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Neo_Crimson posted:Actually seeing this boss fight in motion made me realize how awkwardly Vergil is animated, especially when he's doing his dashing attacks or his anime sword wave things. DMC3's Vergil fights, despite the game being a good 8 years older, felt a lot more smooth. I mostly just hate how they give him nearly a second's telegraph on half of his attacks when he doesn't even seem to hit that hard most of the time. I haven't played the game but Virgil looked like a pushover, and that's supposed to be the grand "FIGHT YOUR RIVAL" mirror match that's the highlight of every good beat-em-up.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:48
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Here we are, the only half decent boss in the game and it's just DMC3 Vergil but worse. Also Dante is supposed to have white hair in the end but you chose the black hair costume for some reason. Not sure if that was intentional.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:54
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Pureauthor posted:And lastly, the Vergil fight here has the potential to be a decent fight if it weren't for those mini cutscenes that constantly interrupt everything. DMC3 had Vergil going through phases too but they didn't need to cut the flow of the fight to change it. I'd actually disagree with this. Vergil just isn't anywhere near aggressive enough, he spends too much time dicking around rather than getting in your face like the really good Vergil fights did. I mean, I can see what they were trying to do, to have him transition between DMC3 Vergil 1 to Vergil 3 as the fight goes on, but it loses something by not having the space of time between the fights and the aforementioned cutscenes slow it down. Also, out of the five times I've fought Vergil, four of them had him get into a neverending loop of walking in circles in at least one of his phases, never doing anything while I beat on him. The fight has potential, but they just kinda screwed the pooch in all the ways they could have.
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Apr 16, 2014 18:59
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Neo_Crimson posted:Actually seeing this boss fight in motion made me realize how awkwardly Vergil is animated, especially when he's doing his dashing attacks or his anime sword wave things. DMC3's Vergil fights, despite the game being a good 8 years older, felt a lot more smooth. It's really weird because Ninja Theory's animation is usually pretty good. I guess at least half the problem was the designers insisting on having a full second of telegraphing before and after every attack.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:21
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I kind of wish this game had a multiplayer mode, like DMC3. Virgil's on your side for most of the game so it seems like a perfect opportunity. They could even do that thing Double Dragon did, and let the two players duke it out at the end.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:32
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Well at least the true final boss wasn't a big near-stationary blob that swings at you every few seconds like every other boss. At least it gives me a flimsy excuse to post some ridiculous videos of game mechanics in practice. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QVH_rAKvzw And here's the part of the game that constantly interrupts the freakin flow every ten seconds to give you some awful cutscene to let you know "Hey Vergil's going to change his fighting pattern now!" Have another video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AovdqybOCmE
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Apr 16, 2014 19:38
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I don't even know what they were thinking with this. Vergil has never once demonstrated that he's some sort of match for Dante. The first time he draws his sword is against "security guards" he defeats off camera. The second time is in the fight with Mundus where he IMMEDIATELY loses. Vergil's entire "plan" hinged around Dante being some bruiser while he was the "brains". No Idea what he expected to gain from directly challenging him. As for the fight itself? Its just a mess. The music is terrible and generic. He's incredibly passive. There are all sorts of ways to just completely shut him down or just glitch him out. The cut-scenes just slow the fight down and don't add anything. And no one calls their brother "Brother". Man that's hokey as all hell.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:42
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Look like you can deflect the boulders. I guess the spinny scythe move Bumfluff was using to easily deflect stuff in earlier videos doesn't work?
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Apr 16, 2014 19:53
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Pelican Dunderhead posted:Well at least the true final boss wasn't a big near-stationary blob that swings at you every few seconds like every other boss. God, hearing the music without people talking over it really make it clear how bad it is. I've heard dubstep I've liked before, but this poo poo is awful. There's no melody at all, the background chords are completely drowned out by dull BWOOOMs and random screamo, and the rhythms are simplistic and loop back in on themselves constantly. Jack Ratigan posted:And no one calls their brother "Brother". Man that's hokey as all hell. It's funny, because it's another example in how NT's attempts to make the story deep and meaningful actually make it way the gently caress harder to take seriously. The dialogue in the original games is campier and maybe even dumber than what's here, but people yelling "BROTHEEEEEEEEEEEEER!!!" at each other actually feels way more natural when the plot and setting make as much effort to be campy as they do. Spiritus Nox fucked around with this message at 20:00 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 19:55
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Pureauthor posted:On the bright side, at least it's not as awful as DMC4's final boss. DMC4 at least had the second Dante fight to make up for its final boss.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:56
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Sindai posted:Look like you can deflect the boulders. I guess the spinny scythe move Bumfluff was using to easily deflect stuff in earlier videos doesn't work? I guess not! I recorded this before where I tried that but it didn't work, then things happened and I was at Chris flat at the weekend so we did it live and I just didn't try again.
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Apr 16, 2014 19:57
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Something I liked about this game! Mundus when confronting dante directly before dante mentions freedom. That like... 30 seconds of video from 1:00 to 1:30 is pretty good. The sort of realisation Mundus has when he catches the back end of a revenge plot? It looks like it's the first time he has had his past actions really bite him in the rear end. Then there is some monologuing about freedom+Pain v. Control+pleasure and then dante has super hearing and remembers to start being an "edgy" 12 year old. So I can say I liked 30 seconds of this game's story. How long are all of the cutscenes?
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Apr 16, 2014 20:20
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You know, my favourite thing about this whole thing is, according to his rant at the start of the video, Mundus genuinely seems to believe that he's doing the right thing for humanity, that without his influence their quality of life would basically regress to that of a third world nation. And then calls out Dante for basically being a total thug. So, yeah. Mundus is probably the only likeable character in this whole mess. Even moreso when we learn that the only reason Vergil was fighting him was to take over in the power vacuum Mundus would leave behind, so who knows how much of the crap he and Kat said was true. Also, that loving Twitter sequence, jesus christ. And I could have sworn that there was a bit with Dante's voice actor skating away, flipping the bird to the camera... GilliamYaeger fucked around with this message at 20:28 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 20:23
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Dear God this game was just ugly. Some things had a nice feel for it, but they were just completely overwhelmed by the sheer... unpleasant, disgusting... just... ugh. It's hard to accurately define. It's insultingly simple and crude; like somebody thinking Travis Bickle was supposed to be the hero in Taxi Driver
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Apr 16, 2014 20:25
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I always thought it was weird that they made an enemy (dreamwalkers? the teleporting sword dudes) that was a way better Vergil boss then the actual Vergil boss.
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Apr 16, 2014 20:58
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Jack Ratigan posted:I don't even know what they were thinking with this. Vergil has never once demonstrated that he's some sort of match for Dante. The first time he draws his sword is against "security guards" he defeats off camera. The second time is in the fight with Mundus where he IMMEDIATELY loses. I especially liked how Vergil turns into a wizard in mission 19 with his teleporting and summoned swords coming out of nowhere. It reeks of panicked "painted into a corner" writing.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:02
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About the time the last stages were leaked, someone doubled it up with this. Classy of them to end on Dante's mocap flipping the bird. --- So yeah. The Mundus boss fight is terrible. Visually he looks like a blob of poo poo - he's just not intimidating; Classic Mundus was a big-rear end winged statue, and when he wasn't, he was a creepy lava hand-beast, holding up three eyes. His moveset, holy poo poo, how basic can you get? --- Small bit of trivia, Tameem Antonides' twitter account appears in the twitter clusterfuck; it's supaninjatam. --- Vergil is better, in the sense of it's a more engaging fight, but it's still awful because we actually can compare it the Vergil/Nero Angelo fights from the other games. And he's awful. He's simply not fast, or aggressive enough, and that's not counting that cutscene bullshit. NT "tried" to make it challenging like the other Vergil fights, but with zero understanding of how to actually go about it. So they just boil it down to Vergil blocking every single move, except after an attack. Where's his motivation? Classic Vergil was aggressive as gently caress. Chasing after you, changing his attacks based on your distance, or teleporting up to you to combo you to death, breaking yours if you keep it up too long, or even using different summon-sword techniques to keep you on your toes. Or he breaks out his devil trigger, and taunts the gently caress outta you. This is just achingly dull by comparison. Hell, it's not like we even have to focus on the DMC series; all Platinum's games have a "rival" fight, and they're generally the highlight. This is baby's first rival fight, for people with no opposable thumbs. --- congratulations guys, you saved everyone! 
Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:01 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 21:06
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notZaar posted:I especially liked how Vergil turns into a wizard in mission 19 with his teleporting and summoned swords coming out of nowhere. It reeks of panicked "painted into a corner" writing. I think he absorbed the power of the hell portal. Hell portal powers let you teleport, summon swords, and open portals you see. Also, those powers are specifically powers he had in DMC3, so even if they aren't explained well in game, they are at least following in canon...kind of.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:13
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Gensuki posted:I think he absorbed the power of the hell portal. Hell portal powers let you teleport, summon swords, and open portals you see. Also, I think I found out why they removed Lock-On of all things. It would have broke the (Fake) difficulty of the Vergil fight, when he used what is basically, the Doppelgang style.
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Apr 16, 2014 21:19
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Silegna posted:Also, I think I found out why they removed Lock-On of all things. It would have broke the (Fake) difficulty of the Vergil fight, when he used what is basically, the Doppelgang style. They gave multiple, and contradictory, reasons as to why they removed the lock-on, but it mostly boils down to them wanting to keep their retarded control scheme. Its inclusion wouldn't have made much difference here anyway, assuming the game played identically to how it does now; Vergil just blocks everything, unless on a cooldown from an attack, or if you can grapple him out of the air. His doppelgänger is more lenient. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 21:45 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 21:35
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Pesky Splinter posted:They gave multiple, and contradictory, reasons as to why they removed the lock-on, but it mostly boils down to them wanting to keep their retarded control scheme. I still don't understand why they would remove a fundamental part of a fighting game like DMC like the lock on though. What was with the control scheme? I found that it didn't look that different from DMC4 or 3.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:01
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Silegna posted:I still don't understand why they would remove a fundamental part of a fighting game like DMC like the lock on though. What was with the control scheme? I found that it didn't look that different from DMC4 or 3. Well they needed the two triggers to switch between the two weapon styles a-la Heavenly Sword! And two dodge buttons for some reason! You see they just couldn't do it!
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Apr 16, 2014 22:08
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 Also, now that we're done, I guess I can post these! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3H0Yh4o0NCY https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V4EWDapQzkE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QVH_rAKvzw
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Apr 16, 2014 22:08
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Silegna posted:I still don't understand why they would remove a fundamental part of a fighting game like DMC like the lock on though. What was with the control scheme? I found that it didn't look that different from DMC4 or 3. Here's their comments about the lock-on: quote:NT: "What is the reason for removing the manual lock? We wanted to build a system that didn't rely on manual lock. That was a decision made very early on by Capcom and ourselves." Capcom Stream posted:"Hi [redacted], clearly you are a manual lock-on proponent, and all I can say is this was an assumption that was playtested over several rounds and the returns were basically positive...I hope I'm not coming off as defensive, but we did fairly extensive playtesting/focus-testing and we knew that some people would prefer the traditional manual lock-on over the auto, but we had to make choices. We did consider adding manual lock-on, but it was super late in the cycle and we simply could not accomodate it." So either it was built without it in mind, or they were going to implement it and then decided not to because it was late in the dev cycle, or Itsuno thought a lock-on would be too complicated for people. Take your pick.  The biggest difference with the control scheme is the two evades, holding down the weapon button, a dedicated launcher/helm-breaker, lack of taunt (and aformentioned lock-on). Compare:   It's less moves, spread over more buttons, basically. Pesky Splinter fucked around with this message at 22:29 on Apr 16, 2014 |
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Apr 16, 2014 22:12
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Yeah, lack of lock-on isn't a problem (Ninja Gaiden didn't have it I think and in Bayonetta it's pretty much vestigial), the rest of the control scheme is.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:25
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Lack of lock on may not be a problem in itself, (the way the rest of the controls, angel/demon system, etc. are) but it still adds to the feeling that this isn't DmC, which is something they should have been aware of in designing this. Their whole attitude was pretty much "gently caress those games! This will be different and better!" but to people who liked or even loved DMC3, that just comes across as "we don't know what we're doing!" which... yeah. Holy gently caress I've never seen the ending, that dialogue is so horrible.  Its like somebody tried to out-cliche modern Hollywood. gently caress I just hate all of these characters more than anything imaginable. I almost sympathize with Mundus.
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Apr 16, 2014 22:52
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I could possibly understand the need to make gameplay a bit more accessible. But DMC4 already did that better with Nero! One button to do all the pulling/grabbing stuff, rather than 2 buttons which are only used in certain contexts and are only frustrating. You have 2 evades for some stupid reason, no lock on and all the other stuff that's already been said. At the time DMC4 came out, was there any general complaint about the overall gameplay? Because I don't get why the press had a hate-boner for it during the horrific hype marketing for this game. It's one thing to hype a game, its another to constantly insult the fanbase and say that they only cared about Dante's hair. My thoughts on this game? If I knew I was to wait 5 years for a DMC game after DMC4 and it was this I would have laughed my rear end off and said that Capcom wouldn't do anything that stupid.
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Apr 16, 2014 23:06
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Zaphod42 posted:Holy gently caress I've never seen the ending, that dialogue is so horrible. The ending is pretty much what happens when you Oh, and chuck in a blended mess of DMC3 Vergil, but without any of the build-up that he had in 3.  Temascos posted:At the time DMC4 came out, was there any general complaint about the overall gameplay? Because I don't get why the press had a hate-boner for it during the horrific hype marketing for this game. It's one thing to hype a game, its another to constantly insult the fanbase and say that they only cared about Dante's hair. The biggest ones for DMC4 were really people not liking Nero, and the recycled bosses, and the backtracking. Or at least, they are the ones I remember people being most vocal about. The press seemed to see DmC as an underdog; an auteur art-house type deal, that the unwashed gaming masses were only disliking out of spite. At least one acted like DMC1 had been the only entry in the series, or that Bayonetta didn't exist, and that all the mechanics DmC were introducing were completely new to the genre. 
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Apr 16, 2014 23:29
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The worst thing about the way the game was marketed and tries to present itself is that so much of what it changes, from the gameplay to the story to the character designs all the way back to the choice of engine (seriously, why the gently caress was this made in Unreal when Capcom already has an engine that looks and runs better than this game does and is so well optimized that you could run DMC4 on a toaster)tries to hype itself up as Brave and New and Exciting while being incredibly bland and sanitizing away much of what made the original Dante and DMC likable, making them way more derivative of the rest of modern gaming and its love of sure-fire sequels, grit, and amateur navel-gazing. It just shows a profoundly deep assumption of the players' collective stupidity.
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Apr 17, 2014 00:20
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Temascos posted:I could possibly understand the need to make gameplay a bit more accessible. But DMC4 already did that better with Nero! One button to do all the pulling/grabbing stuff, rather than 2 buttons which are only used in certain contexts and are only frustrating. You have 2 evades for some stupid reason, no lock on and all the other stuff that's already been said. My thoughts? It an unmitigated disaster, and feels as though there was no semblance of plot, and holy gently caress, where did Vergil get Teleporting powers, and the throwing magic swords he had in DMC3? I know he had the swords, but the Teleporting? Was that EVER actually in there? I know he used to move really fast, but never teleport.
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Apr 17, 2014 03:02
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He definitely teleported around in DMC3 when you fight him. Combined with his aggressiveness, it's what makes him so intimidating and difficult to fight.
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Apr 17, 2014 03:32
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It seems those posters of stuff that occasionally turned into corrupted images are racist demon propaganda. Turning cities into Progressive utopias are an accepted ending that got the green light. I still don't understand the deal with Lilith having to tie her skin back. Is she wearing a skin suit?
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Apr 17, 2014 04:10
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I feel kind of bad they didn't notice in the video just who's special Twitter account is being shown in the most dating scene in video game history, but I doubt anyone following this thread even needs to guess who's trending #Demons. The darkest part of my heart holds out hope that Ninja Theory was expecting some grand victory from WE HAVE AWOKEN to be an actual trend as legions of old fans humbly admit that NT had done good with Devil May Cry. Imagine it - several weeks after release, Tameem's smug slack-jawed gaze continues to loom over thousands of posts telling him how great his game was. About how everything in DmC was written like it came from Shakespeare's own pin; how every literal slingshot to the next cutscene delivered us not only a succinct and consistent plot, but how his unintentional comedic wit was only matched by the genius that could render onto us a baby murdering hero we could all root for. All of the video game consuming public would have awoken to just how much DmC deserved to be a timeless classic and how we should all be salivating at the thought of what a DmC 2 could even dare to look like. 
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Apr 17, 2014 04:35
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Just watched the rival fights from God Hand, Bayonetta & MGR Revengeance. How can one company, although being Platnium Games they are the kings of the genre, execute them so well while another company just fails so badly at it. Although then again, who the hell allows Ninja Theory to do anything other than graphic design and creating visuals?
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Apr 17, 2014 04:43
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That sure was an anemic final fight. It was very...like they were just like yep, we have an obligation to fulfill, Dante's gotta fight Vergil. That's just what happens so let's do that. You guys got anything about how Vergil fights? Yeah, I got one of those el pee vids off YouTube, quality is poo poo buuuuut it kinda looks like "man in red coat fights man in blue coat" if you squint. Cool, let's work with what we got. What do you mean, why don't we play DMC3 for ourselves? That's money circling the drain and this is a well-oiled demographic checklist machine, you are fired good day sir. Also, I laughed really hard when they were talking about how they did it and saved the world and gave freedom back to the human race while looking over the destroyed hellscape of the city. it's like Tails at the end of the first Sonic Adventure, except that had a hint of self-awareness about itself.
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Apr 17, 2014 04:51
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notZaar posted:He definitely teleported around in DMC3 when you fight him. Combined with his aggressiveness, it's what makes him so intimidating and difficult to fight. In DMC3 it's animated as him moving really fast with blurry speed lines and everything, not literally teleporting.  VVVVVVVVVVV EDIT: Yes for gameplay purposes he's "teleporting" but it's not shown as him moving by magic, it's just shown has him moving to fast to see. In DMC on the other hand he's quite clearly teleporting by magic of some sort as shown by the black goo and the fact that he uses it in the cutscene right after the final boss fight. MiddleOne fucked around with this message at 11:18 on Apr 17, 2014 |
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Apr 17, 2014 05:05
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Xoidanor posted:In DMC3 it's animated as him moving really fast with blurry speed lines and everything, not literally teleporting. Vergil teleports in DMC3. He does it in the boss battles (most notably the last one where he repeatedly tps above you and immediately uses Helm Breaker) and it's his style move when you play as him.
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Apr 17, 2014 06:08
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Vanrushal posted:Vergil teleports in DMC3. He does it in the boss battles (most notably the last one where he repeatedly tps above you and immediately uses Helm Breaker) and it's his style move when you play as him. Its also an ability Dante himself possesses - Trickster style in DMC3 and Dark Slayer in DMC4 both let you teleport around.
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Apr 17, 2014 09:23
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Scalding Coffee posted:
Uh, yeah, it was clear from the start that that was the case. There was even that silly sex scene where she has to readjust her face onto her skull afterwards, since it had gotten loose.
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Apr 17, 2014 11:14
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Pesky Splinter posted:Classic Vergil was aggressive as gently caress. Chasing after you, changing his attacks based on your distance, or teleporting up to you to combo you to death, breaking yours if you keep it up too long, or even using different summon-sword techniques to keep you on your toes. Or he breaks out his devil trigger, and taunts the gently caress outta you. This is just achingly dull by comparison. Vanquish did it best by making the all the bosses HUGE but also fast motherfuckers. The Rival fight, which is also a 2 on 1 fight against you, is also the final boss. What Im saying is Vanquish is an awesome game and does many things right that Platinum should reproduce in their other games. Namely Bosses and the non-stop action. Because Vanquish Bosses are loving amazing.
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