Obdicut posted:

Cavalry question: I've heard it asserted that the Hakkapeliitta, Finnish light cavalry, didn't actually exist and weren't actually used by Gustavus Adolphus. Is there any truth to either their existence or their definite disproof?

Ferrosol posted:

This was a pretty common thing for the time period. The sailors were just there to steer the ship and "real soldiers" were used to do all the fighting at sea. it's why you often see throughout the early part of this period land holding nobles who'd never been to sea being appointed to run major naval engagements like Lepanto and the Armada. It's only really with the improvements that saw cannon become more deadly towards the mid to late 17th century that the (non-english) European powers move away from this sort of system.

a travelling HEGEL posted:

He also deployed musketeers in concert with his cavalry, since the Swedish cavalry didn't have any firearms. Small companies of musketeers alternated with squadrons of horse. Meanwhile, the cavalry forgoes the use of the caracole in favor of saber charges.

Unluckyimmortal posted:

Is the degree of tumblehome represented on that Dutch frigate accurate for the time, or is it just kinda amateurish perspective?

Wikipedia posted:

Tumblehome was common on wooden warships for centuries. In the era of oared combat ships it was quite common, placing the oar ports as far abeam as possible. This also made it more difficult to board by force, as the ships would come to contact at their widest points, with the decks some distance apart. The narrowing of the hull above this point made the boat more stable by lowering the weight above the waterline, which is one of the reasons it remained common during the age of cannon-armed ships. In addition, the sloping sides of a tumblehome ship increased the effective thickness of the hull versus flat horizontal trajectory gunfire (a straight line through faced more material to penetrate) and increased the likelihood of a shell striking the hull being deflected—much the same reasons that later tank armor was sloped.

Pornographic Memory posted:

Since this post got me wondering, what would retirement look like for an old soldier in this era and earlier? Would he even be able to retire? If so, how would he support himself?

Taerkar posted:

Perhaps I worded it wrong. I was asking more about how the soldiers were trained. Did they do a more one-on-one approach or were there a series of drills and motions that the troops would go through.

Part of modern combat training is to drill basic actions into the soldiers so that they don't have to think about performing various actions and thus remain effective during more stressful moments.

Slavvy posted:

Sparta had an advantage here because they had a dedicated warrior class who didn't have to work because their economy functioned on their helots.

a travelling HEGEL posted:

OK, despite what I told you earlier, I am reading an Osprey book on G.A.'s cavalry and there it says that they did have pistols, they were just called harquebusiers by the English because that was the English term for anyone who wasn't a curiassier. So I was probably wrong there, sorry. (Unless this is one of the Osprey books that suck--I know the one on Imperial 30YW infantry is)

The point, though, is the same: they have no money and, supplies-wise, are not very good.

Edit: This may be one of the Osprey books that suck; here they are repeating the old Hakkapeliitta legend. So maybe I was right to begin with.

Edit 2: Every day I realise how little I know and how much I still have to learn.

Qvark posted:

Coincidentally, if you're in Stockholm you should check out the Swedish Army museum, I really liked their permanent exhibit of the 30 years war. It's not super informative but they really get the feeling of the despair and slaughter right. Also when I visited you could try out a massive amount of uniforms which they also make available for the Stockholm Pride parade

a travelling HEGEL posted:

I have seen a photograph of Swedish cav pistols, so at least one Swedish officer carried a pair of pistols--but it had a caption that the set would have cost something like twice that of a full suit of armor for a cuirassier, which is already impossibly expensive.

I don't know if there is a modern analogue to the cost of these things--imagine running around the battlefield and your body armor is made by Miu Miu (is Miu Miu still in right now? Whatever's in), your guns by Alexander McQueen. I mean, it'd rule, but my point is it's a different world.

a travelling HEGEL posted:

And I imagine the higher officers have something quite a bit snazzier, otherwise why bother going to war at all?

Edit: I notice, for instance, that in the link you gave there are a number of more expensive examples as well.

SeanBeansShako posted:

I imagine they'd have ordered some extremely expensive well custom made dueling pistols with a lot of silver filigree and only the finest darkened old oak.

With their names and date inscribed too of course.

bewbies posted:

I know it changed quite a bit between revisions but I never really got much of the RAH RAH WAR vibe from the version of Storm of Steel that I read. To me it just seemed like a guy (who, granted, was particularly hard) telling his war experience.

Guildencrantz posted:

A question mostly for HEGEL:

In the early modern period, what would happen with veterans of big, drawn-out conflicts like the 30YW once peace had come? With the increase in soldier population, I imagine there must have been a lot of people had fought for years and years, knew no other craft than killing and were too old to really learn a new one. A whole generation grew up surrounded by that war, and "grizzled badass and also a broken human being incapable of relating to the world except through violence" can't make for a great peacetime resume. Do we have any records on the fate of veterans, did they usually settle down on a farm somewhere, turn to banditry, starve, or what?

Kemper Boyd posted:

The level of violence soldiers saw during the Early Modern Era wasn't really all that. Remember that there were relatively few battles over the course of the 30YW and the biggest killer was disease.

Swedish criminal data from the 17th century shows a rise in violent crime but at the same time, when the wars were on, the level of violence was lower than in the 16th century. It kind of looks to me (I've mostly read about Sweden and Finland) that those who survived wars in that era and got back pretty much went back to their day jobs. Which more or less was always farming.

veekie posted:

Wasn't the potbelly design used for practical reasons? It helps with defending against gut attacks, by encouraging any blade or point to deflect away from vitals.

a travelling HEGEL posted:

Yeah, every other word out of Wallhausen's mouth when he's talking about pikes is some variant on "precise." "Fine," "delicate," "graceful," "orderly." It's not a shoving match.

Edit: And then he says you shouldn't pay pikes double because they work much less hard than musketeers.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

So Franco just loaned out his tanks to anyone that showed up in Madrid with a movie camera then?

a travelling HEGEL posted:

Zweihänders were used in the early 1500s

a travelling HEGEL posted:

Edit: They're really beautiful; most of the ones I've seen in person are longer than I am tall, and their lines are so graceful.

Waroduce posted:

Chuck Yeager

SeanBeansShako posted:

Some pretty strong words now, but the pictures from the Ancient era stuff are actually quite nice and stuff. Not sure if 100% accurate but very easy on the eye.

Osprey is really just pretty 'filler' with a few things that are wrong or have long since changed (It has been around since the seventies now) but it does the job well. It makes me want to dig really deep into a proper detailed book about the subject matter. And if I ever really geek out and get into war gaming they are great guides for painting figurines.

Met a pretty awesome dude on this training course for factory work, turns out a couple times of year he does English Civil War reenactment. History is a awesome ice breaker.

quote:

About this book
Always outnumbered by their Soviet counterparts, the small band of Finnish fighter pilots who defended their Scandinavian homeland from the 'communist hordes' in three separate wars between 1939 and 1945 amassed scores only bettered by the Luftwaffe's Jagdflieger.

Koramei posted:

Say what? The term "Scandinavia" is what loving everybody calls those countries. Nordic is only an occasional thing and "the North" is what people say if they're taking the piss. Geopolitics and regionalism and whatever are about as up for debate as topics possibly get; maybe the term had an incredibly literal definition when it was first introduced, but that is not at all the case today. Acting like you know the definitive answer (or that there is a definitive answer) is incredibly stupid.

Koramei posted:

Oh yeah clearly, my mistake.


There are no unambiguous terms in geopolitics! It's all well and interesting to hear a local perspective but that doesn't mean it's correct, so marching in wanting to shut everybody up with your truth is still stupid!


Incidentally I'm guessin' you're both Finns; is there a particular reason Finns don't want to be seen as part of Scandinavia?

also I'm not mad!!

Ensign Expendable posted:

I read about a young lieutenant and her brilliant idea to shoot some Germans with indirect MG fire today. Sadly, the article leaves out how effective this measure was. Is this a thing that someone else has ever tried?

Raskolnikov38 posted:

What's up with the Catalan enclave on Sardinia?

Azipod posted:

At least when the robo-infantry go over the top at space verdun all we'll lose is steel and circuitry.

Slavvy posted:

So, what was the purpose of basically razing a city to the ground? Like, what would their mentality have been? It seems like an unsustainable lifestyle, to me it would make more sense to keep raiding so you never run out of food/riches/whatever instead of utterly destroying the source of your livelihood.

3 posted:

Ensign Expendable posted:

That's when fancy tech comes into play. Active defenses like Drozd/Arena/Trophy against rockets, Shtora against laser designators, reactive armour, etc.

a travelling HEGEL posted:

I last read that book as a literal child so I don't remember what the issue here is.

Wikipedia posted:

A standard Soviet 1941 rifle division of 14,483 men relied on horse logistics and had a supply train of 3,039 horses, half of the complement of the 1941 German infantry division. Various reorganization made Soviet units smaller and leaner; the last divisional standard (December 1944), beefed up against the 1943 minimum, provided for only 1,196 horses for a regular and 1,155 horses for a Guards division. By this time few divisions ever had more than half of their standard human complement, and their logistic capacities were downgraded accordingly.

Ensign Expendable posted:

Also, don't forget donkey. While meek in its default configuration, it could be upgraded with a radio and anti-tank capabilities.

Nenonen posted:

How rude of the marshalls, they should have borrowed a couple of their Order of Lenin ribbons so the rookie wouldn't be embarrassed.

If I were a Red Army officer, I would be grabbing Iron Crosses from dead or surrendered enemies as trophies and wearing them with pride.