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Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare
Well I think, although it's not made clear, that after the baptism he floats down the long hallway. I didn't do a good job of showing it but if you look behind the preacher there's a long tunnel to where the water flows and a bright glimmering exit at the end. I would imagine when entering Columbia you are washed of your sins and then left to float on down the river, so to speak, until you spill out unto the face of the founding fathers.

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Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Sundowner posted:


Edit: Although GenHavoc's post is great, I'm surprised this much could be drawn and speculated upon from the opening hour but I guess that's also why the opening sequence is so great. When I first played I was so caught up in the experience of exploring Columbia that I didn't even have time to think about it until a little later in to the game where things started to click.

I think a lot of "we're going to give you clues from the start that you have no idea are clues because we're not going 'mwahaha' after saying them" games (for example 999 and Virtue's Last Reward) have this effect when LP'd. When you're playing the game you move from scene to scene without any time to stop and reflect, while LPs go in chunks so you have a lot less to digest at a time (or in the case of screenshot LPs, things which were onscreen for a second get plenty of time sticking around to be noticed). There's also a lot more eyes on any given part of the story than when one person's playing. When I played it myself I had to rely on dreams to figure things out, when playing I was just too caught up in the top-level of figuring out how to kill whatever was in my way.

GenHavoc
Jul 19, 2006

Vive L'Empreur!
Vive La Surcouf!

Sundowner posted:

Well I think, although it's not made clear, that after the baptism he floats down the long hallway. I didn't do a good job of showing it but if you look behind the preacher there's a long tunnel to where the water flows and a bright glimmering exit at the end. I would imagine when entering Columbia you are washed of your sins and then left to float on down the river, so to speak, until you spill out unto the face of the founding fathers.

Well hell, there goes another one. I suppose I did describe these theories as wildly unsupported. Still, now we know.

Here are my reactions to the second video.

  1. So I'm assuming at this point that Vigors are a stand-in for Bioshock's Plasmids. The parallels are immense. Both are magic tonics that give one superpowers. Both are apparently created by a genius inventor (Fontaine/Fink). I vaguely remember that Plasmids were created from sea slugs on the ocean floor using stem cells. Perhaps that is true here. Perhaps Fontaine and Fink are even the same person? Goes beyond the evidence at this point.

  2. That said, there's something odd going on here. The society in Columbia has an awfully blase attitude towards people downing shots of super-serum and gaining the ability to hurl people into the air. A carnival booth operator apparently hands one out capable of inducing telekinesis to everyone who wants to play a little carnival game, which is impressive sang-froid given the barrels of fireworks littered all around the carnival. It also confuses me, as the entire premise of Bioshock 1 (and 2) was the utter destruction that unfettered access to superpowers inflicted on the society of Rapture once use (and abuse) became widespread. Maybe Columbia is in the early stages? Or maybe there's some limitation I don't know about.

    EDIT: Turns out there is. I didn't realize the carnival version is only temporary, as later on you have the option of buying the full Vigor for more money than you will have at this juncture. Still seems dangerous, but perhaps mindsets on such things were different before the Great War.

  3. Okay, the second barker refers overtly to the Vox Populi spreading "dissent" and "lies", which means my theory as to a competing political or religious organization (possibly both) is probably correct. So what is their philosophy then? Is the name Vox Populi one they use, or one that was given to them? My assumption is the former, as it sounds like something a bunch of populist rebels would adopt. What agenda do they have then? My guess would be Atheism, Socialism, Anarchism, or some combination of the three, as they would both be appropriate for the period. I expect we'll find out.

  4. Sort of a continuation on 2 above, but the second carnival game involves the use of real shotguns. Was that normal in state fairs around the turn of the 20th century? It may well have been, for all I know, but it further re-enforces the carefree attitude of Columbia in general towards the possible ramifications of violence. An innocent society that would never think of such things perhaps? No idea.

  5. Why would the troops of a flying city-state need mechanical horses?

  6. Booker records himself saying "What's a Voxophone" on a Voxophone. I wonder if that will come back at any point?

  7. I'm afraid I couldn't make out any of the lyrics to the bluegrass quartet that Booker visited shortly after the voxophone booth (too many other barkers). But they looked like they were standing in front of a Texas Flag, distinct from what I presume to be the flag of Columbia (which we've seen on a couple buildings), that consists of a single star on a bed of 13 stripes. What symbolism that has, I don't know, but I suppose it's possible the backdrop was just bunting of some sort.

  8. The Third Barker mentions "the anarchist Daisy Fitzroy", whom I assume to be a leader of the Vox Populi, which if true, confirms one of my theories above concerning their politics. How exactly Anarchy is supposed to work in a flying city is beyond me, but it's certainly possible the label is one being invented by her opponents. It's also possible she's the girl we're here to get, though my money'd still be on this "Lamb" that we've been told about. Of course, it's not beyond the realm of possibility that they are one and the same.

  9. What the hell is that "Handyman" supposed to be? It sure doesn't look too happy to be up there, but the barker doesn't explain what he is or what his purpose is for. I would hope that's cleared up at some point. My guess would be along the lines of a proto-Big Daddy? Perhaps literally. This is a prequel after all.

  10. I do like the new style of Monty Python/daguerrotype montages explaining the vigors more than I did the old Pipboy style from Bioshock 1/2. Though why the hell would they set up a booth with free samples of a security-machine-defeating vigor in front of a security machine designed to keep people out of the raffle? Why would they give out samples of that at all? It made sense in Rapture, but I don't feel it does here."

  11. So this is the sequence that you were all referring to from Rosencrantz and Guildenstern are Dead. A few notes that I picked up. The man and woman in this sequence sound an awful lot like the man and woman from the rowboat. Other than to ask the question of heads or tails, they do not address the protagonist directly, turning away from him, just like the mystery boaters, conversing with one another about something that makes no sense as though Booker were not there. As many of you pointed out, the play they are referencing is a heavily meta-laced play, in which the two bit characters discuss fate and destiny, insignificance, and other such matters. What does all this mean? I have no idea. Is this the same couple as from the rowboat? If so, why doesn't Booker recognize them? Are they some kind of meta-plot-device?

    Wildly unsupported theory #4: Booker is making this entire thing up, lost in some mental delusion thanks to a horrific tragedy and trauma which he blames himself for. The man and woman who keep appearing are the representations of his conscious mind rejecting the delusion that he has created for itself by pointing out its false nature and hinting at the rigid causality involved in the game, forcing him along a given path to confront Comstock. What Comstock represents in this theory, I leave to other people.

  12. Songbird Songbird from the sky... awful violent for a nursery rhyme, but then it's no worse than Ring Around the Rosie I suppose. Is the Songbird a real thing? Or a symbol for the Vox Populi (or something else)?

  13. Salt?

  14. That's a nasty looking instrument the cops have there. Doesn't seem tremendously practical, but what do I know?

  15. This came up before, but I noticed it more just now. The three symbols on the bells before, and on the statues and balloons in Columbia, are the Sword for Washington, the Scroll for Jefferson, and the Key for Franklin. War, Law, and Science. Fitting emblems, particularly given Columbia's role as an extreme version of turn-of-the-century American Exceptionalism. There's a palpably triumphalist mood to the entire city thus far, though it does seem to be a functioning state, by and large.

  16. The voxophone from Constance was sent to "Madame Lutesce", whom, if I remember correctly, was the person who sent us the telegram. Moments later we see that the statue is to "R. Lutesce", who gave Columbia her wings. The inventor of the technology that levitates the city, I must presume, particularly given the reference from Constance as to her books on the sciences. We now have explicit confirmation of "the girl in the tower", which I presume to be that giant angel thing.

  17. The song that plays directly after the statue is Goodnight, Irene, a folk song that dates back to at least 1933, and probably several decades before. This, at least is not an anachronism, but it is interesting, in that the song is a blues staple for a reason, as it is morose and even references suicide. It would seem somewhat out of place for a festival day at a triumphalist city like Columbia, but perhaps they liked the melody?

  18. The false shepherd mark that Booker bears is plainly supposed to be some kind of number of the Beast. But what does AD mean? Anno Domini? I don't see the connection. None of the characters we've met so far seem to have those initials, though... Booker's last name is DeWitt. He would be BD then. Maybe there's a connection there?

  19. Aaaaand of course Booker draws 77, despite being warned not to by the telegram. I like the touch that the raffle balls are baseballs. It may just be me, but I'm getting a strong reminder of Shirley Jackson's "The Lottery", a short story from 1948 about a "free" lottery in a small town. In that story, one member of the town was selected at random to be the scapegoat for the town's sins and then ritually stoned to death. Maybe it's just my assumption that things can't be as perfect as they're assumed to be. My guess, given everything we've seen thus far, is that having chosen the lucky number, Booker will "win" the prize of being ritually sacrificed or some such.

  20. :stonk:

    Jesus loving Christ.

    Okay so... um... yeah, not so much with the sacrificed thing. A black woman and a white man, I'm assuming this is a punishment for interracial marriage? They're described as groom and bride after all. And the announcer (I just noticed) appears to be Jeremiah Fink himself. Just a question. What happens if you choose to throw the ball at the couple? Does the cop still grab your arm? What if you don't throw it at all? On another note, I guess we know what that weird device is for.

    Okay, so Columbia is ultra-America as it was in the early 1900s, warts and all. Plainly racism is alive and well here, as was historically the case in the US at the time, though I confess, this is taking it a bit far even for then. What does this development mean? Are the Vox Populi integrationists as well as "anarchists"? Perhaps that's where they get their anarchy slur from. No doubt we'll be meeting them soon.

  21. Obviously now that the combat has begun, there's going to be fewer hints than there were, and thus less for me to speculate on, but there's still a bit going on. One of the policeman shouts "The fireman! He's here!" Are you the fireman? Is that tied into this false shepherd notion? And what does the Fireman mean?

    EDIT: Nevermind.

  22. The loading screen when you enter the Blue Ribbon shows a Pinkerton's badge, which I am assuming belongs to Booker (or belonged at least), especially since it's laid atop a Pinkerton's agency form with Booker's name and vital statistics on it. I further assume the case file there relates to the girl you're trying to find. So Booker is a Pinkerton, or was one.

  23. It's almost like these two mystery people know where you're going to be...

    Wildly unsupported theory #5: These two are time travelers, who are using their foreknowledge of events to arrange to be in positions where they know Booker will go. They've done this routine, watching him get close and fail, hundreds and thousands of times already, which explains why they knew your coin flip was going to come out heads, and also why they knew you weren't going to row the boat. It further explains why you were unable to shoot them, as they knew you were going to do that, and used that knowledge to subtly move out of the way of the bullet based on the trajectory they knew it would take...

    ... wait... no, for them to know that, they would need to have seen it happen the first time and then one of them would be dead. Maybe the other one then used more time travel to warn the one who was shot, which thus allowed them to evade the bullet. A simple test: Line up a shot that would normally hit both of them and see if it works.

    Of course this theory does not jive with the Comstock-is-a-time-traveller theory except in ways that go way beyond the evidence at this point. More details as they become available.

  24. The festival marks Columbia's "secession" from the Sodom below. So was Columbia a recognized, federalized part of the US? Or was that a figure of speech, referring to the fact that they simply left the ground behind.

  25. Something odd here. There's female cops in this world. Given the racism, I would not have expected to find women in Columbia's police force, as that's wildly anachronistic to the period. There was even a mention earlier about how science was not a proper pursuit for a lady, yet apparently wielding machine guns was?

  26. The civilian who lets you loot his house (how nice of him) describes himself as a "Progressive", which is an interesting term to use. 1912 was the year that Theodore Roosevelt founded the Progressive Party, while this is also the middle of the so-called "Progressive Era" that lasted from around 1890 to 1929. Progressives originally were somewhat liberal rationalists who advocated improving the lot of workers, unionization, trust-busting, and the general establishment of social programs and laws. Who knows if that term has any meaning in Columbia, as Progressive around here could mean "Let's only beat racial minorities. But it does cast a bit more light on the mainstream viewpoints of Columbia proper.

  27. The flyers in the Montgomery Residence are staples from the Abolitionist movement and beyond into Reconstruction and the equality politics of the late 1800s. I would wager, given what we've seen thus far, that the former might well be as important as the latter in Columbia. I couldn't help but notice four beds in one room you entered? Might this be a stopover on some kind of Columbian Underground Railroad?

    EDIT: The Fink Voxophone would seem to confirm this, as the blacks are convicts from Georgia imported to perform menial labor at what I will assume, based on everything else, is slave-terms. Lovely.

  28. A "pretty interesting respawn screen" indeed. I'm not sure what theory that lends credence to, but it would seem to suggest that everything that's happening in Columbia is not real, or being imagined, or perhaps that this is all a memory of the "real" present in the 1930s when the airships attack New York.

  29. That line in the "Half a Jew" voxophone from Comstock, about how a hundred pages will suffice for his biography for "he knows how it ends", is very interesting. It would seem to confirm the Comstock-Time-Traveler theory from before, as it means he has advance knowledge of how events are to play out. Which leads to a thought...

    Wildly unsupported theory #6: Fusing theories 2 and 5, what if Comstock and the mystery couple are all time travelers? Perhaps they're playing a dueling game of trying to outmaneuver one another to arrange for Booker to win or lose by manipulating events around him to help or hinder his progress? But then why wouldn't Comstock have simply had Booker arrested prior to arriving, or some other such thing? And how does this interface with Lutesce, who seems to also have foreknowledge of what's going on here? More data required.

  30. The voxophone about Otis mentions that he took the locked chest from a "lodge" where secret ceremonies are performed, and something about "feathered brothers"? A masonic cult in Columbia? Seems a bit anachronistic. Is this perhaps connected to the "Songbird" the girls from before were singing about?

  31. Columbia was built in 1893? That's less than three years after Wounded Knee, which Comstock is supposed to have participated in. Did he build the thing in three years? Or did he start it before the massacre took place? Or was my previous theory accurate and Columbia itself is from the future? This is becoming ridiculous...

  32. So the reference before to suppressing the "Orientals" was in reference to the Boxers. And moreover, it appears that Columbia was at least at one point affiliated with the US government, as Washington is giving them orders to stand down from their actions with the Boxers, whereupon they seceded from the US itself. So that means that Columbia was certainly built with the knowledge of, and likely with the help of the US government. But when? And how? And was time travel involved at all? If the US government knew about Columbia's construction, then it can't have just materialized overnight. Perhaps Comstock brought the technology back to do it, but then what was the role of this Lutesce woman?

GenHavoc fucked around with this message at 11:38 on Aug 26, 2013

Ulvirich
Jun 26, 2007

GenHavoc, in sincerity, your speculation and theories are great, please continue to do them. I'm going to decline from discussing'em with you as I've played through Infinite before and I don't want to confirm or deny anything.

Samovar
Jun 4, 2011

I'm 😤 not a 🦸🏻‍♂️hero...🧜🏻



Hang on, wasn't the 'Blue Ribbon' movement a prohibition group back in the day? If so, a good name for a bar.

Edit - Also, the comments on acting for the womenfolk to stop the false shepherd are almost word-for-word some of the propaganda used by the Confederacy for keeping black Americans as slaves.

Samovar fucked around with this message at 12:13 on Aug 26, 2013

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare
Now this thread is just waiting on the edge of their seats to see what of Gen's theories are true and which aren't. I'm a little taken back by some of the things you've come up with so far. We'll see how much of it is true and how much is false soon enough.

Pyradox
Oct 23, 2012

...some kind of monster, I think.

This is a game that definitely merits an LP, because it puts a huge amount of interesting discussion material on the table, even if I sometimes felt like it doesn't quite know what its trying to say about it. But then, that's always been the case with the -Shock games, and its what I feel separates them from the Deus Ex series , which they're otherwise quite similar to(aside from their steadily declining RPG elements).

To expand on that, the Deus Ex games tend to include several strong perspectives on its core issues, all putting forth their arguments before asking you to choose which you believe to be the best one at the end. The -Shock games in contrast use the whole debate as set dressing, making the player an outsider with no stake in the world or its politics beyond "they all basically want me dead". You might form opinions, but your character is always solely out for themselves and any alliances are about convenience rather than sympathy. Its a result of a more linear approach to storytelling, which is kind of required by its design. Where Deus Ex is about being offered multiple solutions to every situation, the -Shocks tend to give you problems with only one solution - typically resulting in one of the aforementioned alliances of convenience or at least bunch of fetch quests. It's about reinforcing a sense of desperation and making compromises to survive, as opposed being expressing your character. So I guess what I'm really trying to say here is that their settings are often a lot more interesting than the game itself is prepared to deal with, which is very much my way of praising them with faint damnation.

Still, the approach has proved a bit controversial at times, but I can't really say more in the context of Infinite without going into spoiler territory. For an idea, just note how hamfisted the "save or harvest little sisters" mechanic in the original Bioshocks was. The game tried to portray it as having to do horrible things in difficult circumstances (making compromises to survive) but there was really no major loss to saving them all, and no incentive to switch between saving or harvesting over the course of a playthrough. In fact if you did switch then by the time you got to the end you'd find out that it only takes one harvest to get the bad ending because you're still a child killing monster and what did you think would happen?

Ulvirich posted:

GenHavoc, in sincerity, your speculation and theories are great, please continue to do them. I'm going to decline from discussing'em with you as I've played through Infinite before and I don't want to confirm or deny anything.

I can only agree. I didn't know nearly as much about history to have half these theories when I played, so its impressive just how much he's been able to come up with based on knowledge of the setting, or at least its inspirations. Even though I've played the game to completion they're still quite enjoyable to read either to highlight foreshadowing I missed in the case of accurate guesses or to imagine the possibilities at the incorrect ones.

Obviously though, I won't say how many, if any are correct or incorrect either, I'm only even mentioning that some are accurate because they were directly confirmed in the videos.

Inferior
Oct 19, 2012

I loved Binfinite when I played it, and have been meaning to give it a replay. Rewatching the opening and spotting all the little things I missed the first time is interesting- the easy-to-miss little scene with the telescope made me laugh.

"God Only Knows"- is a great scene for several reasons- it's a lovely song, the lyrics are meaningful in the context of the story, and the anachronism subtly hints that Columbia is even weirder than it first seems.

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

GenHavoc posted:

Okay, the second barker refers overtly to the Vox Populi spreading "dissent" and "lies", which means my theory as to a competing political or religious organization (possibly both) is probably correct. So what is their philosophy then? Is the name Vox Populi one they use, or one that was given to them? My assumption is the former, as it sounds like something a bunch of populist rebels would adopt. What agenda do they have then? My guess would be Atheism, Socialism, Anarchism, or some combination of the three, as they would both be appropriate for the period. I expect we'll find out.

Considering that Vox Populi means "voice of the people," I highly doubt that Comstock and the rest of his heierarchy would name a Rebel group something with such a powerful meaning behind it. If Comstock's cult is an extension of American Exceptionalism to the point of religious fervor, then the Vox likely refutes Comstock's status as a Prophet. We've already seen some individuals who are quietly discontented with how Columbia has been going about its business as a 'promised land,' so I'd guess that the Vox are taking that discontent to a more violent or dramatic extreme.

quote:

Booker records himself saying "What's a Voxophone" on a Voxophone. I wonder if that will come back at any point?

It did, about 2 seconds later. :v:

Edit: As fun as the Fireman being a possible reference to Farenheit 451 might be, I really question the risk-reward ratio of having someone who can and will indiscriminately burn entire blocks of your city in search of a single man.

Green Intern fucked around with this message at 13:14 on Aug 26, 2013

CuwiKhons
Sep 24, 2009

Seven idiots and a bear walk into a dragon's lair.

GenHavoc posted:

[*]Very strong. This Comstock guy even looks kind of like Joseph Smith. But for analysis: Comstock was the name of the silver lode in Colorado that was discovered in 1859, the one that George Hearst and the Bonanza Kings used to make their fortunes. It's also the name of a lot of other stuff, but that's the first thing that comes to mind. The Comstock lode was the biggest mining strike since the California Gold Rush, and helped sustain the western drive of American Expansion. I know from the rest of the thread that such themes are involved in this game, so perhaps this is a reference of import.

I really, really like your posts but I can answer this one without spoiling anything: Comstock is almost certainly named after Anthony Comstock, a late 19th/early 20th century political figure who was extremely religious and extremely pro-censorship.

Edit - Though I should note that Anthony Comstock was way more about anti-sex stuff that any sort of race stuff. The Comstock laws are named after him and boy are they a hoot and a half.

CuwiKhons fucked around with this message at 13:22 on Aug 26, 2013

S.D.
Apr 28, 2008
Oh boy, a Bioshock Infinite LP! I really need to replay this at some point; I didn't do nearly enough personal thinking about the game, mostly because I'm not a very deep thinker, but also somewhat with how I experienced the game - playing a friend's copy at his place while he watched. Basically, my suspension of disbelief broke at about 23:55 to 24:05. in the first video - you see Sundowner taking a medkit on a counter, but you can also interact with the cake beside the kit.

Doing so makes you eat the cake in one bite. Along with the candles and the stand its on.

Once that happened, the game ceased to be Bioshock Infinite for me and turned into Booker's Big Air Adventure!

Deleuzionist
Jul 20, 2010

we respect the antelope; for the antelope is not a mere antelope

GenHavoc posted:

There's... no connection? But I was so sure...

Goddamn. That's highly disappointing. I had this whole theory forming up that I now have to scrap. Curses. It also seems rather lazy of them to have no connection at all between the immediate sequel to Bioshock and this, especially if they're going to use the same imagery.
It's actually one of the things that should be counted in favour of Infinite that it doesn't touch the mess that is the Bioshock 2 plot at all. While B2's combat was in every way superior to the first game the plot was like a squealing wet fart passed just after a symphony has finished playing.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous

Deleuzionist posted:

It's actually one of the things that should be counted in favour of Infinite that it doesn't touch the mess that is the Bioshock 2 plot at all. While B2's combat was in every way superior to the first game the plot was like a squealing wet fart passed just after a symphony has finished playing.

I wouldn't put it that way. From what I've seen in Brainamp's LP, it had quite a few good ideas, it was just really hamfisted about the delivery.

ZenVulgarity
Oct 9, 2012

I made the hat by transforming my zen

Okay now I have to read the thread just for GenHavoc's posts.

The Wicked Wall
Aug 24, 2012

I guess the aphorism
"I think, therefore I am" brings little comfort in this case.

ZenVulgarity posted:

Okay now I have to read the thread just for GenHavoc's posts.

All I can think of when reading these is the bit in Psychonauts where you turn on the psycho vision thing in Boyd's house and suddenly all the lines and theories and weird scrawlings on the wall appear. Do more please GenHavoc!

Anyways, looking forward to this LP Sundowner, it goes without saying your mission is to eat everything in sight and drink all available beverages. I played through most of it at a friend's and then he took over to do the rest (mostly because I was so tired of the combat) so I'm interested to see how you show off all the Vigor combos someone already mentioned as me + friend only used one or two because frankly, that's all we needed.

resurgam40
Jul 22, 2007

Battler, the literal stupidest man on earth. Why are you even here, Battler, why did you come back to this place so you could fuck literally everything up?

GenHavoc posted:

[*]Okay, this has nothing to do with the plot, but I'll say this, the music in that underground, water-covered temple-church-cathedral-whatever is hauntingly beautiful. I don't think I've ever seen anything like this landing (the scripture and whatnot) in any game before. To return to the plot, we're barely a minute in, and I'm getting a very strong Church-of-Latter-Day-Saints vibe from this whole thing. Like we're entering some kind of Mormon Tabernacle.

I'm really loving your posts and hope you continue with them, GenHavoc, but since no one's mentioned this yet, that hymn is Will The Circle Be Unbroken, one of my favorite hymns ever. It is beautiful, as you've said, and really fits the mood of the Welcome Area. That hymn was also heavily featured in the advertising of this game, and why not, when its chorus is just so perfect?


Will the circle be unbroken
By and by, by and by?
Is a better home awaiting
In the sky, in the sky?


Same with "Goodnight, Irene;" I'm a real sucker for period music done well, and the soundtrack to this game, as I've said, is phenomenal.

(Er, by the way, be careful about searching for that song in relation to Infinite, as it may spoil you as to future events. There are a number of versions that have nothing to do with this game that are awesome. Do you like Johnny Cash? He did one.)

Barf Wight
Sep 4, 2011
OK, you can stop yelling :hf:
This game sure is pretty, but at some point between the announcement and release I guess I just lost interest. I am excited to see what comes next. Good job so far Sundowner, I like the pace you're taking and the fact that you don't expand on a bunch of stuff before the game does.

GenHavoc you're crazy. I like you, but you're crazy.

Just one note, the telegram we got was from Lutece, but we don't know which Lutece, do we? For all we know there's a big ol' mess of Luteces.

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare
Thanks dudes. I appreciate being told I'm actually doing the game good (so far) and not loving it up royally.

And yes, be careful when searching up some of the music or things people mention as there tends to always be some buffoon who nonchalantly discusses things from the late game or ending without considering that others may not have played the game. Oh and also related videos on YouTube can be a problem, too. I'd even go as far as to say don't look up any of the music of this game because there are some pretty cool pieces that you may not expect that really could only have been special in the context of the game.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




The gameplay looks so dated but everything else looks great.

Why go through the trouble of making this new amazing setting if you're going to have the main character still hunt through garbage for snacks while killing an army of screaming people?

getting bored murdering people is bad for immersion.

Ardryn
Oct 27, 2007

Rolling around at the speed of sound.


GenHavoc posted:

Words Galore.
I'm surprised you didn't comment on how the picture with Lincoln in it was partially covered by that heavy curtain. Although it makes it seem that Lincoln wouldn't be as popular as the "three saints" because of the Emancipation Proclamation, that also raises the question as to why Comstock is in the drawing. Is it simply, Comstock is great and received inspiration from all the great presidents, or is it supposed to be Comstock judging Lincoln for "raising Blacks above their station."

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



How much of this game is loving over racists? My interest in this game hinges on my ability to kill whitey.

I really do wish you could have beanballed the guy at the raffle, though.

Real hurthling!
Sep 11, 2001




22 Eargesplitten posted:

How much of this game is loving over racists? My interest in this game hinges on my ability to kill whitey.

I really do wish you could have beanballed the guy at the raffle, though.

I have heard from a couple reviews that one issue with the moral choices in the game is that lots of them don't really matter and are just an "am I an rear end in a top hat" test.

Real hurthling! fucked around with this message at 19:25 on Aug 26, 2013

Podima
Nov 4, 2009

by Fluffdaddy

This is sort of spoilery - you may want to redact/delete that.

my dad
Oct 17, 2012

this shall be humorous
Speculation based on the thread title:

Since Quantum is almost exclusively used in Science Fiction for describing:
A) Power sources
B) Time travel
C) Parallel universes

I'm going to bet that there's a super-high-tech energy source that keeps the city afloat and it is somehow connected to time travel of the "travel to a parallel universe's past, not your own" sort.

Sundowner
Apr 10, 2013

not even
jeff goldblum could save me from this nightmare
I've been thinking about how often I want to post updates. I certainly won't be doing more than two a week but just because the thread has started off good and there's a lot of speculation and chit chat about the opening hour, I figure putting up another update might be good but in general I'll probably only post one update a week, two at a stretch. I just recently started a new college course (maybe one day I'll make a game as good as BioShock Infinite v:v:v) and I don't want to distract my self too much. Thankfully in Scotland "full time" College is only 3 days week but I have a stupid day-on-day-off schedule right now that means I don't have a long stretch of free time at any point in the week to work on videos.

Seeing as tomorrow is one of those days off, I may post an update.

Edit: I was just thinking that "Quantum Racism" might have also been a funny title, now that I think about it.

Sundowner fucked around with this message at 19:07 on Aug 26, 2013

1stGear
Jan 16, 2010

Here's to the new us.

Sundowner posted:

Edit: I was just thinking that "Quantum Racism" might have also been a funny title, now that I think about it.

Schrodinger's Coin Flips

Ulvirich
Jun 26, 2007

Schrödinger's Quantum Rubbish Can Sandwiches.

What I really did like in this game, which is a few updates away probably, is how they showed WHERE Columbia gets resources for sustaining such a high quality of life. It's a pretty rad game world they developed.

Ulvirich fucked around with this message at 20:17 on Aug 26, 2013

Bruceski
Aug 21, 2007

The tools of a hero mean nothing without a solid core.

Where things started feeling silly to me was when I pulled a cup of steaming hot coffee out of the trash and drank it.

Night10194
Feb 13, 2012

We'll start,
like many good things,
with a bear.

Look, man, slaughtering veritable swarms of sky-racists takes a lot out of you. Booker needs his coffee and trash-cakes.

Spiritus Nox
Sep 2, 2011

1stGear posted:

Schrodinger's Coin Flips

Did anyone catch Comstock talking about Schrodinger's Baptism?

Thunderfinger
Jan 15, 2011

1stGear posted:

Schrodinger's Coin Flips

Schrodinger's Zybourne Clock, more like.

I mean, hell even the spoilers* thread in the main Games forum references it.

*(Which you should not look up)

Barf Wight
Sep 4, 2011
OK, you can stop yelling :hf:

Bruceski posted:

Where things started feeling silly to me was when I pulled a cup of steaming hot coffee out of the trash and drank it.

Sundowner eating some cereal in the middle of a firefight put a smile on my face. I know it's just 'healing item #17' but the image of just munching on a whole pack of corn flakes is too good.

Epic High Five
Jun 5, 2004



Barf Wight posted:

Sundowner eating some cereal in the middle of a firefight put a smile on my face. I know it's just 'healing item #17' but the image of just munching on a whole pack of corn flakes is too good.

It's like the scene from Scarface with the pile of cocaine, except this time it's Cinnamon Toast Crunch

Judge Tesla
Oct 29, 2011

:frogsiren:

Bruceski posted:

Where things started feeling silly to me was when I pulled a cup of steaming hot coffee out of the trash and drank it.

Subject Delta in Bioshock 2 spent the entire game eating random stuff from the floor and he didn't even have a mouth, due to being a Big Daddy, so I assume he just absorbed the food through his suit or something.

Ledgy
Aug 1, 2013

Up against the wall

Judge Tesla posted:

Subject Delta in Bioshock 2 spent the entire game eating random stuff from the floor and he didn't even have a mouth, due to being a Big Daddy, so I assume he just absorbed the food through his suit or something.

Alpha Daddies weren't fused with their armor, so he probably removed his helmet to eat or something.

a spooky ghost
Jan 1, 2010

stay the same never change
I loved the first two updates!

I have seen a few runs of the game's opening in a "let's try" context and am excited to see if the rest of the game can stand up to the impressive beginning. I get the feeling Infinite will continue the tradition of me and Bioshock games where I appreciate them loads more as LPs than as games I have to play. The fun is almost all in the stories and the pretty environments, as far as I am concerned.

Seer235
May 13, 2011

legendsuper posted:

Alpha Daddies weren't fused with their armor, so he probably removed his helmet to eat or something.

Nah, the helmet never came off. He just smeared it all over his visor and let the placebo effect do its job.

GenHavoc
Jul 19, 2006

Vive L'Empreur!
Vive La Surcouf!
Thanks guys, I'm glad these rambling posts of mine are of value to someone. I'm truly just throwing down any considerations I can think of, and I feel certain I've already missed several things. I didn't notice anything strange about the telescope scene, for instance...

Green Intern posted:

Considering that Vox Populi means "voice of the people," I highly doubt that Comstock and the rest of his heierarchy would name a Rebel group something with such a powerful meaning behind it. If Comstock's cult is an extension of American Exceptionalism to the point of religious fervor, then the Vox likely refutes Comstock's status as a Prophet. We've already seen some individuals who are quietly discontented with how Columbia has been going about its business as a 'promised land,' so I'd guess that the Vox are taking that discontent to a more violent or dramatic extreme.

The abolitionist (I'm guessing that's what he is) in the building with all the emancipation flyers is complaining to his wife about how violence was not yet certain, which sounds a lot to me like violence has already begun. Given the reaction that Columbia's police force has to you when you are discovered, I'm feeling safe in assuming that they started it, but it's entirely possible the Vox have initiated some form of terrorist resistance to the rule of Comstock.

CuwiKhons posted:

I really, really like your posts but I can answer this one without spoiling anything: Comstock is almost certainly named after Anthony Comstock, a late 19th/early 20th century political figure who was extremely religious and extremely pro-censorship.

Edit - Though I should note that Anthony Comstock was way more about anti-sex stuff that any sort of race stuff. The Comstock laws are named after him and boy are they a hoot and a half.

Well crap, my history has failed me, as I honestly never heard of Anthony Comstock before now. I have however heard of his organization, the New York Society for the Suppression of Vice, a semi-paramilitary organization that was empowered to make arrests and levy fines for those in violation of obscenity laws that they effectively made up. I wasn't aware that they extended into racism, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Deleuzionist posted:

It's actually one of the things that should be counted in favour of Infinite that it doesn't touch the mess that is the Bioshock 2 plot at all. While B2's combat was in every way superior to the first game the plot was like a squealing wet fart passed just after a symphony has finished playing.

I really thought Bioshock 2 was interesting, albeit very poorly handled, but even if the game were useless, to pretend it never happened and then happily re-use the same imagery (the Lamb) seems like a major oversight. Yes, the Lamb is a major emblem of Christian iconography, but it featured so heavily in the game immediately before this one that to deny all connection is just puzzling to me. Even a throwaway acknowledgment would be better than pretending it didn't happen.

resurgam40 posted:

I'm really loving your posts and hope you continue with them, GenHavoc, but since no one's mentioned this yet, that hymn is Will The Circle Be Unbroken, one of my favorite hymns ever. It is beautiful, as you've said, and really fits the mood of the Welcome Area. That hymn was also heavily featured in the advertising of this game, and why not, when its chorus is just so perfect?

I didn't have time in my rambling posts to go into it, but that's one of the most amazing openers I've ever seen, between the elevator passing through the scriptural verses illuminated by the sun, to the haunting sound of the choral hymn gradually appearing through the background sound, to the general appearance of the temple itself, to the first words Booker exchanges with a denizen of Columbia, ones that appear much more portentous now that we've seen more of the society.

"Where am I?"
"Heaven. Or nearest we'll get to it till judgment day."

The circle unbroken in the sky indeed.

Ardryn posted:

I'm surprised you didn't comment on how the picture with Lincoln in it was partially covered by that heavy curtain. Although it makes it seem that Lincoln wouldn't be as popular as the "three saints" because of the Emancipation Proclamation, that also raises the question as to why Comstock is in the drawing. Is it simply, Comstock is great and received inspiration from all the great presidents, or is it supposed to be Comstock judging Lincoln for "raising Blacks above their station."

Dammit, I completely missed the implications of this, as I couldn't decide what it meant for Comstock to be watching Lincoln. In retrospect, it seems obvious that it's intended to represent disapproval of Lincoln's actions, but then why make the picture at all? Then again, wasn't it hanging in the house of the abolitionists? If so, the curtain might well have been to hide it from the authorities, as though Lincoln were some kind of underground saint. The equivelant of having a Chairman Mao poster on the wall in Pinochet's Chile. The sort of thing one might wish to hide.

Green Intern
Dec 29, 2008

Loon, Crazy and Laughable

Judge Tesla posted:

Subject Delta in Bioshock 2 spent the entire game eating random stuff from the floor and he didn't even have a mouth, due to being a Big Daddy, so I assume he just absorbed the food through his suit or something.

He definitely had various intake ports. He's cramming cake into his feed-tube.

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Epic High Five
Jun 5, 2004



Green Intern posted:

He definitely had various intake ports. He's cramming cake into his feed-tube.

Subject Delta: the proto-goon

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