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Yeah, it can be pretty discouraging when you find out how much people like money mustache actually rake in. Of course financial independence is easier when you have more money. The easiest situation would be inheriting enough money to be set for life, and then it gets progressively harder from there. Learning how to live on 50% of your income at $30k though is theoretically just as effective as living off of 50% at $100k. Sure it's more difficult to do, but if you can pull it off, you're in just as good a spot.
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Nov 6, 2013 23:46
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Chadzok posted:A couple of thoughts here: Yeah we really don't mind living frugally. It's just in our nature. We just... don't really buy stuff. Aren't into gadgets. And most of our hobbies are stuff like fishing, hiking etc, and our friends are the same. Luckily we also have cheap friends:) I actually do have a little bit of a side business but I really spent most of the last couple years getting my feelers out and trying to see what people would buy. I did make about $800 last year. I know I could make more money with almost zero additional investment. Not like "retire from my day job" more, but maybe a couple grand a year. Right now it's a time thing - grad school is a time sink. Thanks for giving me some hope and insights. Not like I'm hopeless but you know. When the people you graduated with are all making 45-60K and my husband and I don't even make that combined, and you read how easy it is to retire early... it's not easy for everyone. And yes we currently do live on about 25-28K a year but like I mentioned, we live rent free. So obviously that saves us a considerable amount.
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Nov 7, 2013 04:24
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razz posted:Thanks for giving me some hope and insights. Not like I'm hopeless but you know. When the people you graduated with are all making 45-60K and my husband and I don't even make that combined, and you read how easy it is to retire early... it's not easy for everyone. And yes we currently do live on about 25-28K a year but like I mentioned, we live rent free. So obviously that saves us a considerable amount. Yeah it sounds like over the next couple of years you're going to feel the squeeze as your lifestyle inflates. What kind of grad school are you going to where your degree is expected to land you a job that makes under 30k? That seems pretty ridiculous.
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Nov 7, 2013 14:09
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I'm a wildlife biologist and the sequester has SERIOUSLY hurt the department of the interior, and therefore a huge percentage of state and federal wildlife jobs have been totally eliminated. It's the same story I get every time I apply - they're getting people with PhDs and 10+ years experience applying for entry-level positions. I'm applying for 28K a year state jobs and they're being snapped up by real professionals with PhDs, it's so sad. It makes me sad that all the funding got cut for wildlife because it's so important and it's my passion. They've reduced a lot of jobs to 6-month contract jobs so they don't have to pay benefits. I could go on about the state of jobs in my field but I won't; suffice to say it's a little bleak and I'm not highly optimistic, having been in this field since 2006 it's only gotten worse. I'm actually considering going back to school to get another Master's degree in Geography. I applied for an entry-level biologist job last week and didn't even get an interview so I emailed the guy and asked if he could give me any comments or critiques on my resume and how I could improve my application. He straight out told me that they're getting an insane amount of applications for entry level positions and my only weakness is due to the sequester and the fact that I'm going up against state and federal employees who are desperate to get a job, any job. There's also the fact that I'm female. You think it wouldn't matter in 2013 but I have been on interviews and nailed all the questions, had all the qualifications, impressed everyone and got nothing but positive comments, and they give the job to a guy who just got his Bachelor's a month ago who has never even had a job in the field. This is not an excuse - this is a real problem in this field and any professional will begrudgingly admit it to you - a lot of people do not and will never welcome women into a "man's job", and they will choose not to hire you simply for that reason and there's nothing I can do about it. I've been told that straight to my face. Anyway sorry for making this a pity party about me. I've always been the go-to sounding board for the wildlife undergrads needing job advice and felt really good about being able to help people; there's no one to give me advice. razz fucked around with this message at 18:05 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 17:55
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SlightlyMadman posted:Yeah, I don't understand why anybody would do that unless they entered some weird alternate reality where savings accounts and money market accounts no longer exist? My checking account is pulling 2% interest. I think my savings account is pulling something pitiful like .2%. It used to be 4%.
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Nov 7, 2013 17:57
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Razz, go to the private sector if you want to make money. Also move west where everything is on public land and needs impact reviews. We basically have HDR on speed dial for all or work (EA, NEPA, field monitors and such).
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Nov 7, 2013 18:12
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spwrozek posted:Razz, go to the private sector if you want to make money. Also move west where everything is on public land and needs impact reviews. We basically have HDR on speed dial for all or work (EA, NEPA, field monitors and such). Yeah this, mobility trumps all.
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Nov 7, 2013 18:19
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TLG James posted:My checking account is pulling 2% interest. I think my savings account is pulling something pitiful like .2%. Sorry, lack of context; I was talking about an emergency fund. There are definitely very valid reasons to put money in a checking account instead of a savings account, and it seems like you've got a great deal on yours.
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Nov 7, 2013 18:30
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spwrozek posted:Razz, go to the private sector if you want to make money. Also move west where everything is on public land and needs impact reviews. We basically have HDR on speed dial for all or work (EA, NEPA, field monitors and such). I would love to move. My husband and I are willing and ready to move anywhere, particularly out West. I compulsively apply to jobs in New Mexico. It would suck to leave the ranch but it can't support us both much longer. I'm not sure how I feel about jobs like you mentioned. Although I'm getting to the point where I can't be picky I suppose. A wildlife friend of mine makes almost 70K a year doing environmental impact stuff for a water treatment plant and she says it kills her soul, watching all the chemicals go into the environment and knowing it's all 100% legal. You test it and say "yep it's contaminated, but it's not too contaminated, send it out into the river". She hates it and says it is making her depressed, she was happier being a field tech making $8 an hour. It would do the same to me; thinking your helping the planet but in reality you're just getting an up-close and personal view of how bad things really are. Am I too pessimistic? I went into this field because of my never ending love for nature. I'm not sure if I could handle watching it legally be destroyed. I am looking heavily into the private sector. I would love to work for a nonprofit, I would love to work for a small company. Those jobs get just as many applications. Two weeks ago I applied for a 27K a year job for Pheasants Forever, a non-profit local conservation group, in the state where I live, doing literally what I got my masters degree to do (assessing impacts on grassland birds from different conservation standpoints). Didn't even get an interview. 27K a year! That's like 12 bucks an hour. And people are FIGHTING over that. Anyway I really don't want to use this thread as a sounding board/job market pity party so I'll leave it at that. razz fucked around with this message at 18:33 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 18:31
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I'll be a little sad knowing razz isn't wandering around the desert looking at birds anymore. Her lifestyle is one of those really interesting ones you don't hear much about these days. I feel like I've picked up on little tidbits here and there that are always intriguing. Edit: suddenly I think I might be confused, I thought you were in the sticks in Arizona already. Might be thinking of someone else. root of all eval fucked around with this message at 18:35 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 18:32
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Your presence there is probably still a net benefit right? We can accept that there is going to be some maximum acceptable pollution floor and after a point mitigating it hurts more than it helps.(Not saying we are close to this now.) If you work at a job like that and don't ever let things slide, the world is better than if someone else has the job and does let things slide. After all, can't it be about doing good and not feeling good? You can agitate for reform at the same time if you want to try and help further. I would only not do it if it made you so miserable that it impacted your life outside of work and you aren't able to perform because of it. (I guess you should make an e/n thread if you want to continue this, no worries either way.)
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Nov 7, 2013 18:38
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I wander around the prairie and look at birds  . Birds are my life. I have done things that most people will never get a chance to do. I've held the wild things in my hands. The thought of giving that up to go test some company's sewage output keeps me up at night.EDIT: Nah, I'm done with the E/N. Maybe I'll just go live in a yurt
razz fucked around with this message at 18:46 on Nov 7, 2013 |
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Nov 7, 2013 18:42
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Well there are a few thoughts on that. One, if you take the sewage job, could you retire that much earlier? Then you could go work for a non-profit or something. Or if you got the job, I'm sure you'd care, and wouldn't be likely to fudge any reports or anything compared to someone else. On the other hand, if you do a job you love, you may not care if you work it your entire life.
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Nov 7, 2013 19:11
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TLG James posted:On the other hand, if you do a job you love, you may not care if you work it your entire life. That's more my style. That's another reason the job market's bad - people don't retire!
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Nov 7, 2013 19:20
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razz posted:EDIT: Nah, I'm done with the E/N. Maybe I'll just go live in a yurt One of us, one of us...
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Nov 7, 2013 20:47
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razz posted:I'm not sure how I feel about jobs like you mentioned. Although I'm getting to the point where I can't be picky I suppose. A wildlife friend of mine makes almost 70K a year doing environmental impact stuff for a water treatment plant and she says it kills her soul, watching all the chemicals go into the environment and knowing it's all 100% legal. You test it and say "yep it's contaminated, but it's not too contaminated, send it out into the river". She hates it and says it is making her depressed, she was happier being a field tech making $8 an hour. It would do the same to me; thinking your helping the planet but in reality you're just getting an up-close and personal view of how bad things really are. Am I too pessimistic? I went into this field because of my never ending love for nature. I'm not sure if I could handle watching it legally be destroyed. Sorry to continue this derail, but I'm a proper hippie. After graduating from my progressive liberal arts university, I got a job in big oil. Now I keep those riggers and fitters safe, I help prevent oil spills and other weather-related disasters. It's immensely satisfying because it has a real impact on the world. We need good people on the inside, otherwise it's just evil all the way down. That's how we're going to change the world.
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Nov 7, 2013 22:41
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Interesting article from MMM about healthcare that I can tie back to a discussion we were having earlier. tl;dr MMM's old plan is going away, as per Obamacare the new max deductible for plans will soon be $5,000 for an individual, not $10,000 like his current plan, so his monthly premium is going up from $237 to $460. $460 is more than I budgeted for monthly healthcare back when I made a hypothetical FI budget (I budgeted $400). Then, some goons felt I was being overly optimistic with my number. So, I'm a naive idiot, right? But wait! Also thanks to Obamacare, are some generous subsidies based on your current income level. For the plan MMM was talking about, they look like this:  So at the $50,000 income level, looks like you'd be paying about $2,300 in premiums annually or ~192/month. That's not bad at all! Of course, the exact number for my family would be different; this particular plan is specific to Colorado for one thing, not to mention it's not going to stay the same forever, I will probably have at least one more kid than MMM does, etc. But, I think this is definitely good news for people targeting FI overall. I imagine most of us probably are going for modest incomes matched with modest expenses, so we'll benefit from the subsidies. Cicero fucked around with this message at 00:09 on Nov 18, 2013 |
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Nov 18, 2013 00:07
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Who the gently caress puts zero on the right side of a graph?
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Nov 18, 2013 14:22
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Perhaps those who prioritize frugality over spending.
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Nov 18, 2013 20:21
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Cicero posted:So at the $50,000 income level, looks like you'd be paying about $2,300 in premiums annually or ~192/month. That's not bad at all! Of course, the exact number for my family would be different; this particular plan is specific to Colorado for one thing, not to mention it's not going to stay the same forever, I will probably have at least one more kid than MMM does, etc. There's subsidies and exemptions built-in to the actual federal law as well which should be available for almost everyone. Here's a website which I've used: http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/
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Nov 19, 2013 00:08
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So, somewhat related question. I'm not interested in retiring early because I really enjoy all the work I'd be doing. What I am interested in, however, is taking 2 years or so off from being employed by other people to work on my own companies with an income to support myself so I can take risks I otherwise couldn't. So, over the next 3-4 years I'd like to save enough to support myself independently for 2 years. Does anyone have advice for planning things like living expense breakdowns etc.? One semi-big issue here is that a lot of my salary is going to be bonus-based (likely I'll make around 40% of my salary in bonus), so it's a little bit hard to tell how much I'll have to spend or do any financial planning. Initially I was figuring I would just save half my salary, but there is probably a more nuanced way to do it.
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Nov 25, 2013 09:24
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semicolonsrock posted:So, somewhat related question. I'm not interested in retiring early because I really enjoy all the work I'd be doing. What I am interested in, however, is taking 2 years or so off from being employed by other people to work on my own companies with an income to support myself so I can take risks I otherwise couldn't. So, over the next 3-4 years I'd like to save enough to support myself independently for 2 years. Just multiply your annual expenses by two. Save that amount in a savings account. Stop working and withdraw your savings at the rate of your expenses, monthly, weekly, whatever.
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Nov 25, 2013 13:36
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semicolonsrock posted:So, somewhat related question. I'm not interested in retiring early because I really enjoy all the work I'd be doing. What I am interested in, however, is taking 2 years or so off from being employed by other people to work on my own companies with an income to support myself so I can take risks I otherwise couldn't. So, over the next 3-4 years I'd like to save enough to support myself independently for 2 years. 1.) You'll have to make some decisions about what to do with your 401k/Roth IRA - ie, at what rate you'll contribute over the next 3-4 years. 2.) Make sure you budget for health care for the two years afterwards.
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Nov 25, 2013 13:52
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I agree with tuyop: just keep track of your annual expenses and multiply by 2. That's how much you need to save. You can potentially fudge it a bit and save some time by pledging to live more frugally after you quit your job, but that's risky; it's always easy to say you'll forgo expenses in advance of actually doing so. quote:One semi-big issue here is that a lot of my salary is going to be bonus-based (likely I'll make around 40% of my salary in bonus), so it's a little bit hard to tell how much I'll have to spend Cicero fucked around with this message at 20:39 on Nov 25, 2013 |
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Nov 25, 2013 20:36
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Cicero posted:I agree with tuyop: just keep track of your annual expenses and multiply by 2. That's how much you need to save. I think he means that he could save the amount needed sooner by using his bonus, but I really don't think it matters when the question is simply "how much".
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Nov 25, 2013 21:02
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This has been making the rounds, even saw it pop up on Google News' Spotlight for a bit: http://www.marketwatch.com/story/how-to-retire-early-35-years-early-2014-01-17 Yet another article about MMM, yet more internet comments that make you want to pound your brain in. quote:If this guy and his family want to live like the Amish, then that's his choice. It's not for me. You can keep your horse, buggy and bicycle. Where I live in MN, you've got 5 months of cold buggy and bike riding. quote:I can retire if I want and produce 25k. I'm 40, but i would like to give my 2 Maltese dogs a better life, so I work quote:"One secret to their success? They live on very little for a family of three: about $25,000 a year. They own a car, but mostly bike. Dining out is an occasional luxury. And shopping for stuff? That’s best avoided. But their philosophy goes beyond mere scrimping, says Mr. Money Mustache. It’s about enjoying life with less."
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Jan 22, 2014 21:03
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Cicero posted:
I work full time so I can afford to do nothing some of the time. I'd love to be able to take a month long kayak/camping trip 'just cause'. One day... 
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Jan 22, 2014 23:54
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Ha, love this comment: "he's basically a millionaire, which is poor man's financial independence these days.... at any rate, he's not buying a yacht or taking huge vacations any time soon so he's hardly financially independent..."
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Jan 23, 2014 00:20
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I stopped reading MMM's blog because he's said really all there is to say. He makes a lot of money on his blog, and seems happy, but it got too preachy for me with most of his new articles. It's like he's literally out of ideas, so when he's doing crap like moving to a smaller house, he has to use 6 paragraphs to say that it'll save him money and how the family unit should be in smaller houses to be closer to each other and go to the park and other crap. His old articles are pretty good though. edit: Oh god why did I read the comments. Someone saying that the guy who bikes everywhere is going to have long term health issues. Yep.... TLG James fucked around with this message at 08:37 on Jan 23, 2014 |
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Jan 23, 2014 08:32
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He's just a bit of a hypocrite now, because while he seems to have started out completely honestly and legitimately, he's basically come out of retirement to work his new job as a super famous blogger who makes an undisclosed but presumably huge amount of money by blogging about how you don't need to make money.
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Jan 23, 2014 15:29
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SlightlyMadman posted:He's just a bit of a hypocrite now, because while he seems to have started out completely honestly and legitimately, he's basically come out of retirement to work his new job as a super famous blogger who makes an undisclosed but presumably huge amount of money by blogging about how you don't need to make money. I don't know how we can fault him for this. He has solid advice, and he's using his fame to make more money. I say, "more power to him."
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Jan 23, 2014 15:34
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I don't know if using your fame to spread a message that you deeply believe in is "selling out", even if you do collect a fee for spreading it.
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Jan 23, 2014 15:38
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SlightlyMadman posted:He's just a bit of a hypocrite now, because while he seems to have started out completely honestly and legitimately, he's basically come out of retirement to work his new job as a super famous blogger who makes an undisclosed but presumably huge amount of money by blogging about how you don't need to make money. This is the "he's not really retired" argument again, right? That's kinda been done. The point is that if you reduce your spending down to $25k per year, then you can generate that from a $600k nest egg. Any work or other income you have is optional. If someone kept giving me money to tell people my ideas, it would be really hard for me to walk way too. I mean here I am, just giving them away for free. Also, you guys quit reading the comments too early (emphasis mine): Jarome Barry posted:A key part of living with income below the "poverty line" for a family of your size, is that you leverage the welfare state to collect benefits which can triple your spending. Let the welfare pay for your house, your food, your medical, and your telephone. That $25K income from investments is just used for the bling. 
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Jan 23, 2014 15:40
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Folly posted:Also, you guys quit reading the comments too early (emphasis mine): Sweet, all I need to earn $25k a day is some software to predict the stock market. Can I pick that up on Amazon or what? With regards to MMM's blog wealth, it may reach a point where he feels a little ridiculous accumulating as much wealth as he is without either spending it or giving it to charity. I believe it's been alluded to that he's bringing in $80k+ in revenue from the blog, so he's probably pretty close to the point of a 4% safe withdrawal being twice his claimed annual expenditures. He's going to have an existential crisis or something.
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Jan 23, 2014 15:59
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SlightlyMadman posted:He's just a bit of a hypocrite now, because while he seems to have started out completely honestly and legitimately, he's basically come out of retirement to work his new job as a super famous blogger who makes an undisclosed but presumably huge amount of money by blogging about how you don't need to make money.
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Jan 23, 2014 16:59
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Cicero posted:The whole point of financial independence isn't that you do zero work, it's that any work you do is chosen without the implicit coercion of "I have to do this or I won't be able to afford rent." Besides, writing roughly one blog post a week doesn't exactly strike me as a time-consuming endeavor. He probably spends what, a few hours a week actually writing? If he's not buying a yachts or taking huge vacations all the time, he's hardly retired...  Regarding the massive blog bucks. I'm pretty sure he mentioned somewhere that he donates all the income from the blog to charity.
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Jan 23, 2014 17:07
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Not to mention he probably enjoys it. Also he definitely posts less when he's on vacation or off doing something.
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Jan 23, 2014 17:08
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quote:I bet he thought this was a grand idea at age 30, but he's going to find out how stupid it was at around age 50 when inflation, a sickness, kids in college, catch up with them, no one will hire him since his skills are outdated and he will be looking at age discrimination everywhere he goes. $25k a year is NOTHING. I make that much in a month of work and over half of it goes into savings. Then again, I guess we're all lazy if we don't spend money on things we don't have to: quote:@Greg Gyetko @Alexander Thadius He IS Lazy. He is unwilling to work or use energy.
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Jan 23, 2014 17:12
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Ok which one of you goons made that? That has to be a troll. "He is so lazy he makes his own food and rides a bike instead of eating out and driving a car" 
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Jan 23, 2014 17:15
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Guys, please tell me how to become a TIGHTER. 
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