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Well I think, although it's not made clear, that after the baptism he floats down the long hallway. I didn't do a good job of showing it but if you look behind the preacher there's a long tunnel to where the water flows and a bright glimmering exit at the end. I would imagine when entering Columbia you are washed of your sins and then left to float on down the river, so to speak, until you spill out unto the face of the founding fathers.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 08:26 |
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# ? May 5, 2024 03:07 |
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Sundowner posted:
I think a lot of "we're going to give you clues from the start that you have no idea are clues because we're not going 'mwahaha' after saying them" games (for example 999 and Virtue's Last Reward) have this effect when LP'd. When you're playing the game you move from scene to scene without any time to stop and reflect, while LPs go in chunks so you have a lot less to digest at a time (or in the case of screenshot LPs, things which were onscreen for a second get plenty of time sticking around to be noticed). There's also a lot more eyes on any given part of the story than when one person's playing. When I played it myself I had to rely on dreams to figure things out, when playing I was just too caught up in the top-level of figuring out how to kill whatever was in my way.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 08:46 |
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Sundowner posted:Well I think, although it's not made clear, that after the baptism he floats down the long hallway. I didn't do a good job of showing it but if you look behind the preacher there's a long tunnel to where the water flows and a bright glimmering exit at the end. I would imagine when entering Columbia you are washed of your sins and then left to float on down the river, so to speak, until you spill out unto the face of the founding fathers. Well hell, there goes another one. I suppose I did describe these theories as wildly unsupported. Still, now we know. Here are my reactions to the second video.
GenHavoc fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Aug 26, 2013 |
# ? Aug 26, 2013 10:49 |
GenHavoc, in sincerity, your speculation and theories are great, please continue to do them. I'm going to decline from discussing'em with you as I've played through Infinite before and I don't want to confirm or deny anything.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 11:25 |
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Hang on, wasn't the 'Blue Ribbon' movement a prohibition group back in the day? If so, a good name for a bar. Edit - Also, the comments on acting for the womenfolk to stop the false shepherd are almost word-for-word some of the propaganda used by the Confederacy for keeping black Americans as slaves. Samovar fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Aug 26, 2013 |
# ? Aug 26, 2013 12:01 |
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Now this thread is just waiting on the edge of their seats to see what of Gen's theories are true and which aren't. I'm a little taken back by some of the things you've come up with so far. We'll see how much of it is true and how much is false soon enough.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 12:03 |
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This is a game that definitely merits an LP, because it puts a huge amount of interesting discussion material on the table, even if I sometimes felt like it doesn't quite know what its trying to say about it. But then, that's always been the case with the -Shock games, and its what I feel separates them from the Deus Ex series , which they're otherwise quite similar to(aside from their steadily declining RPG elements). To expand on that, the Deus Ex games tend to include several strong perspectives on its core issues, all putting forth their arguments before asking you to choose which you believe to be the best one at the end. The -Shock games in contrast use the whole debate as set dressing, making the player an outsider with no stake in the world or its politics beyond "they all basically want me dead". You might form opinions, but your character is always solely out for themselves and any alliances are about convenience rather than sympathy. Its a result of a more linear approach to storytelling, which is kind of required by its design. Where Deus Ex is about being offered multiple solutions to every situation, the -Shocks tend to give you problems with only one solution - typically resulting in one of the aforementioned alliances of convenience or at least bunch of fetch quests. It's about reinforcing a sense of desperation and making compromises to survive, as opposed being expressing your character. So I guess what I'm really trying to say here is that their settings are often a lot more interesting than the game itself is prepared to deal with, which is very much my way of praising them with faint damnation. Still, the approach has proved a bit controversial at times, but I can't really say more in the context of Infinite without going into spoiler territory. For an idea, just note how hamfisted the "save or harvest little sisters" mechanic in the original Bioshocks was. The game tried to portray it as having to do horrible things in difficult circumstances (making compromises to survive) but there was really no major loss to saving them all, and no incentive to switch between saving or harvesting over the course of a playthrough. In fact if you did switch then by the time you got to the end you'd find out that it only takes one harvest to get the bad ending because you're still a child killing monster and what did you think would happen? Ulvirich posted:GenHavoc, in sincerity, your speculation and theories are great, please continue to do them. I'm going to decline from discussing'em with you as I've played through Infinite before and I don't want to confirm or deny anything. I can only agree. I didn't know nearly as much about history to have half these theories when I played, so its impressive just how much he's been able to come up with based on knowledge of the setting, or at least its inspirations. Even though I've played the game to completion they're still quite enjoyable to read either to highlight foreshadowing I missed in the case of accurate guesses or to imagine the possibilities at the incorrect ones. Obviously though, I won't say how many, if any are correct or incorrect either, I'm only even mentioning that some are accurate because they were directly confirmed in the videos.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 12:12 |
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I loved Binfinite when I played it, and have been meaning to give it a replay. Rewatching the opening and spotting all the little things I missed the first time is interesting- the easy-to-miss little scene with the telescope made me laugh. "God Only Knows"- is a great scene for several reasons- it's a lovely song, the lyrics are meaningful in the context of the story, and the anachronism subtly hints that Columbia is even weirder than it first seems.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 12:25 |
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GenHavoc posted:Okay, the second barker refers overtly to the Vox Populi spreading "dissent" and "lies", which means my theory as to a competing political or religious organization (possibly both) is probably correct. So what is their philosophy then? Is the name Vox Populi one they use, or one that was given to them? My assumption is the former, as it sounds like something a bunch of populist rebels would adopt. What agenda do they have then? My guess would be Atheism, Socialism, Anarchism, or some combination of the three, as they would both be appropriate for the period. I expect we'll find out. Considering that Vox Populi means "voice of the people," I highly doubt that Comstock and the rest of his heierarchy would name a Rebel group something with such a powerful meaning behind it. If Comstock's cult is an extension of American Exceptionalism to the point of religious fervor, then the Vox likely refutes Comstock's status as a Prophet. We've already seen some individuals who are quietly discontented with how Columbia has been going about its business as a 'promised land,' so I'd guess that the Vox are taking that discontent to a more violent or dramatic extreme. quote:Booker records himself saying "What's a Voxophone" on a Voxophone. I wonder if that will come back at any point? It did, about 2 seconds later. Edit: As fun as the Fireman being a possible reference to Farenheit 451 might be, I really question the risk-reward ratio of having someone who can and will indiscriminately burn entire blocks of your city in search of a single man. Green Intern fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Aug 26, 2013 |
# ? Aug 26, 2013 12:49 |
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GenHavoc posted:[*]Very strong. This Comstock guy even looks kind of like Joseph Smith. But for analysis: Comstock was the name of the silver lode in Colorado that was discovered in 1859, the one that George Hearst and the Bonanza Kings used to make their fortunes. It's also the name of a lot of other stuff, but that's the first thing that comes to mind. The Comstock lode was the biggest mining strike since the California Gold Rush, and helped sustain the western drive of American Expansion. I know from the rest of the thread that such themes are involved in this game, so perhaps this is a reference of import. I really, really like your posts but I can answer this one without spoiling anything: Comstock is almost certainly named after Anthony Comstock, a late 19th/early 20th century political figure who was extremely religious and extremely pro-censorship. Edit - Though I should note that Anthony Comstock was way more about anti-sex stuff that any sort of race stuff. The Comstock laws are named after him and boy are they a hoot and a half. CuwiKhons fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Aug 26, 2013 |
# ? Aug 26, 2013 13:14 |
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Oh boy, a Bioshock Infinite LP! I really need to replay this at some point; I didn't do nearly enough personal thinking about the game, mostly because I'm not a very deep thinker, but also somewhat with how I experienced the game - playing a friend's copy at his place while he watched. Basically, my suspension of disbelief broke at about 23:55 to 24:05. in the first video - you see Sundowner taking a medkit on a counter, but you can also interact with the cake beside the kit. Doing so makes you eat the cake in one bite. Along with the candles and the stand its on. Once that happened, the game ceased to be Bioshock Infinite for me and turned into Booker's Big Air Adventure!
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 13:44 |
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GenHavoc posted:There's... no connection? But I was so sure...
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 14:05 |
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Deleuzionist posted:It's actually one of the things that should be counted in favour of Infinite that it doesn't touch the mess that is the Bioshock 2 plot at all. While B2's combat was in every way superior to the first game the plot was like a squealing wet fart passed just after a symphony has finished playing. I wouldn't put it that way. From what I've seen in Brainamp's LP, it had quite a few good ideas, it was just really hamfisted about the delivery.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 14:14 |
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Okay now I have to read the thread just for GenHavoc's posts.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 14:35 |
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ZenVulgarity posted:Okay now I have to read the thread just for GenHavoc's posts. All I can think of when reading these is the bit in Psychonauts where you turn on the psycho vision thing in Boyd's house and suddenly all the lines and theories and weird scrawlings on the wall appear. Do more please GenHavoc! Anyways, looking forward to this LP Sundowner, it goes without saying your mission is to eat everything in sight and drink all available beverages. I played through most of it at a friend's and then he took over to do the rest (mostly because I was so tired of the combat) so I'm interested to see how you show off all the Vigor combos someone already mentioned as me + friend only used one or two because frankly, that's all we needed.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 14:58 |
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GenHavoc posted:[*]Okay, this has nothing to do with the plot, but I'll say this, the music in that underground, water-covered temple-church-cathedral-whatever is hauntingly beautiful. I don't think I've ever seen anything like this landing (the scripture and whatnot) in any game before. To return to the plot, we're barely a minute in, and I'm getting a very strong Church-of-Latter-Day-Saints vibe from this whole thing. Like we're entering some kind of Mormon Tabernacle. I'm really loving your posts and hope you continue with them, GenHavoc, but since no one's mentioned this yet, that hymn is Will The Circle Be Unbroken, one of my favorite hymns ever. It is beautiful, as you've said, and really fits the mood of the Welcome Area. That hymn was also heavily featured in the advertising of this game, and why not, when its chorus is just so perfect? Will the circle be unbroken By and by, by and by? Is a better home awaiting In the sky, in the sky? Same with "Goodnight, Irene;" I'm a real sucker for period music done well, and the soundtrack to this game, as I've said, is phenomenal. (Er, by the way, be careful about searching for that song in relation to Infinite, as it may spoil you as to future events. There are a number of versions that have nothing to do with this game that are awesome. Do you like Johnny Cash? He did one.)
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 15:17 |
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This game sure is pretty, but at some point between the announcement and release I guess I just lost interest. I am excited to see what comes next. Good job so far Sundowner, I like the pace you're taking and the fact that you don't expand on a bunch of stuff before the game does.GenHavoc posted:Crazy Just one note, the telegram we got was from Lutece, but we don't know which Lutece, do we? For all we know there's a big ol' mess of Luteces.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 15:54 |
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Thanks dudes. I appreciate being told I'm actually doing the game good (so far) and not loving it up royally. And yes, be careful when searching up some of the music or things people mention as there tends to always be some buffoon who nonchalantly discusses things from the late game or ending without considering that others may not have played the game. Oh and also related videos on YouTube can be a problem, too. I'd even go as far as to say don't look up any of the music of this game because there are some pretty cool pieces that you may not expect that really could only have been special in the context of the game.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 16:27 |
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The gameplay looks so dated but everything else looks great. Why go through the trouble of making this new amazing setting if you're going to have the main character still hunt through garbage for snacks while killing an army of screaming people? getting bored murdering people is bad for immersion.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 17:44 |
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GenHavoc posted:Words Galore.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 18:38 |
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How much of this game is loving over racists? My interest in this game hinges on my ability to kill whitey. I really do wish you could have beanballed the guy at the raffle, though.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 18:41 |
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22 Eargesplitten posted:How much of this game is loving over racists? My interest in this game hinges on my ability to kill whitey. I have heard from a couple reviews that one issue with the moral choices in the game is that lots of them don't really matter and are just an "am I an rear end in a top hat" test. Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 26, 2013 |
# ? Aug 26, 2013 18:48 |
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Real hurthling! posted:Stuff This is sort of spoilery - you may want to redact/delete that.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 18:56 |
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Speculation based on the thread title: Since Quantum is almost exclusively used in Science Fiction for describing: A) Power sources B) Time travel C) Parallel universes I'm going to bet that there's a super-high-tech energy source that keeps the city afloat and it is somehow connected to time travel of the "travel to a parallel universe's past, not your own" sort.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 18:57 |
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I've been thinking about how often I want to post updates. I certainly won't be doing more than two a week but just because the thread has started off good and there's a lot of speculation and chit chat about the opening hour, I figure putting up another update might be good but in general I'll probably only post one update a week, two at a stretch. I just recently started a new college course (maybe one day I'll make a game as good as BioShock Infinite vv) and I don't want to distract my self too much. Thankfully in Scotland "full time" College is only 3 days week but I have a stupid day-on-day-off schedule right now that means I don't have a long stretch of free time at any point in the week to work on videos. Seeing as tomorrow is one of those days off, I may post an update. Edit: I was just thinking that "Quantum Racism" might have also been a funny title, now that I think about it. Sundowner fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Aug 26, 2013 |
# ? Aug 26, 2013 19:03 |
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Sundowner posted:Edit: I was just thinking that "Quantum Racism" might have also been a funny title, now that I think about it. Schrodinger's Coin Flips
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 19:45 |
Schrödinger's Quantum Rubbish Can Sandwiches. What I really did like in this game, which is a few updates away probably, is how they showed WHERE Columbia gets resources for sustaining such a high quality of life. It's a pretty rad game world they developed. Ulvirich fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Aug 26, 2013 |
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 20:13 |
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Where things started feeling silly to me was when I pulled a cup of steaming hot coffee out of the trash and drank it.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 20:14 |
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Look, man, slaughtering veritable swarms of sky-racists takes a lot out of you. Booker needs his coffee and trash-cakes.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 20:16 |
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1stGear posted:Schrodinger's Coin Flips Did anyone catch Comstock talking about Schrodinger's Baptism?
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 20:23 |
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1stGear posted:Schrodinger's Coin Flips Schrodinger's Zybourne Clock, more like. I mean, hell even the spoilers* thread in the main Games forum references it. *(Which you should not look up)
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 20:26 |
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Bruceski posted:Where things started feeling silly to me was when I pulled a cup of steaming hot coffee out of the trash and drank it. Sundowner eating some cereal in the middle of a firefight put a smile on my face. I know it's just 'healing item #17' but the image of just munching on a whole pack of corn flakes is too good.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 20:35 |
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Barf Wight posted:Sundowner eating some cereal in the middle of a firefight put a smile on my face. I know it's just 'healing item #17' but the image of just munching on a whole pack of corn flakes is too good. It's like the scene from Scarface with the pile of cocaine, except this time it's Cinnamon Toast Crunch
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 20:36 |
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Bruceski posted:Where things started feeling silly to me was when I pulled a cup of steaming hot coffee out of the trash and drank it. Subject Delta in Bioshock 2 spent the entire game eating random stuff from the floor and he didn't even have a mouth, due to being a Big Daddy, so I assume he just absorbed the food through his suit or something.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 22:07 |
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Judge Tesla posted:Subject Delta in Bioshock 2 spent the entire game eating random stuff from the floor and he didn't even have a mouth, due to being a Big Daddy, so I assume he just absorbed the food through his suit or something. Alpha Daddies weren't fused with their armor, so he probably removed his helmet to eat or something.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 22:09 |
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I loved the first two updates! I have seen a few runs of the game's opening in a "let's try" context and am excited to see if the rest of the game can stand up to the impressive beginning. I get the feeling Infinite will continue the tradition of me and Bioshock games where I appreciate them loads more as LPs than as games I have to play. The fun is almost all in the stories and the pretty environments, as far as I am concerned.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 22:26 |
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legendsuper posted:Alpha Daddies weren't fused with their armor, so he probably removed his helmet to eat or something. Nah, the helmet never came off. He just smeared it all over his visor and let the placebo effect do its job.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 22:26 |
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Thanks guys, I'm glad these rambling posts of mine are of value to someone. I'm truly just throwing down any considerations I can think of, and I feel certain I've already missed several things. I didn't notice anything strange about the telescope scene, for instance...Green Intern posted:Considering that Vox Populi means "voice of the people," I highly doubt that Comstock and the rest of his heierarchy would name a Rebel group something with such a powerful meaning behind it. If Comstock's cult is an extension of American Exceptionalism to the point of religious fervor, then the Vox likely refutes Comstock's status as a Prophet. We've already seen some individuals who are quietly discontented with how Columbia has been going about its business as a 'promised land,' so I'd guess that the Vox are taking that discontent to a more violent or dramatic extreme. The abolitionist (I'm guessing that's what he is) in the building with all the emancipation flyers is complaining to his wife about how violence was not yet certain, which sounds a lot to me like violence has already begun. Given the reaction that Columbia's police force has to you when you are discovered, I'm feeling safe in assuming that they started it, but it's entirely possible the Vox have initiated some form of terrorist resistance to the rule of Comstock. CuwiKhons posted:I really, really like your posts but I can answer this one without spoiling anything: Comstock is almost certainly named after Anthony Comstock, a late 19th/early 20th century political figure who was extremely religious and extremely pro-censorship. Well crap, my history has failed me, as I honestly never heard of Anthony Comstock before now. I have however heard of his organization, the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice, a semi-paramilitary organization that was empowered to make arrests and levy fines for those in violation of obscenity laws that they effectively made up. I wasn't aware that they extended into racism, but it wouldn't surprise me. Deleuzionist posted:It's actually one of the things that should be counted in favour of Infinite that it doesn't touch the mess that is the Bioshock 2 plot at all. While B2's combat was in every way superior to the first game the plot was like a squealing wet fart passed just after a symphony has finished playing. I really thought Bioshock 2 was interesting, albeit very poorly handled, but even if the game were useless, to pretend it never happened and then happily re-use the same imagery (the Lamb) seems like a major oversight. Yes, the Lamb is a major emblem of Christian iconography, but it featured so heavily in the game immediately before this one that to deny all connection is just puzzling to me. Even a throwaway acknowledgment would be better than pretending it didn't happen. resurgam40 posted:I'm really loving your posts and hope you continue with them, GenHavoc, but since no one's mentioned this yet, that hymn is Will The Circle Be Unbroken, one of my favorite hymns ever. It is beautiful, as you've said, and really fits the mood of the Welcome Area. That hymn was also heavily featured in the advertising of this game, and why not, when its chorus is just so perfect? I didn't have time in my rambling posts to go into it, but that's one of the most amazing openers I've ever seen, between the elevator passing through the scriptural verses illuminated by the sun, to the haunting sound of the choral hymn gradually appearing through the background sound, to the general appearance of the temple itself, to the first words Booker exchanges with a denizen of Columbia, ones that appear much more portentous now that we've seen more of the society. "Where am I?" "Heaven. Or nearest we'll get to it till judgment day." The circle unbroken in the sky indeed. Ardryn posted:I'm surprised you didn't comment on how the picture with Lincoln in it was partially covered by that heavy curtain. Although it makes it seem that Lincoln wouldn't be as popular as the "three saints" because of the Emancipation Proclamation, that also raises the question as to why Comstock is in the drawing. Is it simply, Comstock is great and received inspiration from all the great presidents, or is it supposed to be Comstock judging Lincoln for "raising Blacks above their station." Dammit, I completely missed the implications of this, as I couldn't decide what it meant for Comstock to be watching Lincoln. In retrospect, it seems obvious that it's intended to represent disapproval of Lincoln's actions, but then why make the picture at all? Then again, wasn't it hanging in the house of the abolitionists? If so, the curtain might well have been to hide it from the authorities, as though Lincoln were some kind of underground saint. The equivelant of having a Chairman Mao poster on the wall in Pinochet's Chile. The sort of thing one might wish to hide.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 22:48 |
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Judge Tesla posted:Subject Delta in Bioshock 2 spent the entire game eating random stuff from the floor and he didn't even have a mouth, due to being a Big Daddy, so I assume he just absorbed the food through his suit or something. He definitely had various intake ports. He's cramming cake into his feed-tube.
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 23:06 |
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# ? May 5, 2024 03:07 |
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Green Intern posted:He definitely had various intake ports. He's cramming cake into his feed-tube. Subject Delta: the proto-goon
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# ? Aug 26, 2013 23:08 |