Register a SA Forums Account here!
JOINING THE SA FORUMS WILL REMOVE THIS BIG AD, THE ANNOYING UNDERLINED ADS, AND STUPID INTERSTITIAL ADS!!!

You can: log in, read the tech support FAQ, or request your lost password. This dumb message (and those ads) will appear on every screen until you register! Get rid of this crap by registering your own SA Forums Account and joining roughly 150,000 Goons, for the one-time price of $9.95! We charge money because it costs us money per month for bills, and since we don't believe in showing ads to our users, we try to make the money back through forum registrations.
 
  • Locked thread
Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Reddit and official forums: lots and lots of bitching.

SA forums: posting butts.

I really don't know why I bother to read other forums.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

lunatikfringe posted:

Clearly the signs of a successful patch. THIS GAME IS NOT DEAD! YET

MMO players will complain about anything and everything. It is the only constant in the universe.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
The announcement won't be an expansion. Its just going to be them announcing their newest product; the life size Scarlet Briar statue that can be yours for one low price of 50,000 gems.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

Trogdos! posted:

Four? Are you counting other continents' human cities as well? Tyrian humans have only one of their Kingdoms left, Kryta, which is being invaded by centaurs. Not even their gods care to bail them out anymore. Nobody knows anything about what's happening in Kaineng other than Tengu genocide, and Elonan humans are enslaved by the desert Lich King. Lion's Arch is not a human city, it's an independent (multi-ethnic) pirate city-state built on the ruins of a human city.

Ebonhawke is a pretty big city. Ascolon settlement is also decently sized compared to most outposts. Don't know about a 4th, though.

The size of cities and outposts is hard to judge in a game world, but most races really don't have large settlements outside of the home cities. The Charr have a lot of land currently, but most of it can't actually be used due to ghosts and dragon minions.

The humans are surely worse off than before the Searing, but they're still doing pretty well compared to everyone else.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Video game writing is hardly good. MMO writing is even worse. Compared to the competition, GW2's story really isn't bad.

I mean, compare to WoW. One of the new zones entirely revolves around redeeming a fallen god, getting his power, and then fighting an Orc who manages to punch the power out of you. No real explanation on how it happens outside of the orc just being reeallllyyy good at punching. So completely anti-climatic since the entire zone's quest line basically goes no where because of it.

Only MMO story I ever really got invested in was TSW, but even then I couldn't make it through the leveling since soooo many of the zones just devolved into "Kill zombies. Oh, and go kill more zombies".

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Do back pieces show with outfits?

Its not original, but I'm tempted to get the Balthazar outfit for my human warrior, use the Flames of Balthazar back piece, and then all the fire weapons I can get my hands on. Fire for the Fire god!

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

Bauxite posted:

If you're getting murdered in wvw it has nothing to do with your build. HTH.


What?

Builds mean a lot in WvW. The difference between a pve build, a zerg build, and a roaming build can be insane for a lot of classes.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

Bauxite posted:

9 times out of 10 if you get murdered it's because you were in the wrong place at the wrong time and had to fight too many people. Builds won't magically let you take on 5+ other people.

But a pve build will still get you killed in even numbered battles.

The pve Guardian build has like 10k hitpoints and would die really fast in a zerg. It also doesn't have the condi clears or burst to last long in a 1v1 battle like a Medi guard does.

WvW is more than just getting killed by 5 people.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

Bauxite posted:

WvW occupies that same space where the most important factor in your success isn't really your build but how good you are at choosing the correct fights and being in the right place on the map and bringing more people than the other guy.

That's not true in the slightest.

If you took one group and put them all in pve builds and had them fight a smaller group that had all wvw builds, I would bet on the wvw group every time. The difference is massive. When I'm in a zerg build, I can last for days in a zerg. My WvW build has 20-22k HP, more than double what I could run in pve. If I get into a fight against a thief 1v1? I'm dead. Nothing I can do unless the thief is rereeallllly bad. He can blind all my hammer hits and his poison will stop my AH from doing anything. On the other hand, if I fought that same thief in a roaming build I'd probably win. If I took my roaming build to a zerg fight I could probably last 1-2 pushes, but if the fight lasted longer I'd be dead meat if I didn't fall back out of the fight. It doesn't have that kind of sustain needed ti frontline in WvW.

You seem to think WvW is all avoiding fights and mindlessly blobing. Even on T1 where the blobs are actually queue sized, running a bad build will get you killed. There is a reason why a lot of guilds run tagless and avoid letting pugs run with them and its because someone with a bad build will die and rally the enemy.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

Bauxite posted:

If SPvP builds, which tend to be created around capturing objectives or winning even fights and are more rigorously play tested than any wvw build, are incapable of fighting people because you're in eternal battlegrounds instead of courtyard, and that the chances of two zergs meeting under the circumstances of both equal numbers AND an equal engagement is somehow more than 1% of the time and it's not the 99% of cases where when two zergs actually duke it out it's not a pure numbers/overall tactics game (i.e. who has more/better arrow carts placed), then I guess you're right.

I have spent hundreds to thousands of hours in WvW. I see fights that are even skill wise and number wise daily. This is from both small groups and from blobs. I've played on various tiers and have seen the same thing from T6 to T1. Just because you don't seek these out doesn't mean they aren't there.

SPvp and WvW are different beasts. Just because a build can hold a point in spvp doesn't mean it can work well in a zerg or even roaming. A build that works 5v5 might not work well in 10v10 or 30v30. Turret Engie is good in Spvp but completely horrible in WvW. I also find it funny that you don't think WvW builds aren't rigorously tested. WvW guilds test new and current builds all the time.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Before people start arguing about how good Turrets are, you can change "good" in my post to "decent", "playable", or even "not awful" and my point still stands. Just because something can work in spvp doesn't mean it will also work in WvW.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

orcane posted:

But they're not being dicks? Builds matter if you're tryharding in WvW, pretty sure that isn't contested. They still don't matter for everyone else who just follows Xushin & Co. around to take stuff from SBI though, hth.

Except for the fact that the entire thing started because someone said they have multiple of the same class so they can be lazy and not need to switch builds to do WvW and someone else responded with a generic "You don't need a specific build for WvW". No mention of casual play or tryharding on either end. So yeah, the guy was being kind of a dick.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
:jerkbag:

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
I was really expecting more Asura butt when I clicked those links.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
The new trait lines at least make it seem like adding new weapons and trait lines in the future will be a lot easier than it would be with the current system.

I'll reserve judgement until I see it in action, but I'm liking what I see.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
All I know is the amount of complaining is going to be massive no matter what happens.

I'm already seeing some Necro players complaining about all Wells being ground target spells by default. I mean, like 4 of the 5 Necro builds that use Wells use the trait to make them ground targeted already.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
I think the biggest change to potential build diversity will come from stats no longer being on traits.

I'll use Necro as an example. Right now the generic pve Necro build is 6/6/0/0/2. The reason why its this is less the traits themselves and more the stats you get from those trait lines. Hell, the meta battle page doesn't even list a generic trait to use in Soul Reaping because its not a huge deal which trait you take. It puts the two points there for the crit damage. Even the 6 in Curses is mostly there because of the Crit% more than Weakening Shroud being some sort of must have trait.

With the change, and depending on how they change the traits, Necros could probably actually spec into Death Magic and Blood Magic without tanking their damage.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

treizebee posted:

Eh, there is an old build making mentality from launch days of don't trait for stats, trait for traits. That still applies with today's builds. Going with your necro example, the typical powermancer is traited for +300 power and ferocity, but that's because of close to death and death perception. Yeah, the fact that you get the best stats for a powermancer is a great coincidence, but it would still be the same build if those trait lines gave vitality and toughness instead.

The "primary" pve build doesn't use Death Perception. The Death Shroud pve build is less powerful than the Dagger build. The Dagger build mostly uses traits for stat points.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

treizebee posted:

I don't know pve, but if this 66002 build is some sort of min/max dungeon boss dps rotation poop machine, then I can tell you that 6 in curses isn't for a piddly +300 precision on what I can assume is a full zerk + whatever zerk runes build. Target the weak (grandmaster minor) is a huge dps modifier on punching bags considering all the conditions in the game are probably permanently applied to a boss. And since apparently weakening shroud is used, then entering death shroud is part of the rotation so the other huge minor trait (furious demise) is a factor.

If that is the go-to build for a pve necro, I can safely assume whoever made it didn't just go "uh yeah i need more precision on this full zerk, high fury uptime, glass cannon build" but probably added up that the most damaging trait, albeit minor, was in curses and there was no where else to put the remaining points.

"Another pretty major advantage to the new system. Necro can now trait for supportive and defensive stuff without losing all their damage. Currently investing in blood or death magic completely tanks your damage. With the new system that wont be as big of an issue. You wont lose any stats to gain defensive traits."

That was a post from the guy who generally makes the Necro pve build. So yes, a lot of the current pve build does revolve around the statpoints. Not all, but its definitely a factor.

Of course this isn't true for all builds for all classes. I just used pve Necro as an example because the build really does focus on the stat points.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
I wasn't even trying to make some huge point. Just that removing stats from traits is a good change that could have an effect on build diversity. Necro was just a quick and easy example to give.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

Metrohunter posted:

If I wanted to dip my toes back into the pool that is GW2, approximately how much piss would I be standing in compared to launch? Also how are Elementalists these days.

GW2 is one of the best MMOs on the market. While the game has improved, it still is the same fundamental game that it was at launch. If there was a reason you stopped playing, that reason probably still exists. Plus side, there is no sub fee, so giving it another shot only costs you time.

Elementalists are probably the best class in the game right now. They have a top build in every game mode.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Ele's have the lowest base defenses in the game and can be kinda annoying to level because of it. Especially as a new player. Even at max level you have to be pretty active with playing the class because of it.

But they are extremely strong once you get everything down.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
I think this is the first time I've ever seen someone defend Last Refuge.

Its like seeing a Unicorn.

Cause its a bad trait.

That shouldn't be defended.

Just like Unicorns.

gently caress Unicorns.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
At least in pve, a Hammer Guardian is kind of support-like.

Constant Protection buff for that sweet -33% direct damage. Run Purging Flames for Condi Clears, Retreat for swiftness and the Aegis, and Wall of Reflection for the reflect. Trait into blind on VoJ. Also have VoC to give another Aegis.

Its pretty much just a proactive healer instead of a reactive one. Prevent the damage instead of healing it like a Disc Priest from WoW.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

Every day that passes where I do not learn what the new thief weapon will be I die a little more inside

Yeah, I understand why they're prolonging putting out information, can't stop the hype train after all, but I'm an impatient rear end in a top hat and want to know all the weapons and how they will play now.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Bird, embrace the rifle.

You can rename your Thief to Coenocorypha, which is the fancy science name for the Austral Snipe.

Snipe, like a sniper. Cause of rifle.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Was really not expecting Dragonhunter. Its...interesting I guess.

The new Virtues could be pretty strong in PvP and WvW. When traited with the new spec and the Virtues trait line, your Wing's of Resolve will give you condi cleanse, a leap, an AoE ally heal at the end of the leap, and potentially damage at the end of the leap also. That would be pretty neat. Shield of Courage also sounds great for WvW where you can trait it to give AoE stab and block attacks for your group. Mix that with Wall of Reflection and you could actually guard your commander from being sniped by rangers pretty nicely. A Guardian guarding; a novel idea.

Not really as "cool" as Mesmer's new spec but as long as the final numbers aren't bad, Dragonhunter doesn't seem weak.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
It kinda fits the Guardian theme. Kinda.

Right now the biggest threat out there are the Dragons and the dragon minions. Makes sense for Guardians to want to focus on the biggest threat. No better way to protect people than to specifically hunt what's threatening them the most.

Its still a horrible and generic name though. Something like "Seeker" would have been better.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

CLAM DOWN posted:

It fits ranger or something for sure, not guardian. Something more generic and guardian-ish would have been way better, zealot, seeker, protector, even paladin, I dunno, something like that. "Dragonhunter" is loving awful.

Things like Protector, paladin, zealot, ect are better Guardian names, but they wouldn't really fit with the theme of this specific spec.

A Guardian/Ranger hybrid actually makes sense for a Guardian too. Rangers, in real life and fantasy, generally protect things. A park ranger's job is to protect and preserve the park. Assuming the general theme for Guardian is "protect allies and smite foes", mixing Guardian and Ranger in an expansion that focuses on an untamed jungle full of monsters that need killing makes sense.

They could have come up with a better name, but its not completely without merit.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

Kajeesus posted:

I'm genuinely curious about the train of thought that led to this question. Can you walk me through it?



Its a goon being a goon.

Which is pretty much the same answer to everything when it comes to these forums.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Unless things get changed or the other new specs are just as amazing looking, Guardian are going to be even more of a monster WvW class.

So much AoE CC. Bow 5 to AoE CC, you can trait the new Virtue Leap to AoE Immob, use Hammer to AoE CC, and if you want to get even more for fun you can trait cripple on knockback, so use shield over Hammer to AoE knockback cripple. Worried about what the enemy will do from there? No worries, just bust out your new AoE Courage Virtue block.

And none of that requires the 7-9 skills so you can continue using Meds, Shouts, or some of the new traps for even more AoE.

Totbot fucked around with this message at 20:48 on May 8, 2015

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
I don't know, its not like Anet changes things quickly. Or makes large changes often.

A big patch for Anet in the past is updated skill tooltips.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Looks awesome and all, but its not really what Necro's need. Seems like its giving Necro's more of what they already have. I know they haven't shown us everything yet, but it sounds like they're not going to give any party support. So Necro's are still left out in the water for pve.

Also, I really hope they show something tomorrow that will give Necro's a decent amount of Stability. Without Stab, a melee Necro isn't going to fair very well with slow attacks in pvp or wvw.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

ItBurns posted:

Also lol at needing stab for PvP. Necro already has the most access to stab in the game if it actually wanted it.

I'm only going to post about this once cause I don't want to poo poo up the thread like I've done in the past.

If Reaper is indeed a slow hitting melee class, you will need stab. Or some way to avoid CC in general. CC will interrupt all your stuff if you attack slow. Imagine playing a Hammer Warrior without stab or Berserker Stance to avoid blinds. It would be awful.

Necro stab isn't good. Well of Power is 1 stack. Foot in the Grave is 1 stack. That's bad. Other classes get 3-10 stacks of stab from their stuff. The Elite Skills are better since they reapply, but you can't get that stab without being in the form so its not really relevant to what a Reaper can do since once you leave the elite forms you lose your stab. Plus they have long cooldowns.

Reaper looks cool as gently caress. And they could reveal a lot of great stuff tomorrow.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013

LITERALLY A BIRD posted:

Thieves only get stability from a junky situational elite :buddy:

Or stealing from a Mesmer, I guess.

But they have other means to avoid stuff. Mobility and stealth. Necro's don't really have anything. That's why Necro's are generally backline fighters.

I'll stop now since most goons get really offended when people try to actually discuss stuff over posting Asura butts.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Its also good for co op in other ways beside xp. Everyone gets their own gathering nodes and loot from enemies. If you see some Iron, both of you can mine it. If you kill an enemy, everyone has a chance to get loot from it.

Very co op friendly game.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
In concept all those WvW changes are awesome. Applied Fort/Str were always dumb and I'm happy to see them go.

I like the idea of towers auto upgrading in concept. Right now, most players don't really bother to try to upgrade. Why spend gold on a tower you'll probably lose? With the auto upgrade, all you lose trying to upgrade a tower faster by escorting yaks and keeping camps will be time which is fine since MMOs are just time sinks anyway.

I'm sure there are going to be issues that come up with the changes. But I'd rather Anet try to shake things up than continue not changing anything at all even if it goes wrong.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
Hey guys, one person made a post saying how they thought one part of the expansion during a beta test wasn't the greatest thing ever. Listen now how I'll use it to justify the dumb things I said months ago:

This is where I'd post a picture of asurabutt, but I'm lazy and my food is done cooking. Feel free to use your imagination.

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
GW2's story is good in the sense that its generally less bad than most of the MMO's I've played.

Adbot
ADBOT LOVES YOU

Totbot
Oct 4, 2013
I clicked a link and it wasn't asurabutt

I'm confused. And a little scared.

  • Locked thread