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veekie posted:The Chef subclass is going to be so pissed that the food tastes like cardboard. Apparently the cat dude you can see in the OP has Chef as his subclass, and player-crafted food created from mob drops actually tastes decent, it's just the vendor food that doesn't taste of anything. Autonomous Monster posted:And a bard is a "weapon master"? The title for that grouping is probably a case of the meaning getting lost in translation, judging from some of the other translations there. Bards being included with rogue-archetype classes under a light melee grouping is hardly unusual, though. I'm more surprised that there's no ranger/hunter type ranged physical dps class (although Assassin or Bard might have bow proficiency, so maybe you could go with one of those and an appropriate subclass would provide that kind of combat style).
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Oct 14, 2013 17:48
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Fair enough, I guess.
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arhra posted:Apparently the cat dude you can see in the OP has Chef as his subclass, and player-crafted food created from mob drops actually tastes decent, it's just the vendor food that doesn't taste of anything. The assassin description says they can choose to be snipers just as easily. No need for a subclass even. Assassin skills are either multi-purpose or they simply get both by leveling. Oh, I guess the class descriptions weren't linked here. Clarste fucked around with this message at 18:03 on Oct 14, 2013 |
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Oct 14, 2013 17:59
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From the looks of it, the class division is Defense, Offense, Recovery, Support, with subflavors that blur the boundaries a little, like Bard and Sorceror being Offense + Support with different bases. EDIT: Is there a list of what each class/subclass actually does somewhere?
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Oct 14, 2013 18:03
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veekie posted:EDIT: Is there a list of what each class/subclass actually does somewhere? Yes, but I don't know how to link images.
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Oct 14, 2013 18:05
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If we were being historically accurate, the Samurai would be the bow class. 
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Oct 14, 2013 20:03
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Endorph posted:If we were being historically accurate, the Samurai would be the bow class. From the icons, it's just meant to be a DPS tank class, while guardian is a full-on defensive tank class.
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Oct 14, 2013 21:17
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Regarding the info dropping, I think it'll be interesting to see if they're dropping the info just for the sake of dropping it or if any of it will turn out to be relevant. For example, the root spell was explicitly stated to be a short duration effect, whereas the sleep spell appeared to be able to last for an entire battle. That begs the question of why you'd ever use the root spell - does the sleep spell break on damage? Can a party member wake you up? I could see this being interesting if they explore the mechanics enough that the protagonists can utilize them in interesting ways. I'd be much more pleased by all the MMO jargon and info if it ends up influencing the story in meaningful ways (sort of like how Brandon Sanderson utilizes magic systems).
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Oct 14, 2013 21:19
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Salaris posted:Regarding the info dropping, I think it'll be interesting to see if they're dropping the info just for the sake of dropping it or if any of it will turn out to be relevant. Sleep spells in many games break upon taking damage, so very likely it's only good for sidelining a particularly annoying enemy for a while. A lot of things are also likely to be immune to sleep effects, I doubt sleep works on undead and golems for example. The root spell only limits movement distance but seems to be absolute while it lasts, perfect for forcing enemies to engage your tank, or just to pound them at a distance with attack spells.
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Oct 14, 2013 22:48
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Salaris posted:For example, the root spell was explicitly stated to be a short duration effect, whereas the sleep spell appeared to be able to last for an entire battle. That begs the question of why you'd ever use the root spell - does the sleep spell break on damage? Can a party member wake you up? Long duration disabling spells usually have a long cooldown or casting time as trade-off for raw effectiveness.
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Oct 14, 2013 22:56
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Also, maybe the only thing needed to break a sleep spell is to shake the victim out of it, remember how he made it such a big deal to conceal the fact that he put the healer to sleep from the rest of his group?
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Oct 14, 2013 23:06
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Clarste posted:Yes, but I don't know how to link images. Every Log Horizon thread on /a/ has them posted at one point or another, I think. Largely speaking, every class has ranged and melee weapons that they can access. Guardians are the tankiest of characters at the cost of their overall damage. Samurai use special skills that are only once per encounter (like Iais). Monks get bonuses for comboing their special skills and use "thrown" weapons as thir ranged weapon. Assassins have the highest unconditional damage output in the game. Fencers are the only ones who can dual wield and their damage goes up with the more enemies they fight, reaching Assassin levels. That's the most that been translated, I think. The blurb for Bards hasn't been translated, but their weapons do include Musical Instruments. Edit: Rexides posted:Also, maybe the only thing needed to break a sleep spell is to shake the victim out of it, remember how he made it such a big deal to conceal the fact that he put the healer to sleep from the rest of his group?
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Oct 14, 2013 23:15
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Rexides posted:Also, maybe the only thing needed to break a sleep spell is to shake the victim out of it, remember how he made it such a big deal to conceal the fact that he put the healer to sleep from the rest of his group? Or, to keep things more 'gamey', friendly fire is programmed in, letting you wake up one of your comrades with a low-powered attack. That would be a cool extrapolation from the way ninja-girl keeps beating on their pet tank.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:17
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Anyone with the info images to post could just rehost them on imgurl or the like and just link the stuff?
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Oct 14, 2013 23:25
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Autonomous Monster posted:And a bard is a "weapon master"?  
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Oct 14, 2013 23:32
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Xelkelvos posted:Every Log Horizon thread on /a/ has them posted at one point or another, I think. Largely speaking, every class has ranged and melee weapons that they can access. Guardians are the tankiest of characters at the cost of their overall damage. Samurai use special skills that are only once per encounter (like Iais). Monks get bonuses for comboing their special skills and use "thrown" weapons as thir ranged weapon. Assassins have the highest unconditional damage output in the game. Fencers are the only ones who can dual wield and their damage goes up with the more enemies they fight, reaching Assassin levels. That's the most that been translated, I think. The blurb for Bards hasn't been translated, but their weapons do include Musical Instruments. I half-translated (ie: read, slowly) some of the others myself, although they're not too different from what you'd expect. Bards are weak on their own but buff the party with songs. Druids are a hybrid caster class with damage, healing and buffs, but are considered best at healing (and use HoTs, also mana inefficient so bad at long fights). Summoners... summon things. Standard pet class. There's a huge variety of summons but they can only have a limited amount out at once. Popular with soloists because tanky pets cover the fragility of caster classes.
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Oct 14, 2013 23:32
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Almost all (if not all) sleep or mez spells in MMOs are broken upon attack. The idea is to selectively put a number of enemies from a group of enemies to sleep. Then, pick them off one by one or in more manageable pieces. In EQ, root has a chance of being broken on attack. Therefore, it's never perfectly safe, say, for a wizard to root a mob and then blast it. It's much safer to snare the mob or group of mobs, and kite them from a distance. Snares don't break. The enchanter in Log Horizon seemed to be able to cast both roots and snares. Roots forbid any movement. Snares slow movement. Most warriors in most MMOs have some sort of non-ignorable agro ability. The whole purpose of the tank class is to be a "meat shield" and take all the damage for the group. I was pleasantly surprised to see our Log Horizon tank yell out his skill and make it so the other members of the PvP group would be unable to ignore him. These skills usually only work on PvE and not PvP. That was pretty cool. Likewise, in most MMO's the rogue classes do the most damage. Therefore, it's not surprising that the Log Horizon assassin has the most damage capacity. The general idea is the rogue/assassin can sneak up behind the person/creature you're fighting and backstab. Bards and Minstrels and such really have it bad in MMOs. They can basically be anything. What can you do with song? In Lord of the Rings online, Minstrels are the primary healers. There are no clerics. In EQ, bards are a jack-of-all-trades class that can be extremely useful in a group, but aren't critical. The fact the Log Horizon Bard is a "weapons master" only makes sense by the fact they don't have any real defined traditional role. You'd never expect an Assassin to be a Healer, but a Bard has no set boundaries.
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Oct 15, 2013 00:52
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Dan7el posted:Most warriors in most MMOs have some sort of non-ignorable agro ability. The whole purpose of the tank class is to be a "meat shield" and take all the damage for the group. I was pleasantly surprised to see our Log Horizon tank yell out his skill and make it so the other members of the PvP group would be unable to ignore him. These skills usually only work on PvE and not PvP. That was pretty cool. It wasn't the kind of MMO "mind control" tanking ability though, it was more like the marking mechanic in D&D 4E, where the enemy can still choose to ignore the tank, but will suffer some kind of penalty for it.
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Oct 15, 2013 08:07
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Probably the AI is programmed to treat it as a hard effect though. Players can opt out, but mobs don't generally have the tactical complexity to do anything like opting out based on tradeoffs.
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Oct 15, 2013 09:14
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veekie posted:Probably the AI is programmed to treat it as a hard effect though. Players can opt out, but mobs don't generally have the tactical complexity to do anything like opting out based on tradeoffs. Considering they're in a world where sensory immersion is normal, I'm sure the programmers are capable enough to program skill specific AI. Imagine general mobs and all lower level enemies will just attack the tank, but maybe higher level enemies and some bosses do have the capacity to choose.
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Oct 15, 2013 17:56
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ViggyNash posted:Considering they're in a world where sensory immersion is normal, I'm sure the programmers are capable enough to program skill specific AI. Imagine general mobs and all lower level enemies will just attack the tank, but maybe higher level enemies and some bosses do have the capacity to choose. Sensory immersion is not normal to them (hence the rather slow realization that they were actually in the game world), and in fact it's implied that this is a really old game that's been slowly ticking along with patches being added on top of ancient architecture. As far as sensory immersion not being normal, also recall that two pf the characters in the first episode expressed discomfort with their avatar bodies (being too tall and being too male). Yet they've been playing this game for 8 years and reached max level? This is very new to them. It is not a .hack or SAO situation where they put on VR gear and then find themselves stuck. It's a situation where they wake up one day (not "log in one day": they didn't even choose to start up the game) and surprisingly find themselves inside what was previously a keyboard-and-mouse game. It's very surreal to them.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:20
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Yeah, especially the bit where they're struggling with the interface now that they have no keyboard to hotkey stuff. It'd be hard to imagine max level players still struggling with the interface mid combat.
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Oct 15, 2013 19:34
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I got the sense that the game has always had sensory immersion, and that everyone's discomfort was due to the new patch that changed up the whole game.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:16
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ViggyNash posted:I got the sense that the game has always had sensory immersion, and that everyone's discomfort was due to the new patch that changed up the whole game. No, I have to agree with Clarste; I get the strong feeling that there was no sensory immersion whatsoever. Hence why the players didn't realize they were actually in the game until they saw recognizable landmarks.
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Oct 15, 2013 20:56
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Bremen posted:No, I have to agree with Clarste; I get the strong feeling that there was no sensory immersion whatsoever. Hence why the players didn't realize they were actually in the game until they saw recognizable landmarks. I'll have to rewatch it later and correct this post if I'm wrong, but I believe Shiroe was surprised to see the menu pop up. On top of not being used to moving around in the body of his character, which is taller, and max level characters struggling with mid-low level enemies due to the menu, I don't think there's any doubt that it was a traditional mouse and keyboard MMO. I'm not sure how direct the translation was but I remember Shiroe making a comment about how it was hard to keep track of everything (when managing his party during the battle with the chipmunks) now that the field of view was "real life" or something to that effect.
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Oct 15, 2013 21:00
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Probably because for most MMOs you get a third person perspective and have at least a limited ability to see behind your character, if not total. Going to first person makes you a LOT easier to ambush and low obstacles suddenly become significant.
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Oct 15, 2013 21:06
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Desuwa posted:I'll have to rewatch it later and correct this post if I'm wrong, but I believe Shiroe was surprised to see the menu pop up. On top of not being used to moving around in the body of his character, which is taller, and max level characters struggling with mid-low level enemies due to the menu, I don't think there's any doubt that it was a traditional mouse and keyboard MMO. There's also the fact that his interface also occupies his field of view so that his party's stats and all of the menu bars are almost perpetually in view.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:14
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What the gently caress kind of subclass is "Princess Rosegarden"?
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Oct 16, 2013 00:40
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The_White_Crane posted:What the gently caress kind of subclass is "Princess Rosegarden"? I smell DMPC/Lord British types. £10 says she's the MC's other love interest.
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Oct 16, 2013 00:43
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The_White_Crane posted:What the gently caress kind of subclass is "Princess Rosegarden"? A dumb name for the prince/ss class in Etrian Odyssey 3?
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Oct 16, 2013 06:21
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My guess is the writers sat in a room and threw out ideas and some poor slob of an intern had to write them all down and turn them into subclasses. They probably did this after a nice, long alcohol-laden lunch. There was likely a lot of a laughing going on -- except for the poor intern, whose hand cramped on the word "Rosegarden". I'm guessing it was a lot of fun, too.
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Oct 16, 2013 18:59
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Pretty sure immersion isn't normal, if only for the scene where MC says he was struggling because his character is taller then he was in real life, and so the difference was messing him up. The show looks interesting, but its too early to tell where they're going with it. Hopefully it does the whole "trapped in a game" thing well, because its a plot device I quite like, and would like to see more people do well. I do wonder if "Roleplaying" is a mis translation of the subclasses though, it seems odd that some sub-classes would straight up allow you to do stuff (like copy a map) but a sigilmancer just gets to wave his hands and pretend... he mances sigils?
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Oct 17, 2013 00:11
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Conot posted:I do wonder if "Roleplaying" is a mis translation of the subclasses though, it seems odd that some sub-classes would straight up allow you to do stuff (like copy a map) but a sigilmancer just gets to wave his hands and pretend... he mances sigils? The whole categorization of the subclasses there seems kinda odd. Why is Blacksmith under Production, but Carpenter isn't? Some of the ones listed under "Roleplaying" seem like they would have definite combat applications (and Akatsuki definitely gets some useful abilities from her subclass), and others seem likely to be crafting professions (Carpenter and Swordsmith, obviously, and given nothing but the name, I'd guess Sigilmancer might be able to augment gear, or maybe abilities, like enchants or glyphs in WoW), but then there's stuff like Aristocrat, Scholar, and Accountant... Actually, from a game-design standpoint the entire system seems like it'd never work in practice, unless there are some serious limitations elsewhere that we've not been told about. One thing MMO players as a group are fantastic about doing is min-maxing the hell out of any system you present them with, and a system that makes people choose between subclasses that have actual useful combat applications (like Akatsuki's, for example), and a crafting profession, or worse, whatever the hell being a Butler gives you, are invariably going to choose the combat classes for their main, and offload the other useful stuff onto crafting/etc alts.
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Oct 17, 2013 01:54
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My best guess is that for something like that to work, none of them have combat utility. Tracker seems to have some useful abilities, but those aren't combat abilities. We can assume for example that it doesn't give her any kind of battle stealth. In WoW for example, Hunters have a skill that lets them track different types of enemies (ie: see them on the minimap), but as far as I know no one really cares since it doesn't help them do damage in any way. Once you imagine them all like that, it doesn't seem quite so bad. The convenience of mobs having a lower aggro ranged outside of dungeons isn't really something that can be meaningfully weighed against the convenience of being able to craft your own gear as opposed to buying it. Min-maxing doesn't even come into play in the first place.
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Oct 17, 2013 03:15
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I've played hunter in capture the flag PvP in WoW, and let me tell you tracking is amazing for that. Not to mention in the situation players are in with Log Horizon that I imagine any sort of skill that increases your battlefield awareness is going to be extremely helpful.
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Oct 17, 2013 05:17
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This entire thing reminds me of what if Elder Scrolls was online and anime.
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Oct 17, 2013 07:56
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Mordaedil posted:This entire thing reminds me of what if Elder Scrolls was online and anime. I'm surprised there isn't a tie in MMO of sorts in the works yet.
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Oct 17, 2013 17:38
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Xelkelvos posted:I'm surprised there isn't a tie in MMO of sorts in the works yet. Actually, there is. I can't remember the name, though.
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Oct 18, 2013 05:45
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Dan7el posted:Most warriors in most MMOs have some sort of non-ignorable agro ability. The whole purpose of the tank class is to be a "meat shield" and take all the damage for the group. I was pleasantly surprised to see our Log Horizon tank yell out his skill and make it so the other members of the PvP group would be unable to ignore him. These skills usually only work on PvE and not PvP. That was pretty cool. That being said, I'm not aware of any Asian MMOs aside from Guild Wars that have robust PvP mechanics, and I don't think Guild Wars or GW2 took off in Japan at all. Like someone else said earlier, Japanese players tend much more strongly toward the PVE raiding mindset than bloodthirsty Americans. Not sure why Koreans seem to like it more, maybe it's the odd underdog image that you see a lot in Korean stories. I've found that most players in US PVP games tend to be the type who say they like PvP, but really they just like winning at PvP; when confronted with the reality of it they often either ragequit or turn into a sopping, whiny child who blames everyone but themselves for their 1:14 kill:death ratio.
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Oct 19, 2013 02:49
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So far I’ve enjoyed watching this anime but it needs to start doing...something, anything! pretty soon or I’ll get increasingly bored with it. There are plenty of interesting options but none of them are being expanded on. Dying, so far, seems to have no meaning, and people don’t behave as though they’re actually stuck in a game; the subject might as well be a bunch of dudes playing a regular MMORPG. Nobody seems to be bothered all that much about being stuck or how possibly to quit. And if quitting isn’t a priority, people neither seem to care a lot about ensuring they’ll be able to prosper and enjoy their time being stuck. I’d love this anime a lot more if there was more political intrigue, guilds camping dungeon entrances, resource monopolization, extortion, meaningful PvP, etc. The latest episode with some guy carving out his own kingdom in the north gives me hope that they’ll delve deeper into those topics, but I'm also afraid they'll end up treating it as an incident of one 'evil' guy and his guild rather than a systemic problem evolving into conquest, dominion and war.
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Oct 19, 2013 15:16
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Fleve posted:the subject might as well be a bunch of dudes playing a regular MMORPG. To be honest, that's kind of what I like about the show. I expect we're going to get more dramatic stuff, but I don't expect it to lose the dorky, everyday life in a videogame feel.
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Oct 19, 2013 16:30
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