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Sweet! A cube thread for Goons. I've been waiting for this OP for a while. Here's a link to my cube (450, Powered): http://cubetutor.playworks.cloudbees.net/viewcube/170 For those that follow MTGS (an otherwise okay site that happens to have a great community for cube-related talk) I'm wtwlf123 from over there. I wrote an article about the basic cube design philosophy, which I'd like to share here, if that's okay: http://www.mtgsalvation.com/1207-cube-design-philosophy.html I've been cube drafting for a really long time, and I've been managing my own list for the past 4-5 years. I spend a lot of time discussing all things cube, and I'm stoked to see this thread up and running. Happy cubing!
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Jul 17, 2013 19:01
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toadee posted:Man, Im not sure how to accomplish it, but I sure wish the bots on Cube Tutor drafted even somewhat competently. I should not be getting a pack 1 pick 3 Jace, the Mind Sculptor. It can happen, but it would be rare indeed. If we could see what the bots took in there first picks, it might make more sense. I've definitely passed big Jace before, but that early in the draft, it would be tough outside of maybe 5-10 other cards (in a powered cube that is).
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Jul 17, 2013 19:23
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Tonde Mo Nai posted:I could never let go of Plow Under from my list. It's partially from a pet card standpoint (and there's a dumb story involving the foil version I've got), but from a pure gameplay perspective the finisher of potential-double-time walk is too much for me to pass up I agree. I think Plow Under is one of green's strongest cards in the cube. My aggro decks don't always want a lone 5cc curve-topper, but I make an exception for Plow Under in my X/G aggro decks. It's also beastly in mana dork midrange, functioning a bit like Erhnamgeddon.
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Jul 18, 2013 13:20
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weekly font posted:
Nobody. Everybody loves cube.
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Jul 19, 2013 13:11
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Yawg's Will has been fantastic, but storm played like garbage in our cube. The drafters hated it, it's impossible to get to work in anything less than an 8-man draft (especially Sealed and Winston, 2 formats we play a lot of) and even with full-blown storm support, it's inconsistent and still falls on its face more often than not. And it requires too many tools that are bad outside of that one deck. Eternal Witness love is one which I share. I think it's the best green card in the cube. Yes, the bots value Crystal Shard low. I love the bounce/blink decks, and it's a critical enabler (as well as being a good source of disruption). Thanks for the comments!
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Jul 19, 2013 18:47
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Jenx posted:Gave this a try. First pack has Time Walk and Force of Will in it. There go my chances of not forcing blue. (And because Cube Tutor is loving stupid, it didn't log me in, so I can't show you the deck I made. Yay) Time Walk has a way of changing what you had intended to force when you sat down. 
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Jul 19, 2013 19:07
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cheetah7071 posted:I guess I just see the crystal shard pseudo-lock (with mystic snake, venser, or similar) come together so rarely even in decks designed to abuse it that I'd rather not bother with all of that. Even in decks perfectly suited to abusing it, a large percentage of the time you play crystal shard it either gets removed, you just get aggroed to death because your three drop didn't affect the board, or you only have "value" bounce targets like mulldrifter or eternal witness that take a ton of mana while again not affecting the board. It plays more like a 4cc card than a 3-drop, and the first activation usually puts one of their threats back. Then you can start using it on your own guys. Not only does it "tax" their spells because they can never tap out, and it has all the ETB trigger abuse that generates so much value, but the card also protects your threats from removal. It bounces their threats, taxes their spells, is a bounce/blink archetype enabler, and protects your guys from removal. I think it's an all-star in the cube.
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Jul 20, 2013 13:57
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The Lord of Hats posted:What's necessary for an artifact-centric archetype in a non powered cube? I just realized I have both Tezzerets, but I know it requires the effort to make sure the deck is there. You will need lots of mana rocks. Powered lists have a bunch of sick artifact mana that most unpowered cubes don't play, and the artifact.dec loves them some mana rocks. So all the Signets/Talisman you want to play, and all the playable non-Signet rocks will be helpful in reaching the artifact mass you need for the deck to function.
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Jul 21, 2013 14:22
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Even without really pushing the artifact archetype, I'd suggest Trinket Mage (well, for powered cubes anyways). I've been pleasantly surprised with that card since its inclusion.
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Jul 22, 2013 13:07
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So, Kalonian Hydra has been playing pretty well in the cube so far...
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Jul 23, 2013 14:20
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The Lord of Hats posted:A 5-drop that kills in two swings does seem like a pretty good card, I have to admit. But I feel like Green is pretty stacked for 5-drops, what'd you cut for it? Vorapede. It has an easier casting cost, far higher power, cute +1/+1 counter interactions, and works with Imperial Recruiter and Reveillark. I think it's worth the loss of vigilance and undying. Plus, it was the easiest "like for like" swap without losing a 5-drop that provides a unique utility effect.
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Jul 23, 2013 17:35
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weekly font posted:I know on Salvation you defended it to death and your argument certainly isn't wrong in any way, but in my Cube I think I'm leaning closer to cutting Genesis for it. Different strokes for different folks, and all that. It would be a much less interesting hobby if we all cubed the exact same cards. I personally like the unique nature of Genesis, how it can grind out long mirror match wins and how it shores up green midrange decks' weakness to control.
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Jul 24, 2013 14:14
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whydirt posted:When we only have 4 players for (peasant) cube night we often end up doing two-headed giant sealed. I've been thinking of trying out an EDH-lite format for these matches using the 6-drop shard and wedge dragons as the generals. I've also thought about using a cycle of mono-colored generals as well, probably ones that cost 3XXX (white, blue, and red only have one such creature, while green and and black have some options to pick from). There are several people that manage EDH cubes over on MTGS. Additionally, there's a thread dedicated solely to EDH/Multiplayer cube discussion. I bet those guys could guide you a bit better than I can. I have no experience drafting an EDH cube.
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Jul 25, 2013 13:14
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I think it would be awesome to update the OP with links to goon cubes.
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Jul 26, 2013 18:56
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I don't like the feel/flavor of Un- cards, so I don't use them in my cube. But there are certainly some worthwhile ones to include if you decide to go that route (Booster Tutor, Blast From the Past, City of rear end and Gifts Given being at the top of my list). Magical Hacker does stupid things with planeswalkers...
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Jul 27, 2013 01:24
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Aggro is a powerful and important component to add to any cube, powered or otherwise. And having Isamaru as your only aggro beater is much more of a trap than not supporting aggro at all. Either provide aggro with the tools it needs to win, or don't support it at all. The pitfall that the vast majority of cube lists run into is giving them lovely half-assed support. The MTGO cube is a perfect example of where aggro is terrible. And since that's most people's experience with cubing, they assume that aggro sucks in the cube, when that couldn't be further from the truth. In fact, having aggro as a dominant theater is critical to prevent control from dominating the cube. Without the threat of aggro decks crushing them, control will beat all the midrange goodstuff decks the cube churns out, and will be uncontested in pretty much every draft.
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Jul 30, 2013 01:42
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Death Pits of Crap posted:None of the creatures Zoness suggested are what I would describe as "dumb aggro beaters." They're aggro beaters that stifle powerful effects. The only cube archetype that seems able to make good use of multiple vanilla creatures is mono-red. Sounds like you have experiences drafting cubes where aggro is bad. Every aggro/tempo deck created in a cube where aggro is capable of winning drafts wants 2-power 1-drop beaters.
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Jul 30, 2013 03:26
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I think most of those cards have been outclassed for a while now. There's only so many cube slots available . Count up the number of creatures that Fanatic kills in the cube still. It's probably more than you'd first guess. Aggro decks are beastly, and they win about 1/3 of the drafts around here. And efficient 1-2cc beaters are a critical part of their success.
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Jul 30, 2013 13:39
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Molybdenum posted:Student of war is a good 1 drop in aggro isn't he? Most definitely. The Student plays really well in WW/x aggro shells, and similarly to Figure, he can provide value into the later stages of the game, where a lot of other aggressive creature options cannot.
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Jul 30, 2013 14:05
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Jenx posted:I gave aggro a try but mostly ended up with this. A bunch of 2 mana 2/1s is not where I wanted to be in aggro deck, but I just never saw anything really worth it. Most of the cards I saw were expensive and splashy with very little to actually help me. That deck needs aggressive 1-drops. Without them, you lose the early pressure against control; which is the reason to play aggro to begin with. A 40-card deck needs 7 aggressive 1-drops to have a 75% chance of applying pressure from the beginning of the game. That decklist above would be too slow to beat control and too small to combat midrange. And it would lose. That's the problem that average cubes have with aggressive decks, they don't play enough aggro cards to make it competitive in the environment.
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Jul 31, 2013 19:36
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Ya, if the cube isn't designed to support aggro (with a good amount of aggressive 1cc cards) it can be a trap, and you can wind up with a terrible pile. Talk to the cube manager before the drafts and find out how well they support aggro. Without a grip of decent aggressive beaters (in your example, no Naya aggro 1-drops?!) you're better off just forcing control. Hatebears are cool and all, but without the rest of the aggressive deck shell available, you wind up just playing a bad midrange deck.
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Jul 31, 2013 21:40
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KasaiAisu posted:I'm not a fan of running aggro in anything that isn't constructed, just because it's not consistent enough. Even if you do get a couple good 1 drops, they need to be in your opening hand to be worthwhile. Midrange dinosaurs or bust Aggro is absolutely consistent enough in the cube. Again, if you support it. Most cubes don't support it well enough, so these kinds of opinions are formed.
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Aug 1, 2013 03:08
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CountFosco posted:This is what I ended up with when I tried to force aggro after taking a hero of bladehold over a better card (can't remember what it was). If that's what you wound up with in an 8-man draft when trying to force aggro, aggro simply isn't supported in that cube list. At all.
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Aug 2, 2013 02:36
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boba fetacheese posted:Well, I finally actually got 6 kids together to try and cube. It was honestly a gongshow because we didn't get #6 over until late so we only had maybe 2-3 hours to do it. The draft itself was a blast though. Pack one for me was kinda mediocre so I decided to commit to two colours right away and grab Lightning Helix. I just grabbed every single Boros 1/2 drop that came my way and P2P1 I lucksacked into a pack with Jitte. Ended up with a pretty monster aggro deck and smashed the two games I was able to play. Boros aggro is one of the most commonly drafted decks in my cube.
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Aug 4, 2013 15:08
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boba fetacheese posted:Yeah, I've told everyone multiple times that aggro is A Thing but I suspect it will take a couple drafts before that sinks in. This was what I found as well. Players that are stuck in the mindset of "this is cube, so I'll always be able to hardcast my fatties off land mana alone" were in for a rude awakening when 1/3 of the decks at the table run them over way before that can happen. Aggro is powerful, and important for keeping control in check in the cube, and players now respect (and expect) aggro to be competitive in each and every draft. It really changes the dynamic of the cube, and makes the environment much healthier when aggro goes from being a fringe deck with the possibility of being drafted to a powerhouse that is expected to win drafts. Not supporting aggro adequately is probably the most common pitfall that fledgling cube lists struggle with. That, and having too much multicolor and/or not enough fixing lands.
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Aug 5, 2013 18:32
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boba fetacheese posted:I am 100% guilty of too many gold cards. But we'll see after a couple drafts what the impact is or if I'm going to have to make some painful cuts. Some of the cuts can be hard, because there's a few guilds that are really stacked deep. But even in those cases, having a few good gold cards riding the boards is better than clogging up drafts with cards that go late. gnome7 posted:It's so hard, because gold cards are just so COOL and there's so many good ones! Ravnica and Alara gave us so much gold, but a cube with lots of gold is a cube that's hard to work with. I don't cube any 3-color gold cards (except Nacatl). So I think that's a good plan. There are a lot of really cool and flavorful gold cards, but for the most part, they're easy to exclude because of the limited range of decks they can be played in.
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Aug 6, 2013 13:26
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I agree about 3-color cards clogging up drafts. Nicol Bolas was a fun achievement to unlock while he was in there, but it was easily the least used card in the cube. An easy cut. Filter lands are solid budget choices if you don't have the more expensive fixers available. But I'm not a fan of how they play out in most decks, because they can't split mana between turns and phases or tap for colored mana on turn one. Meaning that neither my aggressive decks or my reactive decks really want them.
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Aug 7, 2013 14:02
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2-power 1-drops (Isamaru, Student, Lynx, etc), disruptive and/or evasive 2-drops (Thalia, Sovereign, Soltaris, etc), and closing spells (Armageddon/Ravages, Elspeth, etc).
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Aug 12, 2013 22:37
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weekly font posted:If you have to add Bouncelands or Filterlands what do you do? I lean towards Filter but I can be convinced. Like whydirt said, I'd build my own cycles. Painlands/Fastlands for aggro, Checklands/Filterlands for midrange, Bouncelands for control.
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Aug 13, 2013 20:41
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This guy seems pretty solid for the cube: Green isn't super deep on 4cc creatures, and this guy can swing as an 8/8 on T5 after casting an Arc Lightning on your opponent's board.
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Aug 15, 2013 19:57
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Ya, I'm hoping it's real too. Rumor has it (now, it has changed again just this morning) that the cost is XXG, and that the damage is divided. If that's the case, it hurts it in a big way. WhiteWolf123 fucked around with this message at 18:55 on Aug 16, 2013 |
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Aug 16, 2013 18:53
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Ya, so sorry for the double post, but the wording on that hydra is confirmed to be XXG instead of XGG, so it got a lot worse. 
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Aug 19, 2013 13:36
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TheAbortionator posted:Sorry if this has been asked before but, I am putting together my first cube, and was just wondering what sleeves I should order and from where if they are being shipped to Canada. If Potomac Distribution ships to Canada, their prices are unbeatable. I'd get a case of KMC perfect fits and a case of KMC matte sleeves and double-sleeve the cube. Seriously, I've been using that company for all my sleeves on all my cubes over the years, and the prices are super low. Edit: For real, you can get a case (800 sleeves) in matte black for $54. And you can get a case (1000 sleeves) of perfect fits for an additional $33. If you only want to single-sleeve the cube, you can get a case (1000 shields) of Dragon Shields for $68. WhiteWolf123 fucked around with this message at 14:17 on Aug 20, 2013 |
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Aug 20, 2013 14:12
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Ya, white can be a bit of an oddball, because it does both aggro and control theaters so well. I'd add in lots of aggro support, and wraths/removal for control as well. For white archetype support, I'd go with a token/anthem theme (cards that produce multiple threats and cards that pump your team). When you get several of those cards together in the same deck, it can make for a nasty list.
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Sep 4, 2013 03:29
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Zekky posted:Here's my cube list, 450 unpowered https://cubetutor.com/viewcube/499. I finally got to draft it in person 2 weeks ago after spending 4-5 months piecing together the cards, it's pretty great seeing people play within an environment you've crafted. It's awesome having a group of people enjoy crafting the environment you've sculpted. And thanks for the shout out. Stinky Pit posted:I really want to replace the Scars block fast lands and I could use some suggestions. How many lands are you playing per color, and what other lands are you already using? Are you open to sculpting your own cycles of lands instead of using complete cycles?
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Sep 4, 2013 17:04
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Stinky Pit posted:This is my cube currently. I think the aggressive combinations would be happy with the Scars duals because they produce colored mana in the critical spots of your curve, but control combinations would be happier with the M10 lands or Bouncelands because they do what they're supposed to do in the later stages of the game. That being said, I don't think they're necessary at 450, where 4 lands per combination is fine, and they're outclassed by the Dual/Shock/Fetch/Manland organization already.
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Sep 4, 2013 18:36
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Stinky Pit posted:I agree wholly, I just don't know what would be interesting in their place. I'd cut all of them and add in some more universally valuable lands. I'd drop those, Inkmoth and Blinkmoth and add in: Ancient Tomb Dust Bowl Evolving Wilds Faerie Conclave Grand Coliseum Terramorphic Expanse Undiscovered Paradise Ooh, and I'd get Horizon Canopy in there any way you can. If you want to swap WG fixing for more WG fixing, it's much better than Stirring Wildwood is.
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Sep 4, 2013 19:04
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Have people been following the Theros spoilers for the cube? It's bonkers. It started off really slow, but I'm up to a dozen includes for my powered 450 list, and the set's only half-spoiled. Seems like they spoiled all the good stuff in the middle of this spoiler season instead of the beginning. It's been a crazy week of reading sick cube cards get spoiled one after another.
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Sep 10, 2013 18:47
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Zekky posted:Yeah, I've got a few I want to add. Soldier of the Pantheon, Hero's Downfall, Sylvan Caryatid, Spear of Heliod and Fleecemane Lion seem like easy inclusions. I'm not sure about the planeswalkers though. Well I won't be playing the Lion (Selesnya is so deep with sick cards) but the rest of those and more I'm super excited about.
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Sep 10, 2013 22:04
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| # ¿ May 17, 2024 19:16 |
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I wrote an article discussing the Theros cube additions now that the set is fully spoiled. The article can be found here: http://forums.mtgsalvation.com/showthread.php?p=10719999#post10719999 Let me know what you think!
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Sep 14, 2013 20:06
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