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Meh, I feel like you are overstating your case here. Barring some edge cases like Greece, I'm not convinced these fascist movements are in any way a threat to liberal democratic order. The vast, vast majority of fascist organizations in the first world fizzles out without achieving any sort of power. So while it's easy to find scary pictures of goosestepping idiots their mere existence is not in any way an evidence of Europe is going back to 30's. Far, far more dangerous possibility is not the fascists overthrowing liberal democracy, but conservatives co-opting (some of) their rhetoric for their own ends and presenting (some of) their policies as the new conservative normal. This is what's happening in Russia, UK, France, Austria and Switzerland. Anti-immigrant and specifically anti-Muslim hatred is undoubtedly on the rise but that hatred is not channeled to proper fascist organizations no matter how much fascists would want to. Instead it's finding more and more voice in conservative circles and that's a far more troubling development. Fascists do not need to achieve national power to do untold amount of harm to a community, so you do not need to wait for the new führer to take power to fight fascists. But at the same time focusing on these small-time fascist organizations at the expense of ignoring mainstream politics is a fatal mistake. fspades fucked around with this message at 04:33 on Aug 10, 2013 |
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Aug 10, 2013 04:31
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| # ¿ May 12, 2024 19:05 |
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Regarde Aduck posted:It's returned and it's advancing faster than anyone's worst nightmares. It's important to realise that a particular country's outlying factions are not the ones to watch. The overt racist and thugs are discredited and disliked by the upper middle classes which limits their power. For now. Instead pay attention to the narrative of a countries media. In the UK we've had a string of "documentaries" villainising the poor and the problem has slowly creeped its way towards attacking the disabled. A doctor got in a tabloid newspaper complaining that Stephen Hawking works so disabled people should not get benefits. There was leaked documents from the government of a canceled workfair (work for access to benefits, slavery by another name) project that would "house" disabled people in "centers" where they could be "productive". It was a plan for bringing back the workhouse and this time for disabled people. In the UK the media is either supporting the government or ignoring issues it feels it cannot put a positive spin on. It has nothing negative to say which is indicative of the unfolding agenda. This post was from a bit back but it's putting my thoughts more eloquently than I've did earlier in the thread. The way right-wing politics is taking shape in the west is very disturbing but that's not necessarily means a return to fascism. Fascism in my mind is a very specific and unmistakable type of political movement and what we are seeing is not the revival of big-f Fascism but a more insidious ideology that has way more chance of success and the results might not necessarily mean a better result than a Fascist government. We are seeing the normalization of trampling on individual liberties under the guise of maintaning security and public order. We are seeing advocation of "natural" hierarchies and we are seeing general scape-goating of everything foreign or deviant. But these things are not done in a fascist manner or with fascist organizations. If anything we are seeing the revival of conservatism as liberal democracy falters. True conservatism, that is... The kind that does not even pretend to pay lip service to liberalism. The kind that would hand the country to fascists if they believed it was slipping out of their control. I mean we can talk about whether bashing the fash is the right thing to do for pages here, even though very few in this forum actually has experience in such matters. But frankly? It does not matter unless you are in somewhere like Greece or some eastern European place teetering on the collapse. You are wasting your time with this kind of posturing when there are far more bigger developments going on. Don't get tunnel-vision when it comes to this issue is what I'm saying.
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Aug 11, 2013 03:36
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So here is a question: Do you guys consider parties like FN, PVV, FPÖ etc. as fascist? What about more edge cases like Jobbik or MHP? Where would you put these movements in a fascism scale of 1 and 10 where 10 is Golden Dawn? I think getting our definitions down is very important here because otherwise we might be talking about a bunch of separate things when we say "rise" of fascism in Europe.
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Aug 11, 2013 08:02
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Full Battle Rattle posted:Is there anywhere that can offer a fairly good history on fascism? Check out "The Anatomy of Fascism" by Robert Paxton.
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Aug 11, 2013 09:06
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We know which side the cops are on but what about the army? What if the government really went after the GD and used the noncooperation of the police as a pretext to roll out the tanks? Is such a situation desirable?
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Sep 20, 2013 17:54
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a bad enough dude posted:Well, looks like they're actually going to ban them. Yeah, but who's going to enforce that ban?
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Sep 21, 2013 13:43
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duck monster posted:I think its about some dude who got shot by cops, and the court dropping the case because they didnt think he (the cop?) could get a fair trial? Basically, yes. Radikal also mentions the judge and the prosecutor was sleeping during the proceedings. The shooting of Sarisülük was captured by several cameras and it's pretty obvious the cop was not acting in self defense.
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Dec 8, 2013 11:55
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Mans posted:
That's doubly interesting when you consider, you know, Portuguese history. I mean, holy poo poo even the American South had nothing on the Brazilian plantation complex. It's amazing people can look at that colonial legacy and go "racism in Portugal?? Nope, we didn't have anything to do with that.But look at those fuckers over there!"
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Jan 8, 2015 08:02
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