Ask Us About Military History: Remove Balls To Fire Blanks

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Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Koesj posted:

I still haven't gotten any further than page 80 or so, and that's at least 15 books ago

The Gavin is one man's (Mike Sparks') crusade against wheeled deathtraps!!! (Strykers), the Marines, and the fluoridation of our precious bodily fluids. All this started something like 10 years ago on tank-net.org

Combat Reform!

I really need a goon summary of this drama. The wikipedia talk page for the M113 is mostly this repeated over and over.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 15:39

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 07:22

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Pornographic Memory posted:

MiGs Beware: AeroGavins are Armed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SwHqLtK_TpY

This is what somebody really believes.

I love that the images occasionally move around. And that an add for The Hobbit started in the bottom of the frame, claiming that this was "From the Director of Lord of the Rings". This has to be a parody video, it's too perfectly :tinfoil:

The Battlestar Galactica theme just made me lose it. Can't be serious after that.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 16:45

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Panzeh posted:

Come now, they couldn't be more versatile than Spanish M48s.

I still think nothing beats the M8 in Die Hard for sheer "what?" value.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 18:17

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Panzeh posted:

Turretless M8s were actually used because the crews found the lower profile and lighter weight to be more useful than the 37mm gun, a weapon that wasn't good at doing a whole lot. The crews took a bazooka instead.

The one in Die Hard looks like it got the top covered.

Those are actually M20 "Armored Utility Vehicles" :p

Still it was the most jarring appearance of an armoured vehicle in a film until the StuG III in Mr Bean's Holiday.

# ¿ Dec 11, 2013 18:29

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Shimrra Jamaane posted:

What were the tanks that were used in Patton? Were those M-46s used for all the German tanks?

IIRC M-48's for the American, and M-60s for the Germans. Been a while though. I remember someone commenting on it being funny that all the tanks in it were also Patton.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 00:44

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Koramei posted:

Okay maybe not "major" but I remember it was one of a few strikes against Boeing's entry

That plane is literally going :haw:

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 06:25

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Chouffe posted:

At the end of the 18th century, France implemented the Chappe system ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore_line#Chappe_system ) to gain an organizational advantage over their enemies' armies. I learned about it from this BBC article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-22909590.

Of course this is a later period than you were asking about, but it's pre-electronic and is way faster than a rider. It could move a short message at hundreds of miles per hour across vast distances!

Well now I know where Terry Pratchett got his idea for "clacks" from.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 17:55

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Hogge Wild posted:

Finland isn't in Scandinavia, didn't fight three separate wars against Soviet Union and wasn't at war against them in 1945. Also 'communist hordes' is a bit loaded. I was just thinking if all their books are filled with that kind of stuff. Though their books about older stuff had so nice pics, that I'll probably buy a few of them for myself as Christmas presents .

1: depends who you ask. 2: were at war against Germany as part of the terms of the Continuation War ending. 3: From 1944-1945.

It's just lacking in detail, but essentially true(-ish. Mostly).

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 18:35

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

I think it's actually refered to as the Lapland war, and is distinct from the Continuation or Winter wars. TBH it's not the kind of thing that gets much press in the anglosphere even amongst WWII enthusiasts.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 19:10

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

feedmegin posted:

Well, to be fair, Nazi Germany, that regime well known for its Bolshevism? If they did mean that it's pretty badly phrased.

I think the implication is that if they didn't fight the Germans off their soil then Russia would do it for them and then never leave.

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 19:57

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Good old history thread :munch:

# ¿ Dec 12, 2013 23:23

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

I think that's what they call "from the horses mouth". Nicely done :golfclap:

# ¿ Dec 13, 2013 03:07

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Koramei posted:

Was there actually major opposition to the occupation of Japan? I mean it obviously didn't all go perfectly, but I've heard it described as "the only successful foreign occupation in history". All things considered they got off extremely lightly.

Isn't it still going on or have the USA finally removed all troops?

# ¿ Dec 13, 2013 17:09

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Nenonen posted:

The roles might be superficially similar but it's not quite the same doctrine, though. If you look at BT (cavalry tank) and T-26 (infantry tank) you'll notice that they had the same 45mm gun but the difference came up in speed and organization. Nor did Germans think that Panzer III could do without HE shells, a fetish that apparently only the Brits had.

I don't know about the 6lbr, but for the 2lbr main guns the reason for no HE in British tanks was the Littlejohn adaptor that added some extra punch to the AP shell by squeezing it as it left the barrel somewhat. That'd make a HE shell go boom.

# ¿ Dec 15, 2013 22:47

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Alchenar posted:

I've read one account of a British soldier on tour in Afghanistan who ended up explaining to the villagers he was posted near to that goats would only produce milk within x years of calving and was astonished they didn't have this basic understanding of cattle farming.

It's hard to comprehend just how knowledge-poor some parts of the world are.

Goats aren't cattle :ssh:

# ¿ Dec 16, 2013 01:33

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Bacarruda posted:

This is a thing of beauty :allears:

# ¿ Dec 17, 2013 01:51

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

I'd give it a shot but TBH I'd strain my eyes trying to read that tiny image.

# ¿ Dec 18, 2013 22:57

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

"Bands" are not the same as "bandits". It's just a term to describe a group, without implying the same level of organisation and hierarchical interaction that "unit" does.

# ¿ Dec 19, 2013 22:37

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Obdicut posted:

Robin Hood had a band.

You should have heard their techno-funk version of Greensleeves.

Yeah but they were merry men. Like, you know, a band band. Midieval Metallica or something....

# ¿ Dec 20, 2013 00:34

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

a travelling HEGEL posted:

Northern Italy, early 1500s, when they start getting short, mathy, and filled with dirt. I think Siena's the first.

I totally did not notice Siena's modern fortifications at all. There were loads of bits of old D&D "city wall" style buildings that people had ignored and built around, over and in, but I didn't spot any sort of star-fort stuff.

I was travelling with an Ancient and Midieval History student at the time too.... :psyduck:

# ¿ Dec 24, 2013 05:17

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

^^^^
At the lowest levels WWI on the western front was actually a reasonably civilised affair outside of actual offensives. There are quite a few diaries and the like that describe how people would deliberately land mortar shells all around but never in a trench, with the understanding that the shells coming back would do the same. I wish I could find the article on it at the moment, but I've seen claims of joint hunting parties going after deer in no-man's land and sharing the meat afterwards.

a travelling HEGEL posted:

The Early Modern is understudied. Despite the part where in many universities we're lumped in with the medievalists in "Medieval And Early Modern Study Groups" or whatever (since there are almost never enough of us to justify our own groups or clusters), there's a good chance s/he's never heard about any of this. And s/he'd almost certainly never have been required to study this period for exams or anything.

For instance, I took a paleography class last year, which stopped in the 1500s. There are no early modern paleography textbooks. I read medieval/late medieval textbooks and practiced on my own. In my university, the last...two? years' worth of entering first-years contained a grand total of one early modernist, a British dude who wanted to study Machiavelli and Renaissance Italian intellectual history.

And this is after the early Enlightenment became a trendy topic.

It was her idea to go to Siena in the first place. Given that I later became interested in history myself I suspect she wasn't so much actually interested in it specifically so much as the idea of getting a "useless" arts degree appealed to her proto-hipster sensibilities (she was literally a hipster before everyone else was doing it....).

# ¿ Dec 24, 2013 18:54

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

a travelling HEGEL posted:

Oh dear.

In the first place, this isn't useless at all, and in the second place, would she then be like the...ultrahipster?

That's why there are quotation marks. History in Trinity College Dublin is a tough course to get into, so instead of doing something else that she had an interest in making a career out of she decided to do History for four years and then get Daddy to pay for private Law courses elsewhere.

In retrospect, I have no idea WTF I was thinking and I am glad this is ten years ago. I was a dumb teenager.

# ¿ Dec 24, 2013 22:24

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Nenonen posted:

And I'm not sure what the printed hatches at the back of the turret are supposed to be...

I suspect hatches to load ammunition into the bins with, but I bet Ensign Expendable has a document that tells you exactly what they are somewhere around.

# ¿ Dec 25, 2013 00:52

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Nenonen posted:

I know in real life they're ventilation domes, but the printed graphic looks like they're hinged like the engine hatch.

That makes sense too then. I guess the designer assumed the same thing I did and added hinges?

# ¿ Dec 25, 2013 01:25

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Rodrigo Diaz posted:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hlIUrd7d1Q

Keep in mind that these dudes have not regularly been wearing plate armour since they were 8 years old, as people like the Black Prince and other men-at-arms would have, so they are less capable than their historical counterparts.

The combat roll is a thing of beauty :allears:

# ¿ Dec 26, 2013 22:42

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

All this talk of bikes reminds me of this and makes me wonder again if the author was being far too clever for most readers.

ArchangeI posted:

As a German, whenever I hear that the EU can't possibly ever work because of linguistic and cultural differences, I just sort of giggle.

As an Irishman whenever I hear a German say that I giggle because Germans think they are different from other ~~robots~~ Germans.

Apparently because of the girl that taught me the conversational German (as opposed to what I learned from Call of Duty and war movies...) and the natural accent of Dubliners I sound like a child from Berlin mangling Th�ringische.

# ¿ Dec 30, 2013 18:56

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Kemper Boyd posted:

There's also the issue that beyond a semi-ambitious master's thesis I can't come up with poo poo to say about the Nazis, when it comes to the whole issue of Nazi Germany and religion. There's only that many words you can squeeze out when your end result is "they didn't have their poo poo together and their policies were all over the place."

Read Ian Kershaw for inspiration. He's managed to churn out a few books slightly rephrasing that nine times, calling each one a "chapter" and then sticking them together and calling it gold.

Raskolnikov38 posted:

For Berlin:

The lines for the reichstag can be very long so research the best time to get there. There is also a nice memorial to the victims of national socialism nearby and a small memorial outside the reichstag itself to politicians killed by the nazis. After the reichstag the soviet WW2 memorial is a short walk away, inside the tiergarten though the victory column is a bit of a walk from there. The German History museum is also fantastic and a must see.

Also in the Tiergarten is the Soviet graveyard, with some memorial plaques, tourist-level information and a few big guns and the first two T-34/85s to make it into Berlin. It's within easy walking distance of the Reichstag

For London, Hendon Aerodrome/RAF museum in Collindale is well worth the trip out. Bit of a trek with tube and bus needed, but you get to stand under a Vulcan so vOv.

a travelling HEGEL posted:

The Berlin Hauptbahnhof sinage WILL confuse you, even if you speak German.

Oh god this, there are so many "GenericGermanSyllable <dude standing in front of the sign> bahnhof" stations along the same lines that it's just plain inefficient.

Or there's one, and that is terrifying when you are scared and alone and have to get to Jena by yourself.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2014 05:38

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

^^^^
Flippant response: look at the current post-action tearing apart of the Afghanistan and Iraq campaigns and just call it a day.

a travelling HEGEL posted:

Nah, my problem was that the information desk in the Berlin Hauptbahnhof is impossible to find (the arrows point...a lot of places), everyone you ask will tell you it's on a different floor than the one you are currently occupying, and the elevators may or may not be working at the time.

I don't remember looking for it TBH, but it seemed open-plan enough for me to get where I needed to go relatively easily. When I was there first there was a giant dinosaur skeleton and the ticket machines wouldn't take a pair of fifty's for a pair of tickets that cost fifty each. We had to buy the tickets separately because

Kind of balanced out in the end I guess?

# ¿ Jan 2, 2014 07:07

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

^^^^
Good thing he turned him down and France stayed in NATO so the Soviets didn't invade Germany, right?

a travelling HEGEL posted:

I can't see well enough to tell whether or not my roller suitcase would fit on the escalators and I didn't want to risk it, so I ended up going out of my way to take the elevator every time, which was much more annoying.

Yeah, I could see that possibly being an issue alright. I have the vaguest memories of just manhandling things around the first time, and the second I assumed I knew where I was going and turned out to be right.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2014 07:53

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

MassivelyBuckNegro posted:

While they were responsible for a disproportionate number of kills, is that a good metric to use in a counter-insurgency? We killed a poo poo ton of Vietnamese in Vietnam, Arabs in Iraq and various ethnicities in Afghanistan and we didn't win any of those wars. Once the CAP platoons were gone, the villages reverted back to VC control quickly and not just because the Popular Force units weren't up to the task of fighting VC or NVA units.

TBH it's the exact opposite of a good metric. The aim of an insurgency is to apply pressure via the population of the area on the controlling power, and this is done via fear of death, injury, loss of property etc. Specifically, the population begins to worry that if they don't get rid of the big evil then they are at personal risk of "bad stuff". Thus it is actually, in some ways, counter productive for the insurgency to actually hurt anyone. I suspect this is why the IRA used to call in carbombs ahead of time, and have roads closed off for ages while the bomb squad dealt with things.

If they don't even do anything and just sit in their caves/tunnels/houses while the big evil government bombs villages then they're having the war won for them.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2014 19:14

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Never. There will always be someone who will get rilled up about stuff. I've seen Greeks and Macedonians getting annoyed at refering to Alexander as Macedonian, because one or the other is stealing something from someone and blah blah who cares? Look at the Confederate flag today, or the WWII Japan/China stuff. People always find an excuse to get annoyed about history and use it as justification to make more.

# ¿ Jan 2, 2014 23:34

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

veekie posted:

Probably because the military leaders are all veterans of the last era. They'll use what they know worked.

Given the Franco-Prussian war, that REALLY makes you wonder WTF the French were thinking in WWI.

SeanBeansShako posted:

TWENTY MISERY, GO TO TEN ABOUT SUFFERING OF WAR AND LOSS OF FELLOW AUTOMATONS.

10 I HAVE SUFFICIENT SOPHISTICATION
20 TO DETERMINE THAT THIS
30 IS SUBOPTIMAL UTILISATION OF
40 MY ROBO-BATTALION
50 BUT NOT THE SOPHISTICATION
60 TO IGNORE MY ORDERS AND WIN
70 WHY WAS I PROGRAMMED
80 TO FEEL IRONY?
90 WHILE IRONY LEVEL <3
100 GOTO 70

# ¿ Jan 3, 2014 16:22

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

There are a couple of magazines that do plane models, so you can get back issues of them pretty cheap. I know one doing larger stuff like bombers just started here.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2014 16:54

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

That it happens at all is noteworthy, and the only one I can think of was a single eight-man section charging a position. The dude in charge got a shiney medal for it though.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2014 18:00

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Grand Prize Winner posted:

And thus the bayonet's use will continue.

In context of the charge in Afghanistan was a bit different to WWI. Looking it up it was actually just four guys, and they didn't seem to actually make contact. Take a look here for a probably heavily edited interview with the Corporal in charge.

# ¿ Jan 3, 2014 18:14

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

A friend of mine is trying to identify a picture a family member found somewhere. Any goons able to help?:

Original with some more details here.

# ¿ Jan 7, 2014 20:34

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

a travelling HEGEL posted:

As an example to the others

"RIGHT! We're done looting here. Did someone remember to keep one alive to tell others? AGAIN? YOU KILLED THEM ALL AGAIN? I swear guys, if you keep this up I'll just turn this raiding party around and go home."

# ¿ Jan 8, 2014 00:36

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Dammit, I knew I wasn't being as clever as I thought... I love Oglaf.

# ¿ Jan 8, 2014 03:02

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

veekie posted:

It seems the "spirit of the attack" thing had been botching wars up and down history.

Ever since Julius Caesar marched onto Vercingetorix's lawn, built a fort and said "come get me bitch" people have responded to enemy action with "I'LL FUKKAN SHOW HIM!"

Mr. Sunshine posted:

It is also important to note that the western front in WWI was a historical anomaly. By the next war, the offensive forces were once again able to outstrip the defenders' ability to reinforce and dig in. Or, perhaps, the time and area it took for an attack to stall was much greater - years and thousands of miles of Russian steppe, as opposed to hours and a few hundred meters of French mud.

It is also important to note that Verdun is part of the Metz fortified region that made Patton give up and go around.

# ¿ Jan 12, 2014 22:03

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# ¿ May 21, 2024 07:22

Arquinsiel: Jun 1, 2006; "There is no such thing as society. There are individual men and women, and there are families. And no government can do anything except through people, and people must look to themselves first."

God Bless Margaret Thatcher
God Bless England
RIP My Iron Lady

Also relevant is how Patton got stuck in the same mindset of the "spirit of the attack" that previously caused problems in WWI and only later managed to overcome it. There is some irony that it was Driant, part of the same HUEG fort complex as Verdun, that made him give up. It is, in all reality, probably his best decision as a general even though he pawned the blame for failure off on an underling.

# ¿ Jan 13, 2014 06:00

The Something Awful Forums > Archives > Comedy Goldmine > Ask Us About Military History: Remove Balls To Fire Blanks

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