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I guess the Sheriff is now called Captain Cockblock?
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Nov 13, 2013 18:58
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Rockopolis posted:Well, I suppose there is such a thing as too much paranoia. You are only responsible for a childe for so long. It is your duty to teach them the masquerade and in the beginning you are responsible for their every action. Our Sire is quite obviously past that point. I've always seen it as him/her planning to ask permission, but getting carried away. And any Sire, if they're Camarilla, would be ashamed of their Childe for embracing without permission. Actually, if it wasn't spur of the moment, I would guess our sire was anarch. Still not the best choice to make a childe in a Camarilla city, on the verge for war or not, but most Anarchs are young and rash. As to how the Prince knew, a Vampire spending a lot of time with a human and not even making them a ghoul is /very/ uncommon. (Especially to the point of sex. Vamps don't do sex. They can, by using blood points, just like they can simulate breathing or a heart beat, but they don't really get anything out of it) So that would be a reason to keep tabs on the Sire, and Nossies are always willing to help out with surveillance, for a price. (By the way, I am no expert, and a lot of this is my own musings. I have just been thinking about this bit, since it really is an unusual event) Thesaya fucked around with this message at 19:08 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 19:01
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Vicissitude posted:Not much to elaborate on. Lucita hated him, and he was a very powerful political animal. While a Sabbat Bishop is the equivalent to a Camarilla Prince, a Cardinal is sort of between a Prince and a Justicar. They control entire regions, though generally not entire countries or continents. I think Moncada was an exception, and his control was largely over most of Spain and Portugal. There were other Bishops below him, but he was pretty much the one in charge. Oh I see now. See, when you said Bishops and Cardinals, I thought that meant the Sabbat was running the Church in the Iberian Peninsula. That'd Be wild...
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Nov 13, 2013 19:05
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I thought it was a one night stand sort of thing, but I guess nosy informants and a cockblock squad being on call is a plausible explanation  .We're going to need a and  smilie for this game.
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Nov 13, 2013 19:37
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In reference to who our Sire was, if I remember right it was brought up in another thread that, based on our character's blood-pool and the Vampire PnP rules, our Sire actually had to be a significantly powerful early generation vampire. Not Antedeluvian, but up there. Which would make the whole thing with Lacroix straight up executing him/her really weird, but we can probably chalk most of that up to Troika giving us the greater blood-pool as a gameplay decision. A good one, in fact, because there are far worse things a vampire in this Era could be raised as...
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Nov 13, 2013 20:21
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I'm not sure what the actual story is behind the embrace of the main character, other than the back of the game's box says "SEDUCED IN A DARK ALLEY ...". It's left up to the player's imagination. Beats me how LaCroix's minions knew about it, but it's worth noting that a good amount of time passed in between when we first see the clock (12:37 AM) and the last time (3:46 AM). So it's not unthinkable that someone could have figured it out and had the time to act on it, somehow.
gatz fucked around with this message at 21:04 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 20:58
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Interesting so far, liking the usage of speech bubbles to give the screenshots a graphic novel feel very much. Hopefully this'll get past the hotel and into LA proper.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:29
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Vander posted:Oh I see now. See, when you said Bishops and Cardinals, I thought that meant the Sabbat was running the Church in the Iberian Peninsula. That'd Be wild... Oh, no. The Sabbat are pretty much just dickbags who co-opted the terms from the Catholic church. Very few vampires work in that circle, since the Inquisition is still pretty much alive and well in the form of the Society of Leopold, mortal religious fanatics and monster hunters. Thesaya posted:You are only responsible for a childe for so long. It is your duty to teach them the masquerade and in the beginning you are responsible for their every action. Our Sire is quite obviously past that point. I've always seen it as him/her planning to ask permission, but getting carried away. And any Sire, if they're Camarilla, would be ashamed of their Childe for embracing without permission. Yes, in the Camarilla, the childe basically gets a few years (2-5) to come to grips with their new state of undeath, settle affairs from life, and get an idea of how Kindred society works. They generally get a 'coming out' party where their sire presents them in Elysium (neutral political ground) to the rest of the vampires in the city, or at least whoever would usually show up to such a gathering. Above all, though, are the Traditions that make up the Masquerade, the whole veil that vampires put up to hide their presence from the mortals. The Third Tradition is Progeny, which states that you have to "seek permission from thine Elder" when you wish to create a childe. In this day and age, it means the Prince or other authority figure, but presumably back in ye olde thymes, it meant your sire. But since you have to be more careful in the Final Nights, the Prince gets the final say since it's his/her city that'll have another potential Masquerade breach if your childe screws up. And yes, vampires can do the sex. They can spend blood to get their respective organs working again, but since there's no payoff from the act (they can't climax v  v ), there's really no point unless they're using it as a cover to feed from a mortal.More on the Anarchs later, once we meet them. They really are the third party of Kindred politics, neither Camarilla nor Sabbat, and get about as much respect as any other third party in US politics 
Vicissitude fucked around with this message at 00:03 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 23:53
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gatz posted:I'm not sure what the actual story is behind the embrace of the main character, other than the back of the game's box says "SEDUCED IN A DARK ALLEY ...". It's left up to the player's imagination. Beats me how LaCroix's minions knew about it, but it's worth noting that a good amount of time passed in between when we first see the clock (12:37 AM) and the last time (3:46 AM). So it's not unthinkable that someone could have figured it out and had the time to act on it, somehow. The best thing about the intro is that it's exactly the same when the player clan is a nosferatu, complete with the sex sound effects. So you were seduced by - and presumably 'got busy' with - something that looks like this:  Hell of a one-night stand...
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Nov 13, 2013 23:53
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Rockopolis posted:I thought it was a one night stand sort of thing, but I guess nosy informants and a cockblock squad being on call is a plausible explanation Actually, I was going to go on into theories about scenarios if it was a one night stand, but it was getting way convoluted. I just like speculating I guess.  Although, I must specify, even if it had been hours or even the next night, that discovery was quite fast, unless someone was keeping tabs on the sire. I mean, until they left the room, I can't think of any way for a person to guess he was going to embrace the human instead of just having a snack, or even making her a ghoul. (Unless he was under surveillance )
Thesaya fucked around with this message at 23:57 on Nov 13, 2013 |
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Nov 13, 2013 23:54
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Thesaya posted:
The Nosferatu know everything, and they know it fast. Everything. Yes, even that.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:56
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TheMcD posted:The Nosferatu know everything, and they know it fast. Everything. Yes, even that. Which is pretty much what I said in the original post.
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Nov 13, 2013 23:58
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About the origin of your sire: it's been a while since I played Bloodlines, but I don't think the game ever tells you anything about your sire's identity or his/her decision to sire you clandestinely - which makes sense for some of the clans like the Brujah (anarchists), Malkavians (lunatics) or gangrel (lone wolf types); but it doesn't make sense for a Ventrue or Tremere clan member due to their clans being quite hierarchical. So I'm a bit disappointed that we never learn about your undead parent or his/her motivations for siring you...
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Nov 14, 2013 00:03
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Thesaya posted:Which is pretty much what I said in the original post. Sort of lost track of the flow of conversation amidst the theories. So yeah, I guess I agree with you on that one - it's definitely Nosferatu that got that information to LaCroix, and he, being the manipulative bastard he is, wittered an opportunity to prove his strength to the general vampire populous. At least up until Nines screwed all that up.
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Nov 14, 2013 00:04
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double nine posted:About the origin of your sire: it's been a while since I played Bloodlines, but I don't think the game ever tells you anything about your sire's identity or his/her decision to sire you clandestinely - which makes sense for some of the clans like the Brujah (anarchists), Malkavians (lunatics) or gangrel (lone wolf types); but it doesn't make sense for a Ventrue or Tremere clan member due to their clans being quite hierarchical. So I'm a bit disappointed that we never learn about your undead parent or his/her motivations for siring you... I suppose it could all be put down to; the start of the game is not making much sense, lore.wise.
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Nov 14, 2013 00:05
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It's probably so vague in large part because of the need to accomodate all the playable clans with one beginning/series of cutscenes. Getting into who your sire was and the nature of his or her motivations would probably introduce stuff that would work for a few clans but not for others. But yeah I guess one of the only let downs about this games story is that for a setting that is supposed to have personal horror as one of the primary themes, it never really gets into how you feel about your abrupt death and losing your old life, and just why you of all people were chosen to have all this crap thrust upon you. insanityv2 fucked around with this message at 00:14 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 00:08
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Thesaya posted:Although, I must specify, even if it had been hours or even the next night, that discovery was quite fast, unless someone was keeping tabs on the sire. I mean, until they left the room, I can't think of any way for a person to guess he was going to embrace the human instead of just having a snack, or even making her a ghoul. He most certainly was under surveillance. Someone was bound to be observing him and waiting until he fucks something up. It could have been Tremere, trying to portray Ventrue as reckless and irresponsible. It could have been the Prince, disposing of a disloyal servant or too ambitious Primogen. It could have been someone else, trying to curry a favor from someone or even taking revenge for some petty slight. Or your sire's domain was just too nice and someone else wanted it.
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Nov 14, 2013 00:34
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Just wanted to say thanks for doing this LP, and I hope you're able to finish it! There was one video LP a year or two ago that unfortunately fizzled out, so hopefully you're able to break the curse. I think the WOD is a super-cool setting and I wish a game developer would consider picking it up again for a modern generation system.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:20
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Halloweenhead posted:I think the WOD is a super-cool setting and I wish a game developer would consider picking it up again for a modern generation system. Personally, I hope for a Bloodlines-like cRPG, but with wraiths. Of course, I could as well dream of being declared the Emperor of the World - it's as likely to happen.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:27
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double nine posted:The best thing about the intro is that it's exactly the same when the player clan is a nosferatu, complete with the sex sound effects. So you were seduced by - and presumably 'got busy' with - something that looks like this: Not in the Bloodlines, but in the roleplaying game the Nosferatu get an Obfuscation ability to pass themselves off as a normal if ugly person for awhile. I have vague memories of there being a magic sparkle effect during the intro as a Nossie that implies a power like that falling off.
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Nov 14, 2013 01:59
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Yay, Bloodlines!  Some more prelude stuff: V:tM:B was intended to be released during the Final Nights era of the World Of Darkness. Basically White Wolf (the creators of the game) had written all this metaplot that was getting way too topheavy/intricate to deal with. Conveniently, like much of the 90s goth scene most of their lines were organized around some vague-yet-imminent End Times event. So they decided to streamline/rework everything into the new versions of the games...but before that, they'd cash in and pull the trigger on all those Chekhov guns. Of course, due to the technical issues with working on a beta Source engine (plus Valve holding them up to not blow the Source wad earlier than HL2), the game got released a full year and a half or so later than intended--the Endtime books had already been released. Oh well, still got a great game out of it! One thing to remember with the embrace: vampires are basically people. So while they generally fall into some trope behaviors (especially since the childer are selected due to existing capabilities), they can and do have their own motivations, foibles, and tendencies to just plain gently caress up. Maybe you were the result of a calculated risk gone awry? Or just a moment of fleeting passion for a dead heart? Who knows...the net result is that you're a vampiric blank slate for the game to guide on its rails. Could have been better done, but, eh. As for the setting: LA up until recently was Anarch central--known as the "Anarch Free States." Neither Cam nor Sabbat held sway there. Much like with the Ravnos, the Cathayans were invading and upsetting the established vampire (kindred) control--and so the Camarilla stepped in and seized power. It's a very tenuous situation--the cathayans are only held back, not beaten. The Anarchs are beaten up but still feisty and independent, so the Camarilla control is really more theoretical than absolute...but we'll see more of that later. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 02:06
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Conskill posted:Not in the Bloodlines, but in the roleplaying game the Nosferatu get an Obfuscation ability to pass themselves off as a normal if ugly person for awhile. Alternatively, booze is a hell of a thing.
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Nov 14, 2013 03:11
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Maybe they were really friendly, had a great personality, just fun to be around?  I miss Nozzie already.  Why did you have to go and get yourself executed?
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Nov 14, 2013 03:52
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double nine posted:About the origin of your sire: it's been a while since I played Bloodlines, but I don't think the game ever tells you anything about your sire's identity or his/her decision to sire you clandestinely - which makes sense for some of the clans like the Brujah (anarchists), Malkavians (lunatics) or gangrel (lone wolf types); but it doesn't make sense for a Ventrue or Tremere clan member due to their clans being quite hierarchical. So I'm a bit disappointed that we never learn about your undead parent or his/her motivations for siring you... If I recall correctly, the Tremere Regent mentions something about your sire having been an Anarch, but possibly this only applies if you, yourself, are a Tremere. Conskill posted:Not in the Bloodlines, but in the roleplaying game the Nosferatu get an Obfuscation ability to pass themselves off as a normal if ugly person for awhile. The ability is called Mask of a Thousand Faces, and yes, I also remember this happening. GrimRevenant fucked around with this message at 04:36 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 04:16
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Thanks for the informative post. OAquinas is one of the guys who chimed in the the Redemption LP about Vampire lore. If you've got questions, he might(?) have answers. GrimRevenant posted:The ability is called Mask of a Thousand Faces, and yes, I also remember this happening. I want to say that the plus patch makes this happen, but I can't tell you what the nos intro looks like without it installed.
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Nov 14, 2013 05:19
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Okay, for what it's worth, this is what the tabletop Obfuscate powers are: 1 - Cloak of Shadows - You're invisible, as long as there are shadows, you remain quiet and motionless, and the person looking for you doesn't have Auspex 2+. 2 - Unseen Presence - You're invisible, unless you speak, attack, or otherwise draw attention to yourself. Auspex 3+ pierces the cloak. Roll Wits + Stealth if you could potentially draw attention to yourself, like stepping on a creaky floorboard or something, otherwise you get detected. 3 - Mask of a Thousand Faces - Create an illusory visage. Roll Manipulation + Performance (difficulty 7). The successes you get, ie the number of dice that read 7 or higher, determine how complete the illusion is. You can even mask yourself as someone specific, or someone more attractive than you are. Each point of Appearance difference between you and the illusion costs an extra Blood Point. 4 - Vanish From the Mind's Eye - You can disappear from right in front of someone. Roll Charisma + Stealth vs the target's Perception + Alertness. If you succeed, you disappear from their view, even if you're in the open. 5 - Cloak the Gathering - You can apply any lesser Obfuscate power you know to a group of people equal to or less than your Stealth rating at no extra cost in blood or willpower. All members must adhere to the rules of the lesser power or be revealed.
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Nov 14, 2013 05:33
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GrimRevenant posted:If I recall correctly, the Tremere Regent mentions something about your sire having been an Anarch, but possibly this only applies if you, yourself, are a Tremere. This would make sense - in theory Tremere outside the clan power structure need to be crushed underfoot for the good of the Clan, but in practice Anarch Tremere were largely ignored unless they start rocking the boat in favour of going after Sabbat-aligned Tremere of House Goratrix. Even after House Goratrix were wiped out in '99 (long story), old habits die especially hard for vampires. That said, if the PC's blood pool is a canonical indication of generation instead of just a gameplay thing, there'd have to be a story as to what such a high-generation Tremere was doing outside of the Clan proper. If, on the other hand, the Sire is always Anarch, you've got some real political bullshit going on. If the Sire was Camarilla it's business as usual, but executing an Anarch in a still largely Anarch-ruled city for not following Camarilla laws? That's a slap across the face for the Anarchs, and it could be that the Prince recognized his making a point was being taken as a declaration of war and backpedaled furiously in allowing the PC to live.
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Nov 14, 2013 08:01
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Tehan posted:
That's the most questionable bit, yes. I'll explain a bit since the game doesn't really touch this at all: In Vampire, your strength is determined by how far you are from Caine, the mythical(?) first vampire. The badass blood god mentioned before? He was 3rd generation, or two steps removed. The Storyteller's Guide (DM guide) has this to say on fighting Caine, should you meet him: "You Lose." Now, Vampires can only hold so much useful vitae in their system. The lower your generation (that is, the fewer steps you are from the big guy) the more you can effectively hold. So a "default" character of the 13th generation can hold 10 "blood points." Your character in this game can hold 15--so assuming there's no videogame translation fudge factor going on, your character is 8th generation, making your sire 7th (your sire always being one step less than you, of course). Most vamps of that level are old as hell, powerful, and are generally considered elders. So running out and siring some random, getting caught, and then letting yourself get offed...well, it strains the narrative a tad. Generation also conveys some other benefits. Starting at 9th gen, you can "spend" more blood per turn, allowing you to heal faster, pump up your physical capabilities quicker, and use more disciplines simultaneously. And if you're trying to Dominate someone of a lower generation, it just plain doesn't work. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 09:09
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OAquinas posted:And if you're trying to Dominate someone of a lower generation, it just plain doesn't work. Which is problematic for a lot of the "The PC is a super low generation" theories, since the PC can be dominated at certain points.
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Nov 14, 2013 09:39
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Undead Hippo posted:Which is problematic for a lot of the "The PC is a super low generation" theories, since the PC can be dominated at certain points. I wouldn't say its problematic--if anyone could have the generation required to do so, it'd be that person. But more on that when we get to it.
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Nov 14, 2013 09:42
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Isn't there a hilarious combination of rules and rituals that allows you to effectively lower your generation at will unless the storyteller invokes law 0 to stop you?
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Nov 14, 2013 11:23
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Last Transmission posted:Isn't there a hilarious combination of rules and rituals that allows you to effectively lower your generation at will unless the storyteller invokes law 0 to stop you? Possible but unlikely. To increase your Generation, you need to consume the soul of a vampire whose Generation is higher than you. You do that by drinking his blood. Like, all of it. Of course, the drained vampire is unlikely to cooperate with you and it is hardly the only problem with this option. Diabolism is considered to be a terrible crime by Camarilla - mostly because the sect would collapse in several days if vampire youth was allowed to kill and consume their elders. It also leaves a stain on your aura, visible to anyone with Auspex, so you can't just ambush your victim in his lair and hope no one knows.It vanishes after several months, but it's hard to avoid other vampires too long before they grow suspicious. Diabolism also tanks your Humanity, as it involves soul-related shenanigans. Besides, earlier generations are so overpowered you can't hope to diabolize them even, if you somehow find them. The 3rd one, the Antideluvians, are more like gods than monsters. Also, thr lower your generation, the more potent blood you need to sustain yourself - at some level, humans are not enough and you need to feed on other vampires.
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Nov 14, 2013 13:22
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OAquinas posted:As for the setting: LA up until recently was Anarch central--known as the "Anarch Free States." Neither Cam nor Sabbat held sway there. Much like with the Ravnos, the Cathayans were invading and upsetting the established vampire (kindred) control--and so the Camarilla stepped in and seized power. It's a very tenuous situation--the cathayans are only held back, not beaten. The Anarchs are beaten up but still feisty and independent, so the Camarilla control is really more theoretical than absolute...but we'll see more of that later. Thank you for this, it explains so much! I am trying to remember if this was mentioned in game, if it was I don't remember. If it wasn't, I wish it was. It really does not make sense for it not being included though, most likely I am a silly and just forgot about it.
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Nov 14, 2013 13:48
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OAquinas posted:That's the most questionable bit, yes. I'll explain a bit since the game doesn't really touch this at all: Thank you! This is exactly what I was referring to, but never having played Vampire I didn't have the practical explanation handy.
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Nov 14, 2013 14:55
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Last Transmission posted:Isn't there a hilarious combination of rules and rituals that allows you to effectively lower your generation at will unless the storyteller invokes law 0 to stop you? Lowering your generation is one of the huge temptations of the vampire setting. It's also extremely difficult. As mentioned you have diablorie, which has the issue of finding someone of lower generation who you can overcome as the first of several problematic hurdles. But, it's there, and any vamp can (theoretically) ride that train to a more powerful you (while tossing your tenuous grip on humanity off the side). Blood Magic is ridiculously broken in the setting--that is, it's quite overpowered on paper (a good storyteller usually slaps hefty restrictions on it). Since it's so flexible, WW indulged and created rituals for damned near everything, from grooming your hair to creating hunter-killer autonomous stakes to lowering your generation. Which isn't to say its any easier than just drinking an elder dry. There are two non-diablorie related rituals to lower your generation. The first involves acquiring several hundred "blood points" from lower generation vampires (doesn't have to be the same one), then drinking a poisonous concoction derived from it that inflicts unsoakable aggravated damage, and then making an extremely difficult skill check. Obviously, this one has any number of limiting factors on it, the first being the massive amount of blood required. The other ritual isn't specified. It just involved the utter annihilation of an entire bloodline to raise one vampire from 4th to 3rd generation. Probably safe to say that this one isn't too repeatable either. Aside from this, there is a Blood Magic (Thaumaturgy) power to temporarily concentrate your blood and simulate being a lower generation. This only lasts a few hours at best though, and it doesn't affect the normal siring process--anyone embraced will be the regular generation you'd normally produce. Still, could be a nasty surprise for people trying to get the jump on you. Rockopolis posted:There's also blood bonding, isn't there, where drinking another vampire's blood (but not all of it) multiple times makes you devoted to them, right? Yes. Drinking a vamp's blood creates successively escalating feelings towards them. If you do it on three separate nights, you're "blood bound"--you feel desperately in love with the vamp and want to please them. Depending on your personal willpower/morality you may have a varying degree of independence and willfullness, but you're pretty much owned at that point. Generation doesn't shield you from this; a week old 13th gen can enslave a hoary 5th gen elder in theory. You can also only be bound to one vamp at a time. So yeah, mutual bond situations can and do exist, but you're playing with fire there. Imagine your most obsessive, stifling ex. Now imagine that ex in a relationship where the feelings are mutual. How could that possibly go wrong? OAquinas fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 16:46
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Diablerie is a capital crime amongst the Camarilla. Now the Sabbat on the other hand! You can also share a vampire's blood between a few diablerists if you want to boost your chances of subduing them, but I believe they must be 2 generations above everyone for there to be a level gain. Also, there are stories of an impatient higher generation newbie skipping too many generations down (i.e. 13th to 9th). A little after that the diablerist started having episodes where they'd display the mannerisms and personality of the victim... DeusExMachinima fucked around with this message at 17:27 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 17:23
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This poster loves police brutality, but only when its against minorities!
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I think I'm just going to go with "The developers wanted the PC to have a big blood pool to do fun stuff with" rather than giving it a basis in fluff or PnP mechanics.
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Nov 14, 2013 17:29
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There's also blood bonding, isn't there, where drinking another vampire's blood (but not all of it) multiple times makes you devoted to them, right? I've wondered, can that be mutual, can you do the blood brothers thing (I've been reading a lot of wuxia novels lately)? Is it like getting hitched?
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Nov 14, 2013 17:36
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Last Transmission posted:Isn't thgenerationrious combination of rules and rituals that allows you to effectively lower your generation at will unless the storyteller invokes law 0 to stop you? In one of Gehenna's (Vampire Armageddon, basically) sourcebook's scenarios, Tremere itself uses a blood ritual to lower his own generation in order to dominate Tzimisce (who's gone totally Akira and infected the whole world with Vicissitude). The whole thing is probably the Muchkiniest thing ever (in order to dominate every single Vicissutude infected human being and order them to take a walk under the sun, they use a combination of the human genome mapping and a "everyone and they're grandma's family book" the mormons have lying around for some reason) That Italian Guy fucked around with this message at 18:18 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 18:15
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Rockopolis posted:There's also blood bonding, isn't there, where drinking another vampire's blood (but not all of it) multiple times makes you devoted to them, right? Yes. Sabbat actually does that with entire packs - they mix their blood in the same container and drink it. Three ceremonies and everyone is Blood Bounded with each other. This makes spying on them a really difficult task.
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Nov 14, 2013 19:20
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