|
Gendo posted:Ugh Daltos. Perfect. Pick him up in the 4th, and make him sit on the bench and bulk up until Freeman is like 30. Then see if he understands passing schemes enough to win the starting job. I'd love to see him go to a good situation where they let him grow up a bit on the bench before they start beating his body into nothing. Like how Reggie Bush should have been brought up. What'll really happen is somebody is going to draft Manziel in the second, and start him way too early. Tamba Hali could put him in a wheelchair right now. 
|
#
¿
Oct 31, 2013 20:33
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 17:48 |
|
|
Elotana posted:Why does Manziel being six feet tall also make him glass? Dude led the SEC in rushing, he is really good at avoiding/minimizing hits. I realize I am an Aggie homer, but it's not like I don't think he's a risk. But if he busts it will be because he chucks the ball off his back foot into triple coverage too many times, not because he will explode after his first sack. Dude, he's like, 180 pounds. He looks like a stick figure. I don't think he gets up from hits like this, that every dual threat QB can get hit with at any time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-yrcES2vL0 Plus he's what, 21? Most QB's don't start until they are 24 at the youngest, and with his size, I wouldn't doubt it if he's 26 before he'd really start to show his potential and look serviceable. He needs to put on weight, get practice and preseason time, and get some experience with a team while keeping his head down.
|
|
#
¿
Oct 31, 2013 20:53
|
|
|
Still haven't seen anyone mention that Gabbert was the "smart" qb as well. Supposedly he was a real x's and o's kind of guy. Had the best chance at understanding defenses and making quality reads consistently like the highest tier of qb's can do.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 1, 2013 11:44
|
|
|
chilihead posted:You know in hindsight the easiest bust to predict was JaMarcus Russell. How did any GM think he was going to be an NFL worthy Qb, much less the number 1 pick! If Jamarcus didn't get picked 1st overall, he wouldn't have made it out of the top 5. His pro day was probably the best by a QB in history. Al was far from the only person high as could be on Russell. He was extremely raw, but guys with the physical tools to be the best of all time get drafted top 10 all the time even if they are complete projects, just because of the upside they bring to the table. It really isn't the Raiders who lost out on Jamarcus being a bust so much as it is football in general. If any player could have ever thrown an 80 yard TD bomb that came down on the receiver at the goal line, it would've been Jamarcus.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 2, 2013 23:03
|
|
|
Lol. Just stumbled across some footage of 6'5, 228, 4.6 40, high school, Jamarcus Russell. Crazy that he had great NFL size at 17. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KKeNRbSLLlI
|
|
#
¿
Nov 2, 2013 23:17
|
|
|
Declan MacManus posted:He's about as fleet of foot as Aaron Rodgers when he's at playing weight, he's just never at playing weight. Which at his stature was like, 260. He couldn't stay under 300 pounds for very long stretches once he was a full grown adult. I think he was up to like 320-330 at one point and didn't look anywhere near morbidly obese. So unbelievably huge.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 00:09
|
|
|
chilihead posted:This is what i mean, i am not even talking about the mental aspect or character issues. The guy couldn't make NFL throws, i'm not talking about arm strength. All i saw were simple reads and wide open passes at LSU. Do gms watch different college games then the fans? If a player has the confidence, intelligence and arm strength to make timing passes to well covered receivers his coach will call a few plays a game suited to that kind of play. I never saw any of that. I think you can draft guys in the nfl based on good physical attributes, but not quarterbacks. To use a current example i never thought Jake locker could make NFL throws, he is just not an accurate passer.  Jake Locker is 2nd in his draft class for qb rating right now, and 3rd in completion percentage. This in a class that includes a lot of hyped up guys like Pryor, Kaep, Newton, Dalton, Gabbert, and Ponder. He's a pretty drat good prospect there, rain man. If you can't see how a guy, who's range of attack is a 70x50 yard rectangle, is capable of "NFL throws," I don't even know. Russell didn't have to force it into coverage because somewhere in that massive loving box that he could put the ball in, someone somewhere had several steps on a defender. That's not a bad thing by any stretch of the imagination.  You're also not taking into account that 90% of QB's coming out of college have had nowhere near the level of training throwing the ball that they will get in the NFL if a team is grooming them as a starter. Top recruits at top schools can go their entire career without learning things that are basic NFL fundamentals, because they don't get burnt if they get lazy in college. I don't know that any player changes more from their 1st year to their 5th year in the NFL then a QB does. You don't draft a QB based on where you think he is now. You draft him based on where you think he'll be. There's going to be knocks on guys that will be elite one day, and you just have to accept that. It's not the Peyton Manning's a team drafts that say whether or not a GM is acquiring talent well. It's the Steve Young's.
Volkerball fucked around with this message at 18:12 on Nov 3, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 18:08
|
|
|
LiquidFriend posted:This really can't be emphasized enough. Hell, that was around the time that the Raiders had an Offensive Coordinator that was lifting play designs from Madden. Yeah, but it also needs to be mentioned that Gradkowski stepped into that same scheme and instantly had more success, so it's not all on them.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 3, 2013 19:37
|
|
|
Quest For Glory II posted:Not really. I mean he hadn't joined the Raiders until 2009, and he had one strong game against the Raiders and that's about it. His completion percentage in Oakland was under 55 and the team was 3-4 in his starts. I take it you didn't cross reference his numbers with Jamarcus's at the same time. *throws for 150 yards every game* *is a bad quarterback*  I know I'm setting myself up for an obvious joke here, but it's not a fair comparison. I would have cried tears of joy if the 2008 Raiders traded a 2nd for 2012 Alex Smith. And yes, things were bad in 2007 and 2008, but Russell was just as much of a gently caress up as that organization was.
Volkerball fucked around with this message at 08:33 on Nov 4, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2013 08:30
|
|
|
Doltos posted:He was. In terms of actual money, Bradford seems to be the worst bust followed closely by Russell and anyone else picked in the top 5 until the rookie wage scale fell in place. But in terms of actual hype and devastation to a franchise, Leaf takes the cake. This was just when the draft was becoming super popular too, so it hurt even more when all these talking heads were wrong about Leaf. I thought calling Bradford not just a lock-in bust, but the biggest financial bust in NFL history was the dumbest thing I would read all day, and then you said that Gallery was a worse pick for the Raiders than Russell.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2013 19:37
|
|
|
Doltos posted:Bradford is a bust due to being the highest paid rookie of all time and doing jack squat with the Rams. It's the same concept with Russell. The curse of the early declaration strikes again. Bradford is 25 and has a 90 QB rating with no receiving help. Chill out. quote:I like to put LT busts up there because casual fans hate offensive line picks in the top 5, especially if they end up sucking. Mandarich and Gallery were both seen as franchise saviors who the fans would tolerate a high pick going towards and they both failed spectacularly. Jason Smith would be up there except he never showcased top 5 talent and the Rams deserved what they got. No, Mandarich failed spectacularly. Gallery moved to guard, started for years, and was the best lineman on a top 5 rushing team. He was maybe worth a 2nd or 3rd. Not one of those guys who was never worthy of a roster spot like a true bust. Also, Jamarcus' laziness became a wedge issue in the locker room, and no FA's would sign, players quit on the team, guys were talking poo poo about each other on the record, etc. Of all the decade of sadness, 2008 and 2009 were by far the most publicly embarrassing. Then they cleaned house and the Raiders went 8-8 and swept the division in 2010. Jamarcus had a fair opportunity to make that team, but he showed up to camp fat, and got cut pretty early into camp after showing he wasn't going to be bringing any more effort than he ever did. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 19:58 on Nov 4, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2013 19:51
|
|
|
Disillusionist posted:Who is a bigger financial bust than Bradford? He signed the most guaranteed money for a rookie ever and has not had near the amount of success that would justify it. If his cap cost was lower they probably would've drafted RG3 and traded or just benched Bradford but he was too expensive to do that with. He's not terrible, but not good either and he costs way too much for what they get in return. I'm pretty sure that's why he specified financial bust. Jamarcus made 100k per completion, 10k per passing yard, and 2.1 million per TD pass. And Jamarcus had the physical tools to be literally the best QB of all time, and everyone was saying it then. How are people not getting this?
|
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2013 19:53
|
|
|
bhsman posted:Drafting wide receivers in the first round owns pretty hard, guys. Drafting 3rd round prospects in the first, however, does not.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 4, 2013 21:01
|
|
|
BlindSite posted:A lot of this is kind of repetitive of what's been said but I look at JaMarcus Russell as one of those guys who had the potential to be special but only if he was handled in the right way. I'd agree, but I'd argue that it didn't matter. It's not the coaching staffs fault when he's overthrowing or underthrowing his dump off passes by 10 yards that he's been completing since high school. The ceiling that the Raiders coaching staff would have allowed a raw prospect to get to was pretty low, but Russell came nowhere near it. quote:The Raiders seemed to be, lets give him the reins and hope everything grows from there. I could be wrong in that, but I don't ever recall hearing about Russell spending his offseason working his craft or seeing the Raiders play an obviously stringently tailored game plan. They gave him as fair a chance as any other team who drafted a qb 1st overall. They tried to act not desperate by bringing on an ancient Daunte Culpepper, in the hopes that he could start and mentor Russell. Russell started after the halfway mark of the season. That's about what any other team does. When you're that desperate for even one touchdown, there's only so long you can let even the rawest big time playmaker sit on the bench and develop. Oakland would've stabilized real fuckin fast if he started putting the team first. Winning builds chemistry.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 5, 2013 07:32
|
|
|
Me and Al want to make sure that we get this guy. 4:00 is a play that doesn't happen in the NFL, but drat does he show off some vision and instinct. Maybe when he's like, 28, he'll be big enough to play in the league? That's worth a 2nd, right? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ulHw2C3geo Look at the last defender who has a chance at touching him. Thomas faked inside making the defender hesitate, perfectly setting him up for his blocker. Defender is going down hard, and he's not even reaching towards Thomas. Thomas has to worry about squeezing against the sideline so he doesn't accidentally get tangled up in the block, while also needing to move forward quickly because there's defenders who have an angle on him downfield. He has the poise to slap dudes arm the gently caress away so that he has no chance of getting a finger on him, stay inbounds, not have any contact he didn't want with the block, and still burn anyone else who has a chance to make a play, all at the same time. There's 10 different things like that on this one play. Little stuff like that owns. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 13:44 on Nov 5, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 5, 2013 13:29
|
|
|
Gendo posted:We know he's an rear end in a top hat. He's leaving TAMU as fast as he's allowed to, Gendo. 
|
|
#
¿
Nov 9, 2013 21:55
|
|
|
TBC posted:He strikes me as a solid back up but not a franchise QB. Game manager type who has a strong arm but is more apt to check down on any given play. Poor pocket presence. He's also absolute poo poo in the second half this far. One of the youngest QB's in the draft going to Tampa where he will start day 1. I like it. Happy birthday to Teddy by the way. Go buy yourself some brews.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 11, 2013 00:38
|
|
|
I'd only want an RT that early if my QB was a lefty. Those top 5 overall tackles will all end up playing LT when they hit their prime anyways, even if they entered the league on the right.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 12, 2013 23:53
|
|
|
The Puppy Bowl posted:I'm pretty confident that Jamarcus can still throw a cheeseburger into orbit, not that he ever would. Wouldn't be the first thing Johnnie Lee Higgins couldn't catch in space.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 13, 2013 04:01
|
|
|
I'm all for the hippy names. Eagerly await star QB Moonbeam Supertramp.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 15, 2013 00:55
|
|
|
bhsman posted:His game against Alabama, helped obviously by a great game by Mike Evans, proved that he has the arm strength and can still embarrass a defense full of NFL-quality talent, and the success of guys like Brees and Wilson have proven that shorter QBs can work out. If we continue along this dream scenario and hire Sumlin as head coach then going with Manziel makes all the more sense. Maybe. Haha. This is peak Manziel right from the get go. Beautiful job getting into space on a dangerous run that would have him folded over backwards in the NFL. Followed up with two perfectly placed deep balls and a TD, all against Alabama's defense. That kid has better playmaking ability than Alex Smith right now. He's just too goddamn dangerous. He's gonna have to be given time to bulk up and adapt to the physical game, because he's so tiny. He's no good broken. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PJ8xVIgWEBY
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 08:56
|
|
|
bhsman posted:I can't tell if you're agreeing with me, being incredibly facetious, or both. He is awesome, but he's a huge gamble. I'd be very worried if the Raiders drafted him. Look at the situation he finds himself in at 5:40. It shows how good his presence is, but they're going to be scraping him off the field if that happens and it's Geno Atkins coming down the middle onto him. Pocket quarterbacks throw it away or dump it off when they feel that kind of pressure to avoid big hits. Manziel likes to dance around with it which makes him a dynamic playmaker, but the defense is just allowed to kill him if they catch him in it. Tom Brady rules won't apply to Manziel trying to stiffarm players at the line of scrimmage and fighting for yards. I feel like that's a bad strategy for success as a QB, especially a tiny one.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 09:21
|
|
|
bhsman posted:No major disagreement there; that entire play was incredible to watch live but I'd rather see it coached out of him at the pro level. That said, that ability to keep the eyes downfield in the face of a defender and lob away is what I'm talking about with his vision. He got lucky that one of his own came down with that pass, though. He deserves some credit for putting the ball on target too. I think he can make plays in that vein in an NFL backfield. He just has to get rid of it or go down in a lot of situations where right now he'd try to make a play. And if he fucks it up while learning how to do it, it isn't a good completion percentage that's at stake.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 09:35
|
|
|
NippleFloss posted:Russell Wilson is the best analogue, and he's doing just fine in the NFL despite people predicting that leaving the pocket would get him killed. Wilson is built like a brick though. He's just short.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 22:15
|
|
|
Arschlochkind posted:Everybody concerned about Manziel's character, what would you say about the authenticity of his smile? Seems legit.   
|
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 22:24
|
|
|
Can we talk about Manziel's shoes? I don't like a quarterback who wears fancy shoes. At all. I mean Can you believe that poo poo? You think you'd see Unitas out there in those? Montana?  Nope, that kid is trouble. Give me the 6'3 220 pocket QB from Nebraska.
Volkerball fucked around with this message at 22:58 on Nov 18, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 18, 2013 22:53
|
|
|
It's funny to me the parallels between Manziel and Joe Namath when it comes to being put in a spotlight at a young age and having moral crusaders scrutinize his every move. I hope he goes to the Jets, wins Super Bowls, and they change his nickname to Broadway Johnny.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 19, 2013 04:34
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:I distinctly remember Crabtree being called "Generational" all the way up until right before the draft It was because of that game against Texas when he blew the gently caress up. Right then everyone decided Crabtree was far and away the best WR prospect. I don't think he was ever projected to go any higher than the Raiders at 7 though. Everyone put him there. There were a few random thoughts that perhaps the Raiders would see Maclin or Harvin as the top receiver in the draft and get them at 7 instead, but NOPE.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 20, 2013 23:16
|
|
|
TheChirurgeon posted:Yeah but Oakland drafted DHB at #7 We had this Al Davis.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 20, 2013 23:26
|
|
|
SlipUp posted:Yeah, he broke permanently now. I personally think that if the Raiders drafted Crabtree the conversation over who was better would be totally different. Hands can be taught but speed cannot and bad coaching will ruin prospects. He's broke permanently now? What? Your argument belongs in preseason 2009. The bottom line is that even for what DHB was sold as, a fast, tall guy with no experience and bad hands, he quickly showed that he was far behind. Nobody thought he was so bad that Louis Murphy would be better than him at every phase of the game as rookies. He dropped balls when there was no one ten yards around him almost every time out. Lost huge games like that. He was dominated at the line of scrimmage, and his routes were godawful. You expect better from a UFA that earned a roster spot. The fact that he's come from that to a great run blocker, a solid route runner, and has developed beautiful body positioning, enough so to warrant another contract with another team after he got cut, is really a testament to how good With the Crabtree thing, I'm glad we didn't pick him. The 2009 Raiders were hosed as a team, and a rookie holdout with the spotlight on him making noise wouldn't have helped the team rebuild. DHB is a class act, and I don't think there's many players who could be as under the microscope as he was his rookie season, performed as god awful as he did, and continued to come in every day and give it 100% effort without any drama. That doesn't change the fact that as far as quality of prospects goes, 4 receivers could have been drafted with the first 6 picks, and the Raiders still would have been fools to think DHB was the best receiver available.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2013 07:20
|
|
|
SlipUp posted:Are you allergic to comedy? He hate me. Yep, exactly. His first two years, none of his bad habits were corrected, and then his third season, he got 1,000 yards receiving, and then, AAA DOLFAN posted:Actually I remember during the draft specifically Deion sanders (or cris carter maybe?) said "Oakland just picked a receiver who is better than their top 10 pick!" I remember Cris Carter on draft day laughing about the DHB pick screaming how he wasn't even all-ACC. He was HONORABLE MENTION. After his rookie season, I thought Murphy was going to be a top two receiver in Oakland for a while. Sucks he didn't work out. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 23:12 on Nov 21, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2013 23:04
|
|
|
SlipUp posted:his coach was fired for the second time in as many years. It's great you think Knapp is super awesome and all but even he can't whip a project into shape for the rest of his career in one season. It's all there in the post you dismissed with half of a witty one liner. The first season DHB played under Knapp was 2012. His second and third season, the offense didn't change. Hue Jackson was the offensive coordinator and head coach each of those years. You're associating DHB with the shitshow 07-09 Raiders, but all his development was under the 2010-11 8-8 top ten offense Raiders. I mean as a top ten pick as a rookie, other than like the Falcons trading up for Julio Jones, you couldn't really get a whole lot better off.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 21, 2013 23:41
|
|
|
Blitz7x posted:I'm not ready for the Raiders to grab another WR in the first round They'll pick a FS while Clowney Lotulelei's his way on by. 
|
|
#
¿
Nov 22, 2013 23:21
|
|
|
The Puppy Bowl posted:Oakland really picked a crap year to out do expectations. Clowney the Raider would be poetry. They can always trade a couple 1st round picks for him when he's in his 30's.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 22, 2013 23:30
|
|
|
bewbies posted:In honor of this comparison I feel we should all go look at the 1989 draft and salute our monitors. Fuckin Cowboys traded the rights to Steve Wisniewski to the Raiders on draft day? I did not know that. Goddamn, life was trying hard to make them even more dominant than they ended up being. Wis-Stepnoski-Allen in the middle. 
Volkerball fucked around with this message at 02:27 on Nov 24, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 24, 2013 02:25
|
|
|
Paperback Writer posted:Been thinking about the Raiders draft... I think all the analysts saying the Raiders should grab a receiver in the 1st aren't paying attention. Denarius Moore has blown up this season, but it's not getting any recognition because he's not putting up numbers in bulk given he's catching the ball from two rookies. Streater is Pryor's favorite receiver, and he's always in position to make a play even though he was a UFA just last season. Andre Holmes played so good in training camp that he got suspended for the first 5 games of the season, and they still kept him signed as a UFA until he came back, and threw him right on the field. He's playing great. Brice Butler looked like our annual 4th round steal in preseason. Criner could still develop. I mean if it's a generational prospect, sure, but Lee or Watkins are just going to be competing for time with everyone else, and slightly younger and behind. I think McKenzie will probably be looking for a "difference maker" in the front 7. Anthony Barr and CJ Mosley stand out. With the cap space, they can afford to sign another Pat Sims caliber dude or two, and a DE if they don't get Clowney or Tuitt. Then like, 2 guards, a free safety, a running back to "compete" with Jennings and Murray, and some more defensive depth. Other than that they could pretty much roll with what they've got and I'd expect them to be in playoff contention week 17, and have plenty of cap space left to resign the real talent among all those kids long term. Coordinators and coaching staff are all good for once too, so there'll probably be some continuity next season. I want to see who wins the QB competition next preseason. Volkerball fucked around with this message at 06:42 on Nov 25, 2013 |
|
#
¿
Nov 25, 2013 06:40
|
|
|
I hope Cutler completes the Palmer career arc and "retires" soon after a disagreement once he's tagged. Then he can go to like, Buffalo.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 27, 2013 13:55
|
|
|
Regnevelc posted:Dude, you have no idea what you're doing. Bears fans are the worst. They really are. I live in northern Illinois, and every day at work, someone is telling me that they want to let Cutler go and roll with McCown because he's better. Packers fans are a bit less insufferable, but of course they get upset over stupid winning team problems. Rams fans. He was cool I guess. Think he got statutory rape charges at some point after high school tho.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 27, 2013 22:35
|
|
|
swickles posted:True, you only stab people in the parking lot instead of shooting them. Actually Raider fans have been the ones getting stabbed more often than not. That's why they don't have the preseason 49ers/Raiders game anymore. We can't even take solace in at least being good in a knife fight these days. Really gives you some perspective to be a part of something so pitiful.
|
|
#
¿
Nov 28, 2013 10:18
|
|
|
|
| # ¿ May 10, 2024 17:48 |
|
|
Grozz Nuy posted:Welp, I'm sold. So was I. 
|
|
#
¿
Nov 30, 2013 06:48
|
|