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I'm going to join the gushing fan-boyism about this game - when I first got it I had to fight the overwhelming urge to just take the rest of the week off from work to finish it. I'm not sure that sense of awe and wonderment held up as well in the other playthroughs I did, but it's still a very rich game. If I recall correctly, the plot and characters went through multiple rewrites not just because of the interaction between the voice actors but also other things that cropped up - there was a devout Christian developer that threatened to walk off because he saw the Founding Fathers' spirituality being shown as a knee-jerk "internet atheist" view on religions, which led to the team adding a stronger focus on forgiveness in the Comstock "religion"; the Occupy Wall Street protests informed a bit of the Vox Populi, etc. Which puts me in a bit of an odd place - I'm a sucker for Americana the likes of which the game starts off showing, but I'm also unable to divorce myself from the very real basic errors in human decency that accompanied that same time period. Hell, the Baptism scene is something that my Baptist relatives out in West Texas would be very much at home with... just as the older generation would be at home with the not-so-latent racism. Trying to remember where I read it, but I recall Ken Levine half-jokingly apologizing for the damage he's done to the Columbia "brand" - it's unlikely that she'll be making a comeback as an icon any time soon. More's the pity. Anyway, enough prattling - there's probably no way I could talk about anything in this game without spoiling something, so I'm just going to be along for the ride to see how someone else plays through the same game.
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Aug 27, 2013 01:36
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I have a certain contextual problem with this game's layout. It's not entirely a corridor shooter but it is indeed quite linear compared to the other Bioshocks and even though the protagonist is a for-hire private detective there's no real opportunity for him to, well, detect. That's sad.
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Aug 27, 2013 01:42
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Speedball posted:I have a certain contextual problem with this game's layout. It's not entirely a corridor shooter but it is indeed quite linear compared to the other Bioshocks and even though the protagonist is a for-hire private detective there's no real opportunity for him to, well, detect. That's sad. To be fair, he was a Pinkerton. That means that there's less Sam Spade and, more, well...  *Edit* To me, the Raffle in the game felt as though it was inspired, in part, by Shirley Jackson’s The Lottery. A quick search'll turn up the actual story itself but my first encounter with it was actually via a NBC radio drama (I have a weakness for podcasts devoted to old-time performances): http://ia600506.us.archive.org/9/items/NBC_short_story/510314_04_The_Lottery.mp3 "Lottery in June, corn be heavy soon." citybeatnik fucked around with this message at 02:29 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 01:51
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Speedball posted:I have a certain contextual problem with this game's layout. It's not entirely a corridor shooter but it is indeed quite linear compared to the other Bioshocks and even though the protagonist is a for-hire private detective there's no real opportunity for him to, well, detect. That's sad. Booker being a detective is flavor, I think, or at least an answer to the question "why send him after a girl instead of, say, breaking his legs to recover a gambling debt?" The game has established the various hats he's worn, but doesn't feel compelled to spell anything out. Coming from it from the point of view of having beaten the game already, it's really well done and I've had a couple "d'oh!" moments already. Speculation really can't be too wild at this point. Edit - and as mentioned above, he's a Pinkerton, which means "not a good guy" to anybody who knows about that sort of thing
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Aug 27, 2013 01:53
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I like to imagine that when Comstock was informed of what happened at the raffle it went something like this: : Father Comstock! The False Sheppard! He's here! : I foresaw this day stand tall for we have the Founders on our side: It's worse than you predicted. He's eating the food! All of it!: my GOD! Mobilize the Flying Squadron immediately We must stop him at once!
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Aug 27, 2013 03:51
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Wait a second, did that statue change from a man to a woman right before your eyes?! EDIT: Oh god, it changed to be a statue of the woman who warned you not to pick #77, what the heck is going on in this game?
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Aug 27, 2013 05:25
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Anonymous Zebra posted:Wait a second, did that statue change from a man to a woman right before your eyes?! Whoa whoa whoa what? I completely missed that.
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Aug 27, 2013 10:26
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I'm surprised because I both pan to the statue for a handful of seconds and say "that was weird"  .·´¯`·.´¯`·.what does it mean.·´¯`·.´¯`·.
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Aug 27, 2013 10:31
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Sundowner posted:I'm surprised because I both pan to the statue for a handful of seconds and say "that was weird" It's pretty easy to miss for some weird reason. The game itself even gives you the option to hold a button to focus the camera on it, and I still missed it the first time I played. I blame the fact that you approach the statue from the side and are somewhat distant from it. It doesn't change profile quite enough to draw your attention, if you miss the weird static effect.
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Aug 27, 2013 10:39
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Sundowner, your accent for the narration is great, and perfect for this game.  But say "Would you kindly?" just once and there will be hell to pay.
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Aug 27, 2013 11:22
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Attestant posted:It's pretty easy to miss for some weird reason. The game itself even gives you the option to hold a button to focus the camera on it, and I still missed it the first time I played. I blame the fact that you approach the statue from the side and are somewhat distant from it. It doesn't change profile quite enough to draw your attention, if you miss the weird static effect. Yeah, first time I saw it I thought it was some glitchy "error in the Matrix" kind of thing, but didn't see any actual change.
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Aug 27, 2013 11:23
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Sundowner posted:I'm surprised because I both pan to the statue for a handful of seconds and say "that was weird" I remember you saying that was weird. I don't remember the statue changing into the woman. Okay, so... Wildly unsupported theory #7: Lutece doesn't exist. Booker is substituting her into key locations in Columbia in his memory as a means of papering over some trauma or paradox with his broken memory. The telegram he received, and even the messenger boy who identified him with such ease were figments of his own imagination, as he misremembers what actually happened here in Columbia and invests his actions with some kind of predestination.
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Aug 27, 2013 11:29
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Doesn't that Lutece statue also look quite a bit like the woman who's following you around? That could play into the whole "she doesn't really exist" theory you have.
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Aug 27, 2013 11:32
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What bothers me the most about this game is that it's supposedly a story about a man's attempt find redemption and absolve himself of past sins and the loss of his daughter, and a woman's attempt to wrest herself free from her supposedly predetermined fate, all the while with an undercurrent of the duality of man and how simple moments can define the psyche of an entire lifetime yet all anyone can ever talk about is the loving alternate dimension poo poo. Seriously. All you ever see are reams, and reams of theories, people pounding on and on about their conclusions regarding the plot, always the drat bare boned basics of the plot. It's like going into CD and trying to have an actual talk about the themes of Primer, or Blade Runner, or anything else with some sort of obtuse plot, people substitute any sort of meaningful discussion with dumb poo poo about a harebrained plot. Maybe that's why I retroactively despise this game. (USER WAS PUT ON PROBATION FOR THIS POST)
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Aug 27, 2013 11:39
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Hey, the OP was pretty clear about not discussing ahead of what we've seen in the videos with or without spoiler tags and you're basically laying out pretty big plot points of the main characters that haven't been touched upon yet as well as the big loving reveal at the end of the game. I'd appreciate it if you would remove those immediately. I do agree with your sentiment, however. People get too caught up in the mechanics of things by the end of the game and forget about some of the more intimate themes. Sundowner fucked around with this message at 11:50 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 11:46
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JebanyPedal posted:words Dude, no spoilers policy.
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Aug 27, 2013 11:46
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There is a sinner among us brothers, and he must be cleansed.
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Aug 27, 2013 13:17
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I've been recording the next update and it's jam packed with more juicy stuff for you guys to talk about, like... really packed. Also I think my graphics card is dying because my game just crashed after the graphics started bugging out and the last minute of video is extremely corrupted due to it (I'm going to re-record those parts) but this also happened yesterday when I was playing Blacklist, so it's not unique to BioShock. I had some issues with my graphics card a couple of months ago (that is to say, one of the HDMI ports is completely hosed now) so I'm scared it may poo poo itself while I'm in the middle of this LP and won't allow me to continue so I'll need to try and find another cheap/replacement (which isn't exactly going to be a great replacement) 560ti, sooner rather than later but unfortunately my only income right now is for bills and getting to and from college, feeding my self somewhere in between. I have faith that it won't get that bad but it may just mean I have to record in short sessions to avoid overheating it or causing whatever the hell is happening, to happen. So long as it remains this way it shouldn't affect the LP.
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Aug 27, 2013 14:29
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Fun fact: Troy Baker also voices Male 1 from Saint's Row 3 & 4. Yes, you can now imagine Booker DDTing the Columbian police while shouting "Murdertime Funtime!"
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Aug 27, 2013 15:21
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GenHavoc posted:Wildly unsupported theory #7: Lutece doesn't exist. Booker is substituting her into key locations in Columbia in his memory as a means of papering over some trauma or paradox with his broken memory. The telegram he received, and even the messenger boy who identified him with such ease were figments of his own imagination, as he misremembers what actually happened here in Columbia and invests his actions with some kind of predestination. I'm actually leaning towards the British pair being time travelers/observers and that Lutece may be the woman, or something? It would explain why the statue suddenly changed, and it would also explain all their weird behavior. The coin flip thing reads like the two of them having a bet that this time it will come up tails. Who knows, though, this game is already more trippy than Bioshock 1 ever really got. EDIT: "Should we tell him when we're coming back?" "Will that change anything?" "No, but it might comfort him."
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Aug 27, 2013 16:48
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Sundowner, do you think you'd do any kind of commentary that's over the scenes as part of an uncut commentary for people who have played the game before (or parts of it)?
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Aug 27, 2013 17:28
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Starhawk64 posted:Fun fact: Troy Baker also voices Male 1 from Saint's Row 3 & 4. Yes, you can now imagine Booker DDTing the Columbian police while shouting "Murdertime Funtime!" "Destroy the False Shepherd!" "I'm not a false shepherd, I'm a puckish rogue!"
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Aug 27, 2013 17:37
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ZenVulgarity posted:Sundowner, do you think you'd do any kind of commentary that's over the scenes as part of an uncut commentary for people who have played the game before (or parts of it)? Hmm, it's definitely something I could do but with the way I record commentary right now it's not one seamless take. I usually watch the video and then as I'm watching it I think about what I might want to say and then add it in. I could definitely do that with areas I'd normally not speak but that might make it a little disjointed from the rest of the commentary and more often than not I don't have a whole lot to say during any given scene that wouldn't just make sense being said immediately afterwards. My timeline ends up looking like this (which is over about 10 minutes of video so far)  If I were doing some kind of post co-commentary/group thing and talking over cutscenes/events it would make more sense to have cut and uncut videos but I don't feel like that would suit the game too much unless it were someone really funny like TippingForties or MenDrinkingCoffee doing it. I'm not exactly great at riffing on games in a funny way, much to my chagrin, so I don't see that happening even as a bonus run.
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Aug 27, 2013 18:19
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I'm actually a Mormon, and watching the video, GenHavoc's theories about Columbia being super-racist sky-Mormons actually doesn't sound too crazy to me. I get vibes of Mormons ramped up to eleven, plus a ramped up version of the KKK, plus Baptists, plus Oregon Trail. The pictures of Comstock actually really resemble Lorenzo Snow, an LDS prophet. And the clothes that the pilgrims wear in the beginning do vaguely resemble LDS baptismal clothes. The Founder veneration is also spot-on, though we don't go nearly that far. It's too bad this game is probably going to be the only one with a major religious theme, because I'd love to see what the Bioshock guys could do with a even more Mormon-esque religion and say, a city under a mountain or whatever. Very pretty game in any case, it looks fantastic.
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Aug 27, 2013 19:12
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To be honest, I used mostly melee combat in this game. Granted early on I needed to use the assault rifle here, but once I found a particular vigor later on I just jammed my claw-hook into everybody's face. that and shotguns. and another weapon but I won't mention it yet (even if it is an FPS staple) also I stuck my head into this thread but GenHavoc just added it to my bookmarks
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Aug 27, 2013 19:19
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There may be some Mormon references, but most the inspiration for Comstock and his following was likely from the Third Great Awakening, which would make sense considering it covers the period when Comstock would have started to actually start preaching. I won't go into more on the details of their beliefs though, at least not for a few more videos.NextTime000 posted:To be honest, I used mostly melee combat in this game. Granted early on I needed to use the assault rifle here, but once I found a particular vigor later on I just jammed my claw-hook into everybody's face. that and shotguns. and another weapon but I won't mention it yet (even if it is an FPS staple) Oh I wonder what that could be...
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Aug 27, 2013 19:24
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Since this game was hyped pretty extensively, I was kind of curious what all the fuss was about; although I've only seen the first video thus far, I can see why people are so passionate about Infinite. Like Gen Havoc, I found myself spotting or just plain theorising about all sorts of junk, none of which is probably very insightful. For example, when I saw that Comstock had a big, magnificent white beard, my immediate thought was that it reminded me vaguely of various depictions of God - I'm thinking he's deliberately trying to cultivate something of a biblical quality as part of his cult of personality, though I'm sure any old person could have told you that. Spiritus Nox posted:Did anyone catch Comstock talking about Schrodinger's Baptism? Yeah, that caught my eye too - I've got a feeling that this isn't the last time we're going to get acquainted with Schrodinger... As for Lutece, the first thing I noticed was that they share the same last name as the person quoted at the beginning of the game. Coincidence? Crazy Theory: the Lutece quoted in the beginning is the same as the Lutece who contacted DeWitt via telegram - perhaps they're using some sort of crazy time/dimension (considering the content of the quotation) shenanigans in an attempt to get Booker to change his destiny. But why? Hopefully I'm not just regurgitating incredibly obvious things that everyone else has already figured out. If that's the case then I'd be happy to snip the wild eyed theories.
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Aug 27, 2013 20:06
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EDIT: naa I'll wait
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Aug 27, 2013 20:51
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Starhawk64 posted:Fun fact: Troy Baker also voices Male 1 from Saint's Row 3 & 4. Yes, you can now imagine Booker DDTing the Columbian police while shouting "Murdertime Funtime!" Well, except maybe Shadow Kanji, Schneizel or Espio. Those three are very different from Troy's usual type of character.
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Aug 27, 2013 20:52
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 I had an absolute blast recording the commentary for this video and in general I'm really enjoying how this LP is turning out. I tried a little more to expound on things my self here without getting in to spoiler territory. Keep up the speculation and theory chit chat and further more I'd like to encourage anyone with experience in history relating to the roundabout time period Infinite is set in (Late 1800 - Early 1900) to please feel free to elaborate more on it. Bonus stuff... Here are some Art assets pertinent to this update (click to see full image). I'd suggest checking them out after watching, not before.   
Sundowner fucked around with this message at 19:46 on Oct 20, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 21:52
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you're Latin is correct. The way it reads in the game, "our fatherland" is either in apposition to the subject "we" or the means through which we defend in general. What's this? People called Romans they go the house?
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Aug 27, 2013 22:09
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In relation to some of the American history stuff, back before Emancipation it was a common trope for Southern slave owners to claim that since blacks were subhuman (according to white plantation owners), they were obviously doing them a favor by enslaving them and giving them 'honest' work and good use. Similarly, racists will often point to statistics saying that minorities are more involved in crime or poverty to explain why they should be subjugated (ignoring socio-economic disadvantage and discriminatory policy). The shocking thing in the game isn't that Comstock and other characters say these things, it's that these are often things that were often said during the era when the game takes place. His statements about how the emancipation only freed them from doing 'honest' work would still be common among sharecroppers and confederate apology still happens today. Similarly, a lot of the imagery is often not exaggerated; these caricatures and things were often mainstream depictions of other races and nationalities. The horror in this game isn't how much it exaggerates, it's how little it has to, for the time period it depicts.
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Aug 27, 2013 22:22
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That table setup in the room with the painting of Booth assassinating Lincoln kind of reminds me of the table from the Last Supper of Christ. Were all the chairs on one side?
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Aug 27, 2013 22:23
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Fun fact, this painting actually got posted to a racist site or something like that with serious intention.
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Aug 27, 2013 22:30
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Ah, Murder of Crows. One of my favorite vigors. It doesn't really do much damage at all, but it stuns enemies and has fantastic range. Furthermore, anyone attacked by the crows will take extra damage from other sources, which makes taking enemies down with guns very easy. It can also be combined with the Devil's Kiss, which makes fire crows (as you kind of saw). Rad. And damaging! Murder of Crows is also the first vigor to have an exceptionally amazing vigor upgrade. Now, the "trap" with the Crows vigor makes a small patch on the ground that activates into crows when someone steps near. The vigor upgrade means that anyone who dies, from any source, while being attacked by crows becomes a crow trap. Used correctly, a gun and one use of Murder of Crows can sweep an entire wave of enemies this way. It also often lets you chain the vigor combination with crows, which is also amazing. Another small note on the Zealots you may have missed--you can see where they'll appear by watching where the crows move when he disappears. Makes it a lot simpler. I can say Comstock is definitely not comparing himself to the Native Americans, but I can explain why they would be the same if they are. I don't really want to go into it until some later voxophones are heard, though. If you want me to PM you the details Sundowner, I can. This episode also carries a very unsubtle reference to The White Man's Burden, aka, it is the White Man's "burden" to rule and take care of all the "lesser" races. This became a not uncommon belief for a lot of Western imperialists and was used as the justification for plenty of things--not freeing the Philippines like we promised after the Spanish American War, for one. We would hold it until after WWII in fact. The rebellions in the Philippines would be longer and more brutal than the actual War with Spain itself. The Brotherhood of the Crow is modeled after the KKK mostly. You didn't get a good look, but their outfits are basically blue versions of the KKK robe and hood. This video is the first time we've seen anarchists are explicitly mentioned. Anarchist movements were also very common during this time, mostly acting through assassinations and bombings. It's not surprising that an anti-elites movement like the Vox Populi would be anarchist movement, though considering the actions of anarchists in real life, it may not inspire the most confidence in the movement.
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Aug 27, 2013 22:31
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Brainamp posted:Fun fact, this painting actually got posted to a racist site or something like that with serious intention. That painting made me super excited for the themes this game would touch upon. It's a nice intentional satire of American imperialism.
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Aug 27, 2013 22:41
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Seer235 posted:I can say Comstock is definitely not comparing himself to the Native Americans, but I can explain why they would be the same if they are. I don't really want to go into it until some later voxophones are heard, though. If you want me to PM you the details Sundowner, I can. I should probably load up my save with all of the Voxophones and just give them a listen so I can be a little more vigilant in this regard because a couple of weeks ago I did go back and painstakingly collect every Voxophone I missed in my (ongoing) effort to platinum/100% the game but it has been a while since I stopped to listen to them all proper. I don't have PMs (or any upgrades, hence not being able to report that spoiler post sooner :\ so thanks to whoever did) but you could always IM me on Skype. I know for sure there are going to be some things that I'll forget to mention despite actually knowing but not feeling prompted to bring it up so feel free to add me and help keep me on check heh, my skype is just SundownerLP (I don't really mind who adds me, I barely use it as it is ).Edit: Also I feel like I'm probably doing my self and the LP a bit of a disservice by not having at least some things to go on with how this game relates to real history so I'm going to do a bit of reading and documentary watching regarding the relative time period. It's all intriguing regardless of how BioShock augments it slightly to suit the game and learning is always fun! Sundowner fucked around with this message at 22:48 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 22:42
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Little bit of trivia for you, that Police sketch you glanced at was a picture of Sander Cohen from Bioshock 1, its rather funny how people in Columbia have wildly different opinions about your appearance, as the police speakers mentioned just before this.
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Aug 27, 2013 22:49
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Judge Tesla posted:Little bit of trivia for you, that Police sketch you glanced at was a picture of Sander Cohen from Bioshock 1, its rather funny how people in Columbia have wildly different opinions about your appearance, as the police speakers mentioned just before this. Are you sure it's Sander Cohen? (I was being coy during that scene)^ ^ ^ This page contains spoilers for the first BioShock. Sundowner fucked around with this message at 22:57 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 22:52
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One of the things I 'love' about that giant fresco of Washington holding up a light to the barbarous foreign hordes contaminating America, is that if you look closely, one of the ethnic stereotypes is of a Native American. I think that detail encapsulates the sheer... arrogant stupidity of such imperialism. Not that the U.K. was much better, of course. Actually, it really wasn't, now that I come to think of it.
Samovar fucked around with this message at 23:18 on Aug 27, 2013 |
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Aug 27, 2013 23:00
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