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Nintendo Kid posted:If US culture is so "garbage" then why do the rest of you lot love it so much. Don't try to pretend you don't, we all see how well our stuff sells in your countries. It sells so well because in many cases you own the media and either flood it with your own to dilute ours, or straight up block any of ours from ever seeing the light of day. It's easy to make us "love" american media when it's the only thing on the menu at the cinema and nobody has any loving idea where to see something locally made.
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Jan 9, 2015 08:56
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icantfindaname posted:So this is why Soviet media was renowned for its quality, and millions of people in Western Europe were tuning their radios to Communist stations for entertainment? A lot of it actually is, soviet filmmakers were as pioneering as western ones and they made a lot of well known and loved movies. I'd say people in western europe weren't tuning in to soviet radio because FM doesn't carry for hundreds of miles.
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Jan 12, 2015 09:56
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Really it's a shame they didn't incorporate the smart people they were creating into the ruling tiers of the party in a more constructive way. Then maybe they could have followed a better ideological path than revolution > war > i guess we have an empire now > i'm out of ideas, don't do anything > this sucks > whoops everything exploded.
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Jan 12, 2015 15:39
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Disinterested posted:They did in the military, but cultural elites are harder to subordinate because they inherently require free expression. I think you should probably read my post again, champ.
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Jan 12, 2015 16:47
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Disinterested posted:I think I got it, slugger. Given you responded as if I said they should somehow subdue them I don't think you did. It's okay, you made a mistake. Many people do that.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:13
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Disinterested posted:Nope, the mistake is your's I'm afraid - you just got defensive because you thought I was misreading you. My point is that there was no way cultural figures in the USSR could have been included without being subordinated - the USSR was structurally repressive in its nature. A USSR that incorporates freely expressing cultural elites is not the USSR, by definition. However, because militarism was also intrinsic to the Soviet system, the system incorporated military scientists and leaders very readily (though they weren't above purges, in the Stalinist years in particular, at all). "You should have used the correct fuse instead it would've worked out better." "stop being ahistorical and wondering about counterfactuals. What's done is done, if I hadn't replaced the missing fuse with a nail and burned our house down when the power surged then I just wouldn't be me." Now you've finished wanking over the inability to go back and correct past mistakes and mankind's objective lack of freewill, or whatever, do you have anything good or useful to add to the conversation? Regardless cultural figures absolutely could have played a very important role in building soviet society and keeping the party's ideology fresh. The entire history of the soviet union wasn't already decided when Lenin got out of bed one fateful day in november, and what USSR means "by definition" is no more defined by what celebrities did than "United Kingdom" is by me clipping my toenails. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 17:33 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 17:26
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Disinterested posted:Your argument is like saying 'what if fascism didn't involve nationalism irridentism, expansionism, militarism and state repression' - then it wouldn't be fascism. The Soviet system was built on repression backed by force. Once you remove the repression the Soviet system dissolves or is overthrown. The soviet system is a bunch of councils arranged in a pyramid. They started and ended as multiparty entities, even. Disinterested posted:No, it wasn't, although the jacobin early period of Soviet Communism was necessary to put it in to power, and thus negated a lot of its moral force. It's for this reason that Ryutin, Trotsky and others, refer to Stalin as 'the gravedigger of communism'. Putting aside that famous argument in Soviet theory, just look at what happened in the USSR when a more open policy with regard to speech, thought etc. was adopted. And what happened was directly caused by what I suggested they shouldn't have done. Hell, you talk about "early period of Soviet Communism" negating it's moral force but like, what does "early period" even mean? The early period was full of free expression and avant garde loving everything, the Stalin and post stalin USSR you speak of was a much later thing. That alone puts the nail in the coffin for your argument that somehow the USSR had to be the way it was to meet the definition of being the USSR. I would have thought being the same state with the same name would be enough, but hey ho. HorseLord fucked around with this message at 17:41 on Jan 12, 2015 |
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Jan 12, 2015 17:35
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Disinterested posted:At this point the troll/mental defect becomes obvious. This conversation between us started because you couldn't understand the basic human tendency to wonder how something could have been better than it was.
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Jan 12, 2015 17:45
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