Binary Logic posted:I found the metaphysical conceit of the narrative to be very bookish (hesitate to call it literary). Initially I thought the movie was based on a book because the manner of relating Joe's sexcapades to fishing, to music, to math, etc is exactly how many modern novels are set up. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Trout Fishing in America are the most obvious ones that come to mind. I mentioned this I think, but it's seriously straight out of de Sade. The exact conceit of an "experienced" woman telling her tale is used several times in his novels. The secret society of girls was sort of similar to ones that show up in his books too, but obviously the one here was toned down. Nymphomaniac is basically a combination of Justine and Juliette in a way (with more recognizably human or psychologically realistic elements, I guess). There's also the sort of ironic fact that the movie is set up in a "literary" way but in its theme is explicitly anti-book culture: the culture of disembodied knowledge that must relate every aspect of life to some intellectual phenomenon, make metaphors, etc. is pretty conclusively shown to be a weak sham when compared to embodied unintellectual uncultured life. In that sense I guess they are supposed to be "cringe-worthy"? quote:To make this a CineD post, can anyone recommend other similar themed mainstream movies, where sex is used as metaphor or to drive the plot? The ones I can think of are: Shame?
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Mar 22, 2014 22:49
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Skeesix posted:Part of my doom view of the movie may be that I work in math and I found the mathematical allusions to be particularly cringe-worthy. Agreed, completely agreed -__- [rantvent]I spent an hour entering my card information and ordering, re-entering my name and address & ordering again, and again...to no avail. Wouldn't play, no matter how many times I tried all of the things that the tech support robots will tell you from "is your computer plugged in?" to making sure that every piece of pertinent information is entered correctly, case sensitive, and that your name, address & apartment number are correct and match that of the information the bank has in their system...rebooted, re-logged in. I've been (pathetically) teaching myself programming languages since age nine, bought my first .com at age eleven... and began online shopping somewhere in that time frame, some twenty years ago, so goodness, I should be able to handle a flipping online transaction?! Anyway. I received several "your order didn't work" bullshit emails from amazon and gave up, turning to google. I searched "watch Nymph()maniac" and perhaps the second result down...clicked on a link and bam, free viewing. Sweet. Thoroughly enjoyed Part II of the movie, realizing that it had its faults, as you folks have discussed... attended to some parental duties after my hedonist two hours of movie viewing with headphones (big no-no as a parent, but it's the first time I've done so in months, perhaps years, so I'm forgiving myself)... now back to finding Part I, because Joe's soul tree is all twisted and beautiful, and I need to see its roots... so I begrudgingly head back to amazon, because this same website doesn't have part I. So yeah, I deposited $15 to ensure there would be sufficient funds for part two. Check Amazon out...Now it shows that my order is complete... For part two?! What the poo poo is this? It was easier to watch it free that screw around with running off to the bank to deposit just enough $, the 9.99 one (I'm broke okay; single mom, student, living off of student loans and the graces of God & whatnot) now... I want to watch part I, and I'm thinking... sweet, it's only 6.99, let's give this another shot. No go, because whilst watching the first portion too incredibly effortlessly (and illegally? unintendedly so, of course...), the stupid charge finally goes through and eats the $ up so that I don't have 6.99 left to order part one. Off I go, to the bank...to deposit $5, making my balance $10. Let's hope this works  [/ventrant]Anyway, I loved it, really did... Not very familiar with the director; so shoot me. I live in nowheresville, Utah at the moment, and have 50 hours of poo poo to do in a 24 hour day, pretty consistently. Ahhh, life choices. Anywho, I LOVED Dancer in the Dark... then again one of my all-time favorite movies is A Life Less Ordinary, which nobody likes. I often toy with the idea that anyone who actually ENJOYS that movie with me is the person I'll end up with. So far everyone I've introduced to it vehemently hated it... I mean, with a passion... so what does that tell you? The only other person who I've enjoyed it with is my younger sister, when we were children... and ending up with her is all sorts of wrong. So I am now on a quest to, somewhere along with school & parent life, fit in a relentless and obsessive quest to track down and watch all of his films. On a different note, I developed a definite newfound respect for Shia Won'tevenbutcherhislasname... in searching for a decent trailer for this, I stumbled upon an official looking pile of cast interviews, thoroughly enjoying his & "Joe's" actress... she's impressive. I enjoyed this movie in part due to her very authentic self-portrayal, throwing bits of herself into her character... Did anyone else want to give her a big fist in the air, or hug, for ripping up her speech to the "SEX ADDICT" group therapy session?! WE ARE NOT THE SAME, I AM A NYMPHOMANIAC, NOT A SEX ADDICT... however she put it. I for one, having much personal experience with group therapy sessions, was very pleased with this scene. Off to obtain Part I... and everything else Von Trier has done...
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Mar 22, 2014 23:58
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Binary Logic posted:Fingered [/b]by R. Kern j/k about that last one. Fingered is a pretty great film actually. 
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Mar 23, 2014 03:04
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Skeesix posted:Part of my dim view of the movie may be that I work in math and I found the mathematical allusions to be particularly cringe-worthy. The musicology wasn't all that, either.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:20
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Great Enoch posted:The musicology wasn't all that, either. In both cases when people start talking about the Fibonacci numbers, it's probably going to be a bad time for everyone involved.
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Mar 23, 2014 22:58
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All that stuff makes sense as stuff a spergy virgin would bring up when he gets nervous listening to a woman talk about her hosed up sex life. Or, I guess, complaining about how a movie character didn't explain them quite right would also be a typical thing for the same character to do.
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Mar 24, 2014 06:47
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Skeesix posted:In both cases when people start talking about the Fibonacci numbers, it's probably going to be a bad time for everyone involved. I'm no mathematician but the musical theories that Joe and whatsisface metaphorise are just kinda wrong, so I found it intriguing not in whether it was cheesy or not but more whether that was deliberate or not. Use of classical music in cinema is interesting for its class/race/gender valences LVT has a certain history of engaging with that canon (he was amongst other things contracted to do Bayreuth a while back but pulled out amid rumours of everybody thinking he was an idiot as well as a psycho), but I'm not really that familiar with his brand of irony so v  v.I'm never sure if LVT is either pandering to or taking the piss out of his core market of middlebrow consumers aspiring to a very bougie idea of transgressive media (cf. Story of the Eye, Philip Roth novels, de Sade etc.) Edit: This is also coloured by remarks by everybody (not least Stellan Skarsgaard who gave an afterscreening talk at the show I attended) about how directly translated LVT is into his characters. Skargy straight up said that a lot of that stuff is just stuff LVT nerds out on. Great Enoch fucked around with this message at 01:30 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 01:25
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Rageaholic Monkey posted:Am I the only one that thought Shia LeBeouf sounded way more natural with a British accent than his normal American accent? Have you never heard anyone from the UK speak? All the reviews here mention how his accent is completely and utterly terrible, switching around from sort of londonish to Australian then a bit Irish and everything in between. In some ways it has spoiled the movie in the UK altogether because the reviews harp on about it so much. After his performance here I feel like he shouldn't be given a part in any other movie ever.
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Mar 25, 2014 15:40
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It weirded me out every time he spoke because he honest to god sounded like a more cultured version of himself and now I feel like I'll never be able to take him seriously when I hear him speak in his normal accent again (not that I ever have).
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Taear posted:Have you never heard anyone from the UK speak? All the reviews here mention how his accent is completely and utterly terrible, switching around from sort of londonish to Australian then a bit Irish and everything in between. In some ways it has spoiled the movie in the UK altogether because the reviews harp on about it so much. Although admittedly I'm not that familiar with the different accents of the various towns in the UK, so I guess it would be a lot more noticeable if you are. Rageaholic fucked around with this message at 19:02 on Mar 25, 2014 |
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Mar 25, 2014 18:58
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If you think the sex scenes in this movie are too much, have you seen Blue is the Warmest Color?
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Mar 26, 2014 05:23
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I've only seen Volume 1, but what exactly was F doing with the tub & blanket bath? I get that he was 'given extra privileges' but it seemed like a bizarre/oddly specific thing to do.
unlimited shrimp fucked around with this message at 19:31 on Mar 31, 2014 |
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Mar 31, 2014 19:28
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bathroom sounds posted:I've only seen Volume 1, but what exactly was F doing with the tub & blanket bath? I get that he was 'given extra privileges' but it seemed like a bizarre/oddly specific thing to do. People have some weird kinks man.
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Mar 31, 2014 20:16
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Taear posted:Have you never heard anyone from the UK speak? All the reviews here mention how his accent is completely and utterly terrible, switching around from sort of londonish to Australian then a bit Irish and everything in between. In some ways it has spoiled the movie in the UK altogether because the reviews harp on about it so much. To be fair, no one is more obsessed with accents than Brits. I've seen debates over the merits of Scouse vs Manc accents go on for pages.
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Apr 1, 2014 11:34
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Skeesix posted:Also, I don't think I've seen it mentioned in any reviews, but on the train in the first part of the movie, Joe very obviously rapes the guy going home to his wife, right?
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Apr 12, 2014 10:57
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Ersatz posted:Yeah. Also, in retrospect, Seligman's dismissal of that rape and framing of it as not only morally OK but even positive ("relieving" the man) should have been a giant flag to me as to Seligman's nature. Before seeing Part II I just waived his reaction to that story off, vacillating between thinking that Seligman was either (1) sperging out and failing to understand what Joe was trying to tell him, or (2) concealing his judgment in an effort to avoid reinforcing her self-loathing. Yeah I thought it was more (2) and in fact while watching I thought that for a supposedly celibate dude he sure seems like he's trying to nice guy his way into her pants.
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Apr 12, 2014 11:53
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Binary Logic posted:I found the metaphysical conceit of the narrative to be very bookish (hesitate to call it literary). Initially I thought the movie was based on a book because the manner of relating Joe's sexcapades to fishing, to music, to math, etc is exactly how many modern novels are set up. Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance, Trout Fishing in America are the most obvious ones that come to mind. I think Crash(the James Spader one) is worth at least one watch through.
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Apr 12, 2014 19:11
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Seconding the Cronenberg Crash, even if I do wish it had a little more humor about it.
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Apr 12, 2014 19:51
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Magic Hate Ball posted:Seconding the Cronenberg Crash, even if I do wish it had a little more humor about it.
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Apr 12, 2014 20:14
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Catherine Breillat's movies might be interesting too? "Anatomy of Hell" is the only one I've seen, and I didn't like it at all, but it treads similar waters as Nymphomaniac.
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Apr 12, 2014 20:29
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When I was a teenager Lars' movies made a big impact on me, Breaking the Waves, Dancer in the Dark and Dogville especially. Even while I was aware of being 'manipulated' they would end up twisting me in a knot. But when I watched Melancholia and Nymphomaniac parts 1 and 2, I had no emotional reaction except sometimes the occasional giggle at one of Lars' glib jokes. I honestly can't tell if it's just that I'm so desensitized and jaded now that I'm nearing 30 (I am, but I don't know if it's just that), or if he's changed too. Stellan Skarsgard is extremely good in this. I've always liked and respected him but every time the film returns to a closeup of his face I can only think about how fine an actor he is, how much he does with so little.
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Apr 13, 2014 17:13
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This is one of the most entertainingly watchable films I've seen in a long time. edit: I do wish we could've stayed longer with Gainsbourg-Joe, it feels like there should be another chapter in Vol II somewhere. It did slot together really neatly, though, and when she finished telling her story I honestly thought that there was another thirty or forty minutes to go because it really did not feel like it had been two hours. Seligman's turn at the end was shocking at first, and then it seemed almost terrifyingly inevitable in retrospect. It's one of von Trier's nasty jokes that the first metaphor presented is about fly-fishing. edit 2: the focused inclusion of that Bach prelude is fabulous, look at the text: Johann Agricola posted:Lord, hear the voice of my complaint, It pairs well with K's line "That's not how this goes, most people don't scream until I hit them." Magic Hate Ball fucked around with this message at 01:15 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 00:27
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The ending does sneak up pretty fast, I felt the same way. Certainly any missing chapter will be in the 6-hour video release version! 
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Apr 17, 2014 02:39
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Did anybody else absolutely hate the ending? If the film had literally cut to black one minute before the actual ending it would have been astoundingly better.
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Apr 18, 2014 16:37
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What's wrong with it? It's basically the inevitable and perfect result of everything that comes before it.
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Apr 18, 2014 17:51
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I just watched part 2 and I hated the ending. I'm sure after thinking on it a bit more I may come to a different conclusion but I really wanted to have a non-sexualized character in the film. Also, what is the deal with Joe's girlfriend peeing on her? That whole exchange just seemed a little too ridiculous.
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Apr 19, 2014 03:56
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TrixRabbi posted:Did anybody else absolutely hate the ending? If the film had literally cut to black one minute before the actual ending it would have been astoundingly better. I hated the ending but I think your assessment of a better ending is wrong. There was something unresolved there with Skarsgaard's character. The way to not resolve it though was with a shot fired offscreen. Especially when it ties up in a neat little bow that Oh yeah, Joe really did hold back from shooting everyone. Much better would be if she actually had to resist him and killed him in some other way than with the gun. Also yes, loving on a nearby dumpster and then peeing on Joe was really loving dumb. But I'm sure von Trier thinks that's expected of him because he has to be some sort of provocateur.
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Apr 20, 2014 13:35
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TrixRabbi posted:Did anybody else absolutely hate the ending? If the film had literally cut to black one minute before the actual ending it would have been astoundingly better. Lots of us earlier up the thread when the film came out did. People have said that it's Lars saying "Stellen represents the audience and really you've just come to watch sex, so that's what he wants too" but it doesn't fit for me enough and it honestly ruined a lot of the film.
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Apr 21, 2014 17:42
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Taear posted:Lots of us earlier up the thread when the film came out did. People have said that it's Lars saying "Stellen represents the audience and really you've just come to watch sex, so that's what he wants too" but it doesn't fit for me enough and it honestly ruined a lot of the film. It wouldn't have felt so out of place if the character hadn't been deliberately set up as an asexual virgin who was more interested in fly fishing than hearing stories of teenage nymphomaniacs. It felt very out of nowhere and I can't think what the point of it was - I'd be interested to know what the director gives as an explanation.
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Apr 21, 2014 18:46
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Silver Newt posted:It wouldn't have felt so out of place if the character hadn't been deliberately set up as an asexual virgin who was more interested in fly fishing than hearing stories of teenage nymphomaniacs. I think it was basically to confirm Joe's belief that all human beings are hypocrites. It juxtaposes nicely with Seligman's feminist reverence for Joe's situation from five minutes before.
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Apr 21, 2014 19:16
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Silver Newt posted:It wouldn't have felt so out of place if the character hadn't been deliberately set up as an asexual virgin who was more interested in fly fishing than hearing stories of teenage nymphomaniacs. There's a huge discussion about how no one can escape their sexuality and the entire movie is about how civilization is basically a pretension. Like the entire movie telegraphs that moment and when it happens it feels more inevitable than anything, I have no idea how it could come out of nowhere for you unless you were taking everything he said at face value and not thinking about what was going on.
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Apr 21, 2014 22:54
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TrixRabbi posted:Did anybody else absolutely hate the ending? If the film had literally cut to black one minute before the actual ending it would have been astoundingly better. I didn't hate it, but it was extremely predictable and felt like the ending to a much weaker film. I'm sure it was all very calculated and well-thought-out; my eyes rolled anyway.
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Apr 22, 2014 02:00
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I considered that Seligman was going to do something like that early on, but as I worked with that idea in my head, the character seemed to diffuse it. Maybe it was too subtle, or maybe it was just poorly executed, but it seemed too out of character for him. I never got the idea that he was secretly wanting sex, so when it happened it felt out-of-nowhere and too sudden. I've warmed up to the ending a little bit, because as a lot of you have said, it really puts a period on the themes of betrayal and abuse. But I still think it could have been better executed.
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Apr 22, 2014 17:02
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acephalousuniverse posted:There's a huge discussion about how no one can escape their sexuality and the entire movie is about how civilization is basically a pretension. Like the entire movie telegraphs that moment and when it happens it feels more inevitable than anything, I have no idea how it could come out of nowhere for you unless you were taking everything he said at face value and not thinking about what was going on. You just expect better. It's too predictable.
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Apr 23, 2014 03:23
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What is the subtext behind the only unobscured shot of an aroused penis is two black guys who weren't successful having sex with the her?
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Apr 23, 2014 03:44
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Taear posted:You just expect better. It's too predictable. For me I think it was also the fact that it happened two seconds before the end of the film and cut to black for half of the scene. Not that the whole film wasn't subverting expectations but it was a very unsatisfying ending.
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Apr 23, 2014 21:02
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I didn't like the ending.
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May 1, 2014 13:29
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I liked it because of the shot of Skarsgard working his rod while he has this crazed expression on his face.
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May 1, 2014 15:59
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I would have liked it better if the guy in front of me didn't laugh heartily at Seligman's line before he gets shot. It twisted the moment for me. Our community theater put it on in two parts separated by a week; is this how it's meant to be viewed? I really would have preferred the full movie with an intermission. It was hard for me to remember details from part I that would have made the ending a little less shocking for me.
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May 3, 2014 17:20
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It was funny though? The whole thing is funny.
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May 3, 2014 18:38
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I found lot of the movie funny but I didn't find that line as funny as this person did.
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May 3, 2014 19:11
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