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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Rarity posted:

There are an indescribable number of problems with Glee but the main problems that have brought the show down are these:

  • A total lack of attention to continuity, leading to a world where only what happens in the moment matters
  • Attempting to highlight major social issues while simultaneously making jokes about other major social issues
  • Heavy handed pushing of emotional moments that lead to mawkish and manipulative speeches
  • Complete inability to plan a story arc
  • Poor song choices and poor cinematography during performances
  • Clinging to characters who are no longer relevant to the show
  • Turning Will Schuester into the most horrible human being on the planet

It's bad, y'all.
I only really mostly watch Glee to see how terrible writing manifests itself, and take notes on how to not do that ever.

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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Mo0 posted:

From watching over my roommates shoulder, a lot of it boils down to giving up on some of the more high-falutin' aspects like "I wonder how the world would cope with having no power....." and being a Lost style BIG MYSTERY show and just making a solid post-apocalypse action thriller with a dose of sci-fi magic.

Don't get me wrong, they didn't undo the central conceit of the show, but they're focusing a lot less on the nitty gritty details of it and just embracing that it's sci-fi bullshit.
I guess I had better finish S1 of Revolution to join in the fun.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

muscles like this? posted:

The final season of Burn Notice is kind of weird because they were obviously acting off the idea that it was the final season but the finale still kind of comes out of nowhere for the last two episodes. Also Michael makes what is pretty objectively the wrong choice at the very end. They almost go in a really interesting direction but chicken out at the last minute as in the second to the last episode Michael quits working with his crew and joins the bad guys because he feels like he could actually do more good there. But then, nah, he changes his mind and goes back to his friends.
So basically if you told me the showrunners didn't know Burn Notice was going to be renewed for one more season and were cancelled at the eleventh hour, the same thing would've happened anyway. I gave up somewhere in S5 though, it was fun week-to-week which I guess was the whole point of the show but the "who burned me" plot of each and every season was always infuriating to watch.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
So after hearing how Revolution S2 is actually at least decent television, I picked up where I left off a few episodes into the second half of S1 (after the midseason break) and I think it really picked up (considering they were lurching around for the first ten episodes) and really opened up the larger world.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

zoux posted:

Homeland spoilers:
So they finally loving killed off Brody huh?
Oh good, time to catch up on S3 then.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Tuxedo Jack posted:

We made it like 20 minutes into the pilot. And we suffer through vanilla OUAT every week.
It picks up really quick starting with the second episode. And it will probably end up being one-and-done in 13 episodes, which is perfectly fine with me.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Spatula City posted:

No, this is a wrong opinion. The reason to be excited about Smith leaving is PETER loving CAPALDI. Doctor Who's going to be awesome next year.
Although, I heard bad things about this last season of Who, and while the first part of the season was pretty weak (outside of Dinosaurs on a Spaceship, that was the best), the second part was really good aside from the tangled mess of The Name of the Doctor. Cold War and Hide are probably in my top ten favorite Who episodes (though I've only seen revival Who, haven't gotten around to the older stuff, to my regret).
You liked Cold War?

Well, I mean it was okay.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

DrVenkman posted:

Psych does what it does well. It's utterly disposable but doesn't strive to me anything more. It's just a fun little show with some great chemistry between the leads and some comedic banter. It doesn't always land, and to be honest it's gone on a little too long now, but it's easy viewing.

In another news, finally made it onto Person of Interest Season 3. Man, Season 2 was pretty awesome. Again that's another show that knows what it wants to do and just does it. It knows where its strengths lie and they found a way to write around Jim Caveziel (I don't think he's in for some Anna Torv-esque turn around soon).
Nah, Caveizel has fun in the role I'd like to think and they got over that hump pretty quickly in S1, except everytime you think Reese has finally settled into everything the writers go and punish him for trying to be happy (see: the endgame arc this season and then the followup episode)

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
I mean it's not entirely off base that it's a spoiler where the simple reveal is the shocking bit, since you pretty much watch how Will basically goes batshit crazy over the course of the season. It doesn't make that development or that single moment less if you know or see it coming unlike other certain shock-spoilers.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Oh wow, didn't even remember Shameless was already back already. Was it just me or did it feel like it aired in the summer or something? Didn't feel that long.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

bobkatt013 posted:

An rear end in a top hat surgeon first had his arm chopped off by a helicopter. Then a couple of seasons later a helicopter fell on him. It was the same actor that got acid sprayed all over them and hit by a car.

Okay so I admit maybe when I was much younger I used to watch ER with my parents - so like the mid to late 90s - but I do not know this poo poo happened. This poo poo for real? (I can maybe believe none of that should happen except for the sake of shock value, so wtf?)

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Bown posted:

Even though I do think BSG became a pretty big mess somewhere in season 4 I was happy they went for total insanity instead of sticking with the military thing, which is overall my least favourite aspect of the show's framework.
Did they go overbudget by making it too military survival-ish and by having S1 be mostly engagements? I rather liked it with the character focus as well but I was kinda sad they toned it down and saved big spaceship battles only really for premieres and finales.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

CAPTAIN CAPSLOCK posted:

Does that show have a huge budget too? Because I know that it is a terrible show, I just thought it was cheap since it looks cheap. Camelot cost like 70 million dollars, had terrible writing and the sets looked like poo poo. Xena had better looking village / town sets than they did.
From what I watched of Camelot (like 7 or 8 episodes?) I did not even see 7 million dollar budget. Was it all location shoots and Eva Green's paycheque or something?

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Cactus posted:

I'm a Person of Interest convert now, having caught up to all but the last two episodes. It's good but you have to watch all the below-average episodes in the first season to appreciate the rest of it I think. There are too many bits and pieces scattered throughout that all add up to the character moments and mythology, and missing those would detract from when the show later draws on them to get good.

It's like a cross between taking the best elements from Lost, Fringe and Xfiles, and in its own sci-fi (I want to say exaggerated but... not so much) way it's quite relevant to stuff that's going on right now in reality. Some of the things they say in the first season, long before all this NSA stuff broke, are surprisingly prophetic.

If Person of Interest hadn't metaphorically grown a beard, but literally had instead, it would look like Brian Blessed.

Season 1 is only below average because it is followed by seasons 2 and 3 :colbert:

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
There's no thread for Intelligence?

Anyway I thought it was an okay start, props on not doing the whole origin story thing and dragging it out and just jumping it when the new girl shows up. Otherwise it was a pilot so who knows what else is supposed to happen and change between shooting that and them getting used to going into full production mode.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Great, now I want to watch Girls to satisfy my curiosity about it... because of this conversation. Lena Dunham :argh::argh:

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Manos del Sino posted:

I asked a friend this question who watches and is a fan of the show. She spent the next five minutes explaining how SHIELD is dull by design, largely due to Marvel something something and ABC something else something else, the gist being that SHIELD will have to suffer through two seasons of being milquetoast before anything interesting will even be allowed.

All I really took away from that is that SHIELD will almost certainly be cancelled before it gets good.
Unless people keep tuning in. Yeah, it's a shame since it's mostly Disney/Marvel who want to reserve all the big poo poo for the movies and so they aren't allowed to even cause a small ripple unless I guess a cabal of people working at the MCU offices allow it.

VDay posted:

I don't get why people think SHIELD would be a way better show if it was suddenly allowed to have actual superhero stuff in it. I mean, that'd certainly be neat, but there's nothing stopping them from coming up with actual interesting stories/characters/villains. If anything, having the freedom to make up their own poo poo should theoretically be better for the show than if they were forced to have Marvel C-List Hero #235235 on every week.

The show is thoroughly unexciting because the dialogue is usually somewhere between bland and outright awful, the characters are stereotypes who haven't gotten any meaningful development (yet?), the stories each week aren't particularly interesting, and the set design and action sequences are out of a bad 90's straight-to-VHS movie. All of those things can (and hopefully will) be improved without the need to have an Iron Man cameo or a mini-arc about some other Marvel super hero.
Well, there is that but I'm sure when it was announced there were hopes that the cast and the rest of the MCU would be more than just cameos and H-list Marvel characters.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
The only way the Dexter spin-off would be any good and not be Dexter Season 9: Sorry Guys But We're Back is if they literally did the entire trajectory of Dexter in reverse, so it begins with lumberjack Dexter being spit out of hurricane and washing up on shore in Miami.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
gently caress yeah the instructor for the class I'm taking (writing episodic television) decided to e-mail us a recommended show list. I am so :dance: after reading it:

quote:

CURRENT

Game of Thrones
True Detective
The Americans
Sherlock
Elementary
The Walking Dead
Breaking Bad
Justified
Longmire
Downton Abbey
True Blood
Orphan Black
Castle
Sleepy Hollow
The Blacklist
Arrow
House of Cards

CLASSIC/CULT

LOST
Deadwood
The Shield
Battlestar Galactica
Firefly
The West Wing
The Wire
The Sopranos

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

scary ghost dog posted:

Is this a community college course?
University, continuing education (at my alma mater). The syllabus is not like the list, we do have to do things that involve the production side of things and there are plenty of even simple exercises in re-writing stories in the form of: cop procedural, soap opera, etc.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

IRQ posted:

For an episodic writing class that list has a lot of highly serialized shows on it.
Episodic doesn't mean procedural but also nearly all the shows on that list that are serial are also episodic in nature, because TV is episodic in nature. That's why there are cliffhangers or the last minutes are always downtime even in a serialized show (or I am guessing in GOT why episodes end when and how they do vs. how the pacing in the books flow).

It's not a study of episodic television, it's a course for writing episodic TV, as in I will end up writing a bunch of fake TV scripts, loglines, trying to pitch poo poo and all that. I doubt much time will be done :spergin: about every detail about TV Canon. That's what TV/IV is for!

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

lelandjs posted:

I had a class just like this when I was in college and it was loads of fun.

My spec script was an episode of HIMYM (circa season... three? four?) where Barney's doppleganger shows up and pretends to be him while Barney is handcuffed to a radiator. It ended with Ted realizing he was still in love with Robin. I'm not proud of it, but it did get me an A and I think my professor (who worked with a few studios and had a ton of connections) actually sent it in to a few agents for me. Never heard back, of course.
clearly they read it because I mean, look at the stuff on HIMYM lately

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Well later seasons of Heroes is also proof Bryan Fuller obviously knows what he is doing because when he came back to do a few episodes they were surprisingly good.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Man, so how about that English adaptation of 19-2? Anyone else catch it?

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Rageaholic Monkey posted:

The sixth season had a Kal Penn cameo and a nuke going off in LA in the first few episodes, then it was mostly forgotten about for the rest of the season, which focused on James Cromwell as Jack's dad, the villain, right?
Wait, if that was season six then which season was the one with the Haitian? Didn't he like invade the White House or something and then Jack Bauer flew a plane from its undercarriage or is it all just melting together into one :twentyfour: blob in my mind?

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Deadpool posted:

Secretary of Offense came from when he was kidnapped and Jack rescued him and he helped Jack kick rear end.
Ahh, season 4 of :twentyfour:. That was when I first got into watching TV like a maniac. Ahh, the good ol' days. :allears:

Then after S4 ended I immediately barreled through S1-3 even though yes I knew what was coming, but didn't make go go :tviv: any less. (well, they still had some shockers I somehow didn't learn about until I saw them).

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
Yeah I was expecting spoilers but wow, spoilers.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

zoux posted:

C-dub renewed Arrow, Supernatural, The Originals, TVD and Reign (which is apparently good?)
Yes, according to some other people who recommend it, it is on Sleepy Hollow levels of insane:

quote:

Really? The two most insane shows on broadcast TV are time traveling Ichabod Crane stopping the apocalypse from the Headless Horseman who is also one of the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse.... and Mary Queen of Scots trying to stop the Pagans in the Blood Wood from killing everyone she knows and loves while also defending herself from the ghost/ghoul daughter of her evil nemesis, the gay icon Catherine di Medici.

also IIRC from watching the pilot, Catherine di Medici is Anne of Green Gables

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Deadpool posted:

The Sarah Connor Chronicles is many times better than any of the movies that came before or after it.
Yeah I don't think that would be hard to argue, except maybe having to defuse the people that feel like T2 is the be-all-end-all.

edit: in any case I feel like I should get around to watching TSCC again, it was definitely great but I feel like my younger self might've given less a poo poo about it at the time, at least until the end of it.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

DivisionPost posted:

The end of last season is a pretty strong hint that regardless of whatever differences they have in loyalty to the cause, Elizabeth wants to be with Phillip. To me, telling her husband/partner to "come home" in the Russian she's forbidden from speaking is about as good as an "I love you." But yes, it is a complicated situation -- honestly their love for each other was never in question, their problems came from the way that love opened them up to be hurt in ways they just weren't ready for -- and I'd be surprised if they no longer had any differences with each other.

However, Joe Weisberg spoke about the general gist of Season 2 in a recent interview. To paraphrase: If the first season was the story of a marriage, the second season would be the story of a family. So it's kind of a good news/bad news situation depending on how you feel about the teen actors. Personally I think they're doing a fine job, so I'm down to see them try and lift heavier material.
I think despite the 'issues' in S1, I thought The Americans was a much stronger show than Masters of Sex, but mostly on the point of me being a history major and that it wasn't as true to whatever events it was supposed to have happened (despite knowing you adapt things for entertainment and not appease curmudgeonly nitpicky history majors), whereas The Americans is more of a period piece and probably one of the closest things to talking about arranged marriages as you can get with North American fiction.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

DivisionPost posted:

That's why I was so into it. The spycraft stuff was cool, but you can tell that it really wanted to be a love story just as much as it wanted to be a spy thriller, and its love story is actually really drat clever...


No, I had the same complaints during that stretch of the season then realized it wasn't primarily a spy thriller and it's more set dressing and promptly thought I was stupid for thinking otherwise.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
I might give BSG another watch, maybe the finale wasn't as bad as everyone convinced me it was back when it aired. I mean, I liked the LOST finale, possibly in the same fashion.

...of SCIENCE! posted:

Basically despite a long storied history of sci-fi being a platform for religion/humanism the modern sci-fi fan gets fairly loving mad at anything other than :spergin: descriptions of space ship engines, deal w/ it atheism parables, and singularity proselytizing in their sci-fi programming.
Sci-fi fans literally are the worst and would rather you just :gizz: plot at them and have characters vomit hard sci-fi technobabble all day, that's why sci-fi is treated like a joke. I want a loving goddamn dense as gently caress character study in a sci-fi setting, if only to piss off sci-fi fans. Like a True Detective in space. True Space Detective.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

feedmyleg posted:

Have you read the True Detective thread? It's approaching early LOST days in there but going the other way. Everyone is so convinced this grounded character study is going to suddenly be crawling with Elder Gods out of nowhere. BSG talked about God's from minute 1. Hell, in season 1 or early two Six said she was an angel sent by God to help guide Gaius . Turns out to be true, despite gritty realism dude's wet dream.
Yeah I totally tuned out of the TD thread after seeing poo poo like goddamn Cthulhu did it theories or how Marty is some ringleader in a 5-man rape squad or some poo poo or that his daughter was going to be next or whatever bonkers crap is going on. I doubt any of that is going to pass, I mean, other than the occult-ish elements being at the forefront of the case because hell why not.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

precision posted:

I didn't like the way LOST ended, but I really liked the last episode.

Does that make sense?
Well, we can argue whatever either way but it was interesting they basically wrote the flash sideways as what if-character epilogues and we're watching that play out to the end (the church/moving on) while they just run the island plot to a finish and mostly each character in the present gets some closure.

Other than maybe the god cork, the island mysteries seemed mostly resolved, it was just that you had to look for clues rather than have a character vomit exposition.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

STAC Goat posted:

But are they really terrible science? Because I think that's the key here. Like imagine if the Walking Dead was abetter, more consistent show when it came to character drama and plot. If it lived up to the brilliant pilot episode. Those weirdos would still be in that thread obsessing over bullet counts, zombie biology, fence building, and proper presentation of diarrhea after eating expired food.
Those weirdos probably are the people who write fiction by slapping a bunch of TV Tropes tropes together (and spend more time reading about tropes than writing anything relatable) and being confused as to why no one takes them seriously.

I never get caught up on poo poo like bullet counts or how Carl can headshot zombies or unironically use the term 'plot armour' to explain why or how a character survives a hail of gunfire. It doesn't matter any way in something like The Walking Dead because sometimes you have to move the plot along. Granted there are probably smarter ways to go about it but it's secondary to what the creators want to achieve.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

zoux posted:

Yeah. Also I'm hella sick of Jean-Ralphio. He was great when he was used very sparingly but know it's just "Hey JR showing up saying swag or something".
The actor was better used on something like Undercovers. God, I know he is meant to be obnoxious on P&R but I swear sometimes they trot him out way too often and I just can't deal with it anymore.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
The Wolf Among Us has less instances of action moments ending up with having to restart the game only by virtue of the fact that in The Walking Dead, that is the whole ton of that series, but they aren't that intense in terms of how much input you need to put into it either way (TWD just has more 'game over'/fail states).

Also they are on ton of platforms, you could even get it on your iPad if you've got one.

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

DivisionPost posted:

Yeah, they should actually have a free demo available for you to try, which should be enough for you to get a feel for the mechanics and the story being told.

And I hate to further the derail, but I just got to the end of episode 1 and HO. LY. gently caress. I can name 3, maybe 5 long-form procedurals that had weaker first episodes, and at least one or two of those shows would be good shows. I won't promise that it'll land with you, but if you like detective stories in general you have got to try this game.

(Massive spoilers beyond episode one of the game) Granted, the big death at the end of the first episode is a character who plays a major role in the comic, and since this is a prequel I have no clue how this would stick; that might be a negative to some folks. But it really boils the blood for the second game, and on the whole I just can't wait to see how they dig out of it.
Re: your spoiler Episode 2 of TWAU is out, but I'm under the impression you haven't played it yet?

Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.

Twee as gently caress posted:

I don't know. I thought that up to the finale, the first season of Heroes was really solid (and just outstanding when it comes to a few episodes like Company Man). The big problem was that instead of following their original concept (every season following a different group of them), they decided to stick with the same people.

Having a season where anybody can die at any point because we'll most likely never see them again would have made the show a whole lot better. Hopefully this gets closer to the original concept and you have a competent team as well as an all-new cast with maybe a few cameos to bridge between them. Or, even better, a complete reboot.

Who am I kidding, though, they will gently caress it up for sure :rolleyes:
Yes if they actually did it anthology style with a new cast each season or something like originally intended it would've been good, but nope, off the rails it went, only occasionally Bryan Fuller would step in and put it back on the tracks so it would fly off them again.

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Sober
Nov 19, 2011

First touch: Life.
Second touch: Dead again. Forever.
They should reboot Journeyman.

And by that I mean wrangle up the original cast and crew.

amongst other shows. or give us a dvd release already

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