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wiegieman posted:The Boston lockdown/ CFD thing was an attempt to recapture that style but it failed because CGL doesn't pay for good writers and tried to do weird multimedia stuff with it. I forgot about that body snatcher plot, lol. CFD would have been a neat addition if they didn't have so many other body snatcher plots and magic kinda made it look like second fiddle.
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Nov 5, 2023 06:29
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wiegieman posted:The Boston lockdown/ CFD thing was an attempt to recapture that style but it failed because CGL doesn't pay for good writers and tried to do weird multimedia stuff with it. They hung it on a not-really-MMO that then died a quiet death.  Pulled in $550k on Kickstarter in 2012, never really got beyond a co-op roughly based on Shadowrun Returns, renamed itself to Shadowrun Chronicles: Boston Lockdown before release, and shut down in 2018 for lack of funds to talk Microsoft into renewing the IP license.
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Nov 6, 2023 09:12
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Pointless musing about a very niche character segment in 3E incoming: Reading the Companion I had forgotten that shapeshifters have to spend points on both sets of physical attributes and I'm trying to figure out why. I mean, 3E is no different from other editions in that it wants you to overspend on certain races - elves - but it seems very restrictive for not a lot of benefit. The regeneration is nice but that's hardly the end all be all especially with all the other restrictions shapeshifters get, plus the fact you're Awakened so you're vulnerable to magic. I guess it's maybe because you can also be an adept with access to the Reflexes powers but even that doesn't feel like you're super OP or anything (and means you barely have any points left for skills).
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Nov 6, 2023 14:48
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I was never sure why that changed between 2e and 3e, to be honest.
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Nov 7, 2023 03:31
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the 3e companion is one of the few books I don't have, mostly because I keep forgetting it exists. I have the one from 2e, where adepts just have different modifiers to their base human stats based on their form.
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Nov 7, 2023 04:28
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Liquid Communism posted:I was never sure why that changed between 2e and 3e, to be honest. Like a tiger shapeshifter adept - just tiger, mind - can start with an Initiative of 12+6D6 (or more, I guess, if you min max heavy) if you sink most of your adept points into Improved Reflexes which is a lot but with 3E's 'everybody takes a turn, subtract 10' initiative at most you'll be batting clean up. I never really had fights with that many people and ran on that long that would have made it really worth it.
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Nov 7, 2023 07:43
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Dawgstar posted:Pointless musing about a very niche character segment in 3E incoming: Reading the Companion I had forgotten that shapeshifters have to spend points on both sets of physical attributes and I'm trying to figure out why. I mean, 3E is no different from other editions in that it wants you to overspend on certain races - elves - but it seems very restrictive for not a lot of benefit. The regeneration is nice but that's hardly the end all be all especially with all the other restrictions shapeshifters get, plus the fact you're Awakened so you're vulnerable to magic. I guess it's maybe because you can also be an adept with access to the Reflexes powers but even that doesn't feel like you're super OP or anything (and means you barely have any points left for skills). Cantorsdust posted:3e I understand to be the last of the old school editions and the most refined of those. [...] 4E is good and 5E isn't that bad, but 5E's just 4E with a bunch of random house rules. In 2009 it came out that hundreds of thousands of dollars had been "improperly commingled" by Catalyst's main shareholders. There was a big hole in the budget and Topps has lawyers, so they stiffed all of their freelancers the pittance they had been paying them before (we're talking $400/10k words) and the accused embezzler wasn't even fired, and so almost every single long-time writer and editor quit. 5E is the product of a bunch of inexperienced scabs being ineffectively corralled by literally criminally incompetent managers. There's no overarching vision to 5E's changes. Some of the changes are pure grognard, others torch 30 years of tradition, and a lot of them are pointless fiddling. This is what you would expect since the writers are whoever was willing to work for thieves potentially for free. The only real pattern is that they try to fix all of the well-known problems with 4E but generally their fixes are bad. I'm not going to bore you with an exhaustive analysis, just a few examples that are reflective of the whole. Also, the editing is extremely bad. The bright spot in 5E is the Matrix rules. They do not work as written, but once you patch Matrix Perception they do work. A person of average intelligence can read the rules and understand how to hack someone's gun, although most people won't get why that's usually not worthwhile and the real strength of hacking is that you can hack anything within 100 meters of you regardless of line of sight. A related good change is that Technomancers (magical-ish deckers) are completely playable as deckers out of the box, which was not the case in any prior edition (in 4E they were only truly playable as riggers, which didn't make anyone happy) In 4E, there were some ways to take advantage of the cyberlimb rules. Rather than actually fix them, they just jacked up the price of cyberlimbs. Kai Tave posted:Just to elaborate a bit on how hosed this is...and bear in mind the street samurai is literally the first sample character you will see, the first place new players will go to get an idea of the sorts of things you can do...if you take away one of Sample Cybork Samurai's 94,000 nuyen cyberarms you can just about afford every other piece of augmentware he has...but it still only leaves you with a possible maximum of 9,800 nuyen to buy guns, ammo, grenades, a bike, a lifestyle, armor, a commlink, and pretty much anything and everything else you might need. Gobbeldygook posted:That's been the case with every edition of Shadowrun. The sample characters get written up by various people at various stages of development, they're almost always awful, and almost every single sample character will violate some part of the chargen rules. I'm irritated they didn't even mark which priority each character chose; SR4 told you how many BP was spent on each section. Magic is where they slaughtered a bunch of sacred cows. In every prior edition "direct damage" combat spells (mage looks at somebody, concentrates, and his head explodes) were just better than "indirect damage" combat spells (lightning bolt, fireball, etc) unless you needed the elemental effect because direct damage did more damage and didn't damage the caster as much, and in SR5 it's the exact opposite: direct damage spells are garbage and throwing fire at people is the way to kill them. Incentivizing throwing fireballs is cool, but it's also a rejection of 30 years of tradition. Similarly, Shadowrun has always had a very limited amount of magic items, but 5E's enchanting/alchemy changes mean literally everyone should have a bunch of magical consumables in their pack. and finally, some of the changes are just loving inexplicable. Someone seemed to think trolls needed to be nerfed to the ground and I have no idea why. Gobbeldygook posted:Page 65: I want to emphasize that the editing is extremely bad. Gobbeldygook posted:pg 229-230 says you get +3d6 init for cold-sim and +4d6 init for hot-sim. Then 231 has a table that lists the init of Cold-Sim as 3d6 and Hot-Sim as 4d6.
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Nov 21, 2023 03:36
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3e is a solid ruleset (as far as SR editions go). And here's a 3e megabundle. https://bundleofholding.com/presents/SR3Mega
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Nov 26, 2023 05:59
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I just picked that up to cover some of the fluff I never bought. I also picked up year of the comet, which I pretty much read cover to cover in a Borders and never bought. I never realized that some of the new critters in that book are lifted directly from Earthdawn that late in the development life.
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Nov 27, 2023 05:25
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This includes two of my favorite hard to find SR books, Aztlan and Paranormal Animals of Europe.
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Nov 28, 2023 10:31
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Liquid Communism posted:This includes two of my favorite hard to find SR books, Aztlan and Paranormal Animals of Europe. Aztlan and Tir Tairngire both are what I think of as peak SR setting books. (Although given what they have in common it's not surprising.)
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Nov 28, 2023 15:04
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I don't know why they're considering Corporate Shadowfiles and Corporate Download to be 3e books, amoung others, but those two are some of the finest 2e era books.
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Nov 28, 2023 16:54
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TheCenturion posted:I don't know why they're considering Corporate Shadowfiles and Corporate Download to be 3e books, amoung others, but those two are some of the finest 2e era books. Because it's ancient history and it's a very good mistake to make?  As they note themselves: quote:UPDATE 24 November: We're informed three titles in this offer – Aztlan, Corporate Shadowfiles, and Paranormal Animals of Europe – are actually for Shadowrun Second Edition, not 3E. Sorry! What's worse, we've already presented all three supplements in last year's Shadowrun 1E-2E Megabundle. Sheesh! But the background material in these books is useful for any edition.
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Nov 28, 2023 17:55
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Corporate Download is 3E anyway. Shadowfiles is interesting though because it's where I got my first very, very basic crash course in stocks and even then seemed like a rigged game.
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Nov 28, 2023 22:37
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It’s true. The golden age of sourcebooks that also served as reference texts and primers on any subject imaginable.
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Nov 28, 2023 23:26
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A similar one, albeit with less real-world applicability, was the CorpSec handbook, which elegantly straddle the fence of, on the one hand, giving the GM lots of ideas for how to complicate the players' lives, and on the other hand, giving both the GM and the players lots of ideas why any and all such systems fail when in contact with reality. The fundamentals can still be found in real-world physical and info-security issues and design philosophies, but the way they are realised in the SR universe will obviously be a bit more wild than over at Dow HQ. They haven't quite invented or found a need for FAB-mesh walls… yet.
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Nov 28, 2023 23:34
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But it does, as I recall, point out that geese make excellent guard animals.
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Nov 29, 2023 03:31
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I had to look it up to make sure I hadn't imagined the accompanying illustration
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Nov 29, 2023 03:54
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That's the one. An absolute classic. Eagerly awaiting the Shadowrun 2050 expansion for Untitled Goose Game.
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Nov 29, 2023 14:49
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Shadowrun 1st edition to be reprinted, according to their PAX unplugged thing.
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Dec 3, 2023 09:56
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SR's getting a new line developer in RJ Thomas, long-time freelancer.
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Dec 3, 2023 19:58
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Dawgstar posted:SR's getting a new line developer in RJ Thomas, long-time freelancer. Another roll of the dice. Maybe a case of being careful what you wish for. SirFozzie posted:Shadowrun 1st edition to be reprinted, according to their PAX unplugged thing. I bought mine PoD awhile back. Wonder why they're bringing it back? It was not a super popular edition. For collectors? Maybe if they have the original images. PoD tends to mess up grey scales.
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Dec 3, 2023 23:09
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Because as wonky as 2e and 3e was with its variable target numbers and exploding sixes, 1e was even wonkier with its variable staging (i.e. number of successes needed to upgrade to a higher effect level). And if you want to get away from the 4e-and-later systems, then surely it's best to just swing as hard as possible towards the other extreme end?
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Dec 3, 2023 23:21
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It's Shadowrun's 35th next year and so it's likely just in keeping with the recent trend of companies re-releasing their original products on important anniversaries. 2013's WotC re-release of OD&D 2018's FFG re-release of the WEG 1st edition This year's GW re-release of Rogue Trader
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Dec 3, 2023 23:34
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Tippis posted:Because as wonky as 2e and 3e was with its variable target numbers and exploding sixes, 1e was even wonkier with its variable staging (i.e. number of successes needed to upgrade to a higher effect level). The variable successes needed came about because the original developers were taking turns GMing, and one of the developers (Paul Hume?) couldn't keep a single gunfight straight because there were 6 different weapons being used. It was one of the first rules in 1e to go. I never viewed the variable target numbers as that wonky, and the exploding sixes were actually one of the things that sold it at the table in conventions. My players would often just keep on rolling to see how high they could go (34 was our highest, from a player I'm confident was fudging).
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Dec 4, 2023 04:12
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Dawgstar posted:SR's getting a new line developer in RJ Thomas, long-time freelancer. Jason Hardy is promoted to Creative Director for CGL's RPG Division.
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Dec 4, 2023 12:59
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Finster Dexter posted:Jason Hardy is promoted to Creative Director for CGL's RPG Division. Yeah, that's whatever but a freelancer I'm acquainted with was optimistic about RJ taking over Shadowrun so here's hoping.
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Dec 4, 2023 15:32
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He's still working under Hardy, and Hardy is a completely useless fuckmuppet.
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Dec 5, 2023 05:09
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Liquid Communism posted:He's still working under Hardy, and Hardy is a completely useless fuckmuppet. The hope is that Hardy would just be content to let someone else do the job for him. It's not like he ever listened to anything anyone said, ever.
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Dec 5, 2023 05:12
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ninjoatse.cx posted:The hope is that Hardy would just be content to let someone else do the job for him. It's not like he ever listened to anything anyone said, ever. This is the same guy one of the freelancers collected, cleaned up, and presented full 5e errata to, with an explicit statement it was not paid work and he was doing it for the benefit of the game. All he needed was signoff from Hardy to put it out officially. Hardy memory holed it. He has long since been actively sabotaging the game line, in my suspicion because he is still pissed about freelancers abandoning ship because CGL tried to stiff them.
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Dec 5, 2023 12:18
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I read a good chunk of this 6e metaplot book, Scotophobia. I didn't bother with the gear or rules, mostly just the metaplot stuff and hoo boy. Did they freelance the writing out to Kevin Siembieda because it has the same stink as a bad Rifts sourcebook. They are doing deep retcons, too, so they can play the old trope of, "Actually, these Big Bads have been manipulating things ALL ALONG!" Without getting into specific spoiler, the flavor of all of this doesn't feel like anything even remotely Shadowrun or even Earthdawn. I didn't think they could come up with anything to make me even less interested in shadowrun metaplot but here we are. At least it's not another body snatcher, I guess. I hope this isn't RJ Thomas' idea. It's a huge retcon and makes major changes to almost all of the big movers and shakers in the Sixth World. If he wanted to do something with a more traditional cyberpunk feel, it's going to take a lot of unwinding. I'm glad there's new blood in charge, but it's going to be a long while before anything improves for contemporary SR, at least IMHO.
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Dec 5, 2023 15:09
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Man you can't post something like that and not put in spoilers of some kind.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:18
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Yeah, just lay it onto us so we can be horrified together.
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Dec 5, 2023 17:24
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just use spoiler tags for the 6e fans
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Dec 5, 2023 17:50
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We have those here?
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Dec 5, 2023 17:52
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We have those anywhere?
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Dec 5, 2023 18:01
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LaSquida posted:We have those anywhere? I was being charitable! I actually bought the huge bundle for $18 or so awhile back, despite swearing never to pay for another catalyst product, just so I can follow up with what they've done with the metaplot 
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Dec 5, 2023 18:33
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LOL ok, well Ok so multidimensional mana strip miners have been secretly manipulating ERRYBODY in the sixth world so that they can build "Devices" (they are literally called "The Devices") that will harvest and send all of our magical energy and life force back to their home dimension. They are called Disians. They're from another metaplane called Dis, I guess, and they have done the whole mana suck thing to thousands of other metaplanes. They are super puppet masters and never do things directly, but through layers of intermediaries and manipulation. They like to gather people up and experiement on them, turning them into monstrous Chimeras that are used as physical force when and where it's actually needed. The dumbest retcon things that I can think of off the top of my head: Aztechnology has been a long time collaborator, and Disians didn't come up with blood magic, but it works really well with Disian magic and they can use blood magic to power their harvester devices. This collab started in like 2055 or so. Disian tech is what helped create the bioweapon that killed Sirrurg. MCT is all-in with the Disians. I kinda skipped that section but they have built a lot of these devices for the Disians, I guess. Apparently, the Disians straight up clowned Lofwyr. He wasn't prepared, didn't see it coming, has no idea what to do, isn't doing anything at all really, and S-K is deciding to be reactive. Lofwyr will "wait and see" what happens or something. IIRC, the Disians had something to do with the UCAS blackouts and the disappearance of the UCAS III Corps, which was one of the ~unsolved mysteries~ from that particular lore book (forgot the name of it, came out a few years ago). That was about where I stopped. Weirdly, the book has 2 sections about corporate activity? I'm guessing poor communication between freelancers or something, but they put both in.  I dunno, my biggest gripe is that they could've done this trope a dozen different ways that would've felt more in line with the setting. Nothing about this is cyberpunk, imho. Shadowrun deserves better than this.
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Dec 6, 2023 12:34
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You know what, not sure if getting a new Line developer for the franchise is going to help if that's what they're going with.
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Dec 6, 2023 12:39
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Cooked Auto posted:You know what, not sure if getting a new Line developer for the franchise is going to help if that's what they're going with.  Just going to rewind the timeline to avoid all this metaplot so hard I am going to end up playing Earthdawn.
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Dec 6, 2023 12:47
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