9/11 Trutherism and what I just can't figure out about the conspiracy crowd

The Something Awful Forums > Discussion > Debate & Discussion > 9/11 Trutherism and what I just can't figure out about the conspiracy crowd

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Ztarlit_Sky posted:

May as well throw in a bit of strangeness I encountered myself.

A friend of mine and friend of his once basically told me that the moon landing footage is fake. Flag blowing, shadows, etc. I couldn't really refute it well since I had no idea that people even thought this and what those claims were.

However, the moon landing actually happened.
Yes, the moon landing happened, it's specifically the original (and really stunning) footage you see that's faked to deceive people.

I have no idea how you arrive at that kind of result. My best guess is that due to their background, they'd have an understanding of the Physics and that going to the moon is completely plausible. I don't know how the other part figures into this however.

This sounds like a fallback position to me. The most persuasive-sounding arguments for the moon landing being faked are all about "inconsistencies" in the footage, but the strongest arguments for it being real sidestep all that and point to things like the reflector we left up there, and the fact that thousands of people watched the lander via telescope. So if someone got suckered in with flagchat, and then got confronted with all the other evidence, it would be pretty natural to fall back on "well, it happened, but the footage itself was fake!" as a way to save face.

To be clear, I don't think any of the "fake footage" arguments make sense, but the only way to disprove them would be to go to the moon and make a video showing that's how flags and jumping and everything would work, but that obviously didn't convince these people the last time we did it.

# ¿ Jul 23, 2014 13:27

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 13:37

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

nomemories posted:

What you can't figure out is we see the world as it is

Please elaborate!

# ¿ Jan 11, 2015 18:35

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

This seems like the right thread to ask: does anyone have any reliable info on the Plutonomy Memos? I saw them mentioned in a different thread. They're supposedly a series of memos by Citigroup to wealthy clients about rising income inequality and the "new managerial aristocracy" that will result. It's almost textbook in its cartoonishness, but then again so are all the real leaked internal memos from big banks. It seems purpose-built to bypass the skepticism of leftists by playing to our preconceptions, and it's almost impossible to find info on it from reputable sources. Allegedly that's because Citi issues legal threats and takedown notices every time it pops up, but being the Shocking Truth They Don't Want You to Know About isn't exactly a mark of veracity.

# ¿ Mar 19, 2015 15:54

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

What the gently caress do you need half a Shoah's worth of run time to talk about anyway? Is there anything beyond "jet fuel can't melt steel beams?" Just give us a bullet point list of the basic arguments, maybe then we can have a discussion.

# ¿ Aug 27, 2015 19:41

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Someone linked this over in the pseudoscience thread, but it fits in perfectly here too: The ConspiraSea cruise! Yes, that's the real name, and it appears to be a real thing. Guest speakers include a bunch of loving nutjobs. The main name that jumped out at me is Andrew Wakefield, of fake vaccine study fame.

If you're playing the conspiracy theory drinking game, go ahead and call the paramedics now.

quote:

Our "Conspira-Sea Cruise and Seminar-at-Sea" takes place right on our luxury cruise ship during our seven-day cruise, in conference rooms on the ship, and during our port calls in Mexico.

During this incredible, mind-blowing, truth-telling, spiritually enriching event, we will do our best to uncover the truth about things conspiratorial, including:

GMOs, Monsanto, bee colony collapse, ecology, global warming, climate change, fracking, HIV, autism, big pharma, medical suppression, vaccinations, flouridation, political corruption, government corruption, forbidden archeology, forbidden religion, Federal Reserve, truth about money, World Bank, IRS, strawman, property title, admiralty law, martial law, Bohemian Grove, Skull and Bones, JFK, cover-ups, September 11, Star Wars agenda, nuclear plants, chemtrails, HAARP, crop circles, IRS, MK-Ultra, Fukashima, NASA, NSA, Bilderbergs, sustainability, military industrial complex, pentagon, Waco, Malaysia 370, Pan Am 103, TWA 800, Gulf Oil Spill, Halliburton, Obama, Ruby Ridge, OK City, Vatican, New World Order, false flags, Montauk, privacy, surveillance, Area 51, Dulce, Project Rainbow, Nazi Bell, Vrill, U.S.S. Eldridge, Iron Mountain, psyops, population mangement, subliminal ads, Nibiru / Planet X, Cointel Pro, technology suppression, entity possession, electoral fraud, identity chips, 2nd amendment, and so much more.

Plus we will explore how to heal ourselves and others, and to attain self-mastery and greater integrity through:

Spirituality, meditation, affirmation, prayer, yoga, manifestation, self-development, holistic health, alternative lifestyles, organic foods, healthy living, wellness, self-sufficiency, prosperity, sustainability, freedom, human rights, discernment, wisdom, awakening, longevity, inner guidance, and inner peace.

The purpose of this cruise is NOT about being a victim of conspiracies. It is about taking back our power from corrupt and greedy institutions, attaining true self-authority, and realizing our genuine Self behind the masks. It is about discovering the truth, taking command of our lives, and attaining genuine inner realization.

This cruise will not only uncover the lies. It will show us the truth. As we dispell the darkness, and shine the light of wisdom, we enter the true light of consciousness.

And we are set free.

ALL are welcome to discover the real truth, together.

# ¿ Sep 1, 2015 16:09

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

I could call you names and wait for you to call me names, but gently caress it, let's do this. What 9/11 references in Back to the Future are you talking about, and why would someone put them there?

# ¿ Sep 16, 2015 00:10

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Zombie Boat posted:

I'm still like forty pages back in this thread but I saw a story last week about a "professor" at Phoenix university getting a paper published about CERN opening portals and destroying Earth blah blah blah. Anyhow, I emailed him to tell him he was on to something. He sent me a huge email with unpublished papers he's written.

I know the answer is "just post" but would you guys like to read it? I'll get an effort post going after work if so.

This sounds delightful. If there's non-conspiracy wackiness in there, don't forget about the pseudoscience thread.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 13:43

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Zombie Boat posted:

In other words, what CERN is doing should allow CERN to destroy and create universes.

CERN plans to start capturing anti-matter (dark matter)

the black holes generated by CERN could attach to (by captured by) our earth, the moon, the sun, etc.

CERN openly admits wanting to open the portals to other universes and dimensions, including non-physical dimensions. Some scientists are saying that there has already been a portal opened to other non-physical world dimensions for a millionth of a second, and that CERN’s job is to generate enough power and energy to keep those portals open to other dimensions for longer than a micro-second.

In other words, if you are familiar with quantum physics, which deals with the behavior of atoms and subatomic particles, subatomic particles act one way when not being observed by a researcher and they act totally different when observed by a researcher…this is called the observer effect.

I eagerly await these pdfs.

# ¿ Sep 29, 2015 16:54

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

QuarkJets posted:

On average, yes. But explosions tend to create voids

Explosions aren't known for being low-pressure environments.

# ¿ Oct 30, 2015 13:44

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

e_angst posted:

Well, the Romans did crucify a whole lot of errant preachers around Judea in that time, mostly because so many of them were basically preaching this Jewish eschatology about how the messiah was either them or he was coming back and he was going to kick the poo poo out of these occupying Romans who we really, really hate. They were basically a byproduct of the general pissed-off revolutionary spirit in an occupied state. I'm trying to find sources, but I remember my professor of early Christian history talking about how there was this guy referred to as The Egyptian who raised up a congregation/army of several thousand in the span of a few months of preaching and marched into Jerusalem only to get crucified pretty much on the spot.

While searching for references to The Egyptian, I did find the best evidence of a historical Jesus, which is a passing mention by Josephus in his Antiquities 18: Chapter 3. Josephus was basically the best historian of the area at the time, and covered a lot of poo poo. Unfortunately, a few hundred years later a priest found one of the copies of his work and proceeded to add some extra stuff to his passing reference to Jesus and make it sound like Josephus realized Jesus was Christ, so now a lot of historical-Jesus deniers try to claim that the entire thing was forged and Josephus didn't reference Jesus at all (this despite the fact that at least 2 other copies of the same text by Josephus, without the priest's additions, have been found and they do contain the basic reference).

There's also a bit in Josephus' work that talks about Jesus' brother James IIRC, but that isn't usually stressed by Christians on account of the "Jesus had a brother" thing.

# ¿ Nov 23, 2015 23:37

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Glad you're back, PJ. Your posts are always enlightening.

How well do the conflicting theories get along in conspiracy circles? Like, do the LaRouche followers fight with the Icke followers? Do the various strains of Trutherism (nanothermite vs space lasers vs whatever) squabble with each other?

# ¿ Jan 26, 2016 18:02

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

I think there's a rivalry going between Alex Jones and David Icke, where the followers of one accuse the other of being a plant.

# ¿ Jun 15, 2016 13:34

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Shbobdb posted:

But that's the way the rest of the world works, counterculture anecdotes aside.

Some kind of "world order," perhaps?

# ¿ Apr 5, 2017 02:43

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

smoke sumthin bitch posted:

some vaccines are proven to lower IQs and cause autism

cite sumthin bitch

quote:

There was this article on huffington post

This does not count.

# ¿ Apr 16, 2017 14:10

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Jungian craziness is so refreshing after endless pages of Jonesian craziness. Thanks, Deep Thought.

Deep Thought posted:

Even little things that register mentally can raise the chances of an encounter, that seems like one of the principles behind TV advertising.

It's just priming, friend. It doesn't make the encounters more likely, it makes you more likely to notice them. "You aren't a perfectly rational outside observer" is one of the key insights most conspiracy theorists lack, probably second in importance only to "there isn't an evil group in charge of things, there's nobody in charge of things."

# ¿ Apr 18, 2017 13:56

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

smoke sumthin bitch posted:

i shouldn't of said deep state, globalist was the appropriate term.

How does this help at all? You're just switching out one undefined group of boogeymen for a different, vaguely Jewish undefined group of boogeymen.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2017 03:09

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

I'm pretty sure the guy who sells fake medicine by exploiting men's insecurity in their masculinity pretty openly picked a side on the "lying business elites vs common people" war, but it's not the side ssb thinks.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2017 16:55

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

It's the internet equivalent of a bunch of newspaper clippings with colored string connecting them.

# ¿ Apr 20, 2017 20:45

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

smoke sumthin bitch posted:

yeah ok 1 in 10 male frogs becomes a lady frog but no worries.

Wait, I thought it was supposed to be making them gay. What?

# ¿ Apr 23, 2017 19:16

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Tias posted:

Flouride is literally one of the safest and most beneficial substances we put into our bodies on the reg, as verified by anyone with an actual education who cares to check the data, but okay, being told what to believe by a loving scam artist is probably easier.

The frustrating thing is, yes, fluorides* can be harmful in high doses, but (1) that's true of literally any chemical, and (2) when it gets too high, water treatment plants remove some from the water.

*Also, you know, there's no one chemical called "fluoride." It's an ion, so it's always just one part of a bigger chemical. So you have a big class of chemicals that range from benign (sodium fluorophosphate) to preposterously dangerous (HF).

# ¿ Apr 24, 2017 13:44

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Shbobdb posted:

Most of the fluoride we use in water is from aluminum processing. It's the waste run off.

Do you think that makes it ritually unclean or something?

# ¿ Apr 24, 2017 16:31

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

smoke sumthin bitch posted:

About half the population has below average intelligence and very poor critical thinking skills. Some of them will flock to conspiratorial nonsense, some of them will always buy into the propaganda, some will be apolitical. The conspiracists tend to be more vocal about their beliefs thats all . Dosent change the fact that government and state actors lie and try to hide poo poo from us constantly. Its just as crazy to believe that no conspiracy ever happened then its crazy to believe in all of them.

Fortunately, the people who argue against conspiracy theorists aren't saying that conspiracies never happen, so that's not really a concern.

# ¿ Jun 23, 2017 14:31

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Sometimes it's sympathetic magic, depending on how crazy the person you're talking to is.

# ¿ Jun 30, 2017 14:49

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

The hatred of the British sounds LaRouche-esque, but it's not obsessive enough to be pure strain. Hints of other stuff in there.

# ¿ Jul 7, 2017 22:35

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

That's Ancient Aliens Debunked, and the twist would be a brilliant move if it were done to prove a point. If the idea were to teach the viewer that being skeptical about things you don't already believe doesn't make you immune to bias and error, you couldn't come up with a better premise. But no, Chris White is completely sincere about it, which really just makes the point all the stronger.

Also when I was making sure I remembered the title right, I found the IMDB reviews!

Well done! Bravo! (10/10) posted:

The delivery of the audio speech is quite boring, honestly, but the data and debunking are on point, which is what matters in this age of countering so much B.S.

The diagrams and pictures of ancient manuscripts are very well thought-out and the author's writing in the script reads like a quality research paper.

Well done, Sir, I salute you!

Keep up the good debunking work, may we ever seek the truth, though it is most often shrouded.

~ Everett from Seattle, Washington, USA

oops, let the mask slip a little there at the end, Everett.

Waste of time. (1/10) posted:

Garbage. You cannot debunk Ancient Aliens, all you can do is disagree with them & only believe the mainstream theories that have been accepted for years, which is bullshit. Of course AA wants you to believe everything is Aliens, but anyone with half a brain can figure out what to take them serious on, and what not to. In many episodes,you can absolutely see there was Alien intervention, it's obvious, unless you are in denial. Not because they said so, but because there was real evidence long before AA existed. It must take someone with no life whatsoever, to waste time making this debunking film. These so called filmmakers are not intelligent. Get a life.

Meanwhile, Phil here wants nothing to do with masks.

# ¿ Jul 12, 2017 12:41

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

raminasi posted:

I don't think it's obvious that there'd have been enough public support for that war absent Bush's inflated approval rating generally and all the people pissed at Saddam for doing 9/11 specifically.

I think that's my favorite thing about the inside job hypothesis: if Bush was inventing a terrorist attack so he could go after Saddam, he framed the wrong damned country. A bunch of Afghanistan-trained Saudis doing the attack doesn't give us any reason to invade Iraq, to the point that they had to do the whole WMD song and dance that still didn't get a bunch of allies on board. If he was the mastermind, he loving sucked at it.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2017 12:50

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Toothy McBeard posted:

You are all a bunch of neck beard tin foil hats.
The government has no reason to lie to us about this, and we already got the bastard who did this deed.
If you believe anything but the official story, you are not better than those truther losers.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYUYya6bPGw&t=109s

Don't let these truthers shake your deeply held convictions about what you know to be true.

Your mask is slipping, Troothy! You're supposed to be a Concerned Friend looking for help debunking this, remember? Stay in character.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2017 14:45

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

I actually remember some proto-truther stuff I heard in the time before Loose Change and its ilk really solidified the basic theories. They were around-the-edges conspiracies, rather than ones that tried to say the main "guys hijack planes and crash them into buildings" concept was wrong. People who thought Flight 93 was shot down and the passenger revolt was a cover story, people who thought some other group like the Northern Alliance did the attack and framed al-Qaeda to get us to take out the Taliban, etc.

# ¿ Jul 26, 2017 22:40

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Oh, this seems healthy.

-A Trump fan

# ¿ Dec 12, 2017 19:18

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Was Leuchter the one who made a big stink about not fingering any zyklon b residue in the showers like 50 years later or something?

# ¿ Dec 15, 2017 18:54

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

I don't think I've ever heard Holocaust denial from anyone who wasn't also pushing the "Hitler had some good ideas" line. I'll give you that on some "no one actually got hurt on 9/11" flavors of truther, maybe, but not with this.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2017 23:28

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Tias posted:

Er.. I'm an AA member and didn't become a born-again christian though I did become clean and sober. Maybe don't believe everything you hear?

Also, AA in US is really dumb and evangelical in many states, so I'd also caution you not to judge a thing based on what Americans do with it.

I'm pretty sure it was founded in America. If it's different in your country, it's because you cleaned it up.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2017 14:59

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Polygynous posted:

well I'm sold

Toblerone Triangular has returned, as the prophecy foretold!

Goon Danton fucked around with this message at 16:05 on Dec 22, 2017

# ¿ Dec 22, 2017 16:00

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

My apartment door was hosed up when I woke up this morning. Either Art Bell's ghost tried to break in, or he was the only man keeping the burglar ghosts at bay this whole time.

# ¿ Apr 19, 2018 14:59

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

Moose-Alini posted:

Not sure about the intentionally getting inner cities hooked on crack, but isn't it verified that the CIA spent decades smuggling cocaine into American, as late as a decade ago? Propping up puppets in Haiti and South American countries as narco-states for their purposes in the 80s and 90s.

It was one aspect of Iran-Contra, for one thing.

# ¿ Apr 25, 2018 18:49

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# ¿ May 3, 2024 13:37

Goon Danton: May 24, 2012; Don't forget to show my shitposts to the people. They're well worth seeing.

OwlFancier posted:

I realise this is the conspiracy thread but I promise you I am not a replicant and you don't need to try to crash my logic core.

It works on Bill and Ted rules. Booking it is a nightmare.

# ¿ Apr 26, 2018 20:05

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