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Sniping to say this is a great thread.
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Dec 31, 2013 02:24
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Ramrod Hotshot posted:You use the past tense repeatedly here, making it sound like all of this has changed and this isn't where things stand. Is Part X that describes your current situation with Joanne? Considering the opening post said that OP "was married" with his wife, chances are he is no longer married. I would hazard a guess that Joanne either got so ill that OP can no longer take care of her, or she simply committed suicide.
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Dec 31, 2013 08:52
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This thread is taking too long. I need closure.
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Dec 31, 2013 09:54
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I keep waiting for the end, and I keep thinking the end isn't going to be pretty. However, I have learned a ridiculous amount about bipolar disorder, and I thank you for that OP. And I hope your life, with it's with your wife, or without, is more peaceful now. I can't imagine the stress this whole thing must have put you through. You're a good man, for handling all of this and still sticking by your wife.
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Dec 31, 2013 17:07
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Sorry again for the delays, too much holiday stuff going on...Skeesix posted:How undeniable? You never had that feeling where you wonder if you're just imagining the progress because you want to see that so badly? Over time, she went from not working, not driving, having no friends, and basically not being able to leave the house to driving, getting promoted in jobs, having lots of friends at hobbies, and being able to organize her daily routines. So yeah, there was progress over the years. potidaean posted:Great thread, OP. You mentioned that you slowly forgot what 20-year old Joanne was like. Does she remember? Was it like someone else's life for her? quote:Also, it sounds like she just "snapped" one day and became sick. Do people ever just snap back on their own? Or is it pretty much a one-way street? Without help, no, you won't snap back. If you ever read about what happened to people before treatment was available, it almost always inevitably led to being locked up and/or suicide. Van Gogh is a famous example. For some folks, the meds do work very, very well, from my understanding. I've heard of people who had one really bad episode, got diagnosed, fiddled around with meds for a month, and never had a serious issue again.
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Dec 31, 2013 19:02
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Part XIII: Some Semblance of Normal About two years ago, Joanne was stable. Normal. Well, normal enough. She’d held down a restaurant job for awhile, getting full hours the whole time, and had been promoted several times. Eventually, she became the GM of the whole place. She had a steady group of friends and hobbies. She had it, for the most part, together. After talking a lot about it with her therapists, Joanne decided to break off contact with Sharon. The benefits of having a relationship with her mother were far outweighed by the stress and pain it brought into Joanne’s life. It’s not easy for anyone to write off their parents, but at some point the negative outweighs the positive, and it certainly was having a major effect on Joanne’s stress levels, confidence, and stability. It was especially hard for her because it meant writing off the rest of her family as well; after cutting it off with Sharon, Joanne couldn’t have a conversation with her siblings or father that didn’t start and end in “you need to call Sharon. She wants to know this and this and this. She sent you a letter. Call her back now! How can you do this to her?” She made it through a Christmas without issue (spent with my family), which was a sure sign things were on the right track. Things weren’t perfect; she’d still have rapid mood swings from time to time, but they were typically less severe and she usually came back from them pretty fast, and always apologized afterwards if she’d done something out of line. Joanne’s doctors had been working on her meds. They didn’t change much, but did mess with some of the dosages and times of day she took them, which helped a ton with the drowsiness. For the first time, Joanne was able to function in the early morning without feeling like she was going to pass out. As her stability became clear, one question burned: what about us? Where were we after all this? We were close, we knew each other very well. We would do things together. But, we weren’t a couple. Years of unevenness had dramatically altered our relationship. Joanne had gone through many periods of arguments, betrayal, and disdain for me. Now she didn’t feel or act those ways, but things didn’t feel okay between us either. Joanne had lost much of the memory of our past: she remembered very little from our early years, and most of the years after the hospitalization were patchy at best. When she thought to our past she simply felt emotions, most of which were not good. There was tension. We fought again, but this time for different reasons. Divorce had come up in the past, but there was always a transgression or reasoning behind it. Here, things just felt hollow, incomplete. As much as I had feelings for Joanne, I had known during the bad years that there were no guarantees; even if Joanne somehow got better, there was no promise that things could ever be fixed. I just had to take solace in the fact I’d given it my best shot. Still, it wasn’t clean, as divorce hardly ever is. The tension between us turned into arguments, trial separations, and eventually it just became clear that it wasn’t worth it for either of us. Joanne was scared of being on her own, but knew this wasn’t working. I wasn’t happy about the way things turned out, but I wasn’t happy with our life together either. We decided to get divorced. Next up, Joanne’s new life. Then, my life, thoughts, and reflections.
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Dec 31, 2013 19:07
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Do you ever feel bitter that you stayed with her through the hard stuff, only to eventually get divorced anyway? I imagine it wouldn't be unusual to be angry at all the time "lost" in trying to save things/take care of her/etc. At least, I imagine that's how I'd feel, whether warranted or not.
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Dec 31, 2013 21:53
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Crusty Nutsack posted:Do you ever feel bitter that you stayed with her through the hard stuff, only to eventually get divorced anyway? I imagine it wouldn't be unusual to be angry at all the time "lost" in trying to save things/take care of her/etc. At least, I imagine that's how I'd feel, whether warranted or not. I guess this'll depend on how much their new lives cross. If they have ended up good friends, but the romance / relationship had died then it's a lot less of a "waste" than if they live opposite sides of the country and don't even send Christmas cards.
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Dec 31, 2013 22:18
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I have been checking daily for updates to this. I was in a similar situation, but I decided to bail after she cheated on me. I am looking forward to the conclusion.
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Jan 1, 2014 01:04
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As someone that has been living with bipolar for the past decade this thread has been great to read. There were a lot of rough years for me before I got onto meds that worked and things have been much more stable since then. There are still costs however. Much of my memory of my life is gone. This is probably the hardest thing to deal with. Over time things just slipped away and even more recent years I have a hard time remembering. I tend to only remember severely unhappy events in my life. This tends to come with a lot of depressed feelings when looking back on things. I have a hard time of thinking of any happy memories. The other major issue is my emotions tend to be extremely flat. The medication has largely prevented manic episodes except when I had stopped taking it which led to some bad events. I also don't really get depressed anymore either. I just have a hard time feeling anything really. It is better than before where I was hallucinating, acting extremely manic, being unable to sleep for 4 or 5 days at a time and a lot of other terrible symptoms. Staying awake for 5 days at a time is pure hell. Really worst of all is other people. My friends never really understood and I ended up driving a lot of people away. Even people that stuck by me it is impossible to talk to them about anything related to the illness. No one ever knows how to respond which can make you feel extremely isolated.
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Jan 1, 2014 14:17
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In what is probably a symptom of Hollywood psychological thrillers, I have this nagging suspicion that the thread will end with 'Joanne doesn't exist' or 'I am Joanne' or a similar revelation proving that the op was in fact mentally ill the whole time. (Seriously though, still a great thread.)
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Jan 2, 2014 03:18
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Very Nice Eraser posted:In what is probably a symptom of Hollywood psychological thrillers, I have this nagging suspicion that the thread will end with 'Joanne doesn't exist' or 'I am Joanne' or a similar revelation proving that the op was in fact mentally ill the whole time. "I am Joanne, I killed my husband"
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Jan 2, 2014 11:04
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FunWithWombats posted:Next up, Joanne’s new life. Then, my life, thoughts, and reflections. With you out, does Joanne have a support structure? Or has she gone back to Sharon's orbit now?
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Jan 2, 2014 16:08
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Very Nice Eraser posted:In what is probably a symptom of Hollywood psychological thrillers, I have this nagging suspicion that the thread will end with 'Joanne doesn't exist' or 'I am Joanne' or a similar revelation proving that the op was in fact mentally ill the whole time. Is this your first day on the internet? This whole story is obviously a hook to draw us in then hit us with goatse.
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Jan 3, 2014 05:01
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FunWithWombats posted:Part XIII: Some Semblance of Normal My wife suffers from mental illness as well. As someone who is (to a degree) emulating your relationship, thank you for sharing. You've inspired me with your kindness. I particularly sympathized with your assessment of Joanne's chances for stability in conjunction with your own feelings of love and attachment. I'm sorry to hear you ended up divorcing, but looking forward to hearing your perspective on the matter. I've many times wondered if my wife and I will travel down the exact road you went.
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Jan 3, 2014 07:38
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Great thread! It's been very informative and helpful. I hope you are happy now and Joanne has found some peace.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:22
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Chiming in to say this is a great and very interesting thread. Looking forward to the next update.
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Jan 9, 2014 00:24
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Sheeeeiiiit. I just binge-read this. FunwithWombats, you are really a kind and caring person. To have stuck with someone and support them through that I think takes one hell of a person. Just thought you should know.
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Jan 9, 2014 17:51
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This has been a fascinating (and depressing  ) story and am eager to see the conclusion.
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Jan 9, 2014 18:49
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As someone with bi-polar disorder, I wanted to chime in and say thank you for posting this. I was lucky in the fact that my mania generally did not manifest through severe risk taking behavior. I'm also lucky that I found a therapist who helped me learn to identify my moods and the shifts in them and to power through them with the awareness that I was experiencing depressive or manic states. She also helped me learn to identify certain triggers, which helped even more. I think my mental illness was exacerbated by being trans* and not dealing with it. After seeing that therapist and one other to help me with my gender issues, a good 90% of my issues resolved. I've seen some sources claim that as bi-polar people age, their symptoms lessen and become easier to deal with. So, while I attribute a lot of my recovery to therapy and getting help in dealing with my transsexualism, it may very well be that age has kind of mellowed my illness out. So, again, thanks for posting this. People really need to be aware and educated on the topic of mental illness, so I appreciate the courage it took to write all of this down and share it with people in such a public way. I hope that you and Joanne are both doing alright in your new lives and I look forward to reading the rest of your story.
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Jan 9, 2014 18:58
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Sorry again for the big gaps in posting: I got the flu and didn't really feel like posting anything while I was sick. Get your flu shots, people!Crusty Nutsack posted:Do you ever feel bitter that you stayed with her through the hard stuff, only to eventually get divorced anyway? I imagine it wouldn't be unusual to be angry at all the time "lost" in trying to save things/take care of her/etc. At least, I imagine that's how I'd feel, whether warranted or not.
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Jan 9, 2014 19:48
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Part XIV: Her New Life It has been about a year since our separation. Joanne and I talk on occasion, but it’s infrequent and mostly business-related: needing this document or that, paying some bill, or the like. I hear some things through the pipeline, and get bits of information from talking to her. Immediately after she left, Joanne had a strong mix of emotion. Relief, to be finally be out of an unsatisfying relationship. Fear about how to face the world on her own. Regret, unsure if she’d made the right decision. Guilt, about some of the things she’d done. And confusion, about who she was, what she wanted, and what the past years had really meant. Joanne’s moods, for the most part, seem to have remained stable, which is excellent. She’s continued to do well at her job, and she’s managed to handle a lot of the day to day stuff pretty well, all things considered. I was afraid Joanne would have some issue with this, since I handled most of the finances and things while we were together, but I tried to involve her and push her to do these things whenever possible, and that seems to have paid off. Joanne originally moved in with some friends, a married couple, and apparently that didn’t work out. She hopped around places for awhile, but seems to have settled into a nice apartment on her own. I found her on a dating site I was using at some point after we separated. I immediately blocked her to avoid any awkwardness, so I don’t really know if she knows I was on there. From what I gather, immediately following our breakup she went through a rapid-fire dating spree that led, well, nowhere. After a few flings where she got too involved too fast and apparently ended poorly, I get the distinct impression that she’s now left feeling lonely. She’s still figuring things out. She’s talking with Sharon again. Sharon is, unsurprisingly, thrilled about the divorce, and wants Joanne to move back home. She tells Joanne all the time about how she has a room ready for her and will buy her ticket and how she has plenty of good men from their church lined up ready to date Joanne. She’s up to her old tricks of offering to give Joanne the world. Joanne has no intention of moving back. Beyond that, I try not to get too involved, and don't know much more. Joanne hasn't reached out to me much, and really, I don't want to risk getting sucked back in at this point. If things went to poo poo with her, I've made it clear that I've had to draw the line, I put in my effort, and things are done. Tomorrow: My life, and some reflections.
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Jan 9, 2014 19:52
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FunWithWombats posted:Part XIV: Her New Life God, gently caress Sharon. Two mentally ill people don't need to be in the same house. I think you might have come out ahead just being able to never deal with her again.
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Jan 9, 2014 20:53
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FunWithWombats posted:Can I be mad at an illness? God knows I am.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:02
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FunWithWombats posted:Can I be mad at an illness? I'm always mad at the illness. I'm not sure I can directly take hating both of my parents for being themselves.
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Jan 9, 2014 21:23
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Sharon sounds astonishingly like my mother, who passed away a couple years back. I live in constant fear that I have some genetic predisposition for the conditions she suffered from, and that one day I'll wake up and something will just explode in my brain. Edit: OP, thanks for this thread. I'm sorry you've had to go through all this. The Macaroni fucked around with this message at 22:03 on Jan 9, 2014 |
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Jan 9, 2014 21:54
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Dang, was hoping that you'd go into so much more depth with the matter considering how well written your past stuff has been. However I can understand that it's can be, and probably is, a sore subject to touch on even after a year. Do you have any thoughts on it after the fact? In your new segment would you mind addressing how you felt initially as opposed to how you feel now? Knowing what you know now, what would you have done differently given the same situation? Has the debt that came with dealing with her situation continued to follow you(and/or her) after the fact? If you could give any specific piece of advice for dealing with BP individuals, what is it? Lastly, how has the effect been on you? Has it drained your will to date again? Reinvigorated it? Changed your perception on the matter? I have a billion more questions, feel free to skip any if you like. Hope to hear a follow up.
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Jan 9, 2014 22:26
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How do you think this experience would color how you approach a future relationship?
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Jan 9, 2014 22:40
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Hollister Crowley posted:I've seen some sources claim that as bi-polar people age, their symptoms lessen and become easier to deal with. So, while I attribute a lot of my recovery to therapy and getting help in dealing with my transsexualism, it may very well be that age has kind of mellowed my illness out. I've heard that myself about a few conditions and disorders, and some people do find the symptoms of their mental illness lessen with age, but it's not a guarantee. My mother's crazy slowly got worse in the last few years of her life--she had borderline personality disorder, one of the illnesses some people claim "mellow" with age, and was possibly also bi-polar. Each person's mental illness is a unique variation of the illness, which is one reason why treatment involves a long, horrid slog of playing with medications. (It took about eight months for me to settle on the right medication for ADD, and that's just ONE pill; I feel for people who take enough pills to qualify them as a meal.) Hormone therapy for mental illness is becoming a new field of study, for example, although I think research is barely out of the "anecdotal evidence" phase. I've read about women with BPD finding that their symptoms lessened significantly when they were on steroids for an unrelated illness, although obviously more research needs to be done. Not that I think you're advocating a "Wait it out" approach to mental illness, of course. And who knows--maybe the reason some people's mental illnesses ease as they age is because of changes in their hormones. You just can't put a lot of trust in blanket statements like "It'll get better as they get older." It's a really complicated dance, treating mental illness. At the moment, I'm contemplating a career in psychology, and it seems so expansive AND narrow to treat someone effectively. There are so many factors to consider, and each one needs to be considered carefully when you're treating it, and it seems like it's so easy to miss something that could have a significant impact on the patient's health. Ideally, if I do end up as a counselor of some kind, I'd be able to get input from the caretakers, since they're the ones who deal with the patient day-to-day. Anyway, FunWithWombats, this has been a really interesting thread, and I've definitely learned quite a bit. It's a shame your marriage didn't survive, but at least you and Joanne did. Sad, but sometimes "winning" means "losing the least amount possible." Thanks for the read.
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Jan 9, 2014 23:27
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UndyingShadow posted:God, gently caress Sharon. Two mentally ill people don't need to be in the same house. I think you might have come out ahead just being able to never deal with her again. onemanlan posted:Dang, was hoping that you'd go into so much more depth with the matter considering how well written your past stuff has been. However I can understand that it's can be, and probably is, a sore subject to touch on even after a year. Do you have any thoughts on it after the fact? In your new segment would you mind addressing how you felt initially as opposed to how you feel now? Knowing what you know now, what would you have done differently given the same situation? quote:Has the debt that came with dealing with her situation continued to follow you(and/or her) after the fact? quote:If you could give any specific piece of advice for dealing with BP individuals, what is it? Otherwise, know it presents itself differently in everyone, so if somebody tells you they're BP, don't presume to know what that means about them. Be careful about viewing everything they do in a lens of "well they're sick so they did ____," they're still a person and they need to live life to. At some point some of their actions belong to them. Help with what you can, be understanding with what you can, and then just try to have the best relationship you can with them. quote:I have a billion more questions, feel free to skip any if you like. Hope to hear a follow up.
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Jan 10, 2014 00:02
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Knockknees posted:How do you think this experience would color how you approach a future relationship? At this point, I'm not totally sure what I want, so I'm just looking to have fun and be happy for once. I really just trying to figure things out. Some part of me feels like I've done karmatic share , so I'm not particularly interested in getting myself into another high maintenance relationship for the time being. I'd say I have a more more mature view of relationships at this point versus when I got married. I recognize that things will change, people will changes, some things can't be planned for, and the world just isn't black and white. Life is complex, and having good will and preparation doesn't guarantee positive results. I've become even more cynical about many young people's / the media's vision of life. There's just this idea out there for this model life: fall in love, get married sometime during/after college, get a job, have kids, have a happy family, save for retirement, die fulfilled. Yet you can look around and see people falling off this plan at all different stages. Our culture tells you that these people are failures, that they screwed up, that there's something wrong with them because they didn't stick to the plan. The truth is, life is messy, people are messy, and there are a lot of folks out there just doing the best they can. Sometimes things don't work out. It doesn't mean things can't work out, but you shouldn't poo poo on people when you don't know what they've been through.
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Jan 10, 2014 00:14
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Was it worth it? If you could go back in time and never meet Joanne, would you? Or was it ultimately an enriching experience?
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Jan 10, 2014 00:33
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I've been following this thread for a while now, and forgive me if you already mentioned this, but I was curious about how many years have elapsed since you got married?
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Jan 10, 2014 00:42
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Very Nice Eraser posted:Was it worth it? If you could go back in time and never meet Joanne, would you? Or was it ultimately an enriching experience? Hah yeah, an enriching experience. That's what it is. You really asked that. Good job A+
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Jan 10, 2014 04:31
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Taima posted:Hah yeah, an enriching experience. That's what it is. You really asked that. Good job A+ Just because things didn't ultimately work out doesn't mean that a failed relationship is something you should regret.
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Jan 10, 2014 15:14
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Marijuana posted:I've been following this thread for a while now, and forgive me if you already mentioned this, but I was curious about how many years have elapsed since you got married?
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Jan 10, 2014 17:56
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Two final parts coming in today. Part XV: My New Life I had a fear of getting divorced for a long time. I outlined my reasons earlier for wanting to stay with Joanne. In addition to those, there are a lot of logistical fears about divorce: what happens when you lose such a huge piece of your life? What will your family think? What will your friends think? What will this mean for future relationships? How do you start over in your late 20s? The most overwhelming thing I felt after we separated, however, was relief. The day to day stresses of living with Joanne had been immense, far more than I appreciated while it was happening. Constantly being in an unfulfilling relationship was rough. On top of that, I had to vigilantly worry about Joanne’s well-being. I always had fear and guilt over whether-or-not I was making the right choices in the way I cared for her. I had to worry about the emotional ticking time bomb that defined her illness; when was the next time poo poo would hit the fan? How bad would it be? What was I doing? When it was all over, not walking around with all that weight actually felt very good. Figuring out how to tell my friends was something I agonized over. What I didn’t want is to have to spend the next couple months telling people over and over again, relaying the same stories, getting asked “what happened,” listening to condolences. That would be absolutely miserable. After searching around and reading a lot about it, I actually found that sending a mass email was the best strategy, and I highly recommend it. I told all my close friends, and let them know that, while I wanted their support, I didn’t feel like talking about things just yet, so I’d like to just move on. It worked very well; I got to hang out and be supported with my friends without having to constantly think about the matter at hand. Telling my family was rough, but my parents have been incredibly supportive. Really superb, to be honest, and I am incredibly thankful for that. The older folks in my family are still a bit weird about it, but I don’t interact with them much, so it’s not a big deal. I’ve started dating again, and it’s been really, really great. I’m generally an outgoing person, so meeting new people is fun, and having meaningful relationships without a ton of baggage is, well, awesome in comparison. I was afraid of how people would feel about me being divorced, but I’ve found that most people my age know divorced folks and often have had their own long-term relationships that went bad, so they can sympathize. Dating is still a weird thing to get used to, but I like it.
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Jan 10, 2014 17:58
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Part XVI: Philosophy and Reflections I mentioned at the start of this story that I was once a fairly dedicated Christian. This whole experience has left me feeling uneasy about religion. I always told myself I knew the answer to the big question: “why do bad things happen to good people?” I always told myself that if some big struggle happened to me, I could remain strong in my faith, and it would give me strength. In the end, my faith left me feeling empty. While dealing with Joanne’s illness, I felt absolutely lost, alone, and without a clue about what to do. I always felt like this was when religion was supposed to shine, but instead, it left me feeling even more helpless, even guilty, that I maybe wasn’t doing enough. Furthermore, one’s whole view of whatever a “soul” might be and the meaning of human morality becomes incredibly skewed when you see everything that you thought defined someone break down due to an illness, a chemical imbalance. What role does God have when everything about you can be taken away by the physical world? I still have a positive view of religion, for those who feel like it helps them, but at this point, it’s not for me**. So the big question remains: do I regret it? This is an incredibly tough question to answer. I do mourn the loss of my youth; your early 20s are a time you can’t get back or relive. Beyond that, it’s hard to say what I could or would do differently. Yes, the bad times were miserable, and there were so many years of them… but they also shaped a lot of who I am today. If I went and told my 20 year-old self “hey, don’t marry this girl, you don’t know what you’re getting into, she might go crazy,” I’m a stubborn rear end in a top hat so I just would have ignored the advice anyway (not that there were signs of Joanne’s illness when we first got married, anyway). A lot of who we are is defined by the tough poo poo we go through. If your character is never tested, how can you ever actually say who you are? If I left the marriage any earlier than I actually had, I would have spent a lot of time wondering if I’d left too soon, and if there would have ever been a chance. At least now I can say for sure that I gave it my best shot, and it just wasn’t going to work out no matter what I did. So yeah, I put myself through a lot more abuse than I needed to, but closure has a price, I suppose. Very Nice Eraser posted:Was it worth it? If you could go back in time and never meet Joanne, would you? You might wonder why I have this story written up, broken down, and outlined so well. A big part of it is that Joanne lost her memory of most of it. She would ask me from time to time about everything that had happened, so this is a story I’ve retold over and over again for her. The first few parts I wrote pretty soon after we separated, and the rest I wrote over the last few months. Thanks for the supportive comments folks, I really hope you got something out of reading this. This is all I had planned to write, so I’ll just answer questions and things now. Writing this thread has been helpful in a lot of ways, a really tough in a lot of other ways. It’s been nice to read other folk’s stories and experiences as well. -------- **Religious folks: please don’t turn this into a big debate about religion. I appreciate it, but don’t poo poo up this thread. I’m just posting my honest thoughts here and would like to leave it there.
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Jan 10, 2014 17:59
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I'd also like to say thanks for sharing all of this. My sister developed BPD while I was away from home and this thread has really shed some light on what things may have been like as opposed to my "rational" explanations. I really owe her a big apology. My question is this: how are you going to share this? You said yourself that there are just no resources for people in your situation and you've written some really moving and powerful stuff. I can understand not wanting to start a blog that you would have to maintain but please try and find somewhere to put it where it can be indexed properly and people who aren't browsing these forums will be able to find it.
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Jan 10, 2014 18:22
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Are you Catholic? I was raised in the Church and I can remember that Catholics revere suffering because it brings you closer to Christ. I rejected Christianity long ago, partly because its answer to the question Why do bad things happen to good people? is Original Sin. Evil exists because humans are imperfect.
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Jan 10, 2014 18:24
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