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Yay, Bloodlines!  Some more prelude stuff: V:tM:B was intended to be released during the Final Nights era of the World Of Darkness. Basically White Wolf (the creators of the game) had written all this metaplot that was getting way too topheavy/intricate to deal with. Conveniently, like much of the 90s goth scene most of their lines were organized around some vague-yet-imminent End Times event. So they decided to streamline/rework everything into the new versions of the games...but before that, they'd cash in and pull the trigger on all those Chekhov guns. Of course, due to the technical issues with working on a beta Source engine (plus Valve holding them up to not blow the Source wad earlier than HL2), the game got released a full year and a half or so later than intended--the Endtime books had already been released. Oh well, still got a great game out of it! One thing to remember with the embrace: vampires are basically people. So while they generally fall into some trope behaviors (especially since the childer are selected due to existing capabilities), they can and do have their own motivations, foibles, and tendencies to just plain gently caress up. Maybe you were the result of a calculated risk gone awry? Or just a moment of fleeting passion for a dead heart? Who knows...the net result is that you're a vampiric blank slate for the game to guide on its rails. Could have been better done, but, eh. As for the setting: LA up until recently was Anarch central--known as the "Anarch Free States." Neither Cam nor Sabbat held sway there. Much like with the Ravnos, the Cathayans were invading and upsetting the established vampire (kindred) control--and so the Camarilla stepped in and seized power. It's a very tenuous situation--the cathayans are only held back, not beaten. The Anarchs are beaten up but still feisty and independent, so the Camarilla control is really more theoretical than absolute...but we'll see more of that later. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 02:11 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 02:06
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Tehan posted:
That's the most questionable bit, yes. I'll explain a bit since the game doesn't really touch this at all: In Vampire, your strength is determined by how far you are from Caine, the mythical(?) first vampire. The badass blood god mentioned before? He was 3rd generation, or two steps removed. The Storyteller's Guide (DM guide) has this to say on fighting Caine, should you meet him: "You Lose." Now, Vampires can only hold so much useful vitae in their system. The lower your generation (that is, the fewer steps you are from the big guy) the more you can effectively hold. So a "default" character of the 13th generation can hold 10 "blood points." Your character in this game can hold 15--so assuming there's no videogame translation fudge factor going on, your character is 8th generation, making your sire 7th (your sire always being one step less than you, of course). Most vamps of that level are old as hell, powerful, and are generally considered elders. So running out and siring some random, getting caught, and then letting yourself get offed...well, it strains the narrative a tad. Generation also conveys some other benefits. Starting at 9th gen, you can "spend" more blood per turn, allowing you to heal faster, pump up your physical capabilities quicker, and use more disciplines simultaneously. And if you're trying to Dominate someone of a lower generation, it just plain doesn't work. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 09:14 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 09:09
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Undead Hippo posted:Which is problematic for a lot of the "The PC is a super low generation" theories, since the PC can be dominated at certain points. I wouldn't say its problematic--if anyone could have the generation required to do so, it'd be that person. But more on that when we get to it.
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Nov 14, 2013 09:42
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Last Transmission posted:Isn't there a hilarious combination of rules and rituals that allows you to effectively lower your generation at will unless the storyteller invokes law 0 to stop you? Lowering your generation is one of the huge temptations of the vampire setting. It's also extremely difficult. As mentioned you have diablorie, which has the issue of finding someone of lower generation who you can overcome as the first of several problematic hurdles. But, it's there, and any vamp can (theoretically) ride that train to a more powerful you (while tossing your tenuous grip on humanity off the side). Blood Magic is ridiculously broken in the setting--that is, it's quite overpowered on paper (a good storyteller usually slaps hefty restrictions on it). Since it's so flexible, WW indulged and created rituals for damned near everything, from grooming your hair to creating hunter-killer autonomous stakes to lowering your generation. Which isn't to say its any easier than just drinking an elder dry. There are two non-diablorie related rituals to lower your generation. The first involves acquiring several hundred "blood points" from lower generation vampires (doesn't have to be the same one), then drinking a poisonous concoction derived from it that inflicts unsoakable aggravated damage, and then making an extremely difficult skill check. Obviously, this one has any number of limiting factors on it, the first being the massive amount of blood required. The other ritual isn't specified. It just involved the utter annihilation of an entire bloodline to raise one vampire from 4th to 3rd generation. Probably safe to say that this one isn't too repeatable either. Aside from this, there is a Blood Magic (Thaumaturgy) power to temporarily concentrate your blood and simulate being a lower generation. This only lasts a few hours at best though, and it doesn't affect the normal siring process--anyone embraced will be the regular generation you'd normally produce. Still, could be a nasty surprise for people trying to get the jump on you. Rockopolis posted:There's also blood bonding, isn't there, where drinking another vampire's blood (but not all of it) multiple times makes you devoted to them, right? Yes. Drinking a vamp's blood creates successively escalating feelings towards them. If you do it on three separate nights, you're "blood bound"--you feel desperately in love with the vamp and want to please them. Depending on your personal willpower/morality you may have a varying degree of independence and willfullness, but you're pretty much owned at that point. Generation doesn't shield you from this; a week old 13th gen can enslave a hoary 5th gen elder in theory. You can also only be bound to one vamp at a time. So yeah, mutual bond situations can and do exist, but you're playing with fire there. Imagine your most obsessive, stifling ex. Now imagine that ex in a relationship where the feelings are mutual. How could that possibly go wrong? OAquinas fucked around with this message at 18:01 on Nov 14, 2013 |
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Nov 14, 2013 16:46
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Roobanguy posted:I always just assumed it's because they arn't as healthy as other people. v Could be it. The blood meter can be stopped right before it runs out, which doesn't make sense for leaving someone alive. More likely it's the amount of blood you can take from the person without killing them--which for healthy individuals is a fair amount, while for someone probably suffering from some maladies the blood loss would be felt much more acutely. It doesn't help that all of the game's homeless population isn't the "just got evicted/living out of my car but still trying to work" types but rather the stereotypical wino living in a box. While this is all Troika in their interpretation, it's pretty consistent with White Wolf's "subtle" social classifications. Did we mention the Ravnos clan had the nickname "gypsies" and had a blood weakness where they HAD to commit some crime or face a skillcheck malus?
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Nov 17, 2013 08:28
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Added Space posted:If I recall, higher humanity means that you need less blood overall, you can feed off animals more easily, or even potentially give up blood all together in favor of some other ritual. Eh...then you're getting into the whole vampire enlightenment/golconda herring that was a big focus of the earlier editions. They downplayed it heavily in revised. It's largely mythical and largely regarded to be as legitimate as the whole breatharian thing by most vamps. Humanity has a few other effects: if you get sent into torpor (basically a coma) it controls how long it lasts; a humanity/path 10 guy is knocked out for an hour or so. A Humanity 1 beast gets sent under for centuries or millennia. Hope you have friends/loyal retainers! Ultimately it's irrelevant to Bloodlines--as mentioned, Humanity is the only game in town and it's been simplified to "kill people outside of combat area/do bad things = lose, do good things = gain" and its sole effect is to game-over you if you start with the wanton slaughter.
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Nov 18, 2013 17:38
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Night10194 posted:I've always gotten the impression that the Paths are fancy ways to get around the fact that humanity is extremely inconvenient and uncomfortable for vampires. Like, take that Noddist stuff. 'You might be a soul-sucking monster who exists as a bane on humanity as punishment for the first murder but that's totally not evil I swear. Because reasons.' Humanity--even among Sabbat--is the prevalent morality code. Paths are an interesting take on the whole "immortal blood drinker with awesome powers" mentality--these creatures who think in terms of centuries or millennia, who regard individuals no more than you do the free breadsticks at the Olive Garden. Such thinking is truly alien to the human condition. Not all vampires can get there, but for the strong-willed ones it is possible to completely discard their original morality for the code of their Path. Hell, there are regular humans who can do it, though they're mostly insane. As with anything in Vampire, it's all in how the character is presented and played. If you do it poorly you just have an rear end in a top hat looking for a get-out-of-assholery-free card. If done well, you have this powerful, ancient being whose motivations are even less relatable than the most out-there bad guy. Who could kill you or ignore you based on some characteristic or behavior that you don't even know matters. If they're tangential to the story you'll be giving them a wide berth. If they're your adversary...you'll probably be more than a bit creeped out.
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Nov 19, 2013 06:52
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Have LaCroix say hello to our little friend! I'll hold off on the thinblood rundown until the game has a chance to explain a bit more, but I will say that some of the unlucky SOBs do get oracular abilities like the lady with the odd accent here. Guess Troika couldn't resist pulling that old chestnut out when given the chance...
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Nov 22, 2013 09:02
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LeJackal posted:It takes a certain amount of blood and expenditure of Willpower to create and maintain ghouls, so not really. I think that's just the new system. Old one was just give blood->make ghoul. A blood transfusion would enable the ghoul to not have to actually drink the blood, but otherwise its no different. Now, being a ghoul is just a physical condition. The person becomes a bit tougher and stronger and stops aging, but outside of the feelings engendered by the blood bond (if blood was received several times) there's no special relationship between a ghoul and the donating vamp. So making a bunch of people a ghoul doesn't do much except expend a bunch of vitae on nothing. If you were trying to save a bunch of lives then it could be a useful trick, I guess.
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Nov 22, 2013 23:25
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Feinne posted:Lilith is also pretty important in at least one of the Gehenna scenarios, where I'm pretty sure she teams up with Lucifer against Caine and offers the PCs an out to the fact that vampires are doomed by becoming things like her instead. Yeah, I think that scenario is Caine and Lilith duking it out in an alley, and the players can help one or the other (or neither). Gehenna is a very silly thing.
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Nov 23, 2013 07:02
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Getting into the Demon line here, but basically God created the world and the Angels administered it. Perfect concentric spheres, celestial clockwork, bountiful earth, etc etc... Then Man came, and the angels were jealous. That sprouted the seeds of the first murder, which basically broke the universe and accelerated the schism of Angels between Lucifer's camp and the loyalist angels. Fast forward a few more years/centuries and you get all out war between what are effectively demigods wielding the power of creation itself. God meanwhile is just presumably watching all this. In the end Hell is created as a prison in the deep shadowlands and all but one of the rebel angels are sent there. God hasn't done much of anything since (that can be traced to him/her/it). OAquinas fucked around with this message at 09:18 on Nov 23, 2013 |
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Nov 23, 2013 07:35
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Ah right. I knew the jealousy thing didn't feel right completely; they chafed under wanting to help more. In fact, they used the power of their human allies' faith to turbocharge their abilities in the subsequent Angel war. Of course the loyalists had a conduit to God...
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Nov 23, 2013 17:52
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Ah, thinbloods. First, to address the revenant point made above, they would be dhampirs, not revenants. Effectively semantics at that point in terms of their actual differences, but they aren't the same. Now, Rolf was likely a bog-standard 13th gen vampire--the default for the modern setting. The 14th gen CAN be a "normal" vampire, albeit a very weak one, but they are highly likely to be clanless caitiff (that is, they don't get a standard clan "weakness" and discipline set, but can learn all disciplines at a rate in between in-clan and out-of-clan for regular vamps). They also have a chance to be thin-blooded. A 14th gen thinblood is very weak, and embracing will fail half the time--E was a very lucky guy to not just die. The upside to being thinblooded is that the sun doesn't hurt you as much (though it will still kill you...slower). It IS possible that lily could be a lower-gen vampire who just happened to be thin-blooded (its a flaw that sometimes happens), but given the setting it's unlikely. This means E is 15th gen. They are ALWAYS thin blooded, unable to sire (it always fails; 15th gen is the end of the road), and are barely vampires--they can usually pass for human with exceedingly little effort. And in the Final Nights, they also have some interesting abilities. Rosa is an example of one who has premonitions or visions of the future. As mentioned, some can even become "alive" enough to bear children, which are born as the half-vampire dhampirs. Like Blade, they can daywalk and use basic vampire abilities. Unlike Blade, outside of that they're far weaker than real vampires and would get their rear end handed to them. In the clan novels a Tzimisce elder, who's explored all sorts of exotic body shapes and structures becomes interested in finding out if it could learn to bear offspring by dissecting pregnant thinbloods. It ends about as well as you might think. The vampire end-game, Gehenna, is either a fairy tale or something to actively work on averting depending on your politics. But one of the harbingers of it is "The Time of Thin Blood" coming, where a lot of them would be found. So the unofficial policy of most cities is to purge them whenever they're found--plus as Rolf said, they're liabilities. Weak. As for the relative scarcity of higher-gen vampires earlier, in the earliest years control was tightly held over one's progeny. The second generation was betrayed and destroyed by their childer. That's a lesson they took to very closely, and their childer after them. After things break down and the 3rd generation goes into Torpor/Hiding/etc, the elders still try to control siring to prevent the growth of powerbases against them. There's a reason it's one of the break-this-and-die vampiric Traditions/Rules/etc. Still, generation creep is inevitable. In the middle ages a 12th gen was the bottom of the barrel, lowest rung. It took a few hundred years, but now 13th is...but at this point both human and vampire populations ramp up precipitously, and so the proliferation of the 14th and 15th generation happened very quickly.
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Dec 2, 2013 05:33
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insanityv2 posted:Also something I never got: You can only have one blood bond at a time (unlike the Sabbat's Vinculum, which is a lesser bond but able to be created with any number of people). It's possible Mercurio is bound to some other lackey of LaCroix's but is made available to him. It's also important to remember that this devotion isn't mindless. It's colored by your personality and your own interests. Sure, you might lie down in front of a truck to save them, but you might not if they aren't in danger and you have a healthy self-preservation sense. Of course, less obvious dangers to yourself you'll eagerly walk into if they want you to. That said, Mercurio is low cog in La Croix's machine. He probably gets his blood from a bag and hasn't actually seen LaCroix in person for a while. So he gets his orders and that's more or less it; LaCroix's intentions and extended plans are probably not communicated. Also, if Mercurio is feeling particularly spurned or ignored, its possible he could act out of spite to gain his bondholder's attention. Imagine an ignored clingy obsessive significant other and what they might do. So its really not a conflict when he gives help to someone who's done him a solid favor, even if the Prince apparently sent them on a suicide mission. If the PC asked him to expressly act against his domitor it probably wouldn't fly, but offering his procurement services and area knowledge is certainly a-ok.
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Dec 3, 2013 00:41
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Kind of interesting on how Old Mage dovetails nicely with how Demon works--where the "fallen" angels would literally gain power and abilities off of the collective belief of the populace who had Faith in them. But we're waaay off the reservation for Bloodlines.
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Dec 9, 2013 01:49
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Siegkrow posted:I'm glad my single question brought this thread back from non-updatey based torpor None that are explicitly Lasombra, no. The problem with their signature discipline--Obtenebration--is that it's a PITA to model properly in a game--especially on the receiving end.
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Dec 13, 2013 05:50
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insanityv2 posted:guys stop fighting you're making my mascara run Sabbat chronicles do tend to be more shoot/stabby than Cam ones, but there's still plenty of politicking in the Sabbat. You could do infiltration of a cam city (recon/low key nature emphasized), some ancient elder was unearthed or whose plan was discovered and you need to act before Bad Things Happen, actions against rival packs, or even just good old fashioned intracity politics. Just because they don't have the cachet of rarified Elysia doesn't mean there isn't a give and take for influence and resources. As for the Masquerade, they may not follow the Camarilla Tradition per se, but it IS one of the rules that Caine (supposedly) handed down eons ago. It's still frowned upon to be obvious and vulgar in full view of humans, especially on your own turf--"don't poo poo where you eat." Breaches in cities you're attacking, however, are a nice way to keep the Cam occupied by forcing them to clean up your mess in addition to the damage you wreak. As for the Path of Night, by killing someone you're ending and limiting the evil you inflict on them. Killing is so gauche and unimaginative for that set of morality. It could be justifiable (outside of combat; survival is paramount of course) if you kill to inflict evil on another. But that would probably still be a Conviction roll. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 22:43 on Dec 13, 2013 |
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Dec 13, 2013 22:41
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Captain Oblivious posted:Cythereals game sounds like a grand old time. Definitely not very World of Darkness, but good fun all the same. Nah. Demon came at the very tail end of the oWoD, and while it was received with more than a bit of skepticism (really? playable demons? Are you trying to fish for sensational news stories?) it was a damned well put-together line, from top to bottom. Unlike the older games that had already all but died in-house, Demon's survival was more or less assured in the new setting.
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Dec 15, 2013 06:27
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Tehan posted:The for-dummies explanation that I've been told is that reality works on consensus, so if you're a Mage and do obvious magic in front of people that don't believe in magic, their first reaction is calling bullshit, and then reality takes notice and agrees it is bullshit and smacks you upside the head for your bullshit. As for True Fae, think of them as homicidal non-euclidean aliens.
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Dec 15, 2013 10:05
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Shugojin posted:Wait, why Tremere? Tremere are very institutional--if you're in a city and don't have a hand held by the local chantry, they'll work on fixing that. Abruptly. (keep in mind the clan "weakness" is their 1-step bond to the Pyramid) It's both subtle and overt, and new players can have a problem with it. It could also be because blood magic is broken as gently caress. You start throwing that around and you get Mystic Mike's House of Trinkets at the best case.
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Dec 18, 2013 00:55
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Transmetropolitan posted:
They more or less wrote themselves into a corner, or rather under towering masses of metaplot. They were also keenly aware of the current systems' failings (esp.regarding combat) so they were working on a whole new edition/release. However, never being ones to pass up marketing cash-ins they decided to pull the trigger on all the end-of-the-world scenarios that were built up over the previous half-decade. So they get one last cash infusion from oWoD, wrap up a bunch of dangling plotlines, and get to release a brand new line of games and sourcebooks, all within a year or two. A fresh slate onto which to sell splatbook after splatbook.
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Dec 20, 2013 02:01
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Gimble can be tough because he does a nice amount of Lethal damage and if you're not combat spec'd at all and/or haven't gotten the hang of Bloodlines' combat mechanics (which is entirely possible for this early in the game) he's the first unavoidable combat you can experience--the beach house has a number of stealth/persuade/etc options to do it blood-free. It's close quarters, a bit surprising, so by the time you get your bearings you could be down a good bit of health. That said, if you have any combat skill at all (and aren't using the .38) he drops fast.
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Dec 22, 2013 21:39
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Transmetropolitan posted:Re: Knox's assignment That optional dialogue is only triggered in the first meeting with him, I believe--so its pretty unlikely you'd have the prereq stats to see through his dumbass veneer. Usual disclaimer of "Not sure if Wesp changed this" applies, of course.
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Dec 26, 2013 16:26
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crime fighting hog posted:
Was the plan. CCP Games just gutted the Atlanta office right before Christmas. Atlanta being the offices of White Wolf and the heart of WoD online development, that's not a good sign. Someone noted that the WW buyout included a contractual obligation to develop a WoD mmo...but there's no release date. So as long as they can claim it's "in development" they can sit on it in perpetuity. Their ill-advised/failed FPS Dust has sucked up all the non-eve devs and creative oxygen.
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Dec 27, 2013 05:29
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MartianAgitator posted:As far as Cthulhu-monsters, a cross-setting book called "Blood-Dimmed Tides" had the Chulorvia (pronounced with a hard "ch"). They were tentacle aliens in the vague shape of a human who lived under the sea and, IIRC, wanted to infect all of humanity to make us like them. I think they win "Most Like H.P. Lovecraft's Fever Dreams". Re Onyx Path: these weren't staff voluntarily leaving for the that WW lifeboat company. These were outright staff layoffs by CCP. That they occurred at the primary office for the development of that IP and MMO? That can only be good news for the imminent release of said MMO!(that has been in development since 2009) Its not hearsay that the layoffs happened; I'll admit to the net effect being speculation. But DUST being an underwhelming title and the WDO game being largely Atlanta-driven are not. I'll just leave it as "I'll be shocked if this thing sees the light of day within 2 years." http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2013-12-12-ccp-re-evaluates-world-of-darkness-looses-more-staff OAquinas fucked around with this message at 01:58 on Jan 2, 2014 |
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Jan 2, 2014 01:55
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Vampire and Mage at least have some written crossover for them: Blood Treachery was the book. Basically went over rules for vampire blood addicted mages (and how it slowly kills them). It's still more than a bit janky to pit the two together--I believe it advocated for using one or the other system as a "base" rather than do a straight mix--but it's there. Plus it was a good look at the "heretical" Hermetic House and its relations with the main Order in contemporary times. Interesting aside, because Hermetic magic is based on occult symbolism (mandalas, diagrams, etc) and so is Tremere Thaumaturgy, the non-mage vampires get a chance to do countermagic against Hermetic magic sendings only. Nice bit of internal consistency.
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Jan 2, 2014 18:47
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Rockopolis posted:
...aaaand this is another reason why crossovers suck. "I'll just drink this vial of blood my werewolf buddy gave me, hello +3 potence!" Any competent ST would either allow it and say "it tastes terrible, and you don't get any benefit/at most it's just useful for sustenance but can't power disciplines," or allow it and make your vamp puke blood for the next 1d10 hours. Ugh. Java chat flashbacks.
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Jan 3, 2014 20:28
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I'm sorry to interrupt, but can I get an allied Wraith to do that one for me?
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Shugojin posted:There's not much point to Humanity losses when you can just hit a button in one of the clubs and wander off to make some coffee to get it back That only works once per club. Of course, there are 3 of them in the game.
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Jan 7, 2014 18:53
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There is no darker nephandi hellscape than the digital spiritworld reflection of 4chan.
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Jan 8, 2014 06:32
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Traxus IV posted:
The sound files for her are labeled that, so it was a deliberate act by Troika.
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Jan 8, 2014 09:04
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Xarlaxas posted:
More or less it. There'll always be motivation to not want to get poo poo on for all of eternity, but take your average human activist: depending on the cause/progress made after a while almost all of them eventually succumb to cynicism (believe in the cause, but don't believe anything will work) or they get jaded and just don't care anymore or even see it as embarrassing. Now apply that to creatures decades or centuries old who are even more inclined towards a static existence. The desire for a better life is certainly there, but it gets a bit tricky to avoid the ancient leadership tropes that have defined vampiric existence. Inertia is a hell of a thing. Now there are the 'lucky' few who avoid those failings, who can stay focused and motivated towards their cause/goal. Those are the ones who are truly dangerous. Smiling Jack is one of these (though arguably he's just in it more for the stirring poo poo up and not the politics). OAquinas fucked around with this message at 17:08 on Jan 8, 2014 |
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Jan 8, 2014 17:05
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Pretty much that. Insanely powerful, near-antediluvian aged vampires can be hazardous to try and soul-eat, even if you get lucky and stumble onto one after a werewolf pack slaughter. I actually have the WOD book that first describes him; it's very telling that half the vamps in that book have "humanity 0" as a trait. They didn't quite have their systems fleshed out then...
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Jan 10, 2014 05:07
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Vicissitude posted:That must be an older edition. Vampires with a morality rating of 0 fall completely to the Beast. They're called Wights and are just animals who hunt, feed, sleep, rinse, repeat. They may have some quirks of their old personalities showing through, usually related to their Nature (ie, an Autocrat-natured vampire would spend his time meticulously organizing his lair, pushing rocks into symmetrical piles and whatnot), but they're no longer capable of reason. There's no coming back from that. Wassail! It was the first "a World of Darkness" book that did some minor infodumps on vampires around the world. I don't think they had the idea of alternate Paths/Roads fleshed out yet (or at all) but they still wanted to convey that these were ancient creatures not bound by any sort of conventional morality; alien beings to neonates and humanity.
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Jan 10, 2014 16:14
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Gantolandon posted:I really, really dislike Sabbat, because they are pretty much walking Masquarade violations, to the point that it seems strange no one discovered vampires yet. Creating shovelheads involves mass kidnapping, Embracing their victims and burying them on the graveyard. The ones strong enough to dig their way up are used as foot soldiers. As Jack mentioned earlier, they are told almost nothing or outright deceived about the extent of their powers. Here's the thing: you have to have a sense of scale. If this was done nightly then of course you'd have issues. "Realistically" shovelheads are seen as disposable and hard-to-control distractions: you create them on the eve of an attack or as a diversion for some other ploy, but otherwise the tactic isn't used on a regular basis. You're also releasing them directly on the heads of an enemy or their interests--their entire point is to tie up resources and draw off security. Generally they aren't treated like vampiric X-Com terror missions where its some random location--a large city might have a few dozen or a hundred vamps, so a purely random target in a geographically large area won't serve to pull your enemies out of hiding as effectively as, say, assaulting the Toreador primogen's favorite club. The sabbat may not clean up after themselves too much when attacking Camarilla holdings (they leave that as to the Cam to further drain resources), but in their own cities they tend to keep their nature hidden--or at least hidden until its too late for their victim. Its not as much of a rigidly enforced code as it is a survival guideline/ease of hunting issue. As for the It-X, WW, etc--absolutely yes, and it would be a great addition to any Werewolf or Mage game. Running a Vampire game? Doesn't apply then. Or maybe have them show up as a wildcard in a siege. When you worry about the meta implications over the needs of the game/campaign, you're going in too far.
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Jan 23, 2014 00:53
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Kopijeger posted:Therese Voerman wanted to remove the ghost so that the hotel could be demolished and the property redeveloped. Could she plausibly do that without meeting with business partners or local officials during daytime? Lacroix has a big office and the guard at the front desk knows who he is, so he is a public figure from the perspective of mortals. Which course of action would be easier for him:stay in the shadows and have a Dominated board of directors run the company on his behalf, or run the company himself even though he cannot meet anyone in daytime and eventually would have to pretend to be his own son? This is where ghouls come into play, plus you'd be surprised what you can accomplish through email and phone calls. Voerman had one ghoul at the blood bank; who's to say she doesn't have another one for financial dealings? Hell, doesn't even have to be a ghoul--paid assistant works just as well. A vampire who tries to do it all will fail. Vampire the game is at its heart a political game (among a few other things)--making use of contacts, allies, and leverage to accomplish your goals and defeat your enemies. The most powerful vampires never have to get out of the coffin in the evening. As for daytime operations, it gets exceedingly difficult for vampires of low humanity to remain awake during the day. Still, not out of the question for a phone call or other low-effort activity. I've never heard of that "spend a WP to make plastic surgery stick" rule. As far as I know/can recall, the only ways to permanently alter a vampire's appearance are Vicissitude (by a lower generation wielder), some thaumaturgy rituals, having all of your skin eaten off by tiny flies, and sometimes aggravated damage. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 00:44 on Jan 24, 2014 |
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Jan 24, 2014 00:28
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JT Jag posted:Ah, so the old dramatic "turn someone who is dying into a vampire to "save" them" deal is a bad idea. And that's besides the moral implications. Pretty much this. Though giving them blood so they can heal themselves can sometimes suffice. As for the WP thing--didn't realize it was a VtR change; been a while since I read that one. Yeah, that's a new thing for the new line--probably to get away from sharpie tattoos.
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Jan 24, 2014 03:31
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apostateCourier posted:I've always heard that you have until the next sunrise. That's straight hearsay, though. It's storyteller fiat. Generally "before the corpse is cold" is a good measure.
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Jan 24, 2014 03:38
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Vicissitude posted:Yeah, the Inquisition was largely just regular people flocking to the Church. Very few mortals have True Faith at any level, let alone enough to cow a vampire into submission. Granted, it was more common in the Dark Ages than nowadays, but still a very, very rare state of grace. You get enough people mobbing a lair with torches and stakes, you'll have yourself a vampire barbecue before the day is out. Especially if its actually during the day.
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Feb 2, 2014 07:45
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UrbicaMortis posted:Do they give any examples of characters with that rating or is it pretty much just Jesus? Pretty much Jesus. The Storyteller system traits are 1-5 for the range of human ability, with 5 being the best in the world. 6-10 are superhuman levels of whatever it is--inhuman strength, ethereal and terrible beauty, complete skill mastery, or holy-book-level-capital-P Prophet faith. True Faith is especially rare even at low levels (because of the Technocratic consensus and that Lucifer has been draining the pool to starve his Tormented buddies); so the bigger problem is that a vampire would probably get fried to a crisp even getting near a guy with TF 10. I guess you could call that getting cured of the Embrace.  Edit: VVV Golconda was a much bigger focus in the earlier editions. It a mythical way of curing the Embrace or completely caging the Beast. There was even a secretive "Third Way" sect called the Inconnu consisting of mostly withdrawn Elders that kept out of most politics and spent their time supposedly researching and seeking Golconda. The "suggested" mechanics for it start with "Get Humanity 10, then do some sort of spirit quest" and get fuzzier from there: it was intended to be an open-ended questmachine for STs. When attained, if you're still a vampire you wouldn't need to feed anymore (at least, you wouldn't lose BP just from waking at night--disciplines still need juice to work), you'd be immune to Rotschreck (fire fear), and might even be able to daywalk...ST fiat as to what the benefits are. Of course, if you lost humanity or otherwise stepped out of the "humble monk" archetype you'd fall from grace and be a regular vamp. In later editions (Revised/V20) both the Inconnu and Golconda became much more mythical and served as more of a "yeah, right" punchline than a serious thing to seek out--though of course the option is still there. OAquinas fucked around with this message at 17:11 on Feb 2, 2014 |
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Feb 2, 2014 16:53
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Halloweenhead posted:Just posting again to say I <3 this thread. I like that it's a mixture of discussion about the actual videogame and then a TON of rants about the crazy convoluted source material. Las antis do exist, they're just fairly rare. And yes, they're generally the best of both worlds--the haughty nature of the Lasombra with the pure politicking of the Camarilla. If the ST is ok with it, go wild...fish malks are terrible because they're ridiculous, stupid, a poor representation of the horror that is mental illness, and tend to just be massive attention whores. A Lasombra antitribu can be a bit of an attention grabber if played poorly, but unless you're using shadow tentacles more than a bad anime it shouldn't be too bad.
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Feb 4, 2014 03:19
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