Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Gammon posted:

The Swashbuckler build I'm using is definitely not as solo friendly as some other lives I've done, but if you get a group together it provides a lot of nice buffs and it's got some pretty sweet DPS to go along with it. Solo, not so hot at the moment though (this will probably change dramatically at 20).

I was also looking at burning my LR token to change to a Shuriken throwing build, but my inability to get Dex to Damage as a Shadar Kai really hurts the concept. Also, as the Monk's Ninja Spy enhancement stacks with the Shuriken Expertise feat (not to mention being able to get 10 Thousand Stars, and Manyshot not working with Thrown weapons) it renders any build that tries to throw without those feats/enhancement combos poo poo by comparison. Also, I tested it (using another character, so no tomes but still, good enough for testing with) and it was not great. I also took Manyshot, not realising it didn't work.

So, the lessons:

1. Regular Swashbuckling is cool on paper, and not so bad in practice, but the heroic levels will suck without augmenting your self-healing in some way if you solo a lot. Until you can Blitz, better off sticking with a group but that's ok because the Warchanter buffs make everyone happy.
2. Don't even think about being a throwing Swashbuckler. It's terrible.

Odd, are you specifically meaning a throwing only Swashbuckler build? That would suck.

I TRed my 2 life paladin into a Swashbuckler and have been having very little issues. This is by far the easiest I've even done VON3, Restless Isles or Proof is in the Poison, didn't even bother using a henchmen. The only thing that gave me trouble was, of all things Shadow Crypt when I didn't respect the vampire's clones (and dispels) enough.

Used a Sky Pirate's dagger or Tiefling Assassin's Blade from 4-12, and a Shadowstar for my throwing weapon. Level 8 CC Swashbuckler shield. Drow, all dex.

Actually to be serious, this is probably the most broken class I've ever played for leveling up since I tried a sorcerer.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007
I did pure 20 bard, dex high, dark elf and murdered everything I saw. Human would be good too, I did like shruiken expertise with all that dex.

Unless you absolutely have to do traps, it's better to go full 20 and get evasion from capstone.

As far as shield goes, a crystal cove swashbuckler (or anything with the guard breaking ability) is flat out broken for bards. The En Point skill with guard breaking can daze everything in front of you.

The only melee I played that felt as nuts as that bard was a vanguard pally (pre holy weapon nerf, TRed before that, so not sure now). Vanguard did more damage but didn't have Coup de grace.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Elswyyr posted:

Welp, I think it's about time for my yearly return to this game, followed by quitting for unknown reasons. How's Artificer nowadays?

They're called 'rogues' now since the Mechanic tree got some amazing buffs and the Battle Engineer tree is stale.
(Great crossbow > heavy repeater in the hands of a mechanic IMHO)

I just did a 8 rogue / 12 artificer quick 20 TR to get that life out of the way and the 12 artificer levels were basically meaningless.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

DemonMage posted:

What was your feat layout for that? I need to get an Artificer life done sometime here in the near future and while I don't think it'd be terrible to play, I pretty much just want to get it done.

Human (extra feat unneeded, because of artificer freebies)

1st Point Blank, Precise Shot
2nd Rapid Reload - artificer
3rd Rapid Shot
6th Precision
9th Past Life Barbarian
12th Lesser Dragonmark of Passage, Improved Crit - arti
15th Quicken I think, I just like fast buffs
16th Improved Precise Shot - artificer
18th Toughness
20th something else random from arti freebie

Something around 40 points in mechanic tree, KTA/Int-Hit from Harper tree, Dim Door from human, and the rest was thrown here and there.

6 rogue gets you INT/Damage so you don't need to bother with arti buffs.

300 point raw crits on a great crossbow, +12 sneak dice using great crossbow at 12th level.

Seeing that I made a greensteel radiant great xbow and never looked back. Up until then I used heavy repeaters mostly (wounding/bleeding or holy/undead bane)

After TRing I'm doing a pure rogue build and am seeing 600 point raw crits from the x4 boost at 18th level, and ~18 sneak dice with a great xbow. Heavy repeaters would be 3x crits, but would crit less and lose at least 8 sneak dice.
This will be my cleric life, I have one of those +20 lesser hearts from way back that's been collecting dust.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Rookersh posted:

So according to the wiki, I should be able to grab Haste/Slow/Displacement at Bard l3. However according to the character planner I'm messing around with, even with Bard 3, I can only choose Level 1 Spells.

So which is it in game?

Not sure what you are looking at, but you don't get 3rd level spells as a bard until 7th level.

Don't bother with Slow, you want Haste/Displacement. (And at 8th level I'd take Good Hope, it gets eclipsed later but is a long term buff at that level)

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Rookersh posted:

Yeah, realized that after fiddling around with the editor a bit.

Kind of curious how I want to build this guy now.

I appreciate all the people saying Paladin, but honestly it sounds like it's more then a little flavor of the month due to some recent buffs. I'd rather not suddenly make a Paladin, only for it to lose everything that made it "great" by the time I'm doing endgame stuff.


Paladin was FOTM a few months ago, it's been nerfed already.
Barbarian is sorta the current FOTM, though a Mechanic rogue is nuts as well.

For bard it's simple, 20 levels (or 2 rogue if you must, but 20 bard = evasion as well), choose DEX or CHA, go all in on that stat. Find a nice light weapon and then murder everything. (If you chose DEX, Dark Elf is fun for the built in shruiken expertise) I did DEX, you could also do INT using harper but that'd cost precious enhancement points.

All you need really is Single Weapon Fighting, Precision, (Finesse if DEX) and eventually Improved Crit in your choice of murder tool.

The fighter levels are almost meaningless, they would weaken what you get from the bard side.

If you have a Tiefling Assassin's Blade you'll probably use that from 4th level to the teens, due to the way Swashbuckler works with weapons that have modified crits.

If you have a Crystal Cove Swashbuckler shield (absolutely broken for this build), go buckler, otherwise empty handed is fine.

You may think you'll be dipping into racial enhancements, but you'll find you put nothing in there as you will go mostly Swashbuckler, a quite a bit into Warchanter and the rest into Spellsinger.

Kalas fucked around with this message at 04:07 on Jun 13, 2015

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Fenris13 posted:

Wait, have you guys also been running a pure warlock burst build? i thought I was the only one crazy enough to think that was a good idea.

20 Warlock was the most broken thing I've ever seen.

I hit 3k HPs at one point.
Who cares if it's mostly temp HPs, they come back so quickly it's almost impossible to die.

I almost soloed DQ on EE. I'm pretty sure I could have pulled it off with a better Epic Twist arrangement.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

DemonMage posted:

Well experience potions work on destinies since they get the same amount of experience as your main experience bar does. Combine that with the daily first completion bonus and they're not that bad to level really. It's just frustrating when you want/need to level one of the really bad ones, or something that literally does nothing for your build (Dreadnaught as a wizard hooray).

In theory UMD tomes can drop in game, tomes are a hell of a lot more rare than they used to be and there's so many skill tomes that seeing a UMD tome would be difficult. I can't find concrete information if UMD is explicitly excluded, but I doubt it. It's probably just the rarest of all skill tome drops.

Iconic TRing:
  • You don't have to do the dumb sewer quests you've done a million times
  • Almost all of the really good low level quests (House P!) have higher level versions that you can do while leveling
  • You get to take advantage of all the good raid gear, including epic/legendary ones
  • You get to play with those destinies you leveled, using all the cool destiny abilities which makes builds more fun
  • 99% of the post-MotU quests are pretty awesome, so you get to play the better quests in the game
  • You get two past lives (iconic + regular) every run, there's 12 iconic past lives total (3x each of the 4), there's 14 classes, so you can do it with very little overlap
  • 20-30 has no higher experience requirement for TRing, it's the same for everyone
  • Since you start 15, you can do level 13+ quests for bravery streak, you can easily hit 20 without repeating or even doing all of the available quests (you could even stop leveling at 14 and do 12s if you want for some reason)

Honestly I think almost everything from MOTU on quest wise has been pretty garbage. Far fewer interesting puzzles, they balance difficulty with 'rooms full of monsters'.
Some of the old dungeons they reworked for epic content were good, but almost everything FR is trash. (Study in Sable I did enjoy)

You also get 2 past lives, TR and ETR doing 1-30 non-iconic. Iconic just skips the 1-15, but honestly this isn't a big deal.
The value of this comes down to if you need Epic past lives or not.

I did do a morning lord elf spending the +1 lesser tome to play a laser Favored soul and that was a lot of fun.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Noricae posted:


Re: Iconics, oh geez. I finally made a Morninglord cleric for some challenges, using the default path and build and promptly deleted her after running around for a half hour. They must do this intentionally to make players of all build-making skills feel better about the builds they make, right?!

The proper way to do this is eat a +1 lesser heart and go full Favored Soul Laser Elf.
20 levels of FVS gives you an amazing light nuke SLA.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Fog Tripper posted:

Feel I need something new. Downloading this.

That said I haven't played D&D since P&P days (unless counting NWN) about 20-30 years ago. No idea about these new fangled simplified rules, but hey it's free (Who am I kidding, I will be tossing cash at it)

It's a technically 'free to play' but yeah, the monthly VIP subscription is basically required.

That being said, it's a hell of a lot of fun game for at least awhile. It has a burnout stage, but there is an insane amount of content in this game to get through before you feel like you've done everything.

In the beginning don't feel pressured trying Elite mode, you will get destroyed until you have the gear and knowledge on how to deal with the very-not-PNP damage getting thrown at you.

If you go VIP, I'd recommend trying Druid as a starting character. They are very self contained but can do decent damage and you have a ton of options on how to play.
A mechanic thief is another good starting character as you can deal with the traps you will find and kill from range, but until you get a lot of gear to boost your skills you will never see the Elite mode ones.

Seriously, any class works but having built in heals without relying on a Henchmen's dumb AI means a lot.

I'd check out the wiki on feats, there's some important changes here and there.
Since the game uses a spell point system instead of X spells a day, it makes Metamagic interesting. Any class that uses Spell-Like-Abilities can stack all the metamagic they want on those skills without increasing the mana cost. This is vital for efficiency.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

xZAOx posted:

numbers

2. As a new player, soloing ELT will be beyond you. As long as you don't have a mindset that insists on only doing things the hardest way you'll be find on Normal or Hard modes.

3. There's an excellent grouping system, you can post your group to the public and fill it assuming there's players in the range interested. Note, you may have problems getting people to join easy mode, see #2. There's reasons for that.

4. It varies, for spellcasters yes that is normal. Other classes can do with fewer. I actually have 9-12 frickin bars set up, but I have a LOT of magic items and scrolls and potions I keep handy.

5. There's tons of hidden poo poo in dungeons, secret doors you may not see without a spot skill / truesight / etc. There's a VAST amount of content, and some open overworld zones (still instanced) with lots of nooks and crannies to explore.

6. Yes, though honestly VIP is the only sane way to go. Then you don't need to buy any.

8. If you have a single knowledgeable player in the group with a dozen past lives in their belt tanking will not be a thing till Epic levels.
Stuff will simply die too fast. Mostly new players just need to learn how to Not Die. No one will complain about your kill count/contribution if you make sure to tell people you are new.

9. Rogue/Ranger is a crazy good starting combo. 6 levels of each (rogue first), get a repeater and great crossbow and shoot things from long range. You'll have both stealth and skills to keep you alive.
Druid is absolutely solid for a new player, as a nuker though. Cleric/Favored Soul is fine too. A blaster sorcerer is another good starter, though you will have mana issues until you learn how to maximize (pun intended) killing clusters of mobs. For casters it's all about Spell Like Abilities to be mana efficient.

One important thing to note about this game is, missile weapons have practically unlimited range. You can spot a critter, back off and shoot from outside the graphic draw range.
This is why I suggest one for a starting class, it gives you a lot of time to think when you start fights. You can often split apart or wipe out packs of mobs before they ever reach you.

PS when you meet your first beholder, don't feel bad with what happens. In fact post about it.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

xZAOx posted:

Been playing for a couple of hours of my new paladin following that Vanguard guide. Had a few round 2 questions if anyone is inclined to oblige :)

1. I have no idea what to loot. Basically I'm just taking longswords, armor I'm going for whatever is heaviest (as in, medium over light) and whatever has the best AC bonus. There's a lot of rewards that I have chose that give random bonus to various skills. Usually there I just guess and try to go with whatever is something I've put points into.

2. I'm on Korthos Island now. So the way these things work, is I can do these (Slayer / Rares / Explorer) over multiple play sessions as I'm doing other quest lines, right? It's not expected that I blow through these immediately, right?

3. Any reason why "/who" doesn't seem to work for me? I was trying to see if someone in the guild was on for an invite (Brumans is my character).

4. Using skills seems...odd? As long as I'm facing it and near it and hit it, it worked, right? Like my stun or sunder armor or trip.

You will quickly outgrow Korthos, it's basically there to show you the mechanics.

Slayers / Rares / Explorers are saved and you can keep going back, but exploration zones do have level ranges, and once you go far outside the range there's a major XP hit.
Don't worry about maxing everything there, it would be too grindy to hit the goals of each exploration zone all the time. If you like a place though, clear it.

There are some exceptions though. Once you get to the fairly low level Three Barrel Cove by the way, FARM the rares. There's multiple extremely nice drops. Weapons with modified dice or crit ranges and nice effects. Some decent armor as well.

DDO is a marathon. You will collect gear that looks nice but is not useful to your current character. Keep named items until you know what you can get rid of. DDO is all about Reincarnating characters to start over again, and take advantage of sweet loot you didn't need on a different class.

By the way, as a paladin in heavy armor, keep an eye out for Physical and Magical Resistance gear and talents. This will give you a flat % off the appropriate damage types. Don't be afraid to sword and board it. Two handers are fun, and have some unique mechanics in DDO vs PnP D&D, but shields give a lot of PRR/MRR and can trivialize fights. You can even build around a shield and stay offensive.

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Ghost of Starman posted:

Trying this out as F2P right now; I'm pretty interested in the late-game theorycrafting and variety of builds, but I'm at the end of the intro island's quests and the basic gameplay's already starting to lose its luslter. (Made a warpriest Cleric to start and she pretty much blends through everything and can't die, so maybe I made it too easy...). Does it pick up soon, or is there a way to power through the lower levels efficiently, or maybe a different build to try that involves a little more than "stand still and wave sword until everything stops moving"?

(also blargh please tell me the armors eventually look better than literally just a "plate mail" texture on my character model)

Playing DDO as true F2P should be considered a warcrime, or a crime against nature at least.
VIP subscription adds so much the game it is a shell of itself without.
Initial runs on quests at a harder difficulty is one of the perks, what you are seeing right now is baby mode. Elite on a level 4 quest can hit have traps that will hit for 100+ damage.

Melee combat without at least a few special feats like Cleave or class specific perks like Smite or the zillion attacks monks get is lackluster.
If you want to see what melee is really like try a rogue and ambush stuff or try a monk and be ready to press every button on your hotbar.
Bard swashbucklers are an absolute joy to play and can do amazing things.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Kalas
Jul 27, 2007

Ghost of Starman posted:

Is it not feasible to grind up the DDO points to unlock most of the things VIP gives you? Part of what got me to try F2P in the first place was the suggestion that you could do that - something about making characters on different servers and grinding up favor. I'm guessing the "access Hard mode right away" benefit is subscription-only, but eh.

If you are on a super fixed income/student I can see this as being something to enjoy understanding you're gated behind a vast majority of the game for the long term, if your personal time has any value at all this would be a very painful way to play the game.

Note, you won't be able to group with people on the majority of the quests since you won't have access to the adventure packs until you unlock them if you're going F2P.

This is one of those 'it's F2P, technically' games. I started my account and went VIP after getting off Korthos island and realized I was going to be on a fairly narrow quest path unless I got the adventure packs or went VIP. This was quite some time ago though, and they do add free content here and there.

All that being said, you can probably do a full first life as F2P without too much hassle, though not getting Elite streak XP is sorta painful. If you group with people that are okay only doing the free quests, they can open Elite for you.

Very few games do DDO's action combat properly. Tera/Wildstar/BDO are the only thing that really come close and none of those games lasted more then a month for me, and here I am doing DDO in binge phases 5+ years. I don't begrudge Turbine the 10-15$ a month subscription at all.

  • Locked thread