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northward posted:Wheres the proof of this? I mean solid proof and not speculation http://storify.com/GreggCarter/giggs-boson-s-tweets-on-fuentes-trial-and-doping-i Spain is doing their very best to cover it up but bits are out there. Makes me wonder if Abidals cancer is related.
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Aug 5, 2013 15:36
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vaginal culture posted:http://storify.com/GreggCarter/giggs-boson-s-tweets-on-fuentes-trial-and-doping-i This is all speculation though. There is no solid proof. Present me the proof.
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Aug 5, 2013 15:39
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northward posted:This is all speculation though. There is no solid proof. Present me the proof. How about you loving read all of it, since there is no way you could have since i posted it. Butt loads of proof there, read the quotes. Testimony given in court is not speculation, You want HD video of Messi injecting nanrdalone or something? Don't ask for something just to wave it off a second later.
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Aug 5, 2013 15:43
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You have to be god drat naive not to believe every single big football club in the world is doping. I mean, Bundesliga is the only league in the world that will do blood tests (in this season) - and even then they'll only do 10% of the doping tests as blood.
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Aug 5, 2013 15:44
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vaginal culture posted:How about you loving read all of it, since there is no way you could have since i posted it. Butt loads of proof there, read the quotes. Testimony given in court is not speculation, You want HD video of Messi injecting nandalone or something? Don't ask for something just to wave it off a second later. Let's see, first tweet is a Bill Simmons article.... lol
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Aug 5, 2013 15:45
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Hegav posted:You have to be god drat naive not to believe every single big football club in the world is doping. I mean, Bundesliga is the only league in the world that will do blood tests (in this season) - and even then they'll only do 10% of the doping tests as blood. Well yeah, but the problem is the narrative being framed by Tom is doping being the only reason for the recent success for Barcelona and Spain, which is retarded considering the teams they are competing with are likely just as guilty of it. Plus his whole schtick is calling out successful athletes as dopers to wind posters up. I'm not saying any of those athletes are clean, but he only brings it up to troll.
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Aug 5, 2013 15:49
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Ah I see, just be blind to it.
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Aug 5, 2013 18:19
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I dont really care about doping. It seems the line between doping and certain other medical practices which are considered legal is relatively arbitrary and constantly blurred. I also am suspicious of any argument grounded in an appeal to what a body can "naturally" do, which it seems a lot of anti-doping arguments rely on. (I'm also surprised with how what seems to be a regulatory issue quickly becomes an ethical one for many commentators) The modern football player is socially and biologically nurtured from a young age to perform their job. Is this natural? Is their diet natural? Is their training regiment natural? Is being sent to live in a farm house at the age of 11, learn Catalan, and forced to play monkey in the middle for 8 hours a day natural? What aspects of modern science and pharmacology are really natural? I'm watching individuals who have been raised to suffer an insane amount of physical stress for my own enjoyment. Does it bother me that they use all the science available to them to make themselves faster and stronger and tire less easily? Not really. Or at least no more so than it does than all the other insane things required throughout their lives in order to be an entertaining product. As long as they are educated as to what they are doing, and financially rewarded, I dont really give a poo poo.
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Aug 5, 2013 18:59
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BWV posted:I dont really care about doping. It seems the line between doping and certain other medical practices which are considered legal is relatively arbitrary and constantly blurred. I also am suspicious of any argument grounded in an appeal to what a body can "naturally" do, which it seems a lot of anti-doping arguments rely on. (I'm also surprised with how what seems to be a regulatory issue quickly becomes an ethical one for many commentators) Are you American? Just seems like the same argument American fans of Lance Armstrong is spouting.
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Aug 5, 2013 19:27
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Tbh I think its massively unfair that there are drugs that can give frail Spaniards the lungs and legs of Jimmy Milner but there aren't any drugs that can make Bradley Johnson pass like Xavi.
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Aug 5, 2013 19:43
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Blue Screen Error posted:Tbh I think its massively unfair that there are drugs that can give frail Spaniards the lungs and legs of Jimmy Milner but there aren't any drugs that can make Bradley Johnson pass like Xavi. This is why the English are so upset really.
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Aug 5, 2013 19:48
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mrg220t posted:Are you American? Just seems like the same argument American fans of Lance Armstrong is spouting. I'm from Canada. And I guess most of that argument comes from the fatigue of listening to people moralize about doping for the last decade. If you want to say a person broke the rules and punish them as such I have no beef. It's the athletes job to know the rules and follow them. But the idea that they are some how breaking some great ethical code of sports or letting down the expectations of society seems a bit much, especially when their motivation is precisely what we require in order to have the best entertainment. I'm not saying all dopers should be celebrated. And I'm not saying they shouldn't get punished for breaking rules. I'm just saying I dont think people who break rules are inherently bad people or massive frauds or big stinking cheaters. And I dont think they necessarily undermine the entire integrity of the sport. It really doesn't bother me. And if it did, I'd probably have to put it further down the list of things that undermine the integrity of competition. edit: To get back on topic, what's the deal with Dongou? Will he be starting the season with the main squad or is he just getting play in the friendlies for experience? BWV fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 5, 2013 |
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Aug 5, 2013 19:48
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BWV posted:To get back on topic, what's the deal with Dongou? Will he be starting the season with the main squad or is he just getting play in the friendlies for experience? He's still on the B team, he was training with the main squad and playing friendlies for experience.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:02
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Suqit posted:He's still on the B team, he was training with the main squad and playing friendlies for experience. He did quite well too imo, scored a few goals, hopefully he can keep it up. God knows we need a striker.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:05
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El Hefe posted:He did quite well too imo, scored a few goals, hopefully he can keep it up. God knows we need a striker. Barcelona scores just fine. The front line is Messi, Neymar, and Iniesta/Pedro/Sanchez. I think we're ok.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:22
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s0meb0dy0 posted:Barcelona scores just fine. The front line is Messi, Neymar, and Iniesta/Pedro/Sanchez. I think we're ok. Excellent point s0meb0dy0. He probably didn't realize any of that when he made his post.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:24
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s0meb0dy0 posted:Barcelona scores just fine. The front line is Messi, Neymar, and Iniesta/Pedro/Sanchez. I think we're ok. Not when we face a team of not-midgets, like Chelsea or Bayern, we need a big strong lad up top for those sort of games.
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Aug 5, 2013 20:25
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Suqit posted:Excellent point s0meb0dy0. He probably didn't realize any of that when he made his post. That's what I'm guessing too.
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Aug 5, 2013 22:27
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I could swear I read somewhere that Dongou is getting number 26. I think they will be moving him back and forth from B as they need/want him.
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Aug 6, 2013 00:26
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BWV posted:I dont really care about doping. It seems the line between doping and certain other medical practices which are considered legal is relatively arbitrary and constantly blurred. I also am suspicious of any argument grounded in an appeal to what a body can "naturally" do, which it seems a lot of anti-doping arguments rely on. (I'm also surprised with how what seems to be a regulatory issue quickly becomes an ethical one for many commentators) Here is the reason doping is a problem in football. Anyone who dies of a 'undiagnosed heart defect' probably was EPO'd up to the gills.
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Aug 6, 2013 02:44
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Byolante posted:Here is the reason doping is a problem in football. Anyone who dies of a 'undiagnosed heart defect' probably was EPO'd up to the gills. Who cares, they get paid more money in a week than most people in a whole year to kick a ball around a field, the risk is minimal anyway, there are very few deaths in football considering how widespread doping is.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:12
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El Hefe posted:Who cares, they get paid more money in a week than most people in a whole year to kick a ball around a field, the risk is minimal anyway, there are very few deaths in football considering how widespread doping is. How many people dying is too many for you? The people dropping dead aren't the rich ones either usually, its the ones trying to break into the big time.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:28
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Byolante posted:How many people dying is too many for you? The people dropping dead aren't the rich ones either usually, its the ones trying to break into the big time. It happens in literally every sport on earth, some people choose to pretend it doesn't exist but if you like top level sports then you have to accept your favorite athlete is doping. If Barca was poo poo and Spain was poo poo and they never won anything you and "Tom" wouldn't give a poo poo about Fuentes or anything and you wouldn't bother trolling this thread periodically.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:33
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El Hefe posted:It happens in literally every sport on earth, some people choose to pretend it doesn't exist but if you like top level sports then you have to accept your favorite athlete is doping. Yes, having an opposing opinion is and can only be a troll since it affects you personally. This is not an attack on your (lol) catalan identity, it's stating a fact. Fact: EPO is dangerous to your health. Fact: Barcelona and other clubs in Spain have been linked with person or persons known for their usage/management of EPO. Fact: Barcelona is nationally not alone in performing 'performance enhancing' measures and likely Spain is not the only country with clubs guilty of sponsoring it or having players who do it.
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Aug 6, 2013 03:49
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El Hefe posted:It happens in literally every sport on earth, some people choose to pretend it doesn't exist but if you like top level sports then you have to accept your favorite athlete is doping. My 'issue' with doping is that while top level clubs condone and make use of it everyone else is forced to in order to compete. There was a doping program discovered at a highschool I used to play rugby against this year. Its getting completely out of hand and idiots like you washing your hands of it is most of the problem.
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Aug 6, 2013 04:03
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Go post about in the doping thread or start one if there isn't one and stop making GBS threads up this thread if you care so much about it then. Also stop pretending Spanish clubs are the only ones doing it because I don't see you posting constantly about it in the EPL or Serie A threads, the only time you or tom post here is to either poo poo on someone or to post about doping. You're boring.
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Aug 6, 2013 04:16
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El Hefe posted:Go post about in the doping thread or start one if there isn't one and stop making GBS threads up this thread if you care so much about it then. I think he is being completely reasonable and you don't need to be getting upset about it. Doping doesn't have to be tolerated and many places are making strides combating it. With the proper punishments it could be limited and less people would die, and that would be a good thing. It's not like the EPO era has led to more exciting matches, I'm sick of watching teams press for 90 minutes choking the life out of matches.
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Aug 6, 2013 05:05
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It's naive to think doping isn't a big thing in top football, there's too much money, prestige and worldwide interest involved for it to be clean. It's a global thing, there's no way it only happens in spain. The bubble will burst one day, and I think and hope a lot of big clubs will be in a world of trouble. This belongs in its own thread though.
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Aug 6, 2013 08:40
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vaginal culture posted:I think he is being completely reasonable and you don't need to be getting upset about it. Doping doesn't have to be tolerated and many places are making strides combating it. With the proper punishments it could be limited and less people would die, and that would be a good thing. It's not like the EPO era has led to more exciting matches, I'm sick of watching teams press for 90 minutes choking the life out of matches. I know we're off track but I think there are two different points here that should be resolved. One is the public health argument. People say doping is bad because it can lead to deaths, and deaths are bad. Yet, tons of jobs require individuals to take risks that may result in death, and we allow it because the risks are made clear. I think as long as players are properly educated about the risks and given adequate compensation they can decide on their own whether they want to do this. The second is that doping hurts the game. That the game is ugly because teams are too fast and too athletic and can press for 90 minutes. This to me is a matter of aesthetics, and one I would probably disagree with. Yet even if I agreed with this, the idea that doping is responsible for the giant in leap in athleticism over the last two decades is unsubstantiated. What is more likely is that teams can press for 90 minutes because their players have dedicated every waking moment since childhood to be well oiled athletic machines. It seems youre problem should be with the modern sport industry and less with one particular aspect of it (doping). On another note, is Barcelona really not signing CB this transfer window? Playing the 0-10-0 was cute for a few games but to go into the season being this thin at the back is insane. They'll concede on every corner. BWV fucked around with this message at 11:22 on Aug 6, 2013 |
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Aug 6, 2013 11:19
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BWV posted:One is the public health argument. People say doping is bad because it can lead to deaths, and deaths are bad. Yet, tons of jobs require individuals to take risks that may result in death, and we allow it because the risks are made clear. I think as long as players are properly educated about the risks and given adequate compensation they can decide on their own whether they want to do this. I would quite enjoy a doping thread because it's a fairly interesting topic if people can remain reasonable. To stay slightly on topic, how has Neymar looked and how do Barcelona line up with him and Messi in the team? I haven't had much chance to see Neymar play so I'm kinda looking forward to getting to watch him on a more regular basis.
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Aug 6, 2013 11:31
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Someone made an excellent point in one of the other threads about the trickle down effect of sanctioned doping, and that is that responsible parents would simply refuse to let their kids play sports if they're forced to take drugs, of which we don't have a clue about the long term implications of and cost thousands to use and maintain. Sport would eventually end up only played by the rich, as a kid like Messi or Bale who had HGH injections at 12 is always going to have an advantage over say a talented kid from a Favela who had to wait until 18 or so to start his regime. Reason it pisses me off so much isn't because I'm English (we know we're poo poo at football for reasons beyond doping, thanks) but because I'm for a level playing field as much as possible. One of the greatest things about Football is the giant killings that would pretty much be non-existant if your million dollar super team has a drug program that can eclipse a team from a few tiers down. Football should be about competitiveness, tactics, and will to win. Never about is our doping better than their doping. How ANYONE who can claim to be a fan of sport, or who has played a sport before and not be absolutely livid about what's going on in the game just perplexes me. I mean Bayern Munich pretty much ruined the German League last year, nobody could compete. I watched I think a cup match where they won 9-2 and it was just a joke of a game. The other team scrambled a goal in and I said to my mate at the time watch what Bayern do now... and they just waltzed up the other end and scored, no effort, no fun. Anyway sorry too for the derail... agreed we need a doping thread.
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Aug 6, 2013 11:49
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Did anything happen after that former Real Sociedad president came out and said the team were doping or was it all just ignored?
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Aug 6, 2013 11:54
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CareyB posted:Someone made an excellent point in one of the other threads about the trickle down effect of sanctioned doping, and that is that responsible parents would simply refuse to let their kids play sports if they're forced to take drugs, of which we don't have a clue about the long term implications of and cost thousands to use and maintain. Sport would eventually end up only played by the rich, as a kid like Messi or Bale who had HGH injections at 12 is always going to have an advantage over say a talented kid from a Favela who had to wait until 18 or so to start his regime. I agree with your second point. But like I said, I think doping is far down the list of things that need to be fixed in order to have a level playing field. There seem to be more pressing issues stemming from the rise in foreign investors who more or less launder money through teams and the insanely unfair revenue sharing systems. Your first point is interesting but I think its the exact opposite. Wealthy parents will prevent their children from playing sports because they will be seen as barbaric and unhealthy. Being educated and having alternatives to this lifestyle, wealthy and middle class kids will choose other avenues to pursue and not subject themselves to the physical stress. As a result sport will be populated by poor young lads who are more or less adopted by teams. The rich teams will finance their regiments, either of steroids, supplements or training sessions. They will be willing to take these risks because as poor citizens the state has most likely given them few options to escape their socio-economic position. The trickle down effect is not really the result of sport but of other economic factors that lead young people to believe that sport is the only way to achieve upward mobility. While not at this final stage yet, American football is a good example of a sport that is a bit further down this process.
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Aug 6, 2013 12:10
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So sport gets to the point that it's unhealthy to play, and you don't see the issue with that?! I agree corruption is a bigger problem but it's one with a lot more exposure. I do take a slightly perverse pleasure when I see old football team mates and tell them the score. We're lucky on this forum to have people who share information so we can educate ourselves, 99% of the public are convinced that football is completely clean. Regarding American Football; I watched one of those top ten college plays the other day and it seems that players aren't allowed to actually grab a player to tackle them, right? One QB literally bounced off and danced around guys as he went the full length of the field to score a TD. Believe me it'll get pretty boring pretty quickly if every fast QB is able to evade tackles so easily and every game includes touch downs that should only happen once a season or so.
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Aug 6, 2013 12:26
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All this doping poo poo has to get the gently caress out of the La Liga thread, seriously. How about you trickle that stuff down the EPL matchday threads so you can have a talk with flaps about it.
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Aug 6, 2013 12:50
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oh hi guys whats going on in this thread..Scott Bakula posted:Did anything happen after that former Real Sociedad president came out and said the team were doping or was it all just ignored? WADA was investigating but I haven't seen any news about it since February. And now to get this thread back on track: has Ronald extended his contract with Real yet or hasn't he?
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Aug 6, 2013 13:31
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Actually there's something more important going on. Javier Tebas announced the teams that's under suspicion of match fixing. He's backed up by Miguel Cardenal and Joaquin Boadas (Girona were the club who told the league about all of this stuff) Levante v Deportivo, Levante v Celta, Zaragoza v Atletic are the La Liga matches being investigated.
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Aug 6, 2013 13:37
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Please stop ruining this thread with doping chat. Make a thread about doping in football instead please. Thank you.
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Aug 6, 2013 14:15
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BWV posted:is Barcelona really not signing CB this transfer window? Playing the 0-10-0 was cute for a few games but to go into the season being this thin at the back is insane. They'll concede on every corner. I think they were trying for a few guys, but none of the deals went through. As it is the roster looks very light. And I do not think they are going to make it through the season with a healthy Puyol. It's going to be a game of pin the CB on the back of a midfielder all over again.
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Aug 6, 2013 14:24
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Lladre posted:I think they were trying for a few guys, but none of the deals went through. I think they'll sign a CB. If not, then they still have Pique, Puyol, Bartra, and Mascherano. As long as they don't lose 3 of the 4 (again) they should be alright.
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Aug 6, 2013 14:26
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