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I've started playing again after being away since shortly before MotU released. Unfortunately, I'm on Khyber, so probably won't be joining you guys in-game, but I have a few questions about how the game has changed. I'm working on getting my melee Bard (Brd15/Rog3/Ftr2) back up to speed. I understand that Fort save is more important now that easy poison and disease immunity has gone away. How important? What sort of Fort save should a melee aim for by cap? Is Fort more important than Reflex now? And is Will important now? Is there anything Inspire Excellence doesn't stack with? I saw some forum threads saying it doesn't stack with the +1 from ToD rings, but I tested it on Lamannia, and it gave me +2 all stats, even though I have ToD rings. What are the best Khopeshes? Where do LitIIs rank nowadays? What's the best armor for an Evasion character? Or at least, what's the next step up from Dragontouched? I know the AC system changed; is AC now worth it if you're not going to be maximizing it? What sort of AC is reasonable for a melee?
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Aug 21, 2013 15:46
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Fort saves aren't all that needed still, disease/poison doesn't crop up all that often and isn't that bad IMO, if you want decent saves for epic elite you're probably looking at 70+. Will you can still ignore mostly, they've been nerfing buffs like FoM and deathward recently so it might be relevant eventually. Best armour after DT is probably dragon scale and then epic dragonscale. Khops are generally bad now as everything else got buffed and new high level nameds. So lootgen is best.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:00
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Is there a way to see if I have a +3 or +4 ability tome if I am under level 15? I've been away a while and can't remember which I had. Is elven dex AA with rogue splash for traps a good way to run a non-caster TR life? Or maybe just do 6 ranger, 7 rogue, rest in fighter/barb/paladin/rogue/ranger? E: Also are heroic elite traps still instadeath to most people without evasion? Kylra fucked around with this message at 18:27 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 18:24
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I don't think there is, other than trying to use one and it won't let you. And yep, traps still kill you on heroic elite if you get hit a few times. In fact, stuff like Litany of the Dead's force trap parade or Crucible kills my lvl 25 arti with 44 reflex if I get hit more than a couple of times.
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Aug 21, 2013 18:52
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Woden posted:Fort saves aren't all that needed still, disease/poison doesn't crop up all that often and isn't that bad IMO, if you want decent saves for epic elite you're probably looking at 70+. Will you can still ignore mostly, they've been nerfing buffs like FoM and deathward recently so it might be relevant eventually. How much benefit do you get from a 70? And how hard is to get there? I'm at about 30 now, still at 20, not wearing any new gear. Are there some crazy high item bonuses available now? Or is 70 only practical for a Barb with a monster CON? quote:Khops are generally bad now as everything else got buffed and new high level nameds. So lootgen is best. What are the best TWF weapons to be looking for, then? What's the next step up from LitII Khopeshes?
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Aug 21, 2013 18:53
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60ish was only fail on a 1 in Epic Elite at 25. So 65-70 sounds about right for 28. It's basically limited to paladin splash for all saves that high, a Barb might be able to get Fort that high, but in general it's gonna take paladin levels and/or destiny twists to a specific save. There's also the new level 27 feats that give +2 to a save and you can't fail on a 1 anymore. And at level 28 stat items go up to +11, resist items go up to at least +8 (augments are that high). [Edit] Resistance +10 is available on one named item, +9 on two others. Ideally you'd be switching to two-handed fighting as a Bard and using Breach or Cleaver with Epic Elemental Greataxe of Fire or Epic Antique Greataxe if you have one laying around as an interim weapon [Edit] or a Stout Oak Walking Stick if you don't have those. If you want to stay TWF though you can grab a pair of Oathblades until you can get a pair of Celestia from Caught in the Web. You can try finding a good Holy of Bloodletting khopesh or something if you really want to stick with them, but it's probably best to drop the feat. [Edit] Also AC is worth shooting for pre-20, post 20 it's not that hard to get a usable number in Epic Hard, but if you're aiming for Epic Elite it's not worth focusing on AC, and EH is easy enough that I wouldn't devote a ton of slots to it. DemonMage fucked around with this message at 19:53 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 19:44
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The expansion is new and I don't know the ins and outs so only guessing at 70+, epic GH you want 65+ saves for no fail. Failing fort saves generally doesn't mean much at cap unless I'm missing something and for saves in general you'll see some benefit from maybe 45+ or so depending on the content you run, less if you're just doing epic norm but who cares about normal. As for buffing saves resistance items got up to +10 now, stat enhancements to +11, epic destinies, pres, etc. all buff them by a big amount if you're willing to invest into it. For the next tier in weapons check out the Caught in the Web raid, lots of nice things just no khopesh sadly. Epic destinies and now prestiges have lots of synergy with certain types of weapons so have a look at those too.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:51
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Disintegrations in EE are the big thing where failing a fort save sucks. Especially as a lower hitdie class, taking 500+ damage on a failed save means you have to hope you're not down too far when that happens. Outside of Epic Gianthold I don't remember that being an issue ever really though, but I haven't touched the brand new stuff.
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Aug 21, 2013 19:57
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God all these enhancements look (well, aside from FVS) fantastic and interesting. I don't get how pubbies could cry and whine on the forums. Looking at Barb enhancements now, I don't even know what I want to do. They all look good and fun. Occult Slayer? Get hosed spell-caster scum. No fun allowed.  Frenzied Berserker? I cut me and then I cut you.  Ravager? Well I don't have anything cute for this one but it looks pseudo-tanky as poo poo and you want everyone to punch you.
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Aug 21, 2013 20:14
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Tsurupettan posted:God all these enhancements look (well, aside from FVS) fantastic and interesting. I don't get how pubbies could cry and whine on the forums. Looking at Barb enhancements now, I don't even know what I want to do. They all look good and fun. Even the FvS ones are pretty awesome as long as you're a caster. There's just no good melee FvS tree yet, which is fair since they're pretty lackluster since MotU. But it's mostly about being new and different and making pure builds not quite as appealing as multiclass builds. Also the fact that they might have had to use their free LR+20 to make their character viable again in certain extremely niche situations. Which is all pretty dumb, and multiclass builds being more appealing is good because it leads to more build diversity, pure builds are pretty boring.
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Aug 21, 2013 20:21
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Ravager looks incredibly fun for non-raid stuff. Running around charging into the fray in dungeons and crippling everything by just existing near it. e: Aura of Fear protects the party too. -2 to all ability scores means everything is doing less damage and has lower DCs. Tsurupettan fucked around with this message at 20:30 on Aug 21, 2013 |
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Aug 21, 2013 20:24
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mfny posted:With the changes to character advancement in Shadowfell would it be worth trying this again if I was put off by how awkward/ungainly character advancement/building felt prior to the new expansion ? I have always found the way advancement/building works in DDO realy off putting for some reason and my returns to the game have not lasted all that long for this reason.. Anyone have any thoughts on this or should I just redownload and try this again and see if it "clicks" with the recant changes ?
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Aug 21, 2013 20:44
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Well I get you didn't like character building before, but you're not really clear on why you didn't like it. What was awkward/ungainly? The UI? The mechanics? What part of the mechanics? I mean it's still using the same mechanics at the core. D&D style leveling up, so no mob grinding, not a lot of actual levels, feats, etc. Enhancements got a prettier UI and an overhaul of what each ability does, but it's still the same basic mechanic as before. Epic Destinies give you some good (albeit not unlimited) end game character advance, and added lots of new abilities that are pretty cool, but they're basically Enhancements for Epic Levels mechanically.
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Aug 21, 2013 20:52
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mfny posted:Anyone have any thoughts on this or should I just redownload and try this again and see if it "clicks" with the recant changes ? You seem somewhat open to giving the game another shot, so you should probably try again. It is hard to pinpoint what you didn't like about the game previously, as "character advancement" can come in many different forms. This expansion made huge changes in two fronts, first characters are much more powerful at lower levels, and second there are dozens of new viable builds. If either of those seem like better character advancement, then give it a shot.
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Aug 21, 2013 20:54
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FvS caster looked great, but I couldn't find any motivation to make a melee FvS build anytime. The bard enhancements look super underwhelming too, and they removed a tree so I guess more stuff is planned for them (please please)? I guess I'm glad my bard is a rogue multiclass because there is lots of nice potential there (would a repeater bard be more or less gimpy than an already pretty gimpy twf bard?). And I LOVE the uncoupling feats from a lot of enhancements - notably the necro wizard uncoupling and the dragonmark reduction in feats. Also toughness. So much more room to experiment. The people on the forum were complaining about the enhancements because they looked not this good a while back, and because everyone and their mother had a sorc farming EE content and they didn't want spellpower reductions 
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Aug 21, 2013 21:28
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Paladin is kind of meh too, if you're a tank you get some extra healing amp but hotd feels weaker. No one needs a tank for anything really, FoT almost anyone can tank so the class is kinda bad. Arti is pretty lame too unless you use runearms and cast offensive spells, but melee artis multiclass so not a huge deal as you can just funnel APs into other classes. Also yeah, probably want a decent fort save for the new stuff. Got disintegrated for 533 in one of the quests, it was from a boss that just pikes on a ledge all quest and throws spells at you while you fight waves of trash.
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Aug 21, 2013 22:16
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They would make a killing in the store if they put in an item that bypasses rolling a 1=instafail
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Aug 21, 2013 22:43
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Epic reflexes gives you a second chance when you roll a 1 on a reflex save.
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Aug 21, 2013 23:29
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All the level 27 epic save feats do that, as do most/all of the destiny abilities to boost saves at tier 3.
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Aug 21, 2013 23:35
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DemonMage posted:Well I get you didn't like character building before, but you're not really clear on why you didn't like it. What was awkward/ungainly? The UI? The mechanics? What part of the mechanics? I mean it's still using the same mechanics at the core. D&D style leveling up, so no mob grinding, not a lot of actual levels, feats, etc. Enhancements got a prettier UI and an overhaul of what each ability does, but it's still the same basic mechanic as before. Epic Destinies give you some good (albeit not unlimited) end game character advance, and added lots of new abilities that are pretty cool, but they're basically Enhancements for Epic Levels mechanically. Problem is/was with handling of levelling ability's and a general feeling of awkwardness in leveling mechanics overall and burning out on the initial "old world" (Stormreach)content due to trying and failing to "get" the game so often, ive seen the first few days play of the tutorial and stormreach more times then I can count and id never want to see it again tbh. I did come back for the last expansion and made a Artificer, but just kinda fizzled out.. again due to the already mentioned issues. I did like how I could skip the initial levels and such though with that, and it looks like they are doing the same with these new classes, but seems like id have to put some money down to actuly access them. Going to reinstall anyway, and i think i may have some TP stashed away to get access to those classes.. mfny fucked around with this message at 00:10 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 00:07
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DemonMage posted:All the level 27 epic save feats do that, as do most/all of the destiny abilities to boost saves at tier 3. 
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Aug 22, 2013 00:15
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mfny posted:Going to reinstall anyway, and i think i may have some TP stashed away to get access to those classes.. Try and roll with goons and/or get one of the veteran status things to bypass the early content. I definitely know how you feel in regards to not wanting to play korthos ever again, but doing it with a group can really alleviate some of the tedium.
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Aug 22, 2013 00:25
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Even solo, the second or third run of something is 8000% faster. I remember that end quest in Korthos being a slog my first run through. Don't give up! But yeah grouping is much nicer. At the very least you can laugh at the guy that died in a trap.
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Aug 22, 2013 00:35
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Ugh, why can't Steam update DDO in the background? I wanted to play 15 minutes ago. By the time this poo poo finishes downloading and installing I'll be too tired to play. Edit: Jesus gently caress, why is this taking so long? I can regularly pull down 2 MB/s on BitTorrent so connection speed shouldn't be an issue. What's the point of it even being on Steam? How big is this update, anyway? Monday_ fucked around with this message at 01:52 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 01:12
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MondayHotDog posted:Ugh, why can't Steam update DDO in the background? I wanted to play 15 minutes ago. By the time this poo poo finishes downloading and installing I'll be too tired to play. Do you mean update it while playing another game on steam? Cause if so, you can fix that by pausing and resuming the download in steam after launching the other game. Works on anything through steam.
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Aug 22, 2013 02:05
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So, it seems that I can completely turn my unloved 20 Artificer into ~anything else I want~ courtesy of the +20 LR (though maybe not a tri-class build). I have zero plans on TRing the character and it was going to sit shelved forever, but this is a chance to make it into an alt I could actually bring to do things. I'm not sure what to LR him into, though. He's a 32p Human, so I'm trying to think of some moderate to highly effective characters that don't rely on past lives. I considered sorc/wiz but I'm under the impression I'll need PLs if I want to ever dent EE with him. Or I can just not care about EE on him. I mostly just want a dude around that I can do L20+ content on on the side when I don't feel like playing my TR.
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Aug 22, 2013 05:02
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Wizard is probably your best bet. You don't really need Past Lives to use Shiradi, using DC spells without good gear and past lives can be lovely even in EH, let alone EE however. Pick up Magic Missile and ideally Chain Missile too in Archmage at least, and then get your Pale Master stuff taken care. Though honestly EE isn't that big of a deal anyways, it's nice to be able to build yourself up to take it on, but for the most part the drops are only marginally better than EH, so it's not a huge deal if you just stick to EH.
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Aug 22, 2013 05:18
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Cool, thanks. I was fairly sure my options would be cleric or wizard. Some of my Arti's gear will translate well to Wizard too. How viable is AM these days, out of curiosity? e: vvv Oh yeah I know I'll get from both, I meant the T5s. Thanks. Anoto said I could also go 18/2 wiz/rogue since I won't have tons of spell pen as it is. I might just go pure, however. I can also go Clonk, but I have a Cleric to level anyway. Tsurupettan fucked around with this message at 05:24 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 05:20
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You're not making a choice between AM and Pale Master anymore, you want to get things from both trees. But the Tier 5 Archmage enhancements don't seem worth investing in over the Tier 5 Pale Master enhancements.
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Aug 22, 2013 05:23
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Right, going pure wizard. Wasn't there a list of 'spells you should take because the scrolls are loving obnoxious to get'?
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Aug 22, 2013 05:34
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Rare Scroll List. And yeah pure is probably better, you don't need evasion in EH and even with Insightful Reflexes getting your saves high enough to be no fail(ish) in EE is a huge pain in the rear end. I guess being able to do traps is kind of cool, I have no idea how common they are in the new stuff.
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Aug 22, 2013 05:36
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Thanks, and one last question. I get 5 bonus wizard feats, 1 human and 7 from 1-20. Going to grab emp/max/quick/SF necro/GSF necro with bonuses. I grabbed IR, Heighten and Spell Pens with the other feats I've had available so far. That leaves 4 free feats. How is Mental Toughness these days now that it offers spell crit? And I guess I can pick up regular Toughness too, although it is far less 'required' given the enhancement changes. It is still basically +2 con though. e: Skeletal Knight looks neat but I dunno if it'd be worth the investment compared to everything else available. Animate Ally looks kinda gimmicky but hilariously awesome at the same time. I'm not sure on Cloak of Night since it also reduces my incoming self healing. e2: Okay so I can fill in some of my gear but I have a lot of empty slots and some garbage. Here's what I have: Minos, Torin's Choker, T3 Spyglass, Vorne's Belt, Magewright's Cloak, 6 int ring, 6 str 25% fort ring, L8 robe of shadow. Goggles/gloves/boots/bracers are empty, as well as my offhand, but I guess I can stick my T1 swashbuckler in there for now for the +2 saves. What are some easy to pick up things to fill in those slots, and replace the garbage stuff? I should have some Propulsion Boots on another character for that slot. As for enhancements I'm not sure what to do, there's so many options.  Obviously getting the Necro capstone and the suggested SLAs from Archmage.
Tsurupettan fucked around with this message at 07:00 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 05:49
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This patch has been amazingly good for my (previously) capped Artificer. I'm not sure how the changes impacted other classes as this is really the only class I play with any regularity, but here's what I've lost and gained: Lost - 4 points in UMD (via enhancement, mostly throwaways for progression, can still use lvl 6 scrolls with 100% chance of success) Gained - Ability to run at full speed while charging my Rune Arm An Iron Defender that provides me with 8-11 HP of regen every few seconds, is more durable and overall actually worth summoning Weapon Attachment ability that adds an essentially permanent .5 die to my repeating X-bow damage roll Three extra uses of Endless Fusillade per rest 6 SP cost Maximized/Empowered/Quickened Blast Rod Max HP and SP values stayed pretty much the same. What I lost in force and repair spell power from enhancements is more than made up for with boosts via Spellcraft/Repair skills, points in Arcanotechnician tree, and 8 Universal spell power per Rune Arm charge tier. I was getting a bit bored of the game before but the new content plus the above boosts have me loving my Arty all over again.
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Aug 22, 2013 06:27
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Chuch posted:Ability to run at full speed while charging my Rune Arm  Other than wishing I had a level or two of rogue (umd, crossbow, sneak dice) the pass has been great for artificers, agreed. I can't imagine having an unloved artificer alt (?!? does not compute).edit: V damnit! Noricae fucked around with this message at 12:32 on Aug 22, 2013 |
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Aug 22, 2013 09:20
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Noricae posted:This is seriously the best thing ever. Considering I play a lot of the time with a tempest ranger (who is happy to be ungimped) with barb levels, it was a bit lame chugging wayyy behind him. I think I will need to take a look at the dog enhancements some more because I missed a regen skill! And the new enhancement trees made me wish I was a tincan Oh, right, the regen is technically a repair-over-time which means if you're a fleshie you won't be able to take advantage of it without Construct Essence. The enhancement is Repair Systems in the Arcanotechnician tree.
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Aug 22, 2013 11:48
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Woden posted:Monks might be viable but a 12 fighter/6 monk/2 cleric can be centered with an eSoS, gets kensei crit buffs, ki strikes with eSoS, tactics DCs up the wazoo, cha mod to str, tons of feats, etc. Hmm, I might have to look in to how best to multiclass as a monk then. I did have my heart set on being unarmed, but I guess that's no longer as good as it used to be, or maybe using a weapon as a monk is now just plain better. I just really like the class features of a monk, and I'd be sad at missing out on so many of them, but I suppose as most of them are based around fighting unarmed, if you are using a weapon then you're not exactly going to miss them. I don't even have a regular Sword of Shadow or whatever that weapon is, so an epic one is far beyond me. But, given that the enhancement trees only need you to be level 5 in a class to reach tier 5 (except for core abilities) that certainly does make the options more interesting for what you can do with various classes, and I can definitely see how multiclassing is now far more viable.
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Aug 22, 2013 12:07
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If you're set on unarmed then go for it, just don't discount splashing some other classes is all as there's some delicious low hanging fruit. The centered monk with greatsword and divine might was just to give an idea of the flexibility. I personally can't stand the monk playstyle with the huge amount of different attacks, all taking up valuable clicky/scroll/boost/etc. hotbar space and so love the change. I think, but am not 100% that you can do finishers and stuff while wielding a weapon if you're centered now? Thought I read something about it on the forums.
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Aug 22, 2013 12:33
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I didn't feel monk had THAT many attacks. I mean, poo poo, my Artificer filled nine whole bars. My monk life filled maybe six and a half.
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Aug 22, 2013 14:17
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Looking at the "builds for new players" link, what would you say is an easy and fun first life character? I played very briefly years ago but never made it past level 7. I'd be interested in something that doesn't hit much of a difficulty curve at any level. Do you have to TR twice to get 36pt builds, or just once? If I were to stick with it I think I'd most want to play arcane caster or artificer warforged, if that factors in to past lives.
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Aug 22, 2013 14:27
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I have 18 hotbars up on my juggernaut, had 13 on my rog life and 20 as a clonk. Having to manage too many cooldowns or having too many click to hit type abilities(smite, cleave, momentum swing, etc.) is just too much for my aging brain. Warforged arti is pretty great, repeaters tear things up fast until med levels and then to keep damage up in later levels you need to learn how to mix in rune arm and spells. If you don't you can still get by fine though, things will just take a little longer. There's almost no spell point management to learn either so you can blow almost all of it on buffs and heals if you want to, I think they're a great starter class. You need to TR twice to get 36 point builds, once only gets you 34.
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Aug 22, 2013 15:18
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