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OSFE mechanics: What’s with the dark zones? On my last run, one of the three routes in several zones was dark red, and when I went on it it was labeled as a “dark” zone. It didn’t seem much different. The shopkeeper was out for blood, too, by which I mean she wanted me to pay for items in health instead of money. Also gently caress the elite monster that wakes up after 10 seconds and spews lasers randomly everywhere. My run ended fast in zone 4 when those showed up. I might throw together a thread for this game if no one else does. I don’t actually know anything about it though, so if someone else does, feel free to preempt me.
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Mar 29, 2020 01:01
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I beat One Step From Eden  I used Reva's default loadout, got the Shield Gen card early, and just built the Reva deck with 800 shields and shield throw. Game is good. The Saffron boss fight is pretty funny. She just uses random spells against you, so the fight went wildly out of control early and I face tanked a bunch of cards. I'm not sure it's great game design but it was certainly memorable.
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Mar 29, 2020 20:41
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I think part of the reason OSFE seems so inaccessible to people is that its learning curve is more of a cliff. You’re going to encounter lots of stuff you don’t know how to deal with in almost every fight in your first few games, and (for example) the first time you fight a boss is liable to be a complete disaster. And there are a lot of boss fights! It’s a different feeling than an RPG, where you can retry the same boss fight several times to get the hang of it.
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Mar 31, 2020 20:34
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OSFE crashed on me 😭 If you’re on the Switch, I’d probably recommend holding off for a little while, at least until the next patch gets published.
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Apr 4, 2020 03:25
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It’s additive! And yes, this does mean it’s basically useless with big one-shot effects, but powerful with multi hit cards like Minnie Gun. e: nice, our multi hit response will scale extremely well with spell power
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Apr 6, 2020 01:18
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megane posted:The heart is a miserable final boss, unpleasantly reminiscent of the Rebel Flagship. Roguelikes that have final bosses seem to make them terrible pretty consistently. It’s enough to make me miss Rodney. Why doesn’t the rebel flagship turn into an elf lord?
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Apr 7, 2020 19:23
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Finally got around to posting a One Step From Eden thread. I was trying to come up with a good OP but then I realized nobody gives a poo poo. Also gently caress the shopkeeper.
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Apr 7, 2020 23:25
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Robo Reagan posted:Is there anything that fits in the baby's first Roguelike like Dungeons of Dredmor? Finally getting in to this game and I want something to look forward to when I'm done with it. Good story or humor is a huge plus. Part of the reason it's hard for me to get in to some of these balls hard games is I don't have a story or anything to keep me going. There's an old SNES game called Mystery Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer, with an improved DS port, which fits the bill. It's simple and rewarding, and has a fair amount of story and a lot of character. It's not too long, either, so you don't have the soul-killing experience common in roguelikes of dying 12 hours in and losing everything. Chunsoft has made a ton of mystery dungeon games but as far as I can tell this is the only good one. It's really good, though. You'd have to emulate it, unless you have a DS or 3DS lying around.
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May 15, 2020 13:11
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END ME SCOOB posted:That last bit is a wild statement imo, unless you specifically mean "only the ones Chunsoft made" because they also made the incredibly good Dragon Quest MD titles. There's also a rumor that Shiren's latest game will hit PC soon but it's only been seen on the platform in a Chinese sizzle reel for Steam. I don't think it's that crazy. I haven't played every Mystery Dungeon so I can easily believe there are some good ones, but I've played several PMDs and Shiren 3 and none of them held up as roguelikes. I did hear Shiren 3 got ruined on its way over to the US though. I would like to believe they got their mojo back.
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May 16, 2020 13:27
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Oh yeah, that reminds me. There's been a lot of discussion of TOME over the last two pages, and reading it all, I have come to the conclusion that TOME is very bad. What's good about TOME? Why do you play it, and why should other people play it too? I tried it out a few years ago and bounced off very quickly, but that's common in roguelikes even if they're actually good.
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May 16, 2020 15:34
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Thanks to everyone who posted about what they enjoyed in TOME!
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May 17, 2020 20:44
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Yeah, everyone knows that a roguelike is a game with an item identification system.
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May 25, 2020 19:14
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Lawman 0 posted:Nevermind I died lol. Oof. Condolences. Valkyries don’t need to go down into the mines, because they already get a loadstone from their quest 
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May 26, 2020 04:02
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Lawman 0 posted:This was with a different gently caress around character. I was kind of wondering how a character who cleared the castle managed to die in the mines, but NetHack can always find a way.
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May 26, 2020 13:50
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The real problem with NAO is I can't find my logs from, like, 2006 or whenever I last played the game. I can still see my Crawl stats on CAO though, including the fact that I apparently have several wins with halfling necromancers for some ungodly reason.
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Jun 1, 2020 00:37
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Wolfechu posted:They should be there, I've got them going back to like 2005. If you used the same username throughout, you should be able to take this link and switch out my username for yours - I believe it's case sensitive, mind. Huh, crazy. I wonder if I managed to forget my old username then? The funny thing is I don't even remember when my wins actually were beyond the decade (20xx). Maybe I'll have to go dig around in !lg. I have vague memories of winning as a valk of Loki, which can't be that common, all things considered.
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Jun 1, 2020 22:56
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This is my 14-year-old experience talking, but ascension is almost always easy unless you gently caress up royally somehow. The secret meme ascension trick is to get a helm of opposite alignment from somewhere, and put it on in the astral plane if the wrong-alignment high altar is closer than the right one. This isn’t actually useful but it’s funny. Try not to escape in celestial disgrace. e: Also congrats! nrook fucked around with this message at 03:02 on Jun 6, 2020 |
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Jun 6, 2020 02:59
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DCSS is goon made, kind of, maybe, in a sense.
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Jun 29, 2020 00:26
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I think it’s silly to leave a negative review of a game you’ve played for 400 hours but the idea that it’s unethical is ridiculous. Players don’t owe creators anything, and to say otherwise is profoundly entitled. e: for balance, though, I must say that tuxedo catfish was totally wrong about crawl 10 years ago 
nrook fucked around with this message at 18:00 on Jul 15, 2020 |
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Jul 15, 2020 17:38
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One of the signs of a bad roguelike is that players never die early.
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Jul 27, 2020 14:52
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Motherfucker posted:how do you figure? In a roguelike, a part of the game where the player is in little danger is boring. Since the early game is played so often, it’s imperative that it be fun and exciting every time you play. Games can get away with midgame lulls for pacing reasons—it’s nice to have a break to relax—but the early game needs to stay interesting if you don’t want players dreading dying and having to play it again. I also think no roguelike should be too long (let’s say over 16 hours) for similar reasons. It’s incredibly frustrating to lose dozens of hours of progress in a single moment, and if the game takes that long, most of it must have been in low-risk moments.
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Jul 27, 2020 16:23
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Crypt of the Necrodancer is one of the best roguelikes on the Switch I find the game difficult to play without a keyboard so it didn't catch me there, but if you don't mind playing with a d-pad it'll be great.
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Jul 31, 2020 15:14
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ToxicFrog posted:Apropos mystery dungeon chat, what's a good one to try out if I've played a lot of roguelikes but no MD games specifically? (Apart from the fan-translated Shiren 3 on PSP, which I never got particularly far into...maybe I should try that again?) When I played Shiren the Wanderer DS when it was released, I was pretty convinced it was a masterpiece. (Admittedly, that was... let's save my dignity and say "a few years ago".) That's the one released under "Mysterious Dungeon: Shiren the Wanderer". I played the Wii game later and was not impressed, because it featured the sort of many-dungeon progression that defines most of the later Mystery Dungeon games; it was barely a roguelike. So I would check out the DS one if you're interested. Shiren has very few mechanics compared to most modern roguelikes, but it "works" as a game; it's challenging and engaging, and it's fun to learn the enemies and get good at it.
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Aug 4, 2020 01:41
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ToxicFrog posted:Thanks for the rec! I might actually check out the fan-translation of the SNES original first, since I find the DS really ergonomically unpleasant for a lot of games, while I can run SNES games on my PSP...we'll see. If I remember correctly most of the extra content in the DS version was bad (though the rescue system is good), so this is a fine choice. The part of Shiren I remember most fondly is the incredibly brutal enemies. There are some real vicious dudes in there. Good luck!
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Aug 5, 2020 00:44
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Rogue Legacy has a very clean, tight feel to it; Dead Cells feels a lot more subtle and mushy in comparison. I'm not sure how much of that is the actual game and how much is just the art style. I found Rogue Legacy much more fun when I started playing it with an arcade stick. Of course, it's definitely also true that Dead Cells is a better-crafted game than Rogue Legacy was (and also that the very concept of a Metroidvania roguelike is stupid, which is why Dead Cells doesn't really try to be that), but I can see why RL still has fans.
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Aug 18, 2020 00:03
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Zedlic posted:DCSS: Is there any mod or option or flag I can do to get damage numbers? I get the idea and philosophy behind not becoming a numbers grind, but I am a slave to them and would like to have them regardless. Or at least try out that flavor of the game if possible. As a longtime ASCII player, I must admit I find the idea incomprehensible that seeing an enemy go from “heavily wounded” in yellow text to “almost dead” in red font with a single “!!” isn’t viscerally satisfying. This is probably because I am insane.
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Sep 12, 2020 00:21
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I think metaprogression on more than a trivial level is a way for game designers to tell us players that they don’t think their game is fun enough to play without an addictive grinding element. This is convenient for us because it lets people save time by not playing games not even their creators think are good. (I actually don’t have a problem with Hades and am enjoying it a lot, but it’s trying something new with the genre: it’s not really the same kind of game as something like FTL or Spelunky.)
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Sep 26, 2020 17:01
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I'm willing to forgive Hades for a lot of its metaprogression because there's an important motivation for it beyond keeping players addicted to a Skinner box of rewards: the narrative of Hades works better if the player progresses at or near a specific pace, so rewards help keep players on or near that curve. Hades is a narrative game before it's an arcade-style game, so it's understandable for Supergiant to make changes that weaken the arcade-style or mastery-focused side of the game if they improve the narrative in turn.TooMuchAbstraction posted:Isn't it though? If I'm really interested in the lore or art or whatever of your game, buy I suck rear end at it because you made the kind of game that you like to play and that's a way higher bar than I can ever reach, then your game is inaccessible to me. There may not be anything about me that society would normally term a disability, but it still sucks that I don't get to experience many games, and it's cool when game devs make space for me in their designs. You can make good games and still be inclusive of the bad-at-gamed crowd. This is a good point but games don't need metaprogression to do it. It's great when games about mastering a skill include options to make it accessible to people who are just bad at that kind of game; the joy of the game is fundamentally about improving at it, but that doesn't mean the game shouldn't reward improving from "very bad" to "below average" with any less joy than improving from "above average" to "expert". I remember people praising Celeste for its options around this. e: Hades also has lots of aesthetic metaprogression and that poo poo owns. It was great in Monster Train and it's great here too. A+ game design element. nrook fucked around with this message at 00:18 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 00:13
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It must be frustrating to want to play hard games, but to lack the discipline to stick with them. That's the kind of experience that could easily make you bitter and resentful. e: There's nothing wrong with not liking hard games, of course, but it's embarrassing to hate them. nrook fucked around with this message at 21:30 on Sep 27, 2020 |
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Sep 27, 2020 21:23
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This isn’t really an important point, but a hill I’ll always die on is that Crypt of the Necrodancer is almost as “roguelike” as NetHack or Crawl, and it makes sense to think of it as part of the same genre. Among the modern generation of games influenced by Rogue and its descendants, it stands alone (maybe with Spelunky) as having the cleverest design.
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Oct 11, 2020 05:43
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Yeah, I just say my unpopular opinions in Games threads! A dislike of arcade-style games without metaprogression speaks to a lack of discipline and moral character.
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Oct 23, 2020 20:48
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Hard mode: come up with a definition of "roguelite" that doesn't include Civilization V.
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Oct 23, 2020 23:38
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Ciaphas posted:hah, never thought of your old three-lives games that way. I almost think it's the other way around. Rogue is an RPG structured like an arcade game; people talk about "permadeath" in roguelikes because roguelikes are the only RPG-like games with an arcade-like game structure. Nobody would say Tetris (or ironman Civilization, for that matter) has "permadeath", but it's the same idea. I think the only reason Civilization isn't a "game with roguelike elements" is historical: strategy games like Civ always had lots of randomness both in how the player develops and how the opposition does, so it's not like they took inspiration from Rogue or its descendants. Whereas the early "action game with roguelike elements" developers like Derek Yu were directly inspired by roguelikes; there is a real lineage there. e: also no poo poo you'd think Hades had bad controls if you played KB+M, the title screen literally says "you should probably use a controller"
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Oct 24, 2020 19:39
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Metaprogression-heavy roguelites are middlebrow but I don’t think a relatively short unlock phase does any harm. The game should include an escape hatch or cheat code to unlock everything, though; I never play Slay the Spire on my Switch because there’s no way I’m going to start from Ascension 0 all over again.
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Dec 8, 2020 06:10
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How much metaprogression does the new Shiren have? The DS Shiren is one of my favorite roguelikes, but what I really liked about it was that you could play it with only light metaprogression stuff. Things like funding the restaurant were fine, but it wasn't like you had to grind in order to do most of the interesting content. The dungeons you did have to bring in external equipment for were the ones I never did.
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Dec 18, 2020 00:41
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Question about the new Shiren. I'm having trouble getting my head around night. Is there any way to tell what level an enemy monster is without hitting them with something? It's all well and good to carry a bunch of rocks around, but it'd be nice to be able to tell instantly.
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Dec 28, 2020 21:28
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Austin S posted:When a Night monster levels up, their HP and damage increase isn't nearly as drastic as when a Day monster gains a level. They also don't "transform" upon level up so any damage they've taken so far will persist. (At least, it seems that way from my frequent use of Concussive Cannon) There's a good chance you could finish it off with an ability with C or B-Rank damage and save your A or S-Rank abilities for one that recently spawned or is blocking your path to the stairs. This is useful, thanks!
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Jan 1, 2021 04:52
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I don't really have a strong opinion about tutorial-esque metaprogression, but I would like to call out Monster Train's gilded cards as a brilliant example of unlockable stuff in a roguelike that doesn't harm the core game. Achievements and aesthetic unlocks are a great way to provide fun goals for the player to shoot for without tainting the game itself.
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Jan 19, 2021 01:53
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Beamed posted:If it were a roguelike you would gain bonuses and attributes after each failed run. I hope you soon get the chance to identify your items
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Feb 5, 2021 15:59
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Jack Trades posted:I had a discussion about roguelikes as a genre with a friend of mine and his final takeaway from it was I think this is actually a really good way to think about the genre. Arcade games have a lot going for them, but one of the things that makes them a niche experience is that they're typically a similar experience every time you play. A lot of indie games nowadays are essentially "arcade games but with random elements". The throughline back to Rogue is certainly there (nobody could play Spelunky and not see a bit of NetHack in it), but just as important I think is that game makers have found random elements a good way to make arcade-style games more fun to a general audience.
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Feb 18, 2021 16:20
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