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Deep Thought posted:Hey no need to apologise to me, this is a snarky forum. I actually wouldn't mind hearing about how birther beliefs and disarmament paranoia are really the displaced manifestation of someone's racially-aggravated Koro syndrome. It's just that your pop psychology cliches are more tired and just as baseless. They're not baseless at all. It's well-established by social psychology researchers that you can actually induce conspiracy thought by taking away peoples' feeling of control over their lives. Essentially the experiment goes like this: you have two groups. The first group receives a test where they have control over the right/wrong answers. The second group receives a written test where the right/wrong answers are randomized, effectively removing their sense of control. They are then either given a questionnaire with questions in it pertaining to conspiracy beliefs or something even simpler like where they are asked to see patterns in various posters (kind of like a Rorschach test but half the patterns are super obvious like a bird and the other half are non-existent). The group with control taken away from them had higher rates of conspiracy thought in the second questionnaire, and in the other experiment, the group with control taken away saw tons and tons of patterns in random geometric shapes with no actual patterns, far more than the control group did. As for delusional/paranoid/schizoid disorders, illogical conspiratorial thinking is one of the primary symptoms of these disorders.
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Sep 24, 2013 04:53
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As far as conservatives versus liberals, there are also well-established differences between the brains of political liberals and the brains of political conservatives, and this is something that neurological researchers have known for years. The brain of a conservative has, on average, a larger Amygdala (the part of the brain responsible for storage of memory of emotional events, primarily fear. If you have a damaged Amygdala you are literally incapable of remembering fear), and the brain of a liberal has, on average, a larger Anterior Cingulate (the part of the brain that is linked to various higher functions like reward anticipation, empathy, impulse control, and a few autonomic functions like blood pressure and heart rate). This finding has been independently replicated in numerous different studies. If you are a political liberal, you can pat yourself on the back as well, because the Anterior Cingulate also plays a crucial role in allowing you to maintain high levels of cognitive function into your old age, and psychological researchers have found that so-called "Super Agers" or 60-70 year olds with the same cognitive function of 30 year olds have large Anterior Cingulates. As far as this being related to birtherism, like I said, it's mainly due to the fact that political conervatives have a much stronger authoritarian bent and much more reverence for authority figures, so when their ultimate authority figure is a liberal black man, something that was unconscionable to them 20 years ago, they go into full denial mode and must scramble for ways to delegitimize him and his presidency in their minds to avoid cognitive dissonance, one of which is the whole Birther phenomenon.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:10
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Miltank posted:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2frJ3e0hxPE This is a really good song. These guys are pretty good rappers who have good voices for it. Why does the subject material have to be so fuckin stupid? The Egyptians had electrical power? WTF?
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Sep 24, 2013 05:35
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limeincoke posted:This is a really good song. These guys are pretty good rappers who have good voices for it. Why does the subject material have to be so fuckin stupid? The Egyptians had electrical power? WTF? http://ancientaliensdebunked.com/references-and-transcripts/112-2/ Explains the whole thing. Yea it looks like a lightbulb to us, because lightbulbs are a commonplace thing for us. If you learn imagry that the Egyptians used and put yourself in their frame of thinking, it makes sense in a more logical way.
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Sep 24, 2013 05:45
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Mr. Funny Pants posted:Watson made the "mistake" of humbly asking that men attending skeptic conferences not be creepy, stalky assholes. Later that night, a man in an elevator hit on her in a creepy way, and he would have heard her earlier request. And from that story came a thousand poo poo storms, including Dawkins saying (and I'm greatly simplifying here) essentially that boys will be boys. That might be an unfair characterization, so I welcome anyone adding to my understanding of the incident. You and CommieGIR got a few of the details wrong, which isn't really a big deal but the whole situation became such a poo poo-storm already that I'd rather it be accurately recounted. Rebecca Watson spoke at a skeptic's conference and later she mentioned her experiences afterward in an un-scripted YouTube video, saying: Rebecca Watson posted:Thank you to everyone who was at that conference who engaged in those discussions outside of that panel. You were all fantastic, and I loved talking to you guys. All of you except for the one man who didn't really grasp, I think, what I was saying on the panel? Because at the bar later that night--actually, at 4 in the morning--we were at the hotel bar. Four a.m., I said, "You know, I've had enough, guys, I'm exhausted, I'm going to bed." P.Z. Meyers, a popular skepticism/science/atheism blogger, https://mentioned. P.Z. Meyers posted:There is an odd attitude in our culture that it’s acceptable for men to proposition women in curious ways — Rebecca Watson recently experienced this in an elevator in Dublin, and I think this encounter Ophelia Benson had reflects the same attitude: women are lower status persons, and we men, as superior beings, get to ask things of them. Also as liberal, enlightened people, of course, we will graciously accede to their desires, and if they ask us to stop hassling them, we will back off, politely. Isn’t that nice of us? (that's just an excerpt of the full blog entry) Richard Dawkins commented on that blog post with: Richard Dawkins posted:Dear Muslima It was a reply to Meyers and not a letter to Watson as CommieGIR wrongly said. Later, he clarified his meaning by saying: Richard Dawkins posted:The man in the elevator didn't physically touch her, didn't attempt to bar her way out of the elevator, didn't even use foul language at her. He spoke some words to her. Just words. She no doubt replied with words. That was that. Words. Only words, and apparently quite polite words at that. Then here is Watson's account of the threatening and abusive comments that followed from other members of the community: http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2012/10/sexism_in_the_skeptic_community_i_spoke_out_then_came_the_rape_threats.html
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Sep 24, 2013 05:45
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There's just something weird to me about the idea of a skeptic 'community'.
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Sep 24, 2013 06:40
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I'm not labeling all skeptics with that brush, just like it wouldn't be fair to name all of a political or religious group with one brush, but any subset of people who share a common belief that they're passionate about are bound to form some sort of community around it. And to be fair there's a lot of legitimate causes for atheists/skeptics to fight for, mostly the same sort of discrimination non-Christians face in the US (although how much will vary from region to region and field to field). And like all communities some of those people do and say very dumb things.
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Sep 24, 2013 08:18
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limeincoke posted:This is a really good song. These guys are pretty good rappers who have good voices for it. Why does the subject material have to be so fuckin stupid? The Egyptians had electrical power? WTF? they have better political songs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KvJHB80rLeo
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Sep 24, 2013 08:32
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Popular Thug Drink posted:There's just something weird to me about the idea of a skeptic 'community'. Eh. Some of them get pretty insular and turn into MRA/Internet Atheist/"Humans are Rational Actors beep boop" hotbeds, but some of them can be quite nice. I hang out on the Randi/JREF forums quite often because the Science threads can get pretty in-depth, and it's a good resource for debunking some of the dumbest/most prevalent conspiracies.
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Sep 24, 2013 09:53
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If we're just posting music videos there https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2LgJviH9w
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Sep 24, 2013 10:44
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Sergg posted:As far as conservatives versus liberals, there are also well-established differences between the brains of political liberals and the brains of political conservatives, and this is something that neurological researchers have known for years. The brain of a conservative has, on average, a larger Amygdala (the part of the brain responsible for storage of memory of emotional events, primarily fear. If you have a damaged Amygdala you are literally incapable of remembering fear), and the brain of a liberal has, on average, a larger Anterior Cingulate (the part of the brain that is linked to various higher functions like reward anticipation, empathy, impulse control, and a few autonomic functions like blood pressure and heart rate). This finding has been independently replicated in numerous different studies. These studies seem to depend entirely on the questions asked and how "liberal" or "conservative" each response rates. For example, it would make sense that a "rah rah abolish private property" communist type would rate more closely with conservatives because that is an extremely emotional thing to want.
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Sep 24, 2013 13:56
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Popular Thug Drink posted:There's just something weird to me about the idea of a skeptic 'community'. Have you seen the community of non-Skeptics? A'la the Tea Party? Lord Krangdar posted:You and CommieGIR got a few of the details wrong, which isn't really a big deal but the whole situation became such a poo poo-storm already that I'd rather it be accurately recounted. Ah okay, that gives a little more insight.
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Sep 24, 2013 14:01
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Lord Krangdar posted:You and CommieGIR got a few of the details wrong, which isn't really a big deal but the whole situation became such a poo poo-storm already that I'd rather it be accurately recounted. Thank you, much much better than my straight-from-the-memory account.
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Sep 24, 2013 14:02
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Popular Thug Drink posted:There's just something weird to me about the idea of a skeptic 'community'. Things like homeopaths, energy bracelet scams, psychics preying on the ignorant, and a million other not religion issues are perfectly valid targets of activism and stuff, and skeptics groups have helped get some of that stuff off the market, and in Australia, got an energy bracelet manufacturer to pay it's customers back. A lot of them also work with the groups that are fighting creationism in schools and textbooks and stuff, and encourage grousp that do science outreach for kids. The problem is the most vocal people are fuckers like Dawkins, and have dominated the movement/group through their already established reputations and dominating personalities.
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Sep 24, 2013 14:12
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There's also Penn and Teller who are good on stuff that can be objectively measured but once they get into personal beliefs become rather loony.
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Sep 24, 2013 14:16
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muscles like this? posted:There's also Penn and Teller who are good on stuff that can be objectively measured but once they get into personal beliefs become rather loony. That was the only part of their tv series that threw me off: They had some good arguments, but then they'd take off on crazy spiels about their personal views.
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Sep 24, 2013 14:21
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computer parts posted:These studies seem to depend entirely on the questions asked and how "liberal" or "conservative" each response rates. Probably, but for every 1 Marxist who wants to abolish private property there will be like 20-40 moderate liberals with very nuanced views. I haven't done any research into the neurology of fringe ideologies like Marxism/Libertarianism but most of the (American) hardcore far-left Marxists I've met didn't hold those views after graduating from college and they're vastly overrepresented here in the SA forums in general.
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Sep 24, 2013 15:49
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Sergg posted:Probably, but for every 1 Marxist who wants to abolish private property there will be like 20-40 moderate liberals with very nuanced views. I haven't done any research into the neurology of fringe ideologies like Marxism/Libertarianism but most of the (American) hardcore far-left Marxists I've met didn't hold those views after graduating from college and they're vastly overrepresented here in the SA forums in general. Right, but what I'm saying is that "conservative" and "liberal" (by which you mean right and left respectively) are relative terms and don't necessarily correlate with (respectively) "dumb emotional brain" and "intelligent critical thinking brain".
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Sep 24, 2013 16:02
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Sergg posted:They're not baseless at all. It's well-established by social psychology researchers that you can actually induce conspiracy thought by taking away peoples' feeling of control over their lives. Essentially the experiment goes like this: you have two groups. The first group receives a test where they have control over the right/wrong answers. The second group receives a written test where the right/wrong answers are randomized, effectively removing their sense of control. They are then either given a questionnaire with questions in it pertaining to conspiracy beliefs or something even simpler like where they are asked to see patterns in various posters (kind of like a Rorschach test but half the patterns are super obvious like a bird and the other half are non-existent). This is fascinating, thank you for posting this. Do you have any links where I could read up more on this? I ask because when I had visual hallucinations they were most commonly geometric patterns projected on textured surfaces. I can also see a large tie in with the sense of having no control over your life. I was raised in an ultra fundamentalist Southern Baptist proto-cult where I had almost on contact with anyone outside the church. (They even had their own school that I attended from k-8.) Everything about my life was very very much controlled. Questioning the leaders/dogma was squarely forbidden because it was "speaking against the lord anointed" which God might decide to punish by killing you or your loved ones ala the bears and the kids story. Even thinking about anything not directly taught by the church was risky. So I had essentially no autonomy and no way to make any decisions with my life whatsoever. When my Freshman year started I entered public school for the first time and it was my first real contact with "worldly" people. I had been primed with tons and tons of disinformation about the horrors of non-christians as well as having swallowed the whole creationism myth hook line and sinker. As I started to move away from this thinking I was frequently disciplined for participating in extra-curricular activites. The more successful I was at something like ROTC or Videography, the more severe the punishment. Breaking away from all this was very very hard. In the end though I was really primed that educated authority figures are full of poo poo, and no matter how hard I try or what I do it will all be ripped away from me anyways. The information above really sheds some light on my own situation.
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Sep 24, 2013 17:03
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Prester John - I had a very similar experience as you growing up, though I didn't get into the Icke/9-11 crowd as a result. Not to go all r/atheism or whatever, but I don't think outsiders really understand just how quick to believe fundamentalists can be about conspiracies; it's a weirdly seductive mindset. Even now, years after I left that religion, little has changed; the second someone says he or she believes in Creationism and thinks that "evilution" is some kind of vast conspiracy perpetrated by mean ole evil scientists for... somethingmutteredsomething, that tells me where that person stands on a whole variety of other conspiracy theories. It's like one big package deal. I've been starting to connect the dots lately between the authoritarian power structure and total powerlessness on the one side of the equation, and inability to critically evaluate claims like birtherism and creationism on the other, but I hadn't been aware till now that anybody'd formally studied the beast. I tried to find the study referenced, but couldn't. All I found was this, which was neat in and of itself. I, too, would love to see the one(s) Sergg mentioned.
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Sep 24, 2013 20:46
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I think Sergg is talking about this 2008 study by Whitson and Galinsky. A feeling of lacking control makes people more likely to do all sorts of stuff, like see patterns in random noise, hold superstitious beliefs, and infer conspiracy in ambiguous situations.
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Sep 24, 2013 23:51
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Is anyone able to construct a succinct and coherent narrative for what Alex Jones believes? I was an idiot about 10 years ago just following 9/11 and went down that rabbit hole a bit. I watched his show online and his movies, while reading this thread I tried to remember exactly what it was he was claiming and how it was all connected. The closest I could come was that ancient secret societies (The Bilderberg Group) completely dominate the world using Hegelian political philosophy in order to stay rich and powerful and to kill us all.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:08
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Funky See Funky Do posted:Is anyone able to construct a succinct and coherent narrative for what Alex Jones believes? I was an idiot about 10 years ago just following 9/11 and went down that rabbit hole a bit. I watched his show online and his movies, while reading this thread I tried to remember exactly what it was he was claiming and how it was all connected. The closest I could come was that ancient secret societies (The Bilderberg Group) completely dominate the world using Hegelian political philosophy in order to stay rich and powerful and to kill us all. The Bilderberg Group is just the tip of the iceberg and probably take their marching orders from people even more secret and evil. The conspirators themselves are obsessed with psychedelia and the occult, especially numerology and elaborate rituals. Alex is deliberately vague about whether any of it actually works but is very angry that They are even giving it a try.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:20
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Funky See Funky Do posted:Is anyone able to construct a succinct and coherent narrative for what Alex Jones believes? I was an idiot about 10 years ago just following 9/11 and went down that rabbit hole a bit. I watched his show online and his movies, while reading this thread I tried to remember exactly what it was he was claiming and how it was all connected. The closest I could come was that ancient secret societies (The Bilderberg Group) completely dominate the world using Hegelian political philosophy in order to stay rich and powerful and to kill us all. I could do this. I'll knock it tomorrow as it will be a long effort post.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:23
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Luigi's Discount Porn Bin posted:The conspirators themselves are obsessed with psychedelia and the occult, especially numerology and elaborate rituals. I'd completely forgotten about that side of it! If anyone hasn't already seen it I highly suggest looking up Alex Jones' infiltration of Bohemian Grove. On one hand it's hilarious because they're sneaking around as though if they get caught they'll be burned alive as human sacrifices and on the other it's a little wtf because America's elite really do go to this place and participate in this wacky poo poo. Edit: Here's the whole 90 minute(!) movie he made about it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpKdSvwYsrE Funky See Funky Do fucked around with this message at 00:32 on Sep 25, 2013 |
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Sep 25, 2013 00:30
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I will probably never not find it skeevy to play this 'people who agree with my political views have been scientifically proven by science to be smarter and more emotionally stable than Others' line, with the usual attendant idea that instead of engaging with people we should seek to manipulate their psychology or even their physical brains. I'm the far left Marxist, and it's the 'moderate liberals with very nuanced views' who I think are getting disturbingly close to Serbsky Institute stuff here.Funky See Funky Do posted:The closest I could come [to understanding Jones' thinking] was that ancient secret societies (The Bilderberg Group) completely dominate the world using Hegelian political philosophy in order to stay rich and powerful and to kill us all. Wait, what? Is Hegelianism explicitly part of Jones' picture or were you just using Hegel as 'guy who thought of a totally Rational State at the End of History?'
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Sep 25, 2013 00:35
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Funky See Funky Do posted:wtf because America's elite really do go to this place and participate in this wacky poo poo. Besides the guy who got Bush II's paintings this was an interesting result from hacking Colin Powell's phone  If you can identify the other people there do their names also end with 'well'? Because Malcolm McDowell is there with Colin.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:38
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Kieselguhr Kid posted:Wait, what? Is Hegelianism explicitly part of Jones' picture or were you just using Hegel as 'guy who thought of a totally Rational State at the End of History?' The whole conspiracy crowd has a mantra of "Problem - reaction - solution" which they contribute to Hegel. I've never read him but it's almost certainly taken out of context and oversimplified. The crux of it is that the powerful create all the world's problems, so they can then be seen to solve those problems and appear powerful or use the reaction to those problems to push through any agenda they want.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:44
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I don't think that someone merely disagreeing with you on politics justifies diagnosing them with psychiatric problems. However, things like illuminati lizard men with mind control rays are so far beyond anything even approaching reality that it's pointless to try to debunk them. Trying to figure out why someone would believe something so clearly ridiculous is all that's left to talk about.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:51
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ponzicar posted:I don't think that someone merely disagreeing with you on politics justifies diagnosing them with psychiatric problems. However, things like illuminati lizard men with mind control rays are so far beyond anything even approaching reality that it's pointless to try to debunk them. Trying to figure out why someone would believe something so clearly ridiculous is all that's left to talk about. It's not so hard to figure out really. These are the same people that believe in astral projection, crystal healing, homeopathy, astrology, numerology, telekinesis and etc. Are shape shifting reptilians from another dimension really so far out when you begin with that kind of "open mindedness"? If you watch one of his talks and look at the crowd you'll see that a lot of them are Boomers that probably went through a hippy phase and got caught up in New Age spirituality.
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Sep 25, 2013 00:59
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I agree that mental illness is probably overrepresented in the conspiracy world and many people would probably be served better by treatment than argument (Prester being an example). My problem is mostly that we've gone from conspiracy theorists to the entire political sphere: 'conservative psychology is this, Marxist psychology is that' and so on. I also tend to suspect that a lot of people with nothing really wrong with them believe all sorts of stupid poo poo. People really into conspiracies are often pretty off, but people who flirt with New Age poo poo and/or a little conspiracy thinking are probably just a bit thick. Funky See Funky Do posted:The whole conspiracy crowd has a mantra of "Problem - reaction - solution" which they contribute to Hegel. I've never read him but it's almost certainly taken out of context and oversimplified. The crux of it is that the powerful create all the world's problems, so they can then be seen to solve those problems and appear powerful or use the reaction to those problems to push through any agenda they want. Okay I see. I was a little confused because when you said 'Hegelian political philosophy' I thought of Hegel's specific work of political philosophy, The Philosophy of Right. And yes it does sound like a really stupid and lovely reading of Hegel.
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Sep 25, 2013 01:13
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Anytime someone spouts out anything about the Rothschildes, I always respond "reading Protocols of the Elder of Zion recently?" because it and the entire WORLD MONEY CONTROL thing is just another version of "Jews are controlling all our money to undermine christian democracies/capitalist systems".
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Sep 25, 2013 01:39
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twistedmentat posted:the entire WORLD MONEY CONTROL thing is just another version of "Jews are controlling all our money to undermine christian democracies/capitalist systems". I'm actually curious whether Prester has any insight on anti-semitism in the conspiracy world. As far as I understand, there are more old-school, explicitly Jew-hating conspiracy theorists who attack people like Icke and Jones because 'Icke says reptiles, but it's really the Jews! Jones says New World Order, but it's really the Jews! The Jews are using them to distract us from the real culprits!'
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Sep 25, 2013 01:44
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twistedmentat posted:Anytime someone spouts out anything about the Rothschildes, I always respond "reading Protocols of the Elder of Zion recently?" because it and the entire WORLD MONEY CONTROL thing is just another version of "Jews are controlling all our money to undermine christian democracies/capitalist systems". Yeah this one goes back to the beginning of the 20th century. It literally drove the Holocaust - and people still repeat it. The John Birch Society bascially used it by saying the Soviet Union was just a creation of the Bankers (and they, the true populists, can save us) Archive.org no longer has 1934's 'The House of Rothchild' or I would link it.
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Sep 25, 2013 01:52
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Kieselguhr Kid posted:I'm actually curious whether Prester has any insight on anti-semitism in the conspiracy world. As far as I understand, there are more old-school, explicitly Jew-hating conspiracy theorists who attack people like Icke and Jones because 'Icke says reptiles, but it's really the Jews! Jones says New World Order, but it's really the Jews! The Jews are using them to distract us from the real culprits!' Yeah, the old school Conspiracy/Bircher types are pretty anti-semitic and really, really hate David Icke/Alex jones. The allegation is that Icke is talking up the lizards so he doesn't get murdered for exposing what he does about about the "Rothschild Zionists". With Jones the rumor is that the guy who owns Alex Jones' radio station is himself a Zionist, and Jones is controlled opposition. I will say that Jones says plenty of stupid poo poo about the Rothschilds, but never ever ever mentions Israel in a negative light. (This may be because Jones is probably some flavor of Southern Baptist but he keeps that under his hat.) Alot of other Conspiracy Theorist types hate the Anti-Semitic label and think it is used as a distraction to silence them. For them, they are ultra critical of the large banking families, it just so happens that many of them are Jewish. (Well, Ashkenazim, which in the Conspiracy world isn't viewed as the true descendants of Abraham, but that's a whole other can of worms.) I think some of them honestly are not Anti-Semitic, they have just bought into the world global bankers thing. At the very least they do get riled up by the actions of Goldman Sach's and watch them like a hawk. Here is an interesting Documentary about this very issue: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P2ypYcZ7qfw And here is a hilarious video of Alex Jones interviewing David de Rothschild and completely losing his poo poo: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KzKFnWpPpdM
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Sep 25, 2013 01:58
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Do we have any idea on the demographics of conspiracy theorists? Tying back to the earlier claim that being less in-control makes people more likely to believe in conspiracy theories, I wonder if socioeconomic status would also have something to do with it; that a rich person (with a lot more control as far as financial freedom) would be less likely to believe in these grand conspiracies than a person at the mercy of his paycheck.
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Sep 25, 2013 08:08
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The link between conspiracy thinking and Marxism/Class War is an interesting one - and again ties in with the Banker meme. Ted Cruz apparently just beat out Bob LaFollette's record. I've been reading John Dos Passo's 'USA Trilogy'; a kind of collage of life from 1900-1930 - and characters talk about Class Conflict, fighting Bob, the Banks, and the 'Interests'. People are aware of many social issues through experience and cultural memory - but with the Cold War and the rise of television this dissent has become manageable. The internet has changed this dynamic, but generally the signal/noise ratio is awful and people like Alex Jones (intentionally) make the problem worse.
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Sep 25, 2013 15:03
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An old coworker of mine is an insufferable truther. He's the type who was pretty liberal and really hated Bush. It eventually turned that he hated Bush so much that he believed the administration was full of supervillains who orchestrated the attacks so, like, Haliburton could make money in Iraq. He keeps posting stuff from that "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth" site (I can't believe any experienced architects/engineers would be that dense, but I know that many of them are libertarians). Today he posted this link, with the comment "Thanks Canada" It also seems he's gone off more and more into Ron Paul land. He posted about how some tax-evading sovereign citizen leader was his new hero. Also that evolution was "bunk", and that he now only believes in Christ. I don't know what the hell happened. I think he's frustrated that his entertainment industry aspirations haven't panned out.
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Sep 25, 2013 18:31
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I think that sometimes people can get sucked into conspiracy narratives because people outside the power structure are free to tell the truth. Most of Ron Paul's popularity can be traced back to his performance in the '08 debates, when he explained the concept of blowback to a national audience. A lot of people had simply never been exposed to any meaningful critique of US foreign policy and it blew them away. But Ron Paul isn't right about blowback because of his libertarian powers of analysis. He's right because it's easy to tell the truth when you don't have to worry about pissing off the power structure. Peter Schiff was right about the housing bubble not because his supply-side ideology gave him additional insight, he was right because he didn't have to worry about fitting in with the pundit crowd so he could just take a fat poo poo of truth on the table and walk away. A little honesty goes a long way in this world of talking points and media narratives, and people new to it are prone to thinking that because you're right about one thing, you're right about others. It's just like the doc posted above where a young Alex Jones is talking about David Icke: He gets a lot of stuff right and discredits himself at the end with a wild theory. Alex Jones says that about David Icke, Ron Paul would say it about Jones, and Noam Chomsky would (and does) say it about Paul. And Chomsky actually has the goods, but he doesn't have easy answers because there are none.
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Sep 25, 2013 19:39
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AlliedBiscuit posted:An old coworker of mine is an insufferable truther. He's the type who was pretty liberal and really hated Bush. It eventually turned that he hated Bush so much that he believed the administration was full of supervillains who orchestrated the attacks so, like, Haliburton could make money in Iraq. He keeps posting stuff from that "Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth" site (I can't believe any experienced architects/engineers would be that dense, but I know that many of them are libertarians). Today he posted this link, with the comment "Thanks Canada" My brother sort of evolved like that I guess. I could never tell if he just "goes with what's hip" or not "(he was a t-shirt Obama fan in 2008 and switched to internet Libertarianism when it started to take off). He tells me he's always believed what he believed now, so I'm guessing he started with Trutherism and just became more and more obsessive to the point where it's uncomfortable to have conversations with him. But the class analysis makes sense as he's been going to school on and off again for about ten years and has been working at the same tech-support job for about the same time. All the while he's been having relationship troubles and identity crises and now that he has his conspiracies, he has something solid to hold on to that makes him feel... useful I guess? He once spent an entire day a while back texting my Mom about his Syria conspiracies while she was in the hospital and he never gets the hint that his constant sprouting off about things he doesn't know isn't appealing.
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Sep 25, 2013 20:12
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