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unprofessional posted:Anybody else keep significant other out of the loop as far as savings are concerned? I don't have any ulterior motives, but I just know my wife, and if she knew we had the amount I save up available, she'd want to use it. I never know how to feel about this. I just want to make sure we can actually retire. Make sure to budget for losing half because what's what she'll get in the upcoming divorce.
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Oct 23, 2013 19:21
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| # ? Apr 24, 2024 08:34 |
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Do you lie to her or just keep her out of the loop? My partner gets stressed out by money so she doesn't want to talk or know anything about it at all, but if she asked for balances I wouldn't give her a fake number...
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Oct 23, 2013 20:00
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unprofessional posted:Anybody else keep significant other out of the loop as far as savings are concerned? I don't have any ulterior motives, but I just know my wife, and if she knew we had the amount I save up available, she'd want to use it. I never know how to feel about this. I just want to make sure we can actually retire. If your wife acknowledges her poor spending habits, maybe you could get away with, "Let me handle the finances honey"? In other words, she still wouldn't see the information, but it would be by an agreement?
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Oct 23, 2013 20:02
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unprofessional posted:Anybody else keep significant other out of the loop as far as savings are concerned? I don't have any ulterior motives, but I just know my wife, and if she knew we had the amount I save up available, she'd want to use it. I never know how to feel about this. I just want to make sure we can actually retire. Kinda. I mainly keep her out of the loop on things savings. We share a YNAB budget, so as long as things conform to that, its pretty mindless for her. In reality we're saving at a solid clip, so I'm pleased. She has full access as our savings is linked to our shared checking, but I dont think she ever really looks at it. I have had to shoot down some big vacation wants / ask her to keep her dress purchases within budget constraints, but its all in the open. As GoGoGadgetChris said - she doesnt really know much about it, but I wouldnt lie on account values.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:09
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Yeah, doing something "for their own good" when they are not a party to it is a really bad idea dude. I would rather be poor and in a happy marriage then committing financial infidelity.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:13
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It's pretty obvious the wife doesn't care. Quit trying to pretend this is something it isn't.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:18
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That 100% sounds like financial abuse. To a judge. In case of divorce. Just saying.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:19
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Harry posted:It's pretty obvious the wife doesn't care. Quit trying to pretend this is something it isn't. unprofessional posted:Anybody else keep significant other out of the loop as far as savings are concerned? I don't have any ulterior motives, but I just know my wife, and if she knew we had the amount I save up available, she'd want to use it. I never know how to feel about this. I just want to make sure we can actually retire. I stand by my statement.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:20
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Do you hold yourself to the same standards in terms of making budget? Presumably your wife knows that you have savings that you aren't planning on spending. When she asks for something expensive can't you just say "we don't have room in the budget for that"? If she knows you have savings as well and just hasn't gotten around to checking it you are in the clear, if she doesn't and assumes you saying "we can't afford it" means "we actually do not have this much money" then that is not okay at all. There's no specific frequency at which you have to inform her of your savings levels as long as she knows it exists, has access and can check it.
Jeffrey of YOSPOS fucked around with this message at 20:27 on Oct 23, 2013 |
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Oct 23, 2013 20:24
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LorneReams posted:I stand by my statement. And if she cared she'd ask about it at some point.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:25
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If she has full access to the savings accounts, and you're not lying, I don't see a problem; if she ever wanted to check, she could. Initially I thought Walked was putting the money away in accounts she didn't know about.
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Oct 23, 2013 20:34
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It seems weird to have secret retirement savings, even if she doesn't ask, but I don't know you or her so I'm in no place to judge your relationship. I don't have a wife or anything, but I tell my cats everything.
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Oct 23, 2013 21:47
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How does it work with your goals? Like, do you want to retire early? How are you going to break that to her? "So uh, yeah, we have so much money that we no longer have to work. Just an FYI, I'm retiring, you can do whatever since you have no concerns regarding our financial independence at all."
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Oct 23, 2013 23:03
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She makes three times as much as I do, and her retirement is a mandatory amount of her paycheck (state job), so she doesn't care enough to even know how much it is. She knows I put money in the Roth and my 403(b), but she doesn't realize how much it is. She is a "put the minimum amount in and figure that everything will be fine" kind of person. I just want to make sure we're well set when we do want do retire. She knows nothing about saving, and doesn't seem to really care about it, so I just put as much in as I can, so I can feel that we'll be in a good position in the future. Obviously, by asking, I know it's wrong, but I can't help but feel I should keep doing it, knowing her.
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Oct 23, 2013 23:40
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unprofessional posted:She makes three times as much as I do, and her retirement is a mandatory amount of her paycheck (state job), so she doesn't care enough to even know how much it is. She knows I put money in the Roth and my 403(b), but she doesn't realize how much it is. She is a "put the minimum amount in and figure that everything will be fine" kind of person. I just want to make sure we're well set when we do want do retire. She knows nothing about saving, and doesn't seem to really care about it, so I just put as much in as I can, so I can feel that we'll be in a good position in the future. Obviously, by asking, I know it's wrong, but I can't help but feel I should keep doing it, knowing her. So your goal is to work a normal amount of time, like 30-40 years, and retire comfortably? I mean sure that's financial independence but it's not really the subject of this thread, as I understand it.
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Oct 23, 2013 23:47
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tuyop posted:How does it work with your goals? Like, do you want to retire early? How are you going to break that to her? That would actually be kind of nice. Don't do it passive-aggresssively like that though. But if you had been stashing a little bit more money away every month than your spouse thought, and they were all set to retire in, say 5 years and you sprung it on them that SURPRISE! We can actually retire RIGHT NOW! I think that would be a pretty cool surprise.
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Oct 24, 2013 03:17
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I find it hard to imagine that if you get along at all you can't both be jointly motivated by a similar goal, especially one which is so awesome. My lady always rolls her eyes at my cripplingly large frugality muscles - I'll practically have steam coming out my ears when she buys a set of glasses because goddamnit WE ALREADY HAVE THINGS TO DRINK OUT OF. But when I talk about the goals we're kicking and the future we've got coming I see the same light in her eyes. Have you tried having a serious conversation with her about it? With two people attacking (especially when one is 3 times higher!) your goals will be a hell of a lot more achievable. Unless she seriously loves her job or something. But even then, there is an inherent 'jobiness' to work that means you're getting the short end of the stick financially speaking.
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Oct 24, 2013 08:25
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Instead of keeping the money "hidden" why not invest it? Then it's totally out of sight out of mind. Just give her access to the investment account.
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Oct 24, 2013 15:57
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TLG James posted:Instead of keeping the money "hidden" why not invest it? Then it's totally out of sight out of mind. Just give her access to the investment account. Be aware though that some people don't have the stones for watching an investment account either. It's either  "We have $200,000 in the account! Can't we use that now?"or  "We've lost $30,000 in the account SELL IT NOW BEFORE IT GETS WORSE!"
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Oct 29, 2013 17:29
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Bernstein's comparison with a house is pretty awesome. Your house may lose half it's value one month, do you notice or care? If you notice, what do you do, do you immediately move? He says that you should treat your portfolio like a homeowner treats their home. Only "move" if you need to and try to design your life so that you have the ability to not "move" if poo poo has gone south for a few years.
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Oct 29, 2013 19:58
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http://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/1pq2dn/retired_at_33_with_32000yr_retirement_budget_me/ Decent read. Some of the old posts are grumpy college students angry that this guy doesn't want to save for his kid's college.
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Nov 3, 2013 19:33
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TLG James posted:http://www.reddit.com/r/financialindependence/comments/1pq2dn/retired_at_33_with_32000yr_retirement_budget_me/
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Nov 3, 2013 20:08
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Paying for my own university was a pretty formative experience for me and I really wouldn't want to deny that experience to my kids, even if it is potentially painful. That doesn't preclude setting up a fund to help them just in case something terrible happens, but giving them a full-ride just because we happen to be related really doesn't appeal to me.
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Nov 3, 2013 20:34
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The actually frugal option is to not have kids. Once you do you are obligated to provide for them within your means. It is especially cruel to not pay for school if you file for them as a dependent, since they'll miss out on all sorts of financial aid that way. I know I would have not gone to the school I did if I had to pay my own way, and that's despite the fact that I've since earned back enough to pay for the tuition. I think my life would have been measurably worse if my parents hadn't covered school, and I can't imagine electing to stop working sooner at the expense of my (hypothetical) kids. Of course, it would be something I'd budget for as part of planning for having kids, not something I'd wait to worry about when it comes up.
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Nov 3, 2013 21:09
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tuyop posted:That doesn't preclude setting up a fund to help them just in case something terrible happens, but giving them a full-ride just because we happen to be related really doesn't appeal to me.
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Nov 3, 2013 21:50
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No Wave posted:"just because we happen to be related?" Like, part of your rationale is that it would be too much of a pain in the rear end? You are not ready. How does what I said mean "it would be a pain in my rear end" to you? I was raised to feel a sense of worth and worthiness based on what I'd done, not on where I lived or who my parents were or any other amount of things I couldn't control. If I had to decide between setting up a scholarship fund that gave 10k to someone who demonstrated need and potential and giving my child 10 grand just because, then I'd much rather do the scholarship fund. Of course my child will probably show lots of need and potential, but if the deciding factor is that they're my child, then I don't place a lot of value on that. This has absolutely nothing to do with the labor of saving or spending the money and everything to do with my values. If I have a kid who, say, is incredibly motivated to be a dancer and isn't being served by the public school system, I have no problem at all with compromising financial independence to put them in some kind of fine arts-centered school.
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Nov 3, 2013 22:44
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Back in my day kids payed for their own education, and they liked it! But in all seriousness Tuyop, in that last post you are literally a robot. You don't have to give them a complete 100% paid for free ride, just give them a hand if things get tough. If you actually did poo poo like in your first example your kid would be completely hosed up emotionally, they'd be full of resentment and hatred for you at a minimum.
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Nov 3, 2013 23:01
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Rudager posted:Back in my day kids payed for their own education, and they liked it! tuyop posted:That doesn't preclude setting up a fund to help them just in case something terrible happens, but giving them a full-ride just because we happen to be related really doesn't appeal to me. I really don't see how it's this huge emotional issue for people. My parents bought a cottage instead of paying for my education. This is literally exactly how it was explained to me, and so I joined the army to pay for part of my school (I didn't qualify for public OR private loans) and ruined my back for the rest of my life. I don't feel any resentment toward my parents for this, I have no idea what kind of person I'd be if they hadn't bought the cottage, but I'm very happy now.
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Nov 3, 2013 23:51
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There's a difference between paying for someones college and getting them braces.
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Nov 4, 2013 00:27
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tuyop posted:I really don't see how it's this huge emotional issue for people. My parents bought a cottage instead of paying for my education. This is literally exactly how it was explained to me, and so I joined the army to pay for part of my school (I didn't qualify for public OR private loans) and ruined my back for the rest of my life. I don't feel any resentment toward my parents for this, I have no idea what kind of person I'd be if they hadn't bought the cottage, but I'm very happy now. There's nothing intrinsically wrong with not helping your kids out too much because realistically if you're FI you've probably already given them lots of attention and care and had time to think about parenting that they're probably not all hosed up and poo poo, which is of course the greatest possible gift. I mean that's why MMM did FI in the first place. But note that his narrative is completely different from yours - he believes that his kid will turn out better for not having poo poo paid for. I don't necessarily agree, but that's completely different from no longer looking out for your kid's best interests because other people have it worse. If this is your belief, DO NOT HAVE KIDS, it'll be a totally hosed up situation for you and them. Also - to get WAY too personal - for someone whose mental state is less than ideal, why would you just copy what your parents did? I'm not saying they made a wrong decision, I just don't understand why that would be your default argument. Don't you think you can make life a little better for your kids than yours was? There's an awful lot I'm going to do differently if I have kids, and that doesn't mean that I resent my parents, either, just that I don't see the fact of their behavior as a justification for basing future actions off of that behavior. No Wave fucked around with this message at 02:32 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 01:24
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tuyop posted:I really don't see how it's this huge emotional issue for people. My parents bought a cottage instead of paying for my education. They didn't pay for your cousins education because they were smarter than you though.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:23
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The parental support for college issue is heavily complicated by federal loan conditions. FAFSA filing requirements call upon your parent's financial situation until 24 years of age. In an early retirement sense, it may help that a parent's income is low. But the parent's assets totaling 1.5m certainly won't help when it comes time to apply for Pell Grants and subsidized Stafford loans. In the US at least, getting loans to pay for yourself to go to school is inextricably linked to your parents' financials. True retirement accounts don't count against you, but an ER fanatic likely has a substantial amount in taxable investments. Running some numbers, if your parents had 300k in taxable non-retirement assets and no real income, you'd only qualify for $5.5k of unsubsidized Stafford loans. Arizona State runs about $20k per year for in state tuition and fees. Your child would have to make at least $15k per year to cover the remaining burden. That's 40 hours a week at minimum wage ($7.25). A Parent PLUS loan probably isn't even an option given the parent has no income. In this sense you could really be leaving your child at a disadvantage if you are wealthy and unwilling to assist because of your own early retirement dream. Making your child bootstrap their own degree with 60 hour weeks between work and school is character building I am sure, but it's also pretty lovely when you have over a $100k in cash assets and a million in retirement. At least loan them the money at 3% interest or something.
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Nov 4, 2013 02:42
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If you can help your kid go to college you should. If you want your kids to have soul crushing debt then go ahead and make them not qualify for loans and not help them. If you want to make it so they have to get good grades that is fine but if you can help and don't.... Paying $1000+ a month on loans is a great time let me tell you. The amount of interest my wife and I have paid makes me shudder at the thought.
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Nov 4, 2013 03:18
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tuyop posted:I really don't see how it's this huge emotional issue for people. My parents bought a cottage instead of paying for my education. This is literally exactly how it was explained to me, and so I joined the army to pay for part of my school (I didn't qualify for public OR private loans) and ruined my back for the rest of my life. I don't feel any resentment toward my parents for this, I have no idea what kind of person I'd be if they hadn't bought the cottage, but I'm very happy now. I don't know how it works in Canada, but if you were to have money and still do this in America, you would screwing over your kid pretty fierce because of the financial aid regulations. It would be absolutely immoral to not contribute to your kid's college funds if you had the means, simply because not doing so would completely ruin their chance at going to university since they'd be ineligible for aid and be unable to afford school most likely (Even a state school without any aid whatsoever costs more than the maximum amount of federal loans you're allowed to take out when you look at housing costs, and any campus work wouldn't start to make a dent in those costs in most places). But even if that's not how it works in Canada, if you simply can't grasp the concept of helping your own child out, then please, don't have kids. For their sake as well as everyone else's who can't stand to see kids grow up with such resentment for no good reason.
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Nov 4, 2013 03:39
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School's a heck of a lot cheaper in Canada than in the states. I'm an extreme case (  , college technical degree) but my diploma program cost about 20k all told, and most of that is living expenses. My parents paid, for what it's worth. (Well I paid most of the third and fourth year myself anyway, since by then I was qualified enough to have decent summer jobs and internships)It was a big sacrifice for my father, and I was aware of that (There's a motivation not to go home at Christmas with bad grades), but it was important to him and my mother that I be able to start adult life with a clean slate. It's a great feeling, and the freedom is amazing. I could have taken a job that paid less than minimum wage coming out of school and it wouldn't have been an issue (Job here including room and board). The occasion of a life time presented itself three years later, and I could afford to take it (They didn't take me, but the girl who got the job is absolutely rocking it and I ended up taking my life in a whole different direction so I have no regrets.) I hope I'll be able to give my kids the same opportunity. Plus in many cultures, it's kind of expected that the kids will take care of the parents in old ages, to varying extent. It just makes sense to me to take care of the kids when they're young, and if you can help them build career opportunity and a sound financial future... Well it's kind of an investment 
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Nov 4, 2013 03:48
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I do think that the most FI thing to do would just not to have kids. But since he already went ahead and did that, I honestly think a logical thing to have done would have been to work one more year, take your income, split it by the amount of kids, and put it in some sort of fund for your kids. College is not going to get cheaper in the future. You can mitigate some of it by strongly suggesting that they go to a community college to start though.
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Nov 4, 2013 05:58
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I went to school twice. The first time, my parents paid and I barely cared. I did the minimum it took to maintain my scholarship and pretty much wasted the time. The second time, I paid for it myself. The money came from my savings and sacrifices, and it hurt my family. I made sure I took it seriously and graduated in top 11% of my class. Somewhere, I think here, I read an idea about back-paying my kids education. My kids will be responsible for finding the money to pay up front, so they'll have to have an understanding of the effort it takes to put that money together. If they maintain a specific GPA, I'll reimburse all of the school-related expenses for that year. Of course, my kids are very young, so my opinion or my options may change before it matters.
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Nov 4, 2013 17:22
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Folly posted:I went to school twice. The first time, my parents paid and I barely cared. I did the minimum it took to maintain my scholarship and pretty much wasted the time. The second time, I paid for it myself. The money came from my savings and sacrifices, and it hurt my family. I made sure I took it seriously and graduated in top 11% of my class. In my ideal scenario, I'd have the money saved for education - either to be spent on education or to be received when they turn 25 (and then, perhaps, subsequently spent on education - it would be up to them). Though this is all theoretical and a long ways off. But if I raised them correctly they'd be able to recognize their self-interest better than I would.
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Nov 4, 2013 17:53
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I just wrote that I had a degree on my resume. edit: Seriously, I'm not sure what I would do about my kids education. I think I can raise kids that legitimately care about education (I didn't start caring until I was much older) and will work hard but I don't think I'll be saving any money to help them pay for it. If I know they plan on going into a good career and will be able to repay the loan I will cosign for them I suppose. I haven't had kids yet though/maybe the future will be different and there will be free schools like in other countries. Sephiroth_IRA fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Nov 4, 2013 |
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Nov 4, 2013 17:56
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I failed out my first year of college, wasting my time and my parents' money. When I went back, my parents would pay for my college, but only after each semester, and only if I got decent grades. So I had to save up enough for one semesters' worth of tuition, and if I dicked around again the cost would be on me (I didn't). I think I may do something similar with my own kids. Pay their way, assuming they get good grades and make progress towards a degree.
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Nov 4, 2013 21:37
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