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I've been rewatching past seasons as I work. I forgot how much of these episodes I know, but also how drat funny they are. However after some of the debate over the last year about the politics, it's tough to ignore when you think about it. I usually brush off all the middle ground crap, but there's one episode where it really bugged me. Cartman's Silly Hate Crime 2000 Matt and Tre's argument from the boys is that all crime is hate crime, and it really pisses me off. This is an episode that airs only two years after Matthew Shepard is killed in a way that was cruel and specific due to him being gay, and the same amount of time since James Byrd Jr was dragged to death behind a truck for being black. I know I'm supposed to ignore it and enjoy the show, and it's funny how many other episodes I've let slide. This one really pissed me off though. I think it also highlights how tone deaf the show can be when it's just two white guys as the brains behind it.
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May 6, 2014 15:28
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Boywhiz88 posted:I know I'm supposed to ignore it and enjoy the show, and it's funny how many other episodes I've let slide. This one really pissed me off though. I think it also highlights how tone deaf the show can be when it's just two white guys as the brains behind it. You're just being sensitive. Murder is murder. Killing someone for money, for revenge, to get your rocks off or because the victim was gay are all equally heinous motives for an incredibly heinous act.
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May 6, 2014 16:29
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Irish Joe posted:Murder is murder. Killing someone for money, for revenge, to get your rocks off or because the victim was gay are all equally heinous motives for an incredibly heinous act.
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May 6, 2014 17:24
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Irish Joe posted:You're just being sensitive. Murder is murder. Killing someone for money, for revenge, to get your rocks off or because the victim was gay are all equally heinous motives for an incredibly heinous act. And they commit the crowning sin of putting their "racism? ha ha, boys, racism was something that happened in the past, there's no such thing now" filibuster in the mouth of a black man.
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May 6, 2014 19:58
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And in their yard we'll burn a giant lowercase t, for time to leave!
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May 6, 2014 20:18
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Saying anything is offensive is lazy, juvenile and ultimately pointless. Good job being on the side of fundamentalists and lonely old ladies with nothing else going on. edit - easier, don't say something was offensive, say "I was offended" because otherwise you're making yourself an arbiter of things that you have no business deciding.
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May 7, 2014 00:09
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It's not about being offended. It's about people putting loving damaging messages out into the world and pretending to be above criticism because comedy. I'm not offended that they're that stupid and reckless. But it should be pointed out.
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May 7, 2014 01:11
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LividLiquid posted:It's not about being offended. It's about people putting loving damaging messages out into the world and pretending to be above criticism because comedy. That's all your opinion, which you're entitled too. Feel free to criticize all you need to, but understand that other people will point out what a sensitive baby you are about a cartoon.
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May 7, 2014 08:00
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ChesterJT posted:That's all your opinion, which you're entitled too. Feel free to criticize all you need to, but understand that other people will point out what a sensitive baby you are about a cartoon.
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May 7, 2014 08:39
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LividLiquid posted:Yes. Pointing out prejudice and problem-thinking is good. Unless it's the kind ChesterJT thinks is funny. Then you're a sensitive baby. Yes. You're a sensitive baby.
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May 7, 2014 11:14
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I wake up in the morning with a fresh head on my shoulders wondering how I will apply my critical thinking and problem solving skills to solve the question that is South Park. Such as: what is a South Park, why do I let my kids watch it, and are Jews really loving Jews.
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May 7, 2014 12:13
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Do you even like TV, LividLiquid? The only time I see you post is to complain about it. Maybe you should, you know... find a new hobby?
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May 7, 2014 12:15
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As an overweight person is real life I am disgusted with this show's treatment of overweight people like that one little fat brave boy. This show's creators Trey Parker and Matt Stone just do not understand the prejudice we face every day in our lives being that they are wealthy, white and skinny males.
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May 7, 2014 12:20
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I thought Trey had had weight issues on and off over the years. Phone posting, so I can't quickly dig up any embarrassing photos.
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May 7, 2014 12:41
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EL BROMANCE posted:Do you even like TV, LividLiquid? The only time I see you post is to complain about it. Maybe you should, you know... find a new hobby? It seems people enjoy being offended because it gives them a chance to rush to the internet to share the injustice. If I ate at a restaurant I didn't like I'd just stop eating there but livingliquid seems like the kind that would camp out front with a big sign warning people that the food is bad while yelling "why are you still going in? I'm trying to save you!".
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May 7, 2014 16:57
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Can you all not see the difference between being offended by audacious politically incorrect humor and taking issue with the clearly stated moral lesson of a single episode?
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May 7, 2014 18:12
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Can you all not see the difference between being offended by audacious politically incorrect humor and taking issue with the clearly stated moral lesson of a single episode? I guess we all learned something here today. The world is full of other people, whether we like it or not. The internet has even more people than that. And even if they seem totally insane, or self-righteous, and even if they're stupid loving fat-asses [HEY!], the simple fact that they all exist is what challenges or own beliefs and makes the world an okay place to be. If we all agreed all the time, the world wouldn't just be boring; it would be dangerous.
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May 7, 2014 20:41
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Propaganda Machine posted:I guess we all learned something here today.
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May 7, 2014 20:52
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:I disagree. I am offended because
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May 7, 2014 21:30
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We should implant some sort of "V-Chip" into everyone that shocks you when you're about to post something potentially offensive.
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May 7, 2014 21:48
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SpiderHyphenMan posted:Can you all not see the difference between being offended by audacious politically incorrect humor and taking issue with the clearly stated moral lesson of a single episode? See, that's what bugged me. My family has a legacy related to voting, and "Giant Douche Vs Turd Sandwich" doesn't bug me as much as "Cartman's Silly Hate Crime 2000." "Giant Douche Vs Turd Sandwich" ultimately concludes that you should vote, even if it is between a giant douche or a turd sandwich and frankly, if you lose then your vote was "worthless." It's not until that moment that it's worthless. But "Cartman's Silly Hate Crime 2000" ignores the facts around cases that had recently received "hate crime" attention. A white man hurting a black man isn't a hate crime, but a white man purposely looking to brutalize a man specifically because he is black is a completely different thing. It's targeted, and frankly when a hate crime charge is brought the situation is particularly brutal. I'm not being sensitive, it's a really hosed up conclusion to that episode and Matt and Trey's views on that issue.
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May 8, 2014 03:50
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EL BROMANCE posted:Do you even like TV, LividLiquid? The only time I see you post is to complain about it. Maybe you should, you know... find a new hobby? But you can't bring this poo poo up anywhere on the internet without people being all, "  lol SJW," and that's fine, but it really comes across to me as being on the wrong side of history. Like, "minstrel shows aren't hurting anybody" levels of rhetoric sometimes.In any case, I can think some episodes have lovely, stupid messages and still enjoy the show.
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May 9, 2014 01:50
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Boywhiz88 posted:I've been rewatching past seasons as I work. I forgot how much of these episodes I know, but also how drat funny they are. However after some of the debate over the last year about the politics, it's tough to ignore when you think about it. I usually brush off all the middle ground crap, but there's one episode where it really bugged me. quote:Stan: All hate crimes do is support the idea that blacks are different from whites, that homosexuals need to be treated differently from non-homos, that we aren't the same.
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May 16, 2014 09:27
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WillieWestwood posted:I have to agree with them here. All crime done to another person IS hate crime. Being in a protected class like homosexuals and blacks is a double-edge sword, since it seems we must treat them as gingerly now as we did savagely in the past. Maybe that was a necessary thing 14 years ago when that episode came out, but now there's gay marriage, so maybe society is closer to Matt and Trey's vision. Still, those groups (LGBT, NAACP, etc.) will exist until true equality, which is what MnT were aiming for in that episode, is achieved. Isn't that what those groups want? We are hundreds of years from things being equal, gay marriage is being fought tooth and nail by bigots so I would not use that as a bastion of equality.
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May 16, 2014 09:34
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WillieWestwood posted:I have to agree with them here. All crime done to another person IS hate crime. Being in a protected class like homosexuals and blacks is a double-edge sword, since it seems we must treat them as gingerly now as we did savagely in the past. Maybe that was a necessary thing 14 years ago when that episode came out, but now there's gay marriage, so maybe society is closer to Matt and Trey's vision. Still, those groups (LGBT, NAACP, etc.) will exist until true equality, which is what MnT were aiming for in that episode, is achieved. Isn't that what those groups want? It's a ridiculous proposition because the fact is, hate crimes against minority groups happen on a regular basis and by their nature have more weight as a crime than an otherwise identical crime which was more prosaically motivated. A violent crime against someone who is gay because they are gay hurts all gay people by perpetuating a culture of hatred against the group. It is effectively incitement to or encouragement of similar violence in a way that a money-motivated murder isn't. To flesh this idea out, it's misleading to call black people a "protected class", for instance, because sure, there's stuff like affirmative action and hate crime laws, but those things exist as an attempt to counterbalance the gigantic and very real bias against black people on almost every level of society. In a pure legislative sense as well as in a social sense, white people are a protected class to a far higher degree. If you're white, you will almost certainly receive shorter sentences for the same crimes, see a lower conviction rate in the courts, and be treated more kindly by the press than you would be otherwise. Basically, yeah, in a perfect world, we wouldn't need hate crime laws, but we're so ridiculously far from anything like that that any argument to change nothing else, but abolish hate crime laws, essentially functions as an additional disenfranchisement of an already disadvantaged minority group. Not that I particularly care what South Park thinks! I just think this is an interesting topic.
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May 16, 2014 09:54
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Android Blues posted:It's a ridiculous proposition because the fact is, hate crimes against minority groups happen on a regular basis and by their nature have more weight as a crime than an otherwise identical crime which was more prosaically motivated. A violent crime against someone who is gay because they are gay hurts all gay people by perpetuating a culture of hatred against the group. It is effectively incitement to or encouragement of similar violence in a way that a money-motivated murder isn't. Agreed. As someone put it earlier, killing someone for sleeping with your wife says "Don't sleep with my wife", killing them because they're black says "Don't be black", which is far more vicious and damaging to a healthy society. One thing I was curious about, though - can hate crimes be committed against whites? Like, if a person brutally murdered someone explicitly because they were white and publicly (and anonymously) threatened white people, is that legally considered a hate crime? Or does the victim have to be part of a protected class for it to be a hate crime?
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May 16, 2014 13:20
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BreakAtmo posted:Agreed. As someone put it earlier, killing someone for sleeping with your wife says "Don't sleep with my wife", killing them because they're black says "Don't be black", which is far more vicious and damaging to a healthy society. There are definitely cases of hate crimes against white people. Intent and motivation is the biggest factor in classifying something as a hate crime, not the class part. That's why this episode miffed me enough to bump the thread. It's not one of their messages that I disagree with, but it's one that's an actively harmful idea. The timing also really bugged me because it aired only a few years after very well publicized, very real hate crimes. It ignores everything that happened in our history to make these laws necessary. It's the conclusion that kills me. It's one thing to point out that Cartman hitting Token with a rock because he called him fat and being charged with a hate crime is absurd, it's another thing to say all hate crimes are absurd.
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May 16, 2014 14:22
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I think the Trayvon Martin episode was good enough to sort of make up for Cartman's Silly Hate Crime. Sort of. vv  What? Just because I didn't specifically say that in my post doesn't mean that I don't know that.
King Vidiot fucked around with this message at 16:30 on May 16, 2014 |
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May 16, 2014 14:34
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They made Cartman's Silly Hate Crime like 14 years ago. Maybe sometimes people change their minds over the course of more than a decade. Woah.
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May 16, 2014 16:07
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Yeah, because most social libertarians change their minds and support censorship and thoughtcrime later in life.
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May 16, 2014 17:31
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Lotta' good stuff here. I certainly couldn't have said it better.
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May 17, 2014 00:04
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Boywhiz88 posted:It's one thing to point out that Cartman hitting Token with a rock because he called him fat and being charged with a hate crime is absurd, it's another thing to say all hate crimes are absurd. But that's been covered further up in the page already, and they would probably roll their eyes at it.
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May 18, 2014 01:01
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Who was that goon that played Cartman in the live action segment of that one episode? He's pretty rad, does he do any other acting?
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Jun 20, 2014 05:40
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Beartaco posted:Who was that goon that played Cartman in the live action segment of that one episode? He's pretty rad, does he do any other acting? Brandon Hardesty. Yes. Look here.
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Jun 20, 2014 07:54
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I keep catching up with "must-see" movies that I never got around watching and, after watching Clockwork Orange, that scene from the Coon & Friends trilogy where Cartman agrees to compromise before walking down the street in slow motion and beating the poo poo out of his friends seems a lot less weird and out-of-nowhere with that music. I like getting references several years too late.
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Jun 20, 2014 12:38
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Boywhiz88 posted:Matt and Tre's argument from the boys is that all crime is hate crime, and it really pisses me off. This is an episode that airs only two years after Matthew Shepard is killed in a way that was cruel and specific due to him being gay, and the same amount of time since James Byrd Jr was dragged to death behind a truck for being black. I remember them talking about people sending in hate mail about the show, and they said almost all of it starts out, "I really like watching South Park, but with this new episode XXXXX you went too far." You can make jokes about other people's religions, but once you talk about mine you went too far! Joking about rape was funny, but don't even start about hate crimes!
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Jun 20, 2014 13:15
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Fozzy The Bear posted:You can make jokes about other people's religions, but once you talk about mine you went too far! This is exactly why Isaac Hayes left the show.
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Jun 21, 2014 01:06
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Stanley's Cup got me to stop watching the show for a while. The episode was pretty funny, but the ending was too much to stomach. Good thing it was the season finale.
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Jun 21, 2014 11:15
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Stanley's cup had the best ending out of any episode in the show. Possibly out of any episode of any show. It blew my mind.
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Jun 21, 2014 17:38
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ChairMaster posted:Stanley's cup had the best ending out of any episode in the show. Possibly out of any episode of any show. It blew my mind.
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Jun 21, 2014 17:58
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