Let's Talk Headphones IV: Should I get Beats? Do I need Noise Cancelling?

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Let's Talk Headphones IV: Should I get Beats? Do I need Noise Cancelling?

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Hey, Midorka, I notice you say in the OP that you had the O2 and now the Magni. Did you have a chance to compare them or notice anything that was better on one over the other? I have a pair of low impedance headphones and I'm trying to find as "transparent" of an amp as I can. The best I've found is a brief comparison of the two saying that the Magni isn't as artificial-sounding and doesn't constrain the soundstage compared to the O2, but not much else.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2013 23:20

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 3, 2024 14:31

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Huh. Alright, sounds like I'll probably go for the Magni then. Cheaper than a pre-built O2 here, and I'd rather have the input on the back anyway.

# ¿ Aug 9, 2013 23:47

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

I've seen vitriol directed towards them before and their honest reactions and actions going towards solving issues, so I'm not too worried about dealing with them. And no worries about cabling as I have enough to last me if/when the current ones deteriorate.

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 00:19

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

I decided to look into the two amps a bit more. Supposedly the Magni might not be a great pairing with sub-30Ω/really sensitive headphones because of the single gain setting? It also ends up around the same price as an assembled O2 to get it shipped across the border. Hrmm... :shrug:

Guess I'll do a little more checking before I commit to something.

edit: Actually, if you're willing to drop the source (in my case sound card) volume control, you can probably still get a proper range of volume adjustment on the Magni. What effect that has on the resulting sound compared to having the source at 100%, I don't know.

some dillweed fucked around with this message at 04:00 on Aug 10, 2013

# ¿ Aug 10, 2013 02:28

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Alllrighty, I've been going a little loopy over the past day trying to figure out if I should buy or actually need to get a new amp for my new headphones. I know you guys basically said the Magni should be fine (although I don't know if the gain's too much for ~94 dB/mW headphones or if that's fine), but I actually still have an older amp with a less-than-ideal output impedance (supposedly ~5 or 6-Ohm versus the headphones' range of ~25-28). I know the ideal ratio's supposed to be around 1:8+, but how badly would it be distorting the sound at an impedance of ~5 Ohms as opposed to the ideal ~3 or less? It sounds a little "off," but I don't know if that's the amp causing issues or if that's just the way the headphones sound.

# ¿ Aug 11, 2013 07:00

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Err, I mean Fostex. Without the amp in-between, they'd be plugging straight into the line outs on my Titanium HD, which Creative apparently haven't provided impedance specifics for besides "0.01 ohms @ 10K load," and the headphone out's been measured around 36 ohms.

some dillweed fucked around with this message at 08:13 on Aug 11, 2013

# ¿ Aug 11, 2013 07:56

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Okaaayy... It's just that, that runs counter to everything I've been told elsewhere and read elsewhere (not just Head-Fi) about the basic electronic impedance matching stuff since the headphone out's impedance is even above the headphone's own impedance, that the headphone out is only really useful for higher impedance headphones, and that the line out is a cleaner output to use.

Okay, what I mean is, I've read articles, blog posts, and recommendations on various forums (yes, including Head-Fi but with a caveat) from people who seem reasonable (not over-hyping zealots) with a hell of a lot more of knowledge of audio electronics than I have, and the general advice is: source output impedance feeding headphones at most 1/8 because above that can cause things like distortions of the frequency response, if your source output impedance is too high then get a simple amp like an O2, Magni, FiiO, etc. with a sub-2-ohm output impedance and make sure it's not putting out too much power,, blah blah blah.

My assumption is that a simple amp like a Magni or O2 would fit all of those criteria, I guess I was just curious to know if anyone here knew to what degree an impedance mismatch can affect your equipment.

some dillweed fucked around with this message at 08:59 on Aug 11, 2013

# ¿ Aug 11, 2013 08:33

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

NwAvGuy's blog had been referenced tons I just never took a deep enough look at it. Thanks for the explanation, Midorka. And I'd appreciate hearing about how your IEMs work with the Magni.

edit: Ah, so at their absolute worst-case highest dynamic range peak of ~118 dB SPL, these headphones should apparently only need around 250 mW of power and 1.7V. So, I'm guessing as long as the amp can supply above that voltage and doesn't go above the headphones' maximum accepted power at that impedance, it should probably be fine? Either the O2 or Magni seem like they'd be fine for that.

some dillweed fucked around with this message at 16:30 on Aug 11, 2013

# ¿ Aug 11, 2013 15:13

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Thanks for checking things with your Magni, Midorka. I decided to just order one anyway. It seems like it's basically audibly the same as the O2 (which costs around $90 more to get a 1/4" jack and RCA inputs that are standard on the Magni), and according to one guy it's also essentially the same sound as the higher-priced Asgard 2. I actually e-mailed Schiit earlier and Jason said it should pair well with my headphones anyway, so at the least there should be no reason for them to not work together.

some dillweed fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Aug 12, 2013

# ¿ Aug 12, 2013 09:10

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Yeah, right here, in case anyone wants in. Currently around 500 left in this batch, from the looks of it.

Speaking of, are the HD 6XX considered "neutral" and "accurate" enough for things like plugging directly into an instrument/amp and getting a good sound, and possibly also for recording, or would they be a bad choice for recording since they're open-backed? Is there another model that's relatively inexpensive and neutral enough for listening to things like piano and vocals with an "accurate" or "clean" sound? I'm going to be getting a digital piano pretty soon and need some headphones so I can practice without disturbing people, but would also like something that I can maybe use for recording purposes at some point. People seem to like the HD 6XX for general listening, but I guess I'm trying to kill two birds with one stone and that might not be a realistic option.

I have a pair of Fostex TH600s but hadn't used them in over a year since I switched my PC back to speakers, and now they sound bloated/muffled (slightly overpowering bass, words sound slightly muffled, the whole range in general sounds kind of muffled/inarticulate, etc.) including when I try them amped through my Magni. They were probably always like that but I just got used to them initially. I also have an old pair of "modified" HD 555s but they developed a pretty noticeable channel imbalance (left side's louder), and my DT 880s also sound kind of "muffled" in general (just with less bass than the TH600) and never really sounded great to me so I stopped using them. I've seen the MDR-7506 suggested as a cheaper option for recording vocals at least, but it sounds like the newer batches can also break pretty quickly under regular use. Any suggestions?

# ¿ Mar 6, 2018 04:16

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

You're kind of mixing up tracking and mixing here. HD6xx are wonderful for mixing, but terrible for recording. You need closed cans for recording, especially vocals. MDR-7506 or V6 are the go-to standard.

Okay, yeah. I kind of figured that they wouldn't be great for recording since they're open. I guess I might have to look at the Sony headphones if I want to start recording.

quote:

You seem to describe most of the cans you own as "muffled", including the DT880s which are pretty bright. I'm wondering if this isn't a problem with your source. What are you driving them with?

I don't know if it makes a difference, but the DT 880s I have are the 250-ohm model. I just tried everything again through the Magni hooked up to my PC's X-Fi Titanium HD (RCA outputs). This is basically what I'm hearing:

The TH600s sound like they're slightly clearer, more detailed, faster/whatever overall compared to the DT 880s but there's also a more tinny/sibilant sound in some of the higher frequencies and they make (seemingly most) voices and certain instruments sound kind of artificial or over-processed or something. They definitely have more of that U/V-shaped sound signature with boosted bass and treble compared to the mids that people talk about with most Denon/Fostex headphones, and so it sounds like the mids are a bit overpowered by everything else and might be losing some detail or separation there when a lot of different instruments are playing at once.
The DT 880s seem flatter or more neutral but are missing some clarity/resolution/detail and it's hard to pick out separate instruments at times, like things closer to the midrange and lower start to just blend together if there's too much going on at the same time. It's a bit easier to hear the midtones compared to the TH600s because the volume across the whole range seems more balanced, and I think some things sound more "natural" or like I'd expect them to sound through the DT 880s, but even those things are still kind of muddy. The bass is lacking in volume compared to where I'd want it, but like the rest of the sound it's also lacking in clarity. Higher instruments like cymbals and the like might be a bit cleaner, but that's about it. It just seems like there isn't good note separation on a lot of instruments, and I can hear clear separation on various things if I switch to the TH600s.

I also tried listening to both plugged directly into my phone (Axon 7), plugged into an older Sony CD changer, and into an even older Pioneer stereo amp hooked up to that Sony player. The only other thing I have access to right now that I could try is the "Lovely Cube" amp I had before the Magni. Assuming the Magni is a decent amp for the DT 880s, then the impressions I gave above seem to carry over to other sources. That Pioneer amp seemed like an outlier, though, and made the TH600s sound muddier. Maybe it's just not suited for use with lower impedance headphones? I don't know.

Going from the DT 880 as a baseline, if I could get something that's just "clearer" overall and maybe with a bit of extra bass then that might be close to an "ideal" sound to me if I wanted to use them on a regular basis. I guess I'd have to see how either pair sounds plugged directly into an instrument and whether they're "good enough" for that, but trying these things out again, I don't really like how either sounds for all-purpose kind of use. Like I said, the TH600s sound okay for specific kinds of instrumental music but voices just sound wrong, and the DT 880s sound slightly muffled/muddy in general.

# ¿ Mar 7, 2018 05:49

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Dr. Fishopolis posted:

You're not going to have a transcendant headphone experience plugging directly into a digital piano or guitar amp no matter what headphone you use. That's really not what those headphone outputs are for. For recording, anything cheap and closed will work just fine, hence the popularity of 7506 and dt770 for this purpose. You need isolation and enough accuracy to play along to the track, that's it. Save the nice setup for mixing, where it matters.

You might be switching headphones back and forth rapidly which will always make the less bright cans sound muddy. In any case, you'll be happy with the HD6xx.

I didn't get in on this batch of the HD 6XX, but yeah, I'm not expecting amazing sound directly plugged into the instruments so what I have right now might be fine for that. I'll probably try the MDR-7506s if I end up wanting to record myself.

The last bit about my "ideal sound" I guess ended up describing headphones I'd probably want for just all-purpose listening for music/gaming/entertainment, etc. and not specifically for the recording and/or music practice I was originally asking about. Likely neither of the two I have right now would be something I'd want to use to just plug in, sit back, and listen to some music or watch a movie because of the problems I hear in them.

e: I am reading up on the DT 1990s and HE-400i that you guys recommended, though (although the warning about the HE-400i being extremely fragile makes me wary of them). There isn't really anywhere local that I can go to test headphones out before buying, so if something sounds like what I'm looking for and I eventually have the money to spend, it'll likely just be another blind buy like my other headphone purchases have been.

some dillweed fucked around with this message at 03:33 on Mar 8, 2018

# ¿ Mar 7, 2018 18:30

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

I should probably just focus on trying out other headphones with my current setup, but I'm just wondering a few things, in case anyone has the knowledge/experience with this kind of hardware:

Is there any worthwhile (I guess this is kind of subjective) improvement moving up to another amp from the original Magni I already have if I'm mainly trying to get a more detailed, "resolved" or "accurate" and neutral to very slightly warm sound? Or should I just focus on the headphones?
If I've disabled the various sound-distorting effects on the Titanium HD in my PC to get as clean of a sound as I can from it, would moving to something like the Modi Multibit be likely to improve the sound to any noticeable degree, or would I have to go up significantly in price bracket to get something "better"?

From what I've actually been able to find, it seems like the original Magni is at least pretty good for a starter amp but that there are some improvements that people can hear in higher-end amps like the Jotunheim and others that cost several times the Magni's price (extra detail/resolution, dynamics, blah). Otherwise, I see a bunch of people using tube amps to try to round or smooth out sounds that they don't like in their headphones, or try to make things "warmer" in general. I'm just trying to get as clean/uncoloured of a signal as I can from the PC to the headphones (if that's possible), so the headphones are the only part I change to try to get a different sound. I also have a Roland Quad-Capture sitting around that I could technically use as a source, but I don't know if that would be "better" than the Titanium HD through the RCA line outs.

Basically, I tried the DT 880 and TH600 on my PC and Magni again ("Audio Creation" mode on the Titanium HD, all effects/enhancements disabled) and things sounded a bit better and more easily enjoyable overall than I gave them credit for earlier. But, I still hear some muddiness/sluggishness in the same areas on both headphones and at least regular speech still sounds kind of "hollow" on the TH600 (guessing that's an effect of the boosted bass/treble?). Also, vocals seem like they're not quite loud enough in either pair (slightly more balanced on the DT 880). So, I'm likely still going to have to just try other headphones if I want a more neutral/"balanced" sound with better detail retrieval/resolution or whatever. I don't want my sound card or amp to hold things back, though, if that's something I'd have to worry about with the current setup.

# ¿ Mar 18, 2018 01:05

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Thanks for the responses earlier. Assuming my Titanium HD isn't fundamentally messing up the sound somehow, then I just need to figure out what to do as far as testing out other headphones. There are apparently a couple of audio or hi-fi places in the nearest city, but if they don't really carry anything then I'll probably have to just take my chances again and buy stuff online. Maybe I'll even try a couple of different sets at once this time! :homebrew:

If any of the shops have demo units of the HD 600 or 650 that I can try out, then I might get in on the next HD 6XX drop if they sound good. The "foam modded" HD 555s are the last Sennheiser headphones I've listened to, and I'm guessing those don't measure up super well even just going to the next tier up within Sennheiser.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2018 13:33

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

There's already another drop for the HD 6XX, in case anyone didn't get in last time.

Just to triple-check before I join in, the HD 6XX is basically just an HD 650 with a different colour scheme and cable, right? That seems to be what the description, measurements, and anybody else is saying.

some dillweed fucked around with this message at 20:52 on Mar 22, 2018

# ¿ Mar 22, 2018 20:50

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

I got my HD6XX last week but didn't really get a chance to sit down, set things up and try them until now. First impressions are that they sound pretty "natural," although maybe still slightly inarticulate with certain things like voices/speech but not too bad. I'm not sure yet if the bass is really too loud in comparison to the rest of the spectrum, but they sound pretty good and balanced with maybe a bit of added bass kick/thump from just listening to some random stuff for around an hour. They currently sound like they might be a bit muffled, veiled, whatever when listening to some instrumental stuff like jazz and classical, but I'll have to listen some more and maybe compare some of my other headphones to see if maybe that's just how those recordings sound.

I tried plugging them into the headphone out on my cheap PC speakers just to see if they'd work but they basically needed to be plugged into my Magni to get decent volume. I haven't tried them directly into my phone (Axon 7) yet but I'm guessing it won't do much better than the speaker headphone out. Also, the head clamp is pretty damned strong out of the box. It sounds like that's supposed to lessen after a week or so of use, but if that doesn't do enough then I can try just bending the metal parts of the headband like people have mentioned.

Anyway, HD6XX sound pretty good so far. It seems like they probably deserve the praise people gave them as far as being fairly neutral and natural. I'll see if I'm still positive about them after using them longer term.

# ¿ Jul 9, 2018 04:39

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

I've been using older Plantronics BackBeat FITs for the past few years. The original version died really quickly on me twice, and I've been using the slightly newer revision (in "Sport Grey") since last year, but the plastic housing has developed a few cracks so I don't know how much longer they'll last. Wirecutter are recommending the newer 2100/3100 for "running headphones" and they apparently still have the "double-tap to skip track" function, but various people make it sound like they aren't any more durable and might have other issues. You might be better served looking for something else/cheap.

The ones I've had don't seal at all and don't get extremely loud so they've been almost useless when I've tried using them outdoors for running or against any kind of wind. They're fine for things like treadmill running or other fairly stationary exercises indoors, and the audio quality is decent. But, the first pair died in less than six months and were replaced under warranty, the replacements took a little longer to die so I tried using some cheaper wired earbuds again, and then I got the slight revision of the original FIT on sale last year and they're past the 1-year warranty period, so I guess that's an improvement?

# ¿ May 15, 2019 13:25

Adbot: ADBOT LOVES YOU

# ¿ May 3, 2024 14:31

some dillweed: Mar 31, 2007

Any recommendations for someone looking for relatively budget (probably sub-$100 CAD) Bluetooth, noise-cancelling, circumaural headphones? The budget might be a bit more flexible, but I'd probably have to be able to justify the extra cost with more legitimate reasons like better construction, warranty, etc.

My sister has been using a pair of wired, red Audio-Technicas of some kind (don't know exact model at the moment) on her walks/commutes to and from work, apparently with audio only coming out of one side for quite a while now. My mom asked her what she wants for Christmas, and she only mentioned it then, along with the wanted features above (wireless/Bluetooth and noise-cancelling).

# ¿ Dec 1, 2019 03:39

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Inspect Your Gadgets > Let's Talk Headphones IV: Should I get Beats? Do I need Noise Cancelling?