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I don't think I would ever do a roux jambalaya, if only because not needing to make roux is a good reason to cook jambalaya in the first place. Jambalaya has a really good effort:reward ratio, why mess with that? Also seems like it'd be carb overload with both flour and rice? I guess you could do a rich man's jambalaya and have more meat & veg, less rice. Again that just brings down the PER. I do brown the chicken in a separate pan, then deglaze it with some beer and scrape that whole mess into the main pot.
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Nov 19, 2019 01:52
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That Works posted:I'll double check but I haven't seen it in Prudhomme, Wilson's or my 1901-era Picayune cookbooks either. How many recipes in the 1901 cookbook use a cajun roux? Because apparently the dark roux was a fairly recent invention at that point? Or at least there aren't written references to it past the late 1880s. Though maybe cajuns had been making dark roux since shortly after they got booted out of Canada and just never wrote anything down. KitConstantine posted:Also, the carbs are kinda the point. The Cajun version especially is a poor man's meal, it's supposed to fill you up cheap. Oh yeah for sure but I don't work on a farm. My critiques were strictly personal for why I wasn't sold on it -- I'd eat it up if given some, but don't think I'll make it that way myself.
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Nov 19, 2019 15:17
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I'm pretty sure my mom has that book in her collection too, and I've never seen her cook anything out of it because that title is 100% accurate. That said, I made shrimp etouffee a few weeks ago and I put in a fair bit more butter than my normal, because I thought it was gonna be a bigger quantity than it turned out to be. It was pretty drat good.
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Apr 14, 2020 16:57
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Phil Moscowitz posted:We’ll see how tomorrow goes. These suckas are going in it. <David Attenborough voiceover> The Devonian Era, when the largest arthropods to ever exist on earth swam in the seas. Here you see a reconstruction of Imperious Ungustatis, a shrimp the size of a schoolbus. Shooting Blanks posted:Oddly enough I just ran into this the first time recently. Is there a solution, or is it simply a matter of using the jar fast enough/making a point of stirring it every day? Leave the jar on its side and the solids are much easier to break up / stir.
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Aug 5, 2020 05:09
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The_Doctor posted:
Finishing jambalaya in the oven is pretty normal, the even heat means it cooks the rice faster and doesn't scorch the bottom. But that's for the normal way to cook jambalaya where you put dry rice into the pot uncooked. I mean the rest of that is all hosed up in so many ways, including overcooking the gently caress out of seafood (broil cod and then boil it with shrimp?) and turning jambalaya into some sort of unholy seafood soup. But the baked part is the least weird. I can even see that as being good to brown the rice a bit and add some flavor to that weak-rear end vegetarian version.
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Sep 6, 2020 20:47
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Discussion Quorum posted:I'm not sure I've ever had fish of any sort in jambalaya. Shellfish (ok crustaceans), sure, but is like redfish jambalaya a thing? Seafood paella with mackerel is a thing in spain. So you could. Dunno how often it was done historically, seems more likely in a creole jambalaya. You want a fish with stronger flavor that holds up to the rest of the jambalaya, so probably not redfish. I don't know which gulf fish would be best for that. eke out posted:yeah i've never had it in jambalaya, just alongside or on top of it. The recipes for spanish mackerel paella are often using smoked fish, so you flake it in at the very end. As for why the star trek cookbook is doing awful such things to innocent fish, I can only assume that the authors are from the midwest.
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Sep 7, 2020 03:18
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Every thanksgiving it's become a tradition that my mom makes a turkey, the whole family demolishes it over the next 3 days, and then we do a big gumbo. This year I've got no turkey, no visit to mom, and no family to eat with. But I'm still having my gumbo god drat it!   I've been saving up shrimp stock in the freezer from the last several times I did shrimp things. When you don't have shrimp heads you can only make like a cup of shrimp stock at a time, so you gotta prepare ahead.
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Nov 25, 2020 23:20
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really queer Christmas posted:That top picture makes it look like red beans and rice. Looks quite good, even if adding tomatoes does mean you will not be allowed into heaven. The red bits are red pepper. I did add a small glob of tomato paste, but I think the color of the picture is my phone punching it up rather than actually looking that red. It did turn out thick as hell tho, I probably could have opened another container of stock to get the consistency more soup-like. But what the heck. I like thick. I'm not one to say, but I believe tomato would be traditionally accepted for a seafood gumbo with okra? In which case I have a bastard half-breed gumbo since I have okra in my roux-based gumbo. And then I put filé on while serving, because I like the taste of filé. So does okra, roux, and filé make me a heretic? Or just a weirdo who eats gumbo you can cut with a knife? The ham I definitely admit is more red beans and rice-y, but with no bird carcass I was kinda just grabbing whatever felt good. I'll do red beans and rice (didn't miss her) with the rest of the ham, that's one of my staples in the winter.
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Nov 30, 2020 06:38
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2 methods for baked roux: 1. Put your 50/50 flour & fat in a oven safe pot or pan and bake at 350 for 2-2.5 hours, stir every 30 minutes. You can also crank the oven to 400 and stir more often for shorter 1-1.5 hours cook time. 2. Spread dry flour in a large skillet and put in the oven at 425 for 30-45 minutes. The toasted flour tastes the same as a normal roux. Also you can completely omit the oil that you'd normally use for the roux, or replace with a smaller amount of more flavorful fat like butter. Method 1 has never seemed like a great deal to me, unless you were maybe also using the oven for something else at the same time. Yay you don't have to constantly stir, but now it takes hours. Method 2 seems very intriguing but I've never tried it. Anyways people exaggerate how constantly you have to stir stovetop roux. If you cook your roux at medium heat and have time to drink a beer meanwhile, you can totally leave it alone for a minute or two. I quickly alternate between stirring and chopping veggies and it comes out fine. OTOH my mom does roux with the burner at like 9 because she learned in new orleans with lessons from a professional chef, and I guess pros don't have time to sit around. You gotta stir constantly but it's done in under 5 minutes. 5 very exciting minutes.
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Dec 2, 2020 15:45
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I've very much converted to adding trinity to the roux when it's about done and sauteing the veg in roux since I learned about it ITT. Also, a thing I found a while back but never mentioned here is that rice flour worked pretty well as a roux. I was cooking for someone with celiac and the rice flour was the thing I found that I knew was safe. While it was in progress I was worried that is was gonna be useless because the roux seemed thinner and more liquid than a flour one, but in the finished pot it thickened and the oil didn't separate. So for anyone that can't have gluten, you can still have gumbo!
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Dec 3, 2020 17:36
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use one can of beans, they're pre-cooked and will start to fall apart into bean-glue way faster than the dry beans. (in fact don't add them too early)Kaiser Schnitzel posted:If you cook them long enough they start to sort of melt, and for some reason the next day they are always creamier and better. I guess the starch leaches out and sets up? I think it's this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retrogradation_(starch) Fresh off the stove it's been at a temperature that's above the starch gelatinizing limit, so all the starch molecules are melted disassociated soup. Then when it cools off it solidifies, and when you reheat leftovers you're only heating it up to the intermediate temperature where it's melted but still gelatinized.
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Dec 18, 2020 04:36
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archive.org has the site in full, so it's not gone forever (though browsing sites in the wayback machine does suck)
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Feb 15, 2021 18:41
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eke out posted:haha yep this is the exact video i was thinking of, it's actually wilder than i remember since he just dumps more flour into the already-dirty oil After I got introduced to creole daube ITT, my method is to fry the beef in a bunch of oil to sear the outside, then use that same oil to make roux. The lesson learned is that small amounts of burnt stuff in your roux, like any meat or fat bits that stuck to the pan, is fine. At least if you're doing roux on medium heat. I think it's only if a bunch of the flour starts burning that it gets ruined. neogeo0823 posted:Do you have any butchers around that are still open? See if they have any fat, or rendered lard/tallow/schmaltz. The last time I made gumbo, I went looking for pork fat to make lard. Couldn't find any, but found beef fat at $2/lb, so bought like $6 of that and made tallow. I got enough to make the dish and has enough left to cool into little butter-stick-like bars for regular cooking. Super easy to render down, to. Just takes some time. So one thing I have read is that the beef & pork fat of our current animals is recognizably different from that 50-100 years ago. The grain feeding, and especially all the corn, means their fat has a very different composition, at like the molecular level, and doesn't always react the same. If you've done stuff with your rendered fat and it worked then it's obviously fine for those things, but it may not always work for old recipes that actually call for beef tallow. (Like, one interesting effect is that normal store bacon doesn't build season on cast iron pans anymore. Literally doesn't have enough of the right fat molecules to polymerize anymore.)
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Feb 21, 2021 03:10
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fish courtboullion (using cod) Not the recipe linked in the OP though. Googled around for stuff, came across the idea of courtboullion with a more cajun take that start with a roux, use that to make a super thick sauce, and then semi-poach the fish on top of that in the oven. Turns out that works really well with cod, pollack, and other fish that's easy to overcook. I'm not a fan of poaching fish normally, but this way the sauce is so thick that the fish sort of floats on top and still gets a bit of bake action. It's super-good. Vague recipe: 1.5 lbs fish 2 onions 3-4 stalks celery 1 large green pepper 2-3 cloves garlic 1 can diced tomato 1 cup seafood or chicken stock 1 lemon prep fish a few hours ahead: pat dry with paper towel, season w/ old bay & black pepper preheat oven 300 make light cajun roux from 1/2 cup flour add & saute veggies, add seasoning: thyme, oregano minced garlic 1/4 tsp white pepper 1/8 tsp cayenne pepper add diced tomato & stock, until consistency is liquid but still very thick simmer a few minutes to come together lay fish on top, put some thin lemon slices on fish put in oven for approx 12-15min squeeze remainder lemon over when done very easy 1 pan dinner
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May 13, 2021 02:53
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Living in the northeast, I used the nationally-available Gaspar's sausage "linguica" and "chourico" for many years in gumbo and jambalayas. Then the grocery started carrying a decent andouille that wasn't $10 for a drat sausage like d'artagnan and I've never bought them again. It works, but isn't amazing, and neither one is really authentic to their name. They're both fast-cured, and a little bit smoky (artificial I'm sure). If that's what you've got I'd use just the linguica. The chorizo is quite hot and kinda one-dimensional, better for jambalaya.
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Aug 3, 2021 04:13
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I personally like "small red beans" for red beans & rice. They cook a bit faster and are less dense than kidneys. Means you don't have to cook for ages to get some nice soft beans. Should be able to get them dried pretty much anywhere, look in the hispanic section for the goya dry beans. Also my RB&R top tip: also get 1 can of small red beans, drain & add to the pot once everything is simmering. Canned beans are already pre-cooked, so they turn into the smooth bean-mush way faster. It's a cheat to get creamy beans without cooking for ages.
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Nov 30, 2021 23:02
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You can use butter for roux. Regular butter's smoke point is 150C, which is about the same temperature as the maillard reaction and lower than caramelization. So the butter is definitely going to burn. OTOH some people like the taste of brown butter. It's got some bitter flavors, but the overall effect is not really different than the stuff that's happening with the flour. But you're upping the ante. It goes bad much faster than the flour. Really, if you have any concerns at all about loving up your food, vegetable oil is so much easier than anything else. It doesn't stick to the pan at all, it's easier to keep moving, it's much harder to gently caress up. And if you want to turn the heat up so that it takes less than 30 minutes you can easily do so without smoking the oil. Personally I would only do butter for a medium creole style roux. Less tricky, and since you need way less roux per volume of liquid to do the thickening it's not an insane amount of butter. (Alternately: clarified butter / ghee has a much higher smoke temperature, if you really insist on putting 1/2 pound of saturated fat in your gumbo.)
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Mar 30, 2022 03:53
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I. M. Gei posted:Can I split the diff and do 1/2 vegetable oil and 1/2 butter? Canola oil is great. That's what I use. Sorry, I'm one of the idiots who uses "vegetable" oil as a generic name and usually means canola for what's actually in the bottle. (Though TBQH I really don't taste much difference between canola, corn, and soy oil myself. At least, not once it's used to cook something.) Any refined cooking oil is fine, pick whichever you like best. The main thing is you want to use a refined oil, not the ultra-fancy cold pressed whatever. It's the process of refining that gives most of the heat resistance. Like, you can use a light cooking olive oil to fry or make a roux. But not the extra virgin.
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Mar 30, 2022 14:09
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That Works posted:Mmm yeah that looks legit. I have the same pot so its very deja vu here. lmao I also have one of those misens, my mom gave me one for christmas God drat a good dutch oven is like a cheat code for half the stuff I make, I can't believe what I've been missing. One of the first things I did with it was a Daube, was fantastic. That continues to be one of the best things I've picked up ITT.    Also perfected the recipe for a daube with roux. Here's the tl;dr: 1. browned the beef 2. saute 1/3rd of veg in the beef fat from step 1 3. deglaze that and set veg aside 4. make roux (scant 1c flout + 3/4c oil) 5. saute rest of veg in roux 6. seasoning, diced tomato 7. lay roast on top, put in oven for N hours 8. when it's getting done, put the veg from step 3 in
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May 9, 2022 23:03
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I. M. Gei posted:I gotta start making gumbo out of something other than seafood. Do you do a turkey at thanksgiving? Gumbo from a turkey carcass is pretty much tied with t-giving dinner itself in my books.
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Aug 7, 2022 00:54
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Dik Hz posted:Sorry for only looking at this thread once a month, but do you have a link or recipe on how to do this? How to turn the leftover turkey into stock? Or how to make the stock into gumbo?
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Aug 22, 2022 03:17
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I was the one who reported on the roux, and my updated procedure is at the top of this page. (I don't go straight from browning meat to making roux anymore, because a proper dutch oven has made the sear work better without a ton of oil.) I think it's loving fantastic with roux, but one big reason is I use 2x the veggies as the average recipe and that's a lot of water. Plus a big roast exudes a fair amount of liquid as it cooks. The roux keeps it from being too sloppy. So it goes from pic 2 where the sauce is so thick the roast can lie on top of it, to pic 3 where it's perfect. So my suggestion for anyone who wants to follow my roux outline is to get real generous with veg, the sauce will support it.
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Sep 5, 2022 14:17
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Bluedeanie posted:My beloved fiance has recently learned that gluten betrays her. What alternative flours can I use to make a dark roux for my gumbo that will not make a super noticable change in flavor or texture? I worry sorghum would be too sweet. I have used pure rice flour for someone with severe celiac. It worked pretty well. I think any gluten-free blend would be better -- they mix up stuff to mimic wheat pretty closely. The universal thing about any gluten-free flour seems to be that you have to keep it a shade lighter than the full dark-red cajun max roux. So your gumbo will be slightly paler than normal. The thing to avoid is an almond flour or any blend that has a lot of nut flours.
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Oct 21, 2022 19:26
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That Works posted:Good time to remind folks they can buy and grow their own bay bushes at home! My mom has one that was a big disappointment -- the leaves have almost no aromatics in them. You'd have to use a whole branch just for a pot of rice. She thinks it must be a variety made for decorative planting or something. She didn't get it from the internet, but from a local place. Though the tag did claim it was herbal. So if anyone is interested in this make sure to double check. eke out posted:yeah it's kinda like buying some ancient jar of McCormick Bay Leaves where they're brown and papery and you're like "is this literally adding any flavor at all i can't tell" The aromatics in bay leaves slowly vaporize over time, so yeah that and tarragon are the things you toss after a year or two if you haven't used them.
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Mar 26, 2023 16:52
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And that's not even something like gumbo where you can say a half-dozen other groups of people have an equal claim on the word and their own unique variation on the concept. Speaking of which, not exactly cajun / creole, but I made this Okra and Shrimp thing that is also called "gumbo" just last week. (Minus the ham hock part, because I ain't got the time or the ham hock.) Pretty good, I really wanted something with a bunch of okra. One thumb up, new orleans gumbo remains superior. Also I can't imagine getting jambalaya in a restaurant even if it's good. A jambalaya is 1) a pretty cheap dish and 2) maybe the easiest thing ITT to make. Seafood paella? Sure, in a restaurant you'll hopefully get real saffron and a bunch of different seafood bits.
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Aug 25, 2023 00:31
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Phil Moscowitz posted:Gumbo megapost gat drat  Phil Moscowitz posted:This is basically the same whether you use fish bones, shrimp heads/shells, crawfish heads/shells, crab shells, lobster shells, whatever. You can mix and match too. Seafood stock is a bit more delicate (unless you're using crawfish heads from a boil, which are strong). So probably stick to the lighter vegetables here. Notes for fellow posters who live in The North / away from the coast and your grocery only carries fresh or frozen headless shrimp: these suck for making stock. If you follow Phil's excellent stock directions using nothing but headless shrimp shells, you will be very disappointed! It will be water with a hint of shrimp flavor. Here is what I do: 1. peel the shrimp, shrimp into a bowl and shells into a smallish saucepan 2. tamp down the shells a bit, add a bit more than 1 cup water per original pound of shrimp. just enough to cover them. 3. put some vegetable bits and spices in 4. bring to boil, simmer for about ~30 minutes, stir the shells around once or twice during. Cooking for 1.5 hours is pointless: you're not gonna extract anything extra from a longer simmer because there's nothing there to extract. I happen to be making shrimp today, so here's a picture:   This is... well TBQH it's still shrimp-flavored water, but at least it's strongly shrimp-flavored. Note the lack of any oils on the top like a real stock should have. The head of a crustacean is where it keeps all the yummy fats and stuff that cooks out to make a thick, rich stock like in Phil's picture. Large shells of a crab or crawfish will have a decent amount of meat stuck to it. Shrimp shells, not so much. The shell itself is pretty inert, so I'm just cooking out the tiny bit of flavor in the legs and tail. Is this worth it? IMO yes, it's at least quick and low-effort. Otherwise I would just throw these shells away, they're not worth saving in the freezer or whatever. This plus a box of chicken stock makes a good enough gumbo when you don't have better stock. You can also use some in the water for your rice, or make a really good ramen. Just use an extra bit of butter to compensate for the lost richness of a real stock. Phil Moscowitz posted:A silicone spatula is a nice tool to get roux down off the sides of the pot. Depending on how much flour you use, the texture will be anywhere from a thick viscous liquid to kind of like wet sand. If you make roux a lot, my favorite tool is a flat whisk. Stirs like a whisk but also works on the sides / bottom of the pan.
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Sep 3, 2023 20:33
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D'artangan is in most of the standard chain grocery stores in NY, and I'm pretty sure I've seen it in NC. So that seems pretty widespread on the east coast. You may need to find the frou-frou meat section rather than the normal sausage section. Also it's expensive as gently caress. Real good though. What I would not get is the "andouille" flavor of some of the the semi-new companies that do a dozen different flavors of sausage / chicken sausage. This will generally be just a spicy-flavored meat tube with zero smoke, and isn't worth it at all. Kaiser Schnitzel posted:You forgot to mention the part where if you don’t have a good vent hood you should preemptively put out a bunch of those renuzit cones because your whole house is gonna smell like shrimp stock for a week. Oh hoho, I am about to change your life: leave the lid on when you're making stock. Why is it tradition to not cover the pot while making stock? 1. to evaporate off more water for stronger stock 2. to keep your pot from boiling over 3. to keep the temperature even and with mild convection so that the scum sticks to the surface for skimming All of these problems are more easily handled with other methods: 1. Use less water in the first place. If you are cooking a large carcass (ex turkey), break it up first so you can cover with less water. Or just don't fully cover it with water at the start, and come back after 15 minutes to bonk it with an implement until something disjoints and it stays down. 2. This really should not be a problem with a modern stove. Maybe if you have a crap gas stove with bad low-end temp control. 3. Stop giving a poo poo about scum on the surface. This "scum" is mostly denatured proteins. It's not actually bad in any way, unless you are trying to make a very clear & refined stock for fine cuisine. A more vigorous simmer with the lid on will keep that stuff in suspension in the liquid instead of sticking to the surface. If you are making gumbo, or for that matter 99% of the other things you might cook at home, you don't care about the clarity of your stock. You're not making consommé, you're making normal food. It will taste absolutely fine if you don't skim while cooking & simmer a bit more vigorously. Skim at the end, if you need to remove excess fat or stuff like gloopy broke-down veg bits. Then strain. Perfect stock. Hat tip to JKLA's The Food Lab for all this info.
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Sep 4, 2023 02:34
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TheKingslayer posted:Making a crock pot of red beans for some guests tomorrow, the idea crossed my mind to grab a can of blue runner red beans to blend up and give that more creamy texture. Anyone ever try that or am I about to do something stupid? I dunno about a blender, but I often use a can of small red beans even when using dry deans, because the canned start pre-cooked and fall apart more. However, the true secret of creamy beans is that you have to let them cool down for a while. The really good texture is from the starch gelatinizing. Cooking temp is too hot, the starch molecules are totally melted and disordered. They have to come down in temp* to start forming some ordered networks. Then when it gets actually cold it crystalizes, which is why cold rice is hard and gritty. *dunno how much, seems like the range is 40-70C depending on which types of starch? and the low end of that is an unsafe temp to hold food at. This is why red beans are always better the 2nd day.
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Sep 24, 2023 04:34
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10 Beers posted:And speaking of stock, how do you guys store yours? Can it? Freeze it? Freeze in an old spaghetti jar or whatever. If you have a large bird carcass that you want to make a lot of stock from, freeze the carcass instead and make the stock when you're gonna use it. Dead bird is smaller than a gallon of stock, especially if you whack it with a cleaver a couple times before putting it in a freezer bag.
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Oct 15, 2023 16:51
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All frozen veg are partly cooked before the flash-freeze, but I feel orka are done moreso than others? Anyways I find it's easy to overcook frozen okra so add them really late. My fav way to deal with that is waiting until the rest of everything is totally finished, then do the okra by going straight from the freezer to a hot oiled skillet. That puts some color on them and burns off some of the slime without totally overcooking it. Then combine with the rest of everything. OTOH some people like okra really well done so if that's you, ignore this.
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Oct 20, 2023 15:15
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I too enjoy gumbo you can eat with a knife and fork
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Oct 28, 2023 04:25
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find someone who talks about you the way prudhomme talks about food
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Nov 1, 2023 17:38
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Oh right, I've got a bone to pick with everyone ITT about Crystal! I finally got some and I don't get it at all. It's not that hot, and has a ton of salt. Pretty much a slightly hotter cholula. So if you use it on something that's already got good seasoning but you want to add heat, you have to use a big glug and you end up over-salted. I'd take tabasco any day of the week. Crystal will be nice for putting on eggs tho.
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Feb 16, 2024 18:52
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Hmm, I guess the answer is that to me the main job of a hot sauce is adding heat at the table, when food is made to accommodate the lowest heat tolerance. And when I'm cooking for myself I use cayenne and hot peppers to suit my own taste. (Also I'm one of those people who can drink vinegar straight, so the vinegar in a few shakes of tabasco is nothing to me.) Scythe posted:(I also often throw in chopped jalapeños with my trinity, even though I bet that’s heretical). Try adding some poblanos, particularly for a dish that is cooking for a long time. Good flavor and they keep a little more structure after cooking.
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Feb 16, 2024 19:30
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fr0id posted:Lots say to have the file powder at the table to add to taste so I assume it thickens pretty quickly so long as the gumbo is hot. This is how we did it, and I honestly never noticed it doing a whole lot of thickening. I kinda thought the file was just for taste. In fact one time I asked my mom why not just put the file in with the rest of the spices when it was cooking, and she said it would get all slimy. And now I really like the taste of file and will occasionally put it on things that don't even need thickening.
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Mar 4, 2024 13:59
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pickled okra is loving great, I would be right there with you eating it every day if I didn't live in new york
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Mar 9, 2024 14:58
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Mushika posted:Do they not make proper bloody marys in New York? I've been a few times but never ordered one. I'm sure if I went to a fancy bar where your bloody mary comes with a salad on top I might find a pickled okra. I do not go to fancy bars. I used to bring back a jar or two of pickled okra when visiting family in NC, and then I would put a picked okra in my bloody mary at home. But I decided that chow chow was a better use of limited baggage space.
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Mar 9, 2024 16:33
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