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Engineer Lenk posted:I figured Luscheck bought it to save himself the hassle. Of course, that makes sense. I thought he just discovered it there, but now that I think back it was in a plastic bag which makes sense if he just bought it.
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Jul 19, 2013 21:50
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TheBalor posted:Piper forgot the screwdriver in her pocket. Boo started using it as a dildo handle. The shop guy secretly replaced it because if it turned up in a prisoner's hands, he would be fired. Boo then later gave the dildo-screw back to Piper. That was a great "twist". You assume she's going to use it on one of the other inmates, but nah, she's just jerking off with it.
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Jul 19, 2013 22:11
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This show is so amazing, goddamn. Agree with everyone else who said Piper is the least interesting part of her own show. Not Taylor Schilling's fault, it's just the character. By the end, when she's so desperate for any relationship that she's literally practically begging someone to love her, she did get a little more interesting.
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Jul 19, 2013 23:07
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Holy poo poo the yoga lady is Patti Mayonnaise
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Jul 19, 2013 23:28
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zoux posted:Here's my post on the show from the chat thread: Thanks for posting this. I hoped it would show how truly hosed-up prison is (for everyone), but it's a really about a coddled audience/author insert who is dropped into a fishtank full of zany characters from the wrong side of town. Every "other" on the show is just a puzzle that Piper solves by befriending them or trying really hard to help them. She tells her mom "I'm no different from anyone here!", but this is laughably hollow. She has a mom that actually visits (pointed out by a fellow inmate), Healey has a completely different set of expectations for her, her fiance indirectly gets her out of SHU ("those liberal types have connections"  ). I half expect the show to end with her having connected literally everyone at the prison and they clap as and cry as she is released.That being said, it's entertaining as hell. It's nice to see Mulgrew again and I actually really like Vause. I look forward to binging S2 
hillaryous clinton fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 00:19
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maninacape posted:Thanks for posting this. I hoped it would show how truly hosed-up prison is (for everyone), but it's a really about a coddled audience/author insert who is dropped into a fishtank full of zany characters from the wrong side of town. Every "other" on the show is just a puzzle that Piper solves by befriending them or trying really hard to help them. She tells her mom "I'm no different from anyone here!", but this is laughably hollow. She has a mom that actually visits (pointed out by a fellow inmate), Healey has a completely different set of expectations for her, her fiance indirectly gets out of SHU ("those liberal types have connections" Yeah I had the same hopes going in, so I don't know how much my expectations affect my enjoyment. As a dramedy about a rich girl in prison it's just fine, but as an introspective look at how class, race and privilege divide us and affect us, nope.
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Jul 20, 2013 01:18
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Here's a pretty great audio interview with Kate Mulgrew about the show: http://getglue.com/conversation/pollyway/2013-07-20T01:39:44Z?s=tc&ref=pollyway
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Jul 20, 2013 02:49
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ymgve posted:Of course, that makes sense. I thought he just discovered it there, but now that I think back it was in a plastic bag which makes sense if he just bought it. Not just a plastic bag, but a Home Depot bag.
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Jul 20, 2013 03:15
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zoux posted:Yeah I had the same hopes going in, so I don't know how much my expectations affect my enjoyment. As a dramedy about a rich girl in prison it's just fine, but as an introspective look at how class, race and privilege divide us and affect us, nope. Why can't it be a dramedy about a rich girl in prison that's occasionally insightful about how class, race and privilege divide us and affect us? Why does it have to be completely devoted to being introspective about those issues? There isn't a single show on television that doesn't compromise it's treatment of 'issues' in favour of being entertaining (except maybe Treme, but Treme has it's own bizaare agenda). I'm not really sure what people who are criticizing this show on 'issues' expect. It's based on a memoir by a real rich white girl so they are limited on that front. Minimum security prisons are more like high schools than the thunderdome so expecting oz-style brutality or 24-style hypertension is ridiculous. There isn't a single character that's had significant screen time that isn't amongst the most fully formed in all television. Yoga Jones got more character development in about 3 minutes of screen time than Skylar White has gotten in six seasons of Breaking Bad. If you don't like the show then whatever but unless you can point out a show that does a better job of treating the issues you criticize then I'm at a loss.
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Jul 20, 2013 05:33
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Well the Gold Standard is obviously The Wire. But as far as class and race you have Deadwood, Mad Men, Justified, The Shield, off the top of my head. It can't be a dramedy that occasionally dips into serious issues because when it does it's completely tone deaf and laughably superficial. But you then you cited Skylar White of all characters to make a point about lack of character development, so, I don't know man.
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Jul 20, 2013 05:45
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zoux posted:Well the Gold Standard is obviously The Wire. But as far as class and race you have Deadwood, Mad Men, Justified, The Shield, off the top of my head. Mad Men is appalling when it comes to issues of race/class. Ridiculously so. It took five seasons for them to introduce a regular character of color. The episode in the latest season with the black burglar is one of the most blatantly racist things put on television in the last decade. The only characters who have shown any sort of interest in minority or poverty issues were both reduced to jokes (Abe and Kinsey). Justified does a decent job of addressing rural poverty sometimes but just as often play stereotypes for laughs (anything involving Dewey Crowe). It's terrible when it comes to Eva and her sex workers. Deadwood and The Shield were quality shows but they dealt almost entirely with members of a privileged elite (relative to their settings). The Wire was fantastic for it's portrayal of urban poverty and the drug culture but the example everyone points to for how insightful it is -- Omar -- is a straight up fantastical magical negro stereotype who is incidentally gay. Even Kima is only superficially female. There is almost nothing about her character that would need to be changed if you replaced her with a male actor. I enjoy all of those shows and think they are all very good to sublime but none of them should be held out as exemplars of shows that deal with issues of privilege. That doesn't mean that Orange is the New Black should be elevated above them or forgiven it's failings for doing a better job on that front but it means dismissing it because of that is completely unfair. the talent deficit fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 06:46
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Aatrek posted:Here's a pretty great audio interview with Kate Mulgrew about the show: http://getglue.com/conversation/pollyway/2013-07-20T01:39:44Z?s=tc&ref=pollyway zoux posted:Well the Gold Standard is obviously The Wire. But as far as class and race you have Deadwood, Mad Men, Justified, The Shield, off the top of my head. TheRationalRedditor fucked around with this message at 06:57 on Jul 20, 2013 |
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Jul 20, 2013 06:54
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the talent deficit posted:
Ok I was kind of with you on this post until here--Omar is a ridiculous character but what the hell are you saying about Kima? She's superficially female? You mean she's a cop and she dates women so she might as well be a man? Please elaborate. And if you're saying The Wire has less to say about race and class than Orange is the New Black you need to get your head checked. Can we talk about more important things though? Specifically, Jason Biggs' character being the most loathsome thing I've seen on TV all year.
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Jul 20, 2013 08:39
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Wax Lion posted:Can we talk about more important things though? Specifically, Jason Biggs' character being the most loathsome thing I've seen on TV all year. Not only loathsome, but also incredibly boring. And after the way the season ended it's going to be an irritating stretch to keep him involved next year, but you know they're going to have to do it.
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Jul 20, 2013 11:21
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Oh my god what is going to happen to pipes
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Jul 20, 2013 11:28
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ShakeZula posted:Not only loathsome, but also incredibly boring. And after the way the season ended it's going to be an irritating stretch to keep him involved next year, but you know they're going to have to do it. Yeah plus the whole constant flashback scene overuse sometimes slowed down the momentum of the episodes.
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Jul 20, 2013 14:03
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I know the title is justified somewhat in the book, but it still amuses me that it's Orange is the New Black, given that most of the inmates wear khaki.
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Jul 20, 2013 14:41
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ShakeZula posted:Not only loathsome, but also incredibly boring. And after the way the season ended it's going to be an irritating stretch to keep him involved next year, but you know they're going to have to do it. At least he's not as bad as Piper's brother who exists only to impart wisdom on Jason Biggs
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Jul 20, 2013 16:33
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I'm half way through this show and it's pretty entertaining for me so far. It's been a really long time since I watched Lilyhammer but its sort of similar. I like this more then LilyHammer which I really enjoyed. Both have the out of place main character in a strange land.
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Jul 20, 2013 17:57
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I think some are looking for too much from this show. I took it as a show in the mold of Weeds, Shameless, Californication, and other "dramadies". It's light-hearted for the most part, gets its jokes in, but then throws a dramatic scene in from time to time. It's a formula that's been used a lot today. The show is good though. If you threw it on Showtime's schedule it'd fit right in which says that Netflix is producing quality content. Cordyceps posted:Agree with everyone else who said Piper is the least interesting part of her own show. Not Taylor Schilling's fault, it's just the character. By the end, when she's so desperate for any relationship that she's literally practically begging someone to love her, she did get a little more interesting. I don't know if this was the writers' intent, but I found her to be the least likable character in the end. She never did anything for anyone that didn't benefit her in some way. Almost everyone did something out of the goodness of their heart throughout the season except her. She was like a child who wanted everything her way and then had a fit when it didn't happen. Maybe that's what they were going for and the show will center around her change. But I've been surprised at people I've talked to who didn't think by the end that she was the villain.
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Jul 20, 2013 18:35
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I thought it was fairly clear that the writers were exposing her flaws over the course of the season. She's the most sympathetic when we only see things from her perspective, and know relatively little about her, as the series progresses that wears away. As mentioned before to, a big theme has been getting to know yourself while incarcerated, and while it's debatable how much Piper learned about herself, we certainly learn a lot about who she is. But it's also not surprising that a lot of people would miss that. Look at the way people reacted to Tony Soprano, Vic Mackey and Walter White. There is a good chuck of viewers who think main character=good person, and accept everything they do without critique. It doesn't help that Piper is a pretty white girl, and to be fair, Piper is not nearly as morally depraved or despicable as those 3. e: I guess it's also hard to call Piper the "villain" when Pornstache, Healy and Pennsatucky are all running around.
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Jul 20, 2013 19:30
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Stereotype posted:Oh my god what is going to happen to pipes Probably another 20 years
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Jul 20, 2013 19:45
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The Rooster posted:I thought it was fairly clear that the writers were exposing her flaws over the course of the season. She's the most sympathetic when we only see things from her perspective, and know relatively little about her, as the series progresses that wears away. As mentioned before to, a big theme has been getting to know yourself while incarcerated, and while it's debatable how much Piper learned about herself, we certainly learn a lot about who she is. I don't agree with that. As the series goes on a lot of the characters become sympathetic but don't forget that at the beginning Red was starving her out and Crazy Eyes was stalking her.
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Jul 20, 2013 19:52
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zoux posted:Yeah I had the same hopes going in, so I don't know how much my expectations affect my enjoyment. As a dramedy about a rich girl in prison it's just fine, but as an introspective look at how class, race and privilege divide us and affect us, nope. I don't think it's even going for that. Beyond kind of a mocking and superficial view of Piper and her fiance's privileged (and just as ridiculously unrealistic as any sitcom set in NYC ever was) white people lifestyle that never really moved into being actually critical it doesn't even touch on that stuff. What it does do is try to humanize the other prisoners by showing us their backstory, and that's far more what I think the show is going for. I certainly can't blame anyone for criticizing it with regard to the race/class/privilege thing since it dips its toes into it so often but never really dives in, but it's also not what the show is about.
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Jul 20, 2013 19:56
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mistermojo posted:I don't agree with that. As the series goes on a lot of the characters become sympathetic but don't forget that at the beginning Red was starving her out and Crazy Eyes was stalking her. But these facts don't make Piper any less selfish, narcissistic or emotional manipulative.
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Jul 20, 2013 20:07
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Trap Star posted:Probably another 20 years These shows do a good job of writing around these things. My guess is it's all blown over by the 3rd episode. Healy doesn't report it because he would have to admit to ignoring the initial threat. Piper struggles with the guilt of it and whether to turn herself in. Pensatucky gets the new teeth she's wanted and is happy with that.
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Jul 20, 2013 20:31
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Niwrad posted:I don't know if this was the writers' intent, but I found her to be the least likable character in the end. She never did anything for anyone that didn't benefit her in some way. Almost everyone did something out of the goodness of their heart throughout the season except her. She was like a child who wanted everything her way and then had a fit when it didn't happen. The best line in the entire show sums this up pretty well. "I'm scared that I'm not myself in here, and I'm scared that I am"
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Jul 20, 2013 22:23
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zoux posted:That was a great "twist". You assume she's going to use it on one of the other inmates, but nah, she's just jerking off with it. Wasn't the implication that she was going to use it on Tricia because she repeatedly antagonized her about the ex who got out whose name I can't remember? (Mercy?) Since she didn't do that, she just used it as a dildo. That's how I read that episode. Anyway, I thought that it was easily the strongest of Netflix's drama offerings. It worked a lot better than House of Cards, since it gave shrift and reasons to care to more than two characters throughout the season. I'm looking forward to the next one.
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Jul 20, 2013 23:38
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The Rooster posted:But these facts don't make Piper any less selfish, narcissistic or emotional manipulative. But the fact that she's selfish, narcissistic, and manipulative doesn't make her less sympathetic to me. She's damaged—perhaps broken—and that only makes her more human. She hasn't done a single thing besides kick the poo poo out of Pennsyltucky that I can't see myself do.
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Jul 21, 2013 00:53
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We'll have to agree to disagree on that. She's very much a compelling character, and is by no means some sort of moral sinkhole, but as the series wore on, she began to fall somewhere in between the honest to god villains and the rest of the cast.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:00
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I don't see a ton of air between Piper and all of the other antihero protagonist setups on television except that she's a woman.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:05
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jeffersonlives posted:I don't see a ton of air between Piper and all of the other antihero protagonist setups on television except that she's a woman. Well she hasn't smothered her nephew to death so she has that going for her. (Sopranos spoiler)
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Jul 21, 2013 01:07
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I'm actually sort of wracking my brain trying to figure out what she's done that's irredeemable. Healy had those harsh words coming to him, she stuck her neck out because she felt awful about what she'd done to Pennsyltucky, and her feelings for Alex struck me as genuine. Yeah, she cheated, but good people cheat all of the time. I'm not being facetious: could you tell me if I've missed something?
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Jul 21, 2013 01:09
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KidDetective posted:I'm actually sort of wracking my brain trying to figure out what she's done that's irredeemable. Maybe I missed something, where did I say irredeemable?
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Jul 21, 2013 01:10
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KidDetective posted:I'm actually sort of wracking my brain trying to figure out what she's done that's irredeemable. Healy had those harsh words coming to him, she stuck her neck out because she felt awful about what she'd done to Pennsyltucky, and her feelings for Alex struck me as genuine. Yeah, she cheated, but good people cheat all of the time. I think it's just people buying Piper's ready condemnation of herself, and characters like Larry, Alex and Suzanne telling her she's a bad person. I think these people have missed a trick: Piper is starting to think she's a horrible person, but most of that's a direct result of Alex, who is an emotionally abusive rear end in a top hat, constantly berating her and telling her how selfish she is. There are several scenes where Piper is in the right, Alex is in the wrong, and Alex reframes the situation as Piper being selfish/inconsiderate/narcissistic. Piper ends up internalising all this, and telling it to the camera now and then, but based on her actual behaviour, it's not very true at all.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:13
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Yeah, Piper comes across to me as a well-intentioned but emotionally-flawed person, not even really close to a villain. The two worst things we've seen her do (leave a grieving Alex and cheat on Larry) both suck, but she feels and expresses genuine remorse about them on some level. If anything, the revenge those two took on her for those actions really cross the line to me.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:18
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She clearly tries her best and never intentionally tries to make others feel bad, yet often does. I have found myself relating to her extremely well in this way. Her scene with Dinah the troubled youth and her calm response to her mother that she is just like everyone else are both extremely humble and meaningful, and are justification enough to be "on her side".
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Jul 21, 2013 01:29
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Patrovsky posted:I know the title is justified somewhat in the book, but it still amuses me that it's Orange is the New Black, given that most of the inmates wear khaki. Wasn't there a line early on where someone (Red?) said to Piper that once she's out of orange she'll be old news? I mean, I guess we didn't see new inmates coming in that often (ever? Tastee came back in orange I guess). Then again, that would have been sorta boring. Oh, a new inmate is here! This one killed her boyfriend! Watch how Piper and her initially clash, but then get along! It's kinda nice that things stayed relatively constant. A question: isn't this a federal prison? Why are some of the inmates there? Like Janae, wasn't she arrested for robbing a convenience store? Or is it not actually a federal prison? Did they show how Red got arrested? I know there were some crazy Russians storing stuff in the freezer (?) Did I miss a scene? Was that it and we were just supposed to figure out that's why she was arrested?
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Jul 21, 2013 01:35
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I think you guys have got it right. I should also say that I also really like Alex, while acknowledging she's acted poorly. She never fully got over Piper, that much is clear. She's pretty much just acting like someone who's had their heart broken pretty badly. Some speculation: Piper will come around. That's the romance that'll stick. I'd be surprised if Jason Biggs makes it to season three. KidDetective fucked around with this message at 01:51 on Jul 21, 2013 |
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Jul 21, 2013 01:48
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myron cope posted:Wasn't there a line early on where someone (Red?) said to Piper that once she's out of orange she'll be old news? I mean, I guess we didn't see new inmates coming in that often (ever? Tastee came back in orange I guess). Then again, that would have been sorta boring. Oh, a new inmate is here! This one killed her boyfriend! Watch how Piper and her initially clash, but then get along! It's kinda nice that things stayed relatively constant. It definitely is a federal prison, as Larry explains early on that's why there aren't any conjugal visits. Not sure about Janae, though her crime definitely doesn't seem federal. Maybe they robbed someplace that made it federal? Red's story confused me as well, since her first flashback episode ended with the leaders of the mob pissed at her and storing a body in the freezer, and the second obviously took place after the first (the mobsters knew who she was and she was more comfortable around them), so I suspect the body came and went and she was arrested for something we haven't yet seen.
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Jul 21, 2013 01:49
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