to death and your argument certainly isn't wrong in any way, but in my Cube I think I'm leaning closer to cutting Genesis for it. 
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Jul 23, 2013 22:36
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weekly font posted:I know on Salvation you defended it to death and your argument certainly isn't wrong in any way, but in my Cube I think I'm leaning closer to cutting Genesis for it. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. It would be a much less interesting hobby if we all cubed the exact same cards. I personally like the unique nature of Genesis, how it can grind out long mirror match wins and how it shores up green midrange decks' weakness to control.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:14
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When we only have 4 players for (peasant) cube night we often end up doing two-headed giant sealed. I've been thinking of trying out an EDH-lite format for these matches using the 6-drop shard and wedge dragons as the generals. I've also thought about using a cycle of mono-colored generals as well, probably ones that cost 3XXX (white, blue, and red only have one such creature, while green and and black have some options to pick from). Any thoughts on this? It wouldn't be a regular thing, but I figure it might be a fun way to spice up matches from time to time.
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Jul 25, 2013 02:56
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whydirt posted:When we only have 4 players for (peasant) cube night we often end up doing two-headed giant sealed. I've been thinking of trying out an EDH-lite format for these matches using the 6-drop shard and wedge dragons as the generals. I've also thought about using a cycle of mono-colored generals as well, probably ones that cost 3XXX (white, blue, and red only have one such creature, while green and and black have some options to pick from). Don't make anyone play Mono-U. It leads to the dark side, even if you pick only new cards.
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Jul 25, 2013 05:05
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I once had a powered cube and sometimes we took out (number of players)*2 legendary creatures and drafted those before normally drafting, made mini-edhs. It took a bit longer and honestly never really worked but it's nice to switch things up every now and then.
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Jul 25, 2013 06:39
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whydirt posted:When we only have 4 players for (peasant) cube night we often end up doing two-headed giant sealed. I've been thinking of trying out an EDH-lite format for these matches using the 6-drop shard and wedge dragons as the generals. I've also thought about using a cycle of mono-colored generals as well, probably ones that cost 3XXX (white, blue, and red only have one such creature, while green and and black have some options to pick from). There are several people that manage EDH cubes over on MTGS. Additionally, there's a thread dedicated solely to EDH/Multiplayer cube discussion. I bet those guys could guide you a bit better than I can. I have no experience drafting an EDH cube.
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Jul 25, 2013 13:14
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Would it be worthwhile to collect a list of goon cube links for the OP? Something like this with the username and short description: edit: Actually, I'll collect a list of all the links posted so far and add it to this post after I eat some breakfast. Stinky Pit [Powered 450] - http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1728 Tonde Mo Nai [Powered 540] - http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1278 WhiteWolf123 [Powered 450] - http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/170 boba fetacheese [Unpowered 495] - http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1034 The Lord of Hats [Unpowered 450] - http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1857 CountFosco [Budget 373] - http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1032 Nibble [Modern 557] - http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/821 kasonic [Peasant 360] - http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/781 revengeanceful [Peasant 370] - http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/72 whydirt [Peasant 360] - http://www.cubetutor.com/viewcube/251 If someone has a better way to format this list so it's more user-friendly, please chime in. I think this covers everyone who's posted so far, so let me know if I missed you! whydirt fucked around with this message at 15:05 on Jul 26, 2013 |
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Jul 26, 2013 14:44
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I think it would be awesome to update the OP with links to goon cubes.
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Jul 26, 2013 18:56
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I have an awful, awful, stupid thing at http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1977 It's just made of what we could cobble together out of a bunch of leftover stuff, basically pulling out these cards before selling some rows of commons/uncommons/bulk rares for bulk prices. The idea is to see just how bad this is and refine with super budget options as time goes on, so any suggestions are welcomed if anyone even cares to look at it.
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Jul 26, 2013 20:32
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toadee posted:I have an awful, awful, stupid thing at http://cubetutor.com/viewcube/1977 Well you should really take out the cards that people wouldn't even be happy to see in a normal draft, like Drainpipe Vermin. Un-cards are neat but honestly the upkeep ones just become a pain. But yeah I don't think cards that most of the time don't make the cut for 23rd card in their own draft format or won't see constructed play belong in a cube.
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Jul 26, 2013 20:47
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