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Volguus
Mar 3, 2009

sfwarlock posted:

Yeah, that's standard both internally and externally.

I mean, our IT sends emails like these almost every other day: "Maintenance in so and so datacenter" . I've read them religiously years ago, only to see that for 100% of them I didn't give a poo poo/never impacted me. So, now I just ... don't read them. The day will come when a server/VM/service that I use and need will be offline, but I usually then just ask the team "is it working for you?".

When you're a big company with a lot of poo poo going on all the time ... yeah, you tune out the (perceived) noise.

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xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

That's why some genius should buckle down and come up with a protocol where attempting to connect to an offline service will query some kind of status reporting service and display a helpful message like "we're doing maintenance, gently caress off."

But nah, spinning a dial for 45 seconds before kicking back with a "connection timed out. contact your administrator if this persists" error is totally acceptable.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady
How do you know if it's a timeout because a thing is down or a thing doesn't even exist? If you build something into the local network stack that does a query against a source of truth when things are timing out how do you prevent that being abused to enumerate your entire network without any privileges at all if you get popped? It's a non-trivial problem to solve TBH.

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

That's why I said a genius should do it, I'd gently caress it up.

I just want errors telling people to ask to their administrator to die.

22 Eargesplitten
Oct 10, 2010



I've been in lovely work environments, but I'll be happy if nobody ever asks me to die.

Methylethylaldehyde
Oct 23, 2004

BAKA BAKA

22 Eargesplitten posted:

I've been in lovely work environments, but I'll be happy if nobody ever asks me to die.

"Do it yourself, coward. Free me from this place."

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob
It is absolutely true that nobody reads emails, but the reason you send them anyway is not so that you don't get calls about it -- that is an immutable law of nature -- but so that when you do get calls about it, you can say you sent them and it's not your fault that they didn't know. And/or that it's not your fault that it caused a problem for them, because they had the opportunity to speak up about the schedule.

Reoxygenation
Dec 8, 2010

if wishes were fishes fuck you this is my pie
The new guy at work has, once again, clinged on to me, so I am being asked questions about HS codes and shipping and items and...

I just don't understand why this happens loving consistently. Like the last 7 guys clung on to me and asked me poo poo about support and shipping and stuff all the time. I don't know? Why the gently caress does everyone assume I know? Is it because I bother actually loving answering people? I really wish people would stop!

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


Reoxygenation posted:



Is it because I bother actually loving answering people?

it's this

you are likely the only person that doesn't make them afraid to ask questions

guppy
Sep 21, 2004

sting like a byob

Reoxygenation posted:

The new guy at work has, once again, clinged on to me, so I am being asked questions about HS codes and shipping and items and...

I just don't understand why this happens loving consistently. Like the last 7 guys clung on to me and asked me poo poo about support and shipping and stuff all the time. I don't know? Why the gently caress does everyone assume I know? Is it because I bother actually loving answering people? I really wish people would stop!

Yes, that is why. Demonstrating competence and/or willingness to answer questions gets all questions routed to you. That doesn't mean you should stop being competent or stop responding to people, but try to route them to the correct source instead.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

xzzy posted:

That's why I said a genius should do it, I'd gently caress it up.

I just want errors telling people to ask to their administrator to die.
Ah, okay. Yeah, fair. I've wished for that sort of tooling a few times, and once in a while it actually shows up.

Reoxygenation
Dec 8, 2010

if wishes were fishes fuck you this is my pie

guppy posted:

Yes, that is why. Demonstrating competence and/or willingness to answer questions gets all questions routed to you. That doesn't mean you should stop being competent or stop responding to people, but try to route them to the correct source instead.

I mean I get what you're saying but it has the opposite effect on me, tbh, like yeah I shouldn't turn into a massive rear end in a top hat over this but like I've only seen incompetence be rewarded so this isn't a great motivator to keep doing as I do :v:

Especially when people come to with like whole paragraphs about what they want to do. Just because I have "systems" in my title also doesn't mean I am the sole arbitrator of how things should be done or that I know how the accounting system works...

Blue Footed Booby
Oct 4, 2006

got those happy feet

The Fool posted:

it's this

you are likely the only person that doesn't make them afraid to ask questions

It's absolutely this. Newbies gravitate toward the people who they can get a good read on, who seem safe, even if they're not the ideal place to get an answer. They especially avoid people who send mixed signals, like insisting they're happy to help then giving monosyllable answers hours late; who unpredictably loop extra people into email chains; or who aren't reliably discreet about "is the boss serious about [policy]" type questions.

Basically, newbies coming to you with questions outside of your area is a complement, indicating you treat them like fellow humans, and give off vibes of having a healthy perspective and not being a corporate bootlicker. You can repel them by adjusting your vibes. Orrrr you can cultivate those relationships and leverage them as a personal spy network, or to serve as fake managers if a later position wants boss references but your boss was an rear end in a top hat or whatever.

Silly Newbie
Jul 25, 2007
How do I?
I teach my helpdesk people that, in addition to answering IT questions, we're also going to be a clearinghouse for God drat everything, because we're the only ones everyone is certain will respond in a timely manner. Then I keep up to date docs on where to send people for most stuff that isn't our problem.

klosterdev
Oct 10, 2006

Na na na na na na na na Batman!
Man I just blew up a Linux VM I was setting up in Virtualbox (lol) trying to get drag and drop functional so I could copy the endpoint protection file over to it.

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady
Don't even bother with that poo poo. Just stick a bridged card on the VM and SCP to it or something.

Arsenic Lupin
Apr 12, 2012

This particularly rapid💨 unintelligible 😖patter💁 isn't generally heard🧏‍♂️, and if it is🤔, it doesn't matter💁.


Sywert of Thieves posted:

There's a lotta people on here complaining that Google Search sucks, but not a whole lot saying they stopped using it.

DuckDuckGo is right there!
I use DuckDuckGo, and it's drowning in AI spam sites just like Google is.

Wizard of the Deep
Sep 25, 2005

Another productive workday

Arquinsiel posted:

Don't even bother with that poo poo. Just stick a bridged card on the VM and SCP to it or something.

Pfft, make a virtual floppy image then mount it to the VM.

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Wizard of the Deep posted:

Pfft, make a virtual floppy image then mount it to the VM.

I just read an SOP with a file share mapped to A:

I'd really rather not :killing:, but goddamn if it wasn't tempting.

Wizard of the Deep
Sep 25, 2005

Another productive workday

mllaneza posted:

I just read an SOP with a file share mapped to A:

I'd really rather not :killing:, but goddamn if it wasn't tempting.

So you probably don't want to know that I mount my Windows backup target as B:, huh?

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Wizard of the Deep posted:

Pfft, make a virtual floppy image then mount it to the VM.
Okay but mine will both work and is easier than getting an Oracle product to work as advertised.

MF_James
May 8, 2008
I CANNOT HANDLE BEING CALLED OUT ON MY DUMBASS OPINIONS ABOUT ANTI-VIRUS AND SECURITY. I REALLY LIKE TO THINK THAT I KNOW THINGS HERE

INSTEAD I AM GOING TO WHINE ABOUT IT IN OTHER THREADS SO MY OPINION CAN FEEL VALIDATED IN AN ECHO CHAMBER I LIKE

Arsenic Lupin posted:

I use DuckDuckGo, and it's drowning in AI spam sites just like Google is.

Apparently DDG sold their recipes searches to some AI garbage and so any time you look up a recipe it's nonsense or otherwise complete trash.

Seems like search has turned from an artform into the show Pickers or whatever it was where they find treasure among piles of trash.

Fil5000
Jun 23, 2003

HOLD ON GUYS I'M POSTING ABOUT INTERNET ROBOTS
Bring back the old days where searching was a crapshoot because search engines were bad, instead of them being good but compromised by ads and the Internet being full of SEO slop

vanity slug
Jul 20, 2010

this was an entertaining read on google's search antics https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/

although i don't think you can blame one (or two) guys for this lol

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

vanity slug posted:

this was an entertaining read on google's search antics https://www.wheresyoured.at/the-men-who-killed-google/

although i don't think you can blame one (or two) guys for this lol

Not denying Google’s gotten worse and it’s probably because of ads… but this is an incredibly poorly written, histrionic article. It reeks of zealotry, and it is deeply unfortunate that such an interesting story is turned into this pat little fable of evil management and heroic engineers devoted to good tech. It may well be the case, but the tone and lack of good sourcing makes it hard to find even its more grounded claims believable.

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 08:38 on Apr 25, 2024

xsf421
Feb 17, 2011

Well, it was a good run. https://www.hashicorp.com/blog/hashicorp-joins-ibm

Fragrag
Aug 3, 2007
The Worst Admin Ever bashes You in the head with his banhammer. It is smashed into the body, an unrecognizable mass! You have been struck down.
After all these years, I feel like my colleague still refuses to apply principles to develop collaboratively in Unreal Engine. I create a base level with lighting and mesh assets, and he wants to try stuff out in it. Rather than making a new level with the base level as a sub-level (good) or editing the base level (not good but not bad either as I've handed it off to him), he duplicates the level and starts editing in that. So now we got the same level twice, just one slightly altered and with an extra asset added. It's the equivalent of duplicating a Google Document and editing that. For gently caress's sake we have version control for a reason.

On top of that he's left for the day and he didn't check in his work.

Maigius
Jun 29, 2013


We really need to get control of tech debt right now. We have a package that's been EOL for over 10 years and four similar, but annoyingly different ways of compiling front end JS and CSS. These also have critical third party issues we should fix.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


Arquinsiel posted:

How do you know if it's a timeout because a thing is down or a thing doesn't even exist? If you build something into the local network stack that does a query against a source of truth when things are timing out how do you prevent that being abused to enumerate your entire network without any privileges at all if you get popped? It's a non-trivial problem to solve TBH.

I think it's possible to avoid overcomplicating this. If your org has a status page, look at that status page if possible. If the system can't ping the gateway, politely inform the end user they're a fuckwit. If they can't ping 1.1.1.1, inform the user their home Internet or ISP might be down.

idk it seems like a very simple sequence of completely benign checks might be really helpful

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady
You've just added another layer via making it work from outside the network, so now you need to worry about other people's networks too. That's even more complexity and still hasn't addressed the security issue it causes.

Potato Salad
Oct 23, 2014

nobody cares


pinging two addresses and opening a predetermined status website: all major security threats

Arquinsiel posted:

lIf you build something into the local network stack that does a query against a source of truth when things are timing out how do you prevent that being abused to enumerate your entire network

maybe you're thinking of, idk, a network module extension and I'm just thinking of a very small browser extension

going back to the op, I do find it really weird that the big browsers don't say "hey you have no network connection, idiot" because they're in a great place in the system to safely see if one exists at all. similarly, "something's not right with your gateway or ISP" or "there's no route to that private (rfc1918) network, should you be on a VPN?" it's really low hanging fruit and it doesn't have to nmap your entire network and attempt to kidnap the children of your local isp's support team

Potato Salad fucked around with this message at 14:22 on Apr 26, 2024

The Fool
Oct 16, 2003


as soon as you let the rocks talk to each other it all starts going down hill

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Potato Salad posted:

maybe you're thinking of, idk, a network module extension and I'm just thinking of a very small browser extension
That's what the post you quoted is directly replying to, so yes.

Potato Salad posted:

going back to the op, I do find it really weird that the big browsers don't say "hey you have no network connection, idiot" because they're in a great place in the system to safely see if one exists at all. similarly, "something's not right with your gateway or ISP" or "there's no route to that private (rfc1918) network, should you be on a VPN?" it's really low hanging fruit and it doesn't have to nmap your entire network and attempt to kidnap the children of your local isp's support team
Chrome does tell you that you have no internet at least. It's not always correct whrn it does that, but it's better than nothing.

joebuddah
Jan 30, 2005
Sudo for windows 11...

https://learn.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/sudo/

mllaneza
Apr 28, 2007

Veteran, Bermuda Triangle Expeditionary Force, 1993-1952




Arquinsiel posted:

That's what the post you quoted is directly replying to, so yes.

Chrome does tell you that you have no internet at least. It's not always correct whrn it does that, but it's better than nothing.

Firefox has had a "you're offline, do you want to go online and here's how" status page for about 15 years. I remember this because one of the stupider senior people I've had to support stared at that all morning and only asked me about it after lunch, a really good look for our Director of New Business.

The status page for that tells you how to go back to online mode. Reading comprehension was beyond this idiot.

The Iron Rose
May 12, 2012

:minnie: Cat Army :minnie:

Potato Salad posted:

"there's no route to that private (rfc1918) network, should you be on a VPN?"

are we just ignoring the quad 0 here or what? You do not need a route more specific than 0.0.0.0/0 to an IP to communicate with that IP if you have a network proxy or a firewall that handles encapsulation/ssl interception/forwarding traffic. that implementation can be entirely transparent to the client. A browser client shouldn’t even necessarily be aware of what is private IP and what isn’t. It has and should have no notion of what differentiates a Postgres server IP from a Netflix edge node IP. In both cases your NIC is ultimately going to send traffic using a more specific route* and a next hop!

*I am eliding over path selection weighting here deliberately

The Iron Rose fucked around with this message at 09:30 on Apr 27, 2024

Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

mllaneza posted:

Firefox has had a "you're offline, do you want to go online and here's how" status page for about 15 years. I remember this because one of the stupider senior people I've had to support stared at that all morning and only asked me about it after lunch, a really good look for our Director of New Business.

The status page for that tells you how to go back to online mode. Reading comprehension was beyond this idiot.
I have never been in offline mode so I guess it's time to go play around and break my laptop.

Phat Phingers
May 27, 2023

Ey Frito-Lay! FUH Q MANG!
another one is why in the hell can you not browse a website without signing in? Or even worse: Downloading an app? Reddit does this, tumblr, IG, Tiktok, it's just frustrating. Eventually YouTube will start doing this bullshit. The thing that sucks about the internet is that it will just continue to decay more and more until some kind of major event occurs (eg a world war, giant solar storm) and breaks it. only then will it get better and more user oriented rather than corporation oriented. /rant

e: tumblr and ig even let you see some posts but completely block you after scrolling a bit. what am I a loving fish? can't even have a bite of content?

Sweevo posted:

And heaven forbid you ever lose that phone.

Can't log in without the phone for 2FA, but you don't have the phone. Online recovery leads you round in circles sending recovery emails to accounts you also can't log into without the phone. Eventually you call tech support and they say they'll sort it within 48 hours, and then they send you a one-off access code - to the phone you just repeatedly told them you don't have any more.

My bank asked a few security questions and it was sorted within 10 minutes.
Ebay took 5 days and multiple calls.

I was thinking of buying a cheap prepaid but then i realized it's just not worth the hassle.

Phat Phingers fucked around with this message at 15:47 on Apr 28, 2024

xzzy
Mar 5, 2009

Well as they say, if it's free you are the product. They want your email address so they can build a profile of you and sell it to advertisers.

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Arquinsiel
Jun 1, 2006

"There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady
That's why it's extra annoying when it's *not* free and you're just trying to find out how much it costs or whatever.

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