Brannock posted:

I'm also told there are "twitchings" in the Romanian political scene - does anyone know more regarding this?

crowfeathers posted:

In Romania, there has been an increase in support for The New Right, a group which is affiliated with and works with Golden Dawn, and which literally uses 1920s Romanian Fascist iconography in its propaganda. They call for the persecution of immigrants, LGBTQ citizens, and communists, as well as the annexation of Hungary. Unlike Golden Dawn, however, they have been refused registration as a political party and as such are limited to rallies and physical violence against anyone they dislike. Which is, I suppose, technically a better situation.

quote:

The organization's leader has his own rock group, Brigada de Asalt (The Assault Brigade), which specializes in ultranationalist and far right Romanian legionnaire-oriented songs.

General China posted:

The Catholic Church aint doing so well on historical dictators during the 20th century either. Its got all the western european ones- Hitler, Mussolini and Franco. Its also got all the South American ones too.

ThirdPartyView posted:

Didn't most of the Catholic Church leadership also support Salazar for a good part of his reign in Portugal?

quote:

Between 1971 and 1991 in Czechoslovakia, now Czech Republic and Slovakia, the “reduction of the Roma population” through surgical sterilization, performed without the knowledge of the women themselves, was a widespread governmental practice. The sterilization would be performed on Romani women without their knowledge during Caesarean sections or abortions. Some of the victims claim that they were made to sign documents without understanding their content. By signing these documents, they involuntarily authorized the hospital to sterilize them. In exchange, they sometimes were offered financial compensation or material benefits like furniture from Social Services – though it was not explicitly stated what this compensation was for. The justification for sterilization practices according to the stakeholders was “high, unhealthy” reproduction.

They sterilized thousands of Roma women in this way. The Czech ombudsman estimated that more than 90,000 women from former Czechoslovakia became infertile as a consequence of such interventions. If the evidence for such treatments performed in the past is not alarming enough, there seems to be proof that this practice was not only common during the Communist era: there are women reporting the same crime in post-Communist times as well, even after Czechoslovakia split into Czech Republic and Slovakia. In what is today Slovakia, 1000 Roma women and girls were sterilized annually in the 1980s. Unfortunately, the practice of forced sterilization in this region of Europe seems to persist to some extent, with cases emerging in other countries as well.

The European Roma Rights Centre pointed at two cases of Romani women who were sterilized in Hungary without their consent. One of them relates back to 2001, when a young woman, A.S. accused a hospital for sterilizing her without her knowledge. Following eight years of intensive lobbying, with several organizations started pressuring the government, in 2009 the Hungarian state compensated A.S. The court acknowledged that the surgery was performed without her knowledge, but it also claimed that the surgery did not harm A.S.’s reproductive capacity as the sterilization was purportedly “reversible”. The second case taken up by ERRC is still in process, as it was rejected in the first instance by the Hungarian Court.

quote:

Under the leadership of Becali, the ideology of the party has come close to that of the inter-war fascist legionary movement with an added twist of opportunism, demagogy and gutter talk. In the past, Becali has appropriated symbols and slogans of the Iron Guard, and the party slogan currently displayed on its official website - »Serving the Cross and the Romanian Nation!« – reflects this fusion of conservative Christian Orthodoxy and mythologised nationalism. In terms of structure, the PNG-CD resembles the PRM inasmuch as it is largely centred on its leader. Thus, what the party lacks in programme is made up for by Becali’s insulting language, homophobia and intolerance. So far he has been fined several times by the National Council for Combating Discrimination for making discriminatory statements against women, the Roma and other ethnic minorities, and he is well known for his homophobic statements. At one point he stated that he would never hire gay players in his football team and that »homosexuals are protected by Satan« (ProTV, 2012)

quote:

The inclusion of the Romanian Orthodox Church (BOR) in a study of the extreme right in Romania is motivated by the role it has played in informing and influencing the extreme right discourse in Romania. The BOR has a long history of articulating and/or supporting an ethnically based conception of the nation. Over time, the BOR ideological position has intersected (directly or implicitly) with that of other extremist political groups. In inter-war Romania, the collaboration between the Iron Guard and the Orthodox Church was extensive, with a large number of priests sympathising with the Iron Guard and even running in elections for the »Everything for the Country« Party (Iordachi, 2004: 35). Currently, the attitude of the BOR can be summarised – as Andreescu (2004:178) points out – in terms of four characteristics: its exclusivist nationalist definition of the Romanian state (equating the Romanian state with the Romanian nation and the Romanian nation with the Christian Orthodox faith); its authoritarian, fundamentalist tendency to subordinate the notion of rule of law to that of divine right; the use of aggressive instruments to protect its position; and its ability to mobilise people and resources to achieve its aims.

Considering that Romania recently occupied sixth place in a global index of religiosity (WIN-Gallup International 2012) and that Christian Orthodoxy is the dominant religion in Romania, it is no surprise that the BOR manages to exercise such a large degree of influence over public life. Owing to this privileged position, it is common for political figures to pander to the BOR. Political figures across the whole political spectrum often attend various religious celebrations to gain political advantage. The BOR is also able to exert pressure on parliament and on political parties in order to achieve favourable outcomes for its various causes. During the electoral campaign of 2004, for example, after being repeatedly criticised by Pimen, the Archbishop of Suceava and Rădăuţi, then Prime Minister and presidential candidate Adrian Năstase was forced to seek a public reconciliation with the Archbishop and to pledge support in pressing the court case concerning the return of 90,000 hectares of forest to the Orthodox Church (Ziarul de Iaşi, 2004).

The nationalist and intolerant attitudes of the BOR are visible through its involvement in other areas of public life. It has, for example, been a staunch activist against the rights of sexual minorities through its publications and has provided a rallying point for other civil society groups campaigning against the rights of homosexuals in Romania. In addition, there are documented links between the BOR and neo-legionary groups in Romania, including meetings of such organisations hosted in churches or participation by Orthodox priests in events organised by them.

Consequently, the BOR has played an important role in the shaping of the extreme right in Romania. Its ideological position has functioned as a key reference point and source of inspiration for various such movements and organisations, which have incorporated aspects of it in their discourse. On a more concrete level, the BOR’s involvement in public life has often lent legitimacy to attitudes and actions and even provided a point of convergence for extremist views.

Jedit posted:

They should have called that song "If You Can't Beat The Fascists, Join Them".

Pesmerga posted:

So, in your opinion the battle of Cable Street was wrong then?

quote:

While holding a one-man protest against LGBT rights violations in Russia, activist Krill Kalugin was attacked by an angry mob of Russian military paratroopers in St. Petersburg Friday, August 2. The Russian paratroopers were celebrating Russia’s Paratroopers Day, an annual military pride celebration which according to the Animal New York traditionally involves groups of soldiers spilling into public square for merriment, flag waving, wallowing in public fountains and miscellaneous public drunkenness. In a video captured by PaperPaper.ru, a young man is surrounded by a mob of angry paratroopers who begin attacking him and hurling profanity laden questions at the young man. “What the gently caress were you thinking, showing up at Palace Square, human being?” yells the groups leader.

Only moments earlier, activist Krill Kalugin was peacefully picketing in the Palace Square with a rainbow banner that reads “This is propagating tolerance.” When the police finally show up to the detain the LGBT activist, the paratroopers begin attacking them as well. Russian special forces arrived (wearing “OMOH” jackets), and begin detaining the drunken soldiers only resulting in more fights between the soldiers and the police.

quote:

You may recognize Pavel Petel as an openly gay model-activist, and gender-bending muscle stud originally from the Ukraine, but currently living in Russia. With Russia’s recent passage of anti-gay laws basically forbidding the use of the word gay or any so-called homosexual ‘propaganda of nontraditional sexual relations,’ LGBT entertainment blog The Back Building interviewed Petel to see how he was coping and whether he was planning on leaving Russia.

Despite his muscular and masculine appearance, he’s says he is scared to walk down the streets in Moscow. He says he’s been harassed and beaten, and says he is even thinking of leaving Russia to escape the persecution that continues to worsen.

Jedit posted:

The Cable Street protesters chose to start the fight; in the process they surrendered the moral high ground.

quote:

They also did a lot to prove that Mosley was right

Jedit posted:

ReV VAdAUL posted:

Can you offer evidence of this? I'd be interested to see it.

Civilized Fishbot posted:

Is there a reason why tactics such as raising awareness/providing alternatives so that individuals don't turn to fascism/politically empowering marginalized groups/aiding poor communities would not work in bringing down fascism?

quote:

The Klan ceased its activities in Robeson County thereafter.

Jedit posted:

Civilized Fishbot posted:

No, a group could certainly act against fascist groups in both violent and nonviolent ways. My concern is that acting against them in violent ways could prove to accomplish less than it would empower fascist groups through allowing them to claim oppression/violent repression - which could cause their own followers to become more radicalized and those on the fence to lean toward the supposedly-oppressed fascist group.

If anti-fascist groups could accomplish a string of Battles of Hayes Pond, then that would work well - thanks for linking that article! It's an inspiring story that I didn't know about before today. The issue is that it would be really difficult to outnumber the Golden Dawn by 10:1, which happened in that retaliation. It seems like the Lumbee men were able to basically send away the entire area's Klan presence in a single night, and I'm not sure that could be done with today's European fascist groups.

Jedit posted:

Says the man who hasn't even backed up his theory on what I said in this thread with a quote that proves it.

Fojar38 posted:

Cerebral Bore posted:

You don't go out and beat up the fash for shits and giggles, you go out and beat the fash when they're trying to stomp on some immigrant neighbourhood.

Fojar38 posted:

The lack of self-awareness in this thread is nothing short of astonishing. Everyone has the right to assemble, protest, and participate in politics no matter how vile and ugly their opinions are. This is the very foundation of democracy.

Fojar38 posted:

I'm pretty sure that I've said that what is occurring in Greece has moved beyond politics as the Golden Dawn has begun to use violence. I think that there is a moral imperative to oppose fascists when they become violent. But banning political parties for saying things that you don't like undermines democracy. Violence is the threshold that must be crossed first.

Silver2195 posted:

I guess your defense of McCarthyism means you're at least intellectually consistent.

Fojar38 posted:

Chamale posted:

Not before that point because someone identifies the local conservative party as a fascist group.

KazigluBey posted:

What's being suggested here by you lot is that examples of ideology of fascism turning violent must be divorced from consideration of the ideology itself. That Golden Dawn is an issue, granted, but that it cannot be used as an argument against its core ideology. So in essence any ideology, no matter how hateful or dangerous must be allowed political agency through the party system until it becomes violent, at which point it is divorced from the party that went violent and we just shrug our shoulders and soldier on. How many free plays should this be valid for, in your opinions? How many do-overs does an ideology get before we decide that maybe, just maybe, if its core tenants are inherently violent and giving them legitimacy may be a bad idea?

quote:

In a 30-second clip made public by Spectrum Human Rights Alliance, Russian news host Dmitry Kiselev, called the donation of human organs by homosexuals ‘unsuitable for the continuation of life’ and ‘must be buried or burned.’ His statements aired on the news show Historical Process on Rossiya 1, Russia’s primary state-owned television network in April, and received the applause of the audience members.

Said Kiselev:
"I think that just imposing fines on gays for homosexual propaganda among teenagers is not enough. They should be banned from donating blood, sperm. And their hearts, in case of automobile accident, should be buried in the ground or burned as unsuitable for the continuation of life."

As Spectrum Human Rights Alliance notes in the videos description, the state TV channel is under the direct control of Vladimir Putin and Dmitry Kiselev is therefore on the Kremlin’s payroll.

Obdicut posted:

I just don't think we can actually guarantee the safety of the athletes. Putin's government won't give a poo poo if they get beaten up or even killed.

SickZip posted:

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/482897/20130625/paris-neo-nazi-video-clement-meric-killed.htm

Clement Meric was a bash the fash idiot who been stalking Morillo, they found pictures and information about him in Merics appartment, and then proceeded to get killed with a single defensive punch when he tried to attack him.

ekuNNN posted:

Greek rapper and anti-fascist Pavlos Fyssas was stabbed to death yesterday by Golden Dawn members.
According to his father:

quote:

Pavlos’ friends made a remark against Golden Dawn inside a café where they were watching a football match. Somebody from a nearby table overheard them and made a phone call to Golden Dawn members. Golden Dawn squads arrived almost simultaneously with DIAS motorbike police. Pavlos tried to help his friends evade the scene, but he was ambushed by another Golden Dawn squad and surrounded. Then another Golden Dawn associate drove with his car opposite in an one-way street, stopped and stabbed him to death, while the DIAS policemen did not intervene. One girl [allegedly Pavlos' girlfriend] asked them to help but they didn’t. They only approached afterwards to arrest the man with the main suspect.

This is after this happened last week:

quote:

Thousands of Greeks took to the streets of Athens on Friday to protest against a violent attack on Communist party members by black-shirted supporters of the neo-Nazi Golden Dawn party which left nine people in hospital with serious injuries.

In what was described as a murderous attack – and the most serious violence since the extremist group was elected to the country's parliament last year – about 50 men wielding crowbars and bats set upon leftists as they distributed posters in a working-class district of the capital late on Thursday.

It seems the fascists in Greece are getting bolder. Here is an older picture of Golden Dawn hunting an immigrant in Greece:


This is happening at the moment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=okdbGcdXh9Y

And this is the cops protecting the Golden Dawn headquarters earlier:


And thousands of people holding an anti-fascist demonstration at the site of the murder:

quote:

A previously unknown urban guerrilla group calling itself Militant Popular Revolutionary Forces has claimed responsibility for the murders of two Golden Dawn members on November 1.

Zougla.gr news website said that it received a phone call at 4.50 p.m. on Saturday in which the caller said a memory stick had been placed in an envelope that was left in a rubbish bag at the Kaisariani rifle range, where a monument to more than 200 Greeks executed by Nazi occupiers stands today.

The proclamation begins with a quote from José Buenaventura Durruti Dumange - a key figure in the Spanish anarchist movement in the 1920s and 30 - that claims no government truly wants to combat fascism.

The authors of the proclamation say that the two Golden Dawn members, 22-year-old Manolis Kapelonis and 26-year-old Giorgos Fountoulis, were killed in a “political execution” in revenge for the murder of rapper Pavlos Fyssas, who was stabbed to death by another supporter of the Neo-Nazi party, Giorgos Roupakias.

The proclamation also dedicates the murders to immigrants and says that the killings are just the start of the group’s campaign against Golden Dawn and its members.

Police did not immediately comment on the note’s authenticity.

quote:

Thousands of Greeks, marking the 40th anniversary of the Athens Polytechnic uprising – an event that would trigger the end of military rule in Greece – took to the streets on Sunday after socialist militants claimed responsibility for the murder of two members of the extremist Golden Dawn party.

As demonstrators prepared to commemorate the symbolic date, a previously unknown group of anti-establishment leftists raised the political temperature by vowing to relocate the far-rightists to "the dustbin of history".

"The Militant People's Revolutionary Forces assumes responsibility for the political executions of … the neo-Nazis," said the gang in an 18-page proclamation sent to a local news portal.

"The armed attack-response … is the starting point of the people's campaign to send the neo-Nazi scum of Golden Dawn where they belong, the dustbin of history."

Amid heightened fears of escalating violence in the debt-stricken country, the assailants described the drive-by shootings as retribution for the fatal stabbing of Pavlos Fyssas, a leftwing rapper killed by a self-confessed Golden Dawn supporter in September. And, in chilling language, warned more attacks would follow.

"The revolutionary movement has to proceed with the material destruction of the infrastructure of Golden Dawn and in a coordinated [fashion] attack those who belong to it … their heads should be cracked open with a hammer, their hands cut off, by way of example, with a sickle."

Some 8,000 policemen were seconded to patrol the boulevards of Athens as a sea of Greeks paid tribute to those killed when the military junta sent a tank crashing through the polytechnic's gates to repress a student revolt.

At least 24 are believed to have died in the bloody suppression with most of the casualties among the 150,000 non-student civilians who had converged on the streets outside the campus in an unprecedented display of opposition to the regime.

For a nation that has become increasingly polarised in the midst of economic crisis, the event is a defining moment, hallowed in the minds of many as the catalyst of the collapse of seven years of military rule only decades after a brutal left-right civil war.

"The mood this year is very similar to 1973 when there was a feeling that the junta was disintegrating and people were full of expectation," said Panos Garganas, a prominent leftist and editor of the newspaper Workers Solidarity.

"After five years of worsening levels of austerity and poverty there is a sense that things are coming to an end, that the situation cannot continue," he told the Guardian as he marched through the streets. "We give the government six months at most."

Dissatisfaction with an administration called to enforce deeply unpopular spending cuts in return for international funds to prop up the country's moribund economy has been reflected in rising support for the radical left main opposition Syriza party.

A poll released on Saturday showed the neo-fascist Golden Dawn also gaining in strength in the aftermath of the November 16th attack, which saw two of its members gunned down outside a local party branch in Athens.

Despite accusations of being a criminal organisation – and a government crackdown that has seen its leader and two other deputies imprisoned pending trial – backing for the anti-immigrant group grew by 2.2 percentage points over the past month. With 8.8% of the vote, the far-rightists remained Greece's third biggest political force according to the survey conducted by Alcofor for the weekly Proto Thema newspaper.

As in 1973, radio broadcasts were boomed from the campus on Sunday – only this time by fired employees from the former public broadcaster ERT denouncing the belt-tightening policies of prime minister Antonis Samaras and his two-party coalition.

The protest march, which traditionally ends at the US embassy to denounce Washington's controversial support for the regime, followed two days of unusually poignant commemorations at the polytechnic, with politicians, unionists and ordinary Greeks laying wreaths at the site.

"With our country basically under foreign occupation, the slogans and lessons of the uprising are as relevant today as they were back then," said Christina Minassa, selling leftist literature at a stall outside the campus. "The battle against fascism goes on. In Greece those on the left have suffered greatly."

President Karolos Papoulias, who has become an increasingly vocal critic of the austerity meted out by the EU and IMF in exchange for aid, called the student rebellion "deeply didactic".

"The way in which they laid claim to the freedom of all of us … is deeply didactic," he said. "Their battle was decisive and dynamic but peaceful, they didn't promote violence, they suffered violence," he said in a clear reference to the resurgence of political violence now haunting the country.

Mans posted:

The reports that talk about leftists being driven away also talk about rejection of LGBT protesters and the open anti communist stance of the far right is open and clear throughout the entire thing.

Ardennes posted:

Ultimately there isn't much to go on, because by and large it is very difficult to tell the political motives of those involved unless they actually were talking around with a flag or symbols. If anything it was largely anonymous over many times the flags you saw were UPA and Ukranian in the more violent sections in the protests rather than EU and Ukrainian in the maidan itself, and sometimes you might see a Svoboda or a UDAR flag. This became more mixed and convoluted in the last days as the riot police charged right into the maidan itself. However, one thing is for sure, it was hard to find any leftist flags of note (unless you mistook a UPA flag for an Anarchist one). I don't remember seeing any rainbow flags either.

Mans posted:

You didn't see people posting about how fascist present in the protests isn't a bad thing, that they being on the "good" side is not something to be concerned about and that thinking two times about it means you're just worried about your ideologic purity?

You don't need a majority of people to be on the far right parties for them to spread their poison.