|
DivineCoffeeBinge posted:Hard to give Johns the blame for Identity Crisis, written by Brad Beltzer, and Final Crisis, written by Grant Morrison. Just saying.
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 15:07
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:00 |
|
|
I had no idea Dave Goyer was a conservative.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 17:19
|
|
El Gallinero Gros posted:I had no idea Dave Goyer was a conservative. The Dark Knight is a thinly veiled defense of the Patriot Act, and The Dark Knight Rises is gently caress Poor People: The Movie.
|
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 17:35
|
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:The Dark Knight is a thinly veiled defense of the Patriot Act, and The Dark Knight Rises is gently caress Poor People: The Movie. Goyer had nothing to do with Rises. But the Nolan brothers are also mega conservatives, so...
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 21:25
|
|
|
TheJoker138 posted:Goyer had nothing to do with Rises. But the Nolan brothers are also mega conservatives, so... Story by Christopher Nolan, David S. Goyer.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 21:34
|
|
|
chime_on posted:Story by Christopher Nolan, David S. Goyer. It doesn't take much to get a story credit, and by all accounts from the people who actually worked on it he was hardly involved other than some brain storming sessions at the very start of production. He was busy writing Man of Steel for most of it. The script itself was written by the Nolan brothers, and was never touched by Goyer.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 21:38
|
|
|
TheJoker138 posted:Goyer had nothing to do with Rises. But the Nolan brothers are also mega conservatives, so... On the other hand, Rush Limbaugh claimed the movie was obviously biased towards leftists because the villain is called Bane and Mitt Romney was head of a private equity firm called Bain. 
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 21:43
|
|
|
Metal Loaf posted:On the other hand, Rush Limbaugh claimed the movie was obviously biased towards leftists because the villain is called Bane and Mitt Romney was head of a private equity firm called Bain. Rush Limbaugh didn't know the X-Men movie was based on a preexisting property when it first came out, him having no loving clue who Bane was isn't surprising.
|
|
#
?
May 1, 2014 21:54
|
|
|
SALT CURES HAM posted:The Dark Knight is a thinly veiled defense of the Patriot Act It really, really isn't. In fact, thinking it is a defence is pretty much missing the point of that scene and most of the movie.
|
|
#
?
May 2, 2014 13:24
|
|
|
I don't know, extremely invasive surveillance methods are developed and sold to the military and then used to save lives and stop crime. Sure, Lucius Fox pouts for about a minute and quits his job (IMPACT!) and then it shows that Bruce had rigged them to self-destruct after he was done with his thing. The message seems to be "Trust people who are spying on you, because we deserve to be spied on - and they really, seriously promise they won't use this sweeping power for evil"
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 11:20
|
|
|
That's a bit of a stretch, especially in a film about a self-appointed vigilante who breaks about 200 laws every day.
|
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 13:15
|
|
|
Yeah, the richest guy in the room makes himself into "the hero we deserve", ignores the laws but enforces them upon everyone else, and sets up a total panopticon by ignoring the idea that someone else could have a right to privacy. But it's okay because he's fighting the sneakiest snake guys and when that mission is accomplished it'll be turned right off honest. There's no political allegory there.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 16:26
|
|
|
Mr. Maltose posted:Yeah, the richest guy in the room makes himself into "the hero we deserve", ignores the laws but enforces them upon everyone else, and sets up a total panopticon by ignoring the idea that someone else could have a right to privacy. But it's okay because he's fighting the sneakiest snake guys and when that mission is accomplished it'll be turned right off honest. That's not like real life at all. Because at the end he actually destroys the machine.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 16:36
|
|
|
Obviously we haven't found the Joker that is terrorism yet, okay? It is a work in progress.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 16:37
|
|
|
Actually, I've been researching this recently - there's a few academic papers on the war on terror symbolism in The Dark Knight. Batman says that spying is bad, knowingly risks his friendship with Fox over it, and it still doesn't bring him closure. Even after he's used it to find the Joker, he still has his emotional truama and pain. The machine might have saved lives, but it didn't really help in the long run. People realize that in The Dark Knight Rises, Bane was only pretending to be a socialist hero of the people right? It was all an act to stop the population from resisting his invasion - he always planned to oppress and destroy them, he just pretended to be a far left revolutionary to secure Gotham.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 18:32
|
|
|
OldMemes posted:Actually, I've been researching this recently - there's a few academic papers on the war on terror symbolism in The Dark Knight. Yes, I think most people are aware that Dark Knight Rises was showing the Occupy movement as being a bunch of horrible people led by a person who really just wanted to destroy the real common folks via lies and deceit via it's version of Bane.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 19:10
|
|
|
TheJoker138 posted:Yes, I think most people are aware that Dark Knight Rises was showing the Occupy movement as being a bunch of horrible people led by a person who really just wanted to destroy the real common folks via lies and deceit via it's version of Bane. Bane was a Republican?
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 19:16
|
|
|
Vincent posted:Bane was a Republican? No, Bane was what republicans seem to genuinely think things like the Occupy movement is. A bunch of radicals who want to do nothing but blow up society because they are evil, and are deluding the young people who join the movement into thinking it's for a better world.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 19:18
|
|
|
I forgot to quote the eaxact part of your post:TheJoker138 posted:(...) a person who really just wanted to destroy the real common folks via lies and deceit
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 19:21
|
|
|
TheJoker138 posted:No, Bane was what republicans seem to genuinely think things like the Occupy movement is. A bunch of radicals who want to do nothing but blow up society because they are evil, and are deluding the young people who join the movement into thinking it's for a better world. I believe Chuck Dixon described Bane as "the ultimate Occupier" around the time the movie came out, for what that's worth.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 20:08
|
|
|
OldMemes posted:
That is actually a really big talking point about socialism. That its just a lie to gain complete control over society. Granted this works with anything but that doesn't phase some people.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 20:52
|
|
|
TheJoker138 posted:He was busy writing Man of Steel for most of it. Ah, Man of Steel, in which Superman's powerful sight and hearing grant him enormous surveillance power, but when normal people try to keep tabs on him or where he goes or what he's doing he shoots their drone down, saying "Just trust me, I'll do the right thing! On my terms."
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 22:37
|
|
|
qntm posted:Ah, Man of Steel, in which Superman's powerful sight and hearing grant him enormous surveillance power, but when normal people try to keep tabs on him or where he goes or what he's doing he shoots their drone down, saying "Just trust me, I'll do the right thing! On my terms." That's literally every single superhero.
|
|
#
?
May 3, 2014 23:53
|
|
|
That's literally the core dilemma in every superhero story - do they use their powers to help humanity, regardless of the cost, or do they use them for selfish gain? It's pretty hardwritten into the genre.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 00:14
|
|
|
muscles like this? posted:That's literally every single superhero. Superheroes are pretty libertarian if you think about it. Which would make Ditko proud I suppose.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 01:03
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:That's a bit of a stretch, especially in a film about a self-appointed vigilante who breaks about 200 laws every day. Think about it, when was the last time Batman gave evidence in court?
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 01:04
|
|
|
And in Man of Steel specifically, his so-called "surveillance powers" are only ever shown to be a disorienting, literally painful burden that even his enemies shield themselves against and require great strength of will to suppress and focus. The only force in the film that misuses its surveillance powers are the US government in a way rather distressingly parallel to current events.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 01:17
|
|
Say Nothing posted:I think Gotham's problems were probably due to the fact that they couldn't convict anyone who Batman caught. Harvey Dent figured out a great solution for that!  Whatever happened to the guy, anyway?
|
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 01:24
|
|
|
So like most people, I have immense respect for Bruce Timm and Paul Dini for their contributions to the DC animated universe and cartoons in general, and they both wrote/drew some amazing comics in their time. The modern interpretation of Batman might owe more to them than to anyone else, really. Having said that, I recently got my hands on the Harley and Ivy mini-series they did some years back, and now I'm kind of glad they had to work around censors most of the time.  Jesus christ, fellas. This isn't exactly what I signed up for when I bought this.
|
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 12:30
|
|
|
Who the gently caress buys a comic about Harley and Ivy made by Dini not expecting fan fic?
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 12:43
|
|
Alhazred posted:Who the gently caress buys a comic about Harley and Ivy made by Dini not expecting fan fic? Most people? I definitely wasn't expecting tentacle porn, at least. I wasn't too surprised to see some cheesecake, but this is just ridiculous and kind of embarrassing to own.
|
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 12:54
|
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Most people? I definitely wasn't expecting tentacle porn, at least. And now you have learned a valuable lesson, Dini and Timm equals this:  
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 14:10
|
|
|
That's the same comic.
|
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 14:10
|
|
|
Adult Illiteracy posted:I don't know, extremely invasive surveillance methods are developed and sold to the military and then used to save lives and stop crime. Sure, Lucius Fox pouts for about a minute and quits his job (IMPACT!) and then it shows that Bruce had rigged them to self-destruct after he was done with his thing. The message seems to be "Trust people who are spying on you, because we deserve to be spied on - and they really, seriously promise they won't use this sweeping power for evil" The decision to use the machine is directly related to the realisation at the end that he's not really the symbol of hope he wanted to be.
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 19:37
|
|
|
massive spider posted:The decision to use the machine is directly related to the realisation at the end that he's not really the symbol of hope he wanted to be. But the whole point of the ending is that's kind of explicitly a good thing because now everyone is so fed up with all this super crime that they WILLINGLY give up their freedoms by the time the third movie comes around. The Dent Act or whatever it was called that basically let Gotham PD bend the law to do whatever they thought necessary to catch criminals and we're basically told that that's a Good thing because 'Wow, Gotham city has never been safer!' Not that I mind that because it's kind of interesting twist to Harvey's legacy. Works his whole life trying to change the world for the better while staying inside the bounds of the law, becomes the villain and dies, and then his name is used on a new law that basically destroys the justice he tried to uphold. That's a pretty interesting story, but the movie doesn't care about it so we get 2+ hours of dumb speeches from Bane that don't make sense and are total lies anyway so they don't matter in the long run. ZenMasterBullshit fucked around with this message at 03:25 on May 5, 2014 |
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 19:54
|
|
|
Alhazred posted:And now you have learned a valuable lesson, Dini and Timm equals this: That's not near as bad as that borderline porn scene posted earlier. (Also those are quite funny)
|
|
#
?
May 4, 2014 21:29
|
|
|
I like Timm and Dini's work even if it is a bit problematic, to day the least. Still classier than New 52. Any good books to read about the comic industry in the 90s, I'm probably going to pick up that Marvel:The Untold Story on my nook or something. But anything about other parts of the industry I find it fascinating. I didn't think Flashpoint was awful, the main story line I thought was really well done and I enjoyed it (which means nothing in terms of quality). Some of the side stories though are more than a bit off putting though.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 16:11
|
|
|
KomradeX posted:I like Timm and Dini's work even if it is a bit problematic, to day the least. Still classier than New 52.
|
|
#
?
May 5, 2014 17:26
|
|
|
Endless Mike posted:There's also Comic Wars: Marvel's Battle for Survival by Dan Raviv, though as I understand, it's a bit embellished. If you want a book with a lot of weird projection and discussion of what plucky Ike Perlmutter whistled to himself as he went up the elevator on a brisk March afternoon to see Avi Arad watching Seinfeld and thinking back to his time in the 1950s at a little cabin as he says to himself "Ike, you need to remember what your momma told you" even though he didn't even interview anyone so he's basically making up cheesy backstory out of whole cloth, this book is for you. It's hilarious in retrospect how he does his best to portray Perlmutter as a "plucky David" just trying to make ends meet in the face of BIG CORPORATE FATCATS, and it's a struggle to make Perlmutter seem sympathetic. Even one of the cute "plucky common man Ike" stories involves him making money when he first moved to New York by pretending to be an Orthodox Rabbi and loitering outside cemeteries waiting to get hired to do mourner's kaddishes. Also it has tons of basic factual errors too, like how Ron Perelman decided to buy Marvel in 1989 based on how successful gimmick covers and 1991's X-Men #1 and 1992's Atlantis Attacks (the first real crossover event) were. Or how Marvel faced tough competition from their longtime rival, Todd McFarlane's Image Comics.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2014 00:41
|
|
|
|
| # ? Apr 28, 2024 17:00 |
|
|
Lurdiak posted:Harvey Dent figured out a great solution for that! Is that Steve Dillon art? Those are Steve Dillon eyes.
|
|
#
?
May 6, 2014 01:36
|
|
