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feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Arquinsiel posted:

1: depends who you ask. 2: were at war against Germany as part of the terms of the Continuation War ending. 3: From 1944-1945.

It's just lacking in detail, but essentially true(-ish. Mostly).

Well, to be fair, Nazi Germany, that regime well known for its Bolshevism? If they did mean that it's pretty badly phrased.

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feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Flesnolk posted:

Does anybody? For how important it was politically and given how it was the origin of the British Army as we know it today not a whole lot of people seem to actually be all that interested in it for some reason.

I do, but then I'm more interested in the political aspect. The only time England's been a Republic after all :black101:

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Koramei posted:

Was there actually major opposition to the occupation of Japan? I mean it obviously didn't all go perfectly, but I've heard it described as "the only successful foreign occupation in history".

That seems a bit hyperbolic given how much history there is in the world. It's just usually foreign occupations result in the occupiers eventually no longer being foreign (see 1066 for example).

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

AATREK CURES KIDS posted:

English is a bit like this, but only when touring foreign countries, since regional dialects cover large areas. If I ever meet another Albertan while abroad the speech becomes a lot faster and slangier, and I'm sure the effect is more pronounced for less Americanized dialects of English.

That depends on the country in question. My mum couldn't make head nor tail of my Geordie granddad for the first decade or so of her marriage. And let's not even mention Rab C Nesbitt...

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

wdarkk posted:

They'd need long ranged four engined heavy bombers and local air superiority wouldn't they? That seems to have been rather a sticky problem for them.

You don't really need 'long range' if you're trying to mine the Channel from bases in France. It's like two miles across.
Dead right on the 'air superiority' thing, though, and relatedly 'sea superiority' in order to prevent minesweepers doing their thing - the US had more or less knocked the IJN out of commission by the end of the war, that was never more than a pipedream for the Germans and would have been damned hard even if they'd had air superiority.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Fat Twitter Man posted:

There are a couple of historical records from the POV of the Sea Peoples. An epic poem which was written down a few centuries later and survives to this day details the Akhaioi, a bunch of pirates and raiders, destroying and plundering the Hittite city of Wilusa. There are also first-person accounts by some of the Shasu nomads who overran the Egyptian province of Canaan and destroyed most of its cities.

I was under the impression we didn't even know for sure who the Sea Peoples were. What language were these accounts written in? :allears:

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

sullat posted:

They were oral histories, eventually recorded in Greek. The modern names for them are ”the Iliad” and ”The Odyssey”.

I'm going to go ahead and say it's a hell of a stretch to say that the Iliad is definitely the same as a first-hand account of the Sea Peoples as recorded in ancient Egyptian history.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

The Entire Universe posted:

I wonder if it was some kind of coincidence that a handful of cultures from all over that corner of the Med decided to run sailing raids and it's just a fluke of a historical blind spot that the cultures doing the raiding aren't represented in the record for one reason or another (maybe they wrote everything on wood or something)

You would be amazed how much wasn't written down by ancient cultures, at least not that survived to us. We have zilch from ancient Carthage, for instance, a civilised and hegenomic trading power of its time, let alone random sea raiders. Hell, we have very little from the pagan Viking era and that was centuries and centuries later. We have a tiny fraction available to us of what was ever written down in the ancient world, in an era in which far far fewer people knew how to write than today.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Koramei posted:

And they weren't "random sea raiders". They completely broke down Mycenaean Greece, the Hittites, and permanently crippled Egypt right after what was pretty much its zenith. The reason there aren't many records of them is because there was nobody around to make any. (:spooky:) I'm only half exaggerating. In any case they were important.

I'm not saying they weren't important; that wasn't very well phrased, I agree. I am saying we have no reason to think they were literate. You don't need to be literate to gently caress literate people over.

Edit: and if we're talking about Mycenae, to name one bronze age civilisation, yes, they did write down quite a lot, but it was like 'received by the temple: 100 oxen, 50 jars of olive oil'. Not, like, useful stuff/poems/first-hand accounts of military anything. Egypt and the Near East in general are somewhat different, of course.

feedmegin fucked around with this message at 22:20 on Jan 4, 2014

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Mustang posted:

But aren't the events they depict around the same time period? The wikipedia page on the Sea People's suggests some Greek groups may have been one of the Sea Peoples.

I mean obviously Homer wasn't one of the Sea Peoples.

May have been. We don't know poo poo. That the Iliad is based on the reality of Bronze Age Greece is only a supposition based on the names of the Greek groups mentioned within it. We don't even know what century Homer wrote in for sure or even if he even actually existed, though most people seem to believe he post-dated the actual bronze age and was writing about what were only legends/ancient history in his own era. We are in no position to impute even faintly, vaguely, something in the region of 'the Iliad may have perhaps been referring to the same people as those the ancient Egyptians called the Sea Peoples'. We just don't have the evidence to be sure. Welcome to the ancient world.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Libluini posted:

To be fair, it could have been worse. Imagine Imperial Germany trying to occupy a country like the USA, were everyone has a gun. Those poor, German officers would get nightmares from all those Franctireurs hiding in every canyon!

Everyone had a gun back then in Europe too. Gun control didn't become much of a thing til like the 30s at the earliest.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Nenonen posted:

That sounds suspect. Everyone never had a gun on the whole continent, let alone one suitable for military operations. Eg. Finnish independence activists had pretty much no useful rifles at the time of Russo-Japanese war despite the country being a hunter's heaven. Japan wanted to support insurgence within the Russian empire so they acquired a boatload of rifles and ammo to be delivered to the insurgents, but the plan failed and the weapons ended up in Russian hands.

I meant it more like the guy I was responding to; its not like literally all Americans have guns now, but they're easy for most people to obtain and way more common than in modern Europe. Id say that was also true of 1914/1870 France.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Raskolnikov38 posted:

I thought the main reason for the existence of attack helicopters was that dumb Key West agreement and the later one from the 60s that the US army and Air Force signed.

Uh except lots of countries that aren't the US have them? The Key West agreement didn't have much to do with the development of the Hind.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

I Demand Food posted:

There was, but what the US supplied the other Allies via Lend-Lease typically far outweighed the monetary value of what they got back in return. It really was about supporting the war effort against Germany and Japan more than anything.

The British supplied the US with ambulances, Canada supplied launches and de Havilland Mosquitos for ASW and photo-reconnaissance purposes, Australia and New Zealand supplied US forces in the Pacific with food and built some airports in the South Pacific for American use. I think Canada also picked up part of the tab for some joint construction projects that the US ended up using exclusively after the war and Brazil allowed the US to deploy a radio monitoring unit and conducted some spy sweeps on behalf of the US.

As far as I know, the US got pretty much nothing back in return from the USSR, though.

The US also got Spitfires - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Supermarine_Spitfire_operators#.C2.A0United_States

Not to mention everything the UK knew about both radar and nuclear weapons (i.e. the http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tube_Alloys project), in both of which the UK was way ahead of the US at the time.

feedmegin fucked around with this message at 21:57 on Feb 6, 2014

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

ArchangeI posted:

Which makes me wonder why the British went with a Skijump design for the QEs. The whole thing ties them to the success of the F-35B to an unreasonable degree. If they had gone CATOBAR they would have had the option of running Rafales (and France would probably throw in a years supply of tea for every sailor on the ship, too) or F-18s. If they really want a stealth-ish fighter to fly off their carrier, they could still get the F-35C.

They're actually built with the space for CATOBARs (with the F-35C in mind not the Rafael, though), and a few years ago the plan was to actually install them. Then the catapults sounded like they'd be more expensive than planned, so in a fit of austerity the government downgraded back to F-35Bs and ski ramps again (never mind how much more expensive/limiting the air wing has to be because of that). I wonder how feasible it would be to refit down the line and put CATOBARs back in if STOVL turns out to suck (it'll probably suck).

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

khwarezm posted:

Meanwhile the Communists bided their time regaining strength after the defeats and Long march from the 30s, with a few propaganda attacks on the Japanese to remind people they still existed but nothing major.

Well, given that the Communists in most other areas of Axis-occupied territory in World War 2 were at the forefront of the resistance, and had a lot of goodwill afterwards in many places because of it...

Granted, the Japanese weren't explicitly dedicated and formed for the purpose of crushing Communism in quite the same way the Nazis were.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

steinrokkan posted:

The Japanese organized massive pacification campaigns that were neither in style nor in scale different from what the Germans were doing in the USSR to the rural population.

Yep, sure, they were absolute shitheads, but (I would presume) this was directed equally at Chiang Kai-Shek's guys as the communists. No 'shoot the commissars' order or anything and no specific ideological singling out of Communists over everyone else.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Bacarruda posted:

Japan and the US were broadly equal in 1941. Japan lead in some areas (torpedoes, aircraft) and lagged in others (small arms, artillery, radar). But by 1945, the US was far and away superior (radar, VT fuses, etc.).

To be fair, in the case of radar tech in particular and some other areas (like the atom bomb!), the US got a lot of free help/classified technology from the UK that Japan didn't get from Germany.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

The Merry Marauder posted:

Southampton is.

Being the naval base from which the RN will, ah, sail.

Southampton is a civilian port, Portsmouth is the RN one.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Animal posted:

So I finished reading The Baroque Cycle by Neal Stephenson, which puts me in a new class of geek. Anyways I want one of you milhis nerds to give me a concise summary on how Cromwell managed to build up an army that whooped rear end, and why this protestant culture was so much better at waging war than their royalist opposition.

Most of the royalists were also Protestants (and the ones who weren't kept quiet about it); both sides were English, you know, it's not like they had a separate 'culture' in any real sense and it's also not like culture has much effect on martial proficiency (the Catholics were certainly making hay in the 30 Years War around the same time, after all).

In fact both sides in the English Civil War were incompetent as gently caress by Continental standards, especially early on, which is not unusual in a civil war. As for why the New Model whooped rear end, outnumbering the royalists 2:1 by this stage of the war helped quite a bit, oddly enough.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Nenonen posted:

Caesar's first invasion of Britain was opposed, and successful. Surely not the scale of Overlord, but it could be done.

That's stretching the definition of 'invasion of Britain', surely. I mean, if you're counting that then you might as well count the St Nazaire raid too.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Sylphid posted:

I imagine English armies landed in hostile French territory all the time during the Hundred Years' War.

For most (all?) of that period, a fairly large chunk of northern France was English (well, Anglo-Norman, and let's not forget the 'Norman' part of that term refers to an area of modern-day France). So not really, no. Marched into it, sure.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

HEY GAL posted:

Check out the Putney Documents for more on that. And at least one of the Putney guys actually did have egalitarian beliefs.

The Putney Debates and the Levellers are a pretty interesting bunch. The egalitarianism comes at least as much from the Bible as from modern political ideas of egality, though, and has a long historical precedent - 'When Adam delved, and Eve span, who was then the gentleman?'; although the Agitators (being representatives elected by the ordinary soldiers of each regiment on those soldiers' own initiative) do sound intriguingly similar to the soldiers' Soviets of the Russian Revolution.

(This is also the only period in English history when England was a Republic; these guys had an underrated influence on the American revolutionaries in the next century when they were coming up with their own ideology).

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Arquinsiel posted:

You'd be amazed how much it's used. I'd wager every program you're using right now (assuming an x86/x64 CISC Intel-style chip) is full of them.

Uhhh. If you mean a branch at the machine code level, yes, every program you use does and it doesn't depend on the chip type. Bit hard to have useful programs without them.

In source code, as opposed to while/if/other structured programming stuff (that do of course compile down to a conditional or unconditional branch in machine code) - not so much. Especially given all the programming languages out there that don't even have a goto.

feedmegin fucked around with this message at 20:12 on Aug 15, 2014

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Arquinsiel posted:

I've played it. It holds up remarkably well when you substitute nerf guns for the cannon he used.

You can still get those cannon as retro toys, in the UK at least; I had one as a kid and I'm not a centenarian.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

EvanSchenck posted:

I don't know offhand if Prussia held any of Mexico's foreign debt, but there was a German mercantile presence in Mexico City that is sometimes referred to as a "colony."

That doesn't necessarily have any imperial connotations though, if that's what you're thinking; it's in the same sense as say 'artists' colony' (i.e. a bunch of dudes with something in common living in the same place).

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Nckdictator posted:

So, I have a few questions related to each other.

1. When have police forces been used in combat roles in military operations? The only example I can think of off the top of my head is Berlin 1945

Spanish Civil War, assuming you count gendarmes as police.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardia_de_Asalto

The war would have been over in a few weeks if it wasn't for them. Actually, I imagine most civil wars count given they start out as rebellions by citizens of a country against its government, which is sort of what the (riot) police are there to deal with.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Bacarruda posted:

An open-ocean showdown between the IJN and the US Navy would have been a pretty even fight.

Yes, the Japanese would have had an edge in carrier numbers. In 1941 they had 6 heavy carriers and 6 light carriers available. The United States had only three fleet carriers in the Pacific (USS Enterprise, USS Lexington, and USS Saratoga), but the Atlantic Fleet carriers (USS Yorktown, USS Ranger, and USS Wasp) could have been rushed to the Pacific. The newly-commissioned USS Wasp could have been rushed into action as well.

[...]

The same disadvantages all applied to US Navy aviators, who had the added disadvantage of aerial torpedoes that didn't work.

Bottom line, an IJN-USN head-to-head wouldn't necessarily have been a massacre.

Not necessarily, but being 50% outnumbered by Japanese carriers, outnumbered in literally everything else as well, and, as you mention, having non-functional torpedoes without knowing it...I don't see reasons to anticipate a happy fun time for the US fleet in that situation. It's not suicide but the odds are with the Japanese.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

PittTheElder posted:

By the by, is that post particularly accurate? It sounds on the level, I'd just like to have a second opinion that isn't 'some Usenet post', not that 'some SA post' is necessarily all that better.

Sealion being impossible is a well-known alternate history community thing and has been for decades, so at least in essence it is, or at least no-one in 20 years has found a convincing way to prove otherwise. Definitely the Germans in 1940 had nothing like the logistics, naval strength, aerial dominance, manpower of the Allies by 1944 in Overlord and that was still touch and go in places.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Cyrano4747 posted:


Lusitania - I don't know what you mean by "terrible practice" but she went down from one torp

To be fair, this one is an ocean liner not a warship.

One advantage British carriers did have in the East was that they had armoured decks, which is quite handy for resilience against bombs and kamikazes (with the tradeoff that there's less space for planes, of course).

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Pornographic Memory posted:

I'm pretty sure Churchill just loved random naval/amphibious sideshow operations for their own sake. Churchill probably never saw a stretch of coastline he didn't want to land some soldiers on.

To be fair, I see nothing in that wiki entry indicating he wanted to land any troops. Just a naval operation, which isn't necessarily that unreasonable; it's not like the Germans or the at-the-time-hostile Soviets had huge naval forces in the Baltic.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Cyrano4747 posted:

It's a little hard to argue that anyone who was born in 1900 saw a better version of the world than someone who was born in 1850 as well.

edit: well, unless you're an American.

And, of course, if you happened to be black and American you get to be a human being in 1900 too! :whip:

Edit: actually, life was better in most of the industrialised world if you were born working class, too. The welfare state was a developing thing by 1918, child labour laws existed, etc, etc.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

vuk83 posted:

And you can bet your dollar's that the Chinese and ussr are researching ways to jam the gently caress out of drones.

I'd be worried about spying/espionage. Imagine a scenario where your air force is all heavily armed drones and someone figures out how to p0wn them and control them themselves. You could get some literal Galactica poo poo going on.

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

bewbies posted:

I'd say that's more of a triumph of industrial power and resource mobilization than technical ingenuity. Kind of a microcosm of the war, that.

Uh. It needed industry and resources, sure, but the atom bomb didnt also require serious technical ingenuity? Really?

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Trin Tragula posted:

100 Years Ago

There are some events in war that just beggar belief. You read about them, and you simply can't understand how the actions being described led to the situation that came after them. Every account seems to contain a row of giant question marks somewhere in the middle, where the gnomes successfully turned stolen underpants into profit, and they're not telling anyone how they did it.

The critical intervention of the 2nd Worcesters at Gheluvelt is surely in this category. A tiny band of grubby, hairy-arsed Brummies win the most improbable of victories, when it seems that all the Germans have to do to win the battle and break the British line beyond hope of repair is to just keep walking up the Menin Road.

Again, it's less "we won!" and more "we didn't lose!", but the consequences of losing this one would have been greater than most. It's also Saturday, by the way, and that means our weekly appointment with Mrs Eric Pritchard, custodian of the Telegraph's "A Page for Women". She's keeping the home front up with the latest developments in hat-fashions and jam.

Tiny point but,
Apparently General Lomax didn't actually die til 1915?

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Cyrano4747 posted:

They're toasted! :haw:

That can't be right, Don Draper invented that slogan in 1960 :ohdear:

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

tonberrytoby posted:

There is a higher quality coffee wartime substitute (made from figs) that was advertised a lot by bio-stores a few years ago. It was supposed to be very healty and tasty if mixed with real coffee. I never got around to buying some.

To be fair, I doubt fig trees grow in Germany...

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Mustang posted:

Always makes me wonder what the ancient Romans would think of their Italian descendants, at least the Spaniards had a respectable empire going on for a while only to have it kicked in the teeth in the end by another nation speaking a barbaric Germanic language

Also makes me wonder what they would think of the US, the first Western state to really rival Rome in power and influence. Uppity barbarians or amusement at all the Classical Roman influence on the American Republic?

Excuse me the British Empire would like a word. :colbert:

feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

Tomn posted:

Hey, Hegel, do you know anything about espionage during your era? Like how spies were recruited, how they were used, and if in fact there was anything like a formal position of spymaster and whatnot? Anything on the subject would be interesting!

Not to speak for Hegel, but spymasters certainly existed, eg this chap -

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Thurloe

Half the point of having embassies and diplomats was to facilitate intelligence/spying, too, same as it is now.

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feedmegin
Jul 30, 2008

P-Mack posted:

I just picked up Team Yankee at a used book sale, so all of this NATO/ Soviet chat couldn't be better timed.

Other interesting books in a similar vein:

First Clash (canucks)
Red Army (soviet perspective)
Chieftains (ar boys :britain: - in typically British fashion, it doesn't end well)

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