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With the trailer for Silence just out, what do you think the chances are that Christian groups are going to line up behind a mainstream and devout movie about prostelyzing and suffering for your faith? I'm guessing zero.
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Dec 1, 2016 22:15
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I don't know, I can see Silence becoming popular in church circles. It's not like these groups are fundamentally opposed to mainstream films with overtly Christian themes. Otherwise, they wouldn't have flocked to The Passion of the Christ in droves.
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Dec 2, 2016 03:35
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Samuel Clemens posted:I don't know, I can see Silence becoming popular in church circles. It's not like these groups are fundamentally opposed to mainstream films with overtly Christian themes. Otherwise, they wouldn't have flocked to The Passion of the Christ in droves. I don't know, it seems altogether too complex and ambivalent to do well in evangelical circles (it has a healthy support by Catholic establishment types, though): quote:For all that, “Silence” is itself a complex act of inculturation — a novel, featuring a European priest’s point of view, that could not have been written by anyone but a Japanese. The fumie, too, is an expression of inculturation, a point developed in a new book by the artist Makoto Fujimura. It is an image of God devised by the shogunate for the purpose of abuse, but over the course of the novel, it becomes an authentic image of Christ. Under threat, the converts abuse it. They renounce their faith. But that doesn’t mean they stop believing. They keep “hidden faith” in mysterious ways. http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/27/magazine/the-passion-of-martin-scorsese.html
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Dec 2, 2016 16:42
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Samuel Clemens posted:I don't know, I can see Silence becoming popular in church circles. It's not like these groups are fundamentally opposed to mainstream films with overtly Christian themes. Otherwise, they wouldn't have flocked to The Passion of the Christ in droves. Passion was kind of a unique case, though, and it was still technically an indie film (Gibson financed the whole thing himself and no major studio wanted to touch it).
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Dec 2, 2016 18:41
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Shageletic posted:I don't know, it seems altogether too complex and ambivalent to do well in evangelical circles (it has a healthy support by Catholic establishment types, though): I don't want to comment too much on the film's appeal since I have no idea how it will ultimately turn out, but the central theme of being persecuted for your beliefs by a hostile government plays extremely well with the Christian right in the US. I wouldn't be surprised if Silence ends up being shown a lot in Christian schools over the coming years. ComposerGuy posted:Passion was kind of a unique case, though, and it was still technically an indie film (Gibson financed the whole thing himself and no major studio wanted to touch it). That's a fair point, but mainstream is usually more about appearance than funding. The Passion of the Christ certainly managed to draw in a much larger audience than most of the films discussed in this thread.
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Dec 3, 2016 02:20
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Shageletic posted:I don't know, it seems altogether too complex and ambivalent to do well in evangelical circles (it has a healthy support by Catholic establishment types, though):
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Dec 3, 2016 04:07
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No you didn't read that right, what the gently caress  just read the whole article, it's actually really good!
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Dec 3, 2016 10:03
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Cemetry Gator posted:They're definitely comedic moments, and they're played up for laughs, but that doesn't mean it is just there to lighten the mood. I didn't see it as him changing because religion. It was more or less because of the gang attack on the girl. Up till that moment he was still openly hostile to the priest, and even after till they connected with a shared concern over what to do. I think through the whole thing Walt was religious, he was just one of those types that found doing all the extras and poo poo to be annoying, and the fact that the father was a youngster vs his sagely age, hence the moment Walt asks him if he knows about death. The ending was just Walt getting his last poo poo together with the suit, the haircut, and finally hitting confession.
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Dec 6, 2016 03:55
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[quote=""Sean Hannity Teams With Kevin Sorbo For Faith-Friendly Movie "]"It's been likened to 'Ghost' meets 'Heaven Is for Real,' with a dash of 'God's Not Dead,' " Sorbo said of the film. Fox News' Sean Hannity has delved into filmmaking by partnering with Kevin Sorbo on a movie in which the former star of TV's Hercules: The Legendary Journeys will play a world-renowned atheist whose beliefs are dramatically challenged.[/quote]No distribution yet but they're targeting November 2017.
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Dec 14, 2016 23:48
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Sorbo really carved himself a niche as "angry atheist" huh
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Dec 15, 2016 00:02
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UltimoDragonQuest posted:"play a world-renowned atheist whose beliefs are dramatically challenged." So a hate filled rear end in a top hat with the morals of poo poo....I think if anything pisses me off about "christian" films it's how more often than not everyone not Christian is an ignorant gently caress with no values
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Dec 15, 2016 00:17
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SocketWrench posted:So a hate filled rear end in a top hat with the morals of poo poo....I think if anything pisses me off about "christian" films it's how more often than not everyone not Christian is an ignorant gently caress with no values It has a lot to do with the particular mindset of the particular flavor of American Evangelical Protestant that these kinds of movies are aimed at. In this worldview that they have been taught all their life, their flavor of religion is both the source of all moral virtue in the world and glaringly and obviously true. Non-Christians acting morally cannot exist in this worldview because they reject the only source of morality and virtue. In the same way no one can reject their flavor of religion honestly without being ignorant of it because it is so blindingly obvious and perfect. Admitting that one can be truly good and not a Christian, or not think Christianity is true after having all the information, is simply not possible in this worldview, it completely contradicts it. Now those of us not in this target audience can point to numerous examples that disprove these notions from simply interacting with the rest of the world. The problem is that the audience these films are aimed at tend to isolate themselves through things like homeschooling specifically to avoid this. Hell, that's the whole reason for this thread, they had to make their own movies so they would not be exposed to evidence against their worldview. It's a very depressing thing to feel your worldview has been de-legitimized/proven wrong, and humans will go to great lengths to avoid that feeling. Note that this is only referring to a particular subset of American Evangelical Protestants. And about this specific genre of film. Devout Christians can and have made movies about explicitly Christian stuff, but this thread is about this weird insular sub-industry.
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Dec 15, 2016 08:45
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On that note, I feel that there are 3 distinct subsets of Christian film The Epic: This is where you can place things like Ben-Hur, The Ten Commandments, Noah, etc etc. More attempts to illustrate events written about in the Bible rather than trying to preach to/convert the masses. Well-Intentioned But Ultimately Flawed: This tends towards more of the Direct to Video/DVD stuff like VeggieTales or even BibleMan. Relatively harmless stuff that is really just trying to be positive and uplifting in some sense. Christ-sploitation: Here's where God's Not Dead, War Room, Old Fashioned, and the collected filmography of Kirk Cameron ends up. This is the stuff that hates you for not believing in the word of Jay-sus and why you will end up burning in the lake of fire for all eternity. Now, there is certainly cross-over between these subsets; I'd argue that Passion of the Christ straddles the Epic and Christ-sploitation sections pretty thoroughly for example, while this loving bizarre thing I just saw the other day called "The Donut Repair Gang" straddles both the Well-Intentioned and the Christ-sploitation areas.
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Dec 15, 2016 09:16
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You forgot the fourth category: Carman. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_UO8wlZymM
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Dec 15, 2016 09:51
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Ensign_Ricky posted:On that note, I feel that there are 3 distinct subsets of Christian film Where does Scorsese's work fit on this spectrum?
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Dec 15, 2016 14:21
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There's one film they keep putting out which is 'athiest realizes he/she was wrong' and I call it Strawman: The Movie
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Dec 15, 2016 14:23
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MonsieurChoc posted:You forgot the fourth category: Carman. Carman really is a genre unto himself.
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Dec 15, 2016 16:51
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loving Carman.
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Dec 15, 2016 17:28
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I don't know what the point of Christian spoken word is when preaching perfected it.
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Dec 15, 2016 19:53
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Hannity and Herculesquote:
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Dec 15, 2016 21:09
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HUNDU THE BEAST GOD posted:I don't know what the point of Christian spoken word is when preaching perfected it. Also what the gently caress does that even mean? Didn't Satan already fall? Wasn't that the whole point of him ruling hell? If you were to destroy hell wouldn't that mean that all the damned souls and devils would be loosed on earth and maybe heaven too? Don't shoot satan bro, bad idea
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Dec 15, 2016 23:59
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coyo7e posted:Also what the gently caress does that even mean? Didn't Satan already fall? Wasn't that the whole point of him ruling hell? If you were to destroy hell wouldn't that mean that all the damned souls and devils would be loosed on earth and maybe heaven too? Don't shoot satan bro, bad idea Absolutely none of this is in the Bible.
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Dec 16, 2016 02:56
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DStecks posted:Absolutely none of this is in the Bible. What is in the bible is Satan hanging out with God and making a bet to ruin someone'S life for shits and giggles.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:12
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Satan being a fallen angel is basically fan fiction. Also Satan being the serpent in the garden of Eden is never explicitly stated although for centuries people have basically just assumed he is. Who and what Satan is seems to vary a bit between different parts of the bible. Sometimes it's a certain being and sometimes it's just a more general term for adversery. But of course Lucifer's the light of the world. Hail Satan.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:23
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DStecks posted:Absolutely none of this is in the Bible. When did that ever stop anybody?
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Dec 16, 2016 03:31
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We're way overdue for a good adaptation of Paradise Lost.
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Dec 16, 2016 03:55
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DStecks posted:Absolutely none of this is in the Bible. Yeah I feel like most of the stuff about the devil comes more from Paradise Lost and Dante. Because the devil really isn't in the Bible and especially not his origin story.
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Dec 16, 2016 04:06
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Satan as depicted in the bible is that of a tempter and tester of men's souls. A few years back i specifically looked up every reference to him and its amazingly scant and what's there is hardly enough to justify the popular perception of him. Im not saying Satan's secretly a good guy just there's not any real biblical justification for what we believe, although maybe there's more apocryphal references that flesh out the origins of the rear end in a top hat devil we know. I haven't read any Jewish apocrypha but the gnostic stuff has satan as an obedient servant of the demiurge
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Dec 16, 2016 04:45
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FlamingLiberal posted:There's one film they keep putting out which is 'athiest realizes he/she was wrong' and I call it Strawman: The Movie I lump that into Christsploitation. Samuel Clemens posted:Where does Scorsese's work fit on this spectrum? Last Temptation of Christ? I figure it's somewhere between Epic and Well-Intentioned. Willem Dafoe as Christ is as harmless as John Wayne as a Legionnaire.
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Dec 16, 2016 06:07
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Anyone see Hacksaw Ridge yet? Very powerful movie, I'm surprised it's not doing bigger at the box office considering how huge American Sniper was, but that movie celebrated murder while this one comes to grip with struggling ideologies, which a lot of average americans rather avoid, judging by the state of things.
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Dec 16, 2016 15:35
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Ensign_Ricky posted:Last Temptation of Christ? I figure it's somewhere between Epic and Well-Intentioned. Willem Dafoe as Christ is as harmless as John Wayne as a Legionnaire. I was actually thinking more of Mean Streets.
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Dec 16, 2016 15:37
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ruddiger posted:Anyone see Hacksaw Ridge yet? Very powerful movie, I'm surprised it's not doing bigger at the box office considering how huge American Sniper was, but that movie celebrated murder while this one comes to grip with struggling ideologies, which a lot of average americans rather avoid, judging by the state of things. The valiant necessity of turbomurder is hard to sell if you have competing stories about a dude who believed wholly in pacifism and was willing to put his money where his mouth was to prove it.
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Dec 16, 2016 16:11
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basic hitler posted:Satan as depicted in the bible is that of a tempter and tester of men's souls. A few years back i specifically looked up every reference to him and its amazingly scant and what's there is hardly enough to justify the popular perception of him. Im not saying Satan's secretly a good guy just there's not any real biblical justification for what we believe, although maybe there's more apocryphal references that flesh out the origins of the rear end in a top hat devil we know. I haven't read any Jewish apocrypha but the gnostic stuff has satan as an obedient servant of the demiurge It's the power of duality. What's interesting is how there is this subset of Christians who want to destroy the concept of free will. To them, God and Satan are active forces, and everything is a result of their meddling in people's lives. God will send you the money, Satan will give you cancer. Even in that Carman video, depression is a result of Satan. It removes people from the equation, or it makes us an essential part of the grand universal plan. It also helps avoid the Why Do Bad Things Happen To Good People question, because Satan sent that hurricane.
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Dec 17, 2016 06:27
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Samuel Clemens posted:We're way overdue for a good adaptation of Paradise Lost. http://www.hulu.com/lucifer?utm_cam...CFcqNfgodyb4JyA http://www.paradiselost.org/ (the "in plain english" link)
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Dec 17, 2016 06:52
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Cemetry Gator posted:God will send you the money, Satan will give you cancer. Even in that Carman video, depression is a result of Satan. This isn't exactly accurate to how these people view things; they aren't nearly as explicitly manichean as you make out. They don't believe that Satan has the "authority" to do anything but tempt people, so depression isn't like a curse put on you by Satan, but a symptom of spiritual weakness. They avoid the question of why bad things happen to good people by denying it entirely; if something bad happened to you then you must have deserved it, period.
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Dec 17, 2016 07:29
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DStecks posted:This isn't exactly accurate to how these people view things; they aren't nearly as explicitly manichean as you make out. They don't believe that Satan has the "authority" to do anything but tempt people, so depression isn't like a curse put on you by Satan, but a symptom of spiritual weakness. They avoid the question of why bad things happen to good people by denying it entirely; if something bad happened to you then you must have deserved it, period. "These people" is a large and broad group. While it's true that most ministers would agree with your assessment there are plenty of Christians who do believe Satan takes an active, malevolent role that goes beyond temptation. As alike as much of American Christian media is, it's important to remember that there are thousands of separate denominations that consider themselves distinct from one another. I remember going to church conventions as a child where various Christian publishing companies would selling their books, and how important it was not to buy books promoting the "wrong" kind of Christianity.
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Dec 17, 2016 07:41
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Schwarzwald posted:"These people" is a large and broad group. While it's true that most ministers would agree with your assessment there are plenty of Christians who do believe Satan takes an active, malevolent role that goes beyond temptation. I was actually typing this follow-up post as you replied. Of course, a serious problem with talking about how American Christians think about Satan today is that it's not the 1980's anymore, and Satan just isn't as big of a deal. There were some truly wackadoo ideas floating around in the 80's at the height of the Satanic Panic, and some of them stuck around because these people admit that they're wrong about as often as they admit that they're sexually active. Basically, no mainstream American Christian would attribute something as significant as a hurricane to Satan's power; something that massive is exclusively the domain of God. But a heck of a lot think that witchcraft is real. And of course, the kinds of people who watch the movies we discuss here aren't homogeneous. So, for example, people who really buy into Prosperity Gospel don't attribute Satan very much power at all, if any, beyond tempting; whereas people who get into Spiritual Warfare think that Satan is extremely powerful, perhaps almost on par with God; though the second group is currently much further from the mainstream. The volatility of conservative American Christianity is because of how tied it is post-Reagan to politics. When Roe v. Wade first happened, mainstream Evangelicals praised it. But then abortion became useful for the GOP as a wedge issue, so Jerry Falwell convinced Protestants that they should hate abortion too. If Hillary had been elected, and Obamacare remained the law of the land, we would have seen opposition to contraception follow the same path as abortion; from a weird thing those Catholics care about, to the only acceptable position. We still might see that. Schwarzwald posted:As alike as much of American Christian media is, it's important to remember that there are thousands of separate denominations that consider themselves distinct from one another. Oh, absolutely. Not everyone who consumes "Christian Media" believes the same things, and not everyone who believes most of what those people believe consumes "Christian Media". When I talk about "these people", who I'm referring to are people who I would term "Subculture Christians", which is anybody who believes that by virtue of being a Christian they are part of a subculture, and even though that sounds perverse in a majority Christian society, I think they unarguably are a subculture because believing themselves to be one has made it so. They do have a wide variety of beliefs on various issues, but all share the core belief that their Christian faith puts them at odds with mainstream American society. It also just occurred to me that the rise of Subculture Christianity began soon after suburbanization and White Flight. Perhaps its origin is that, with white Americans becoming primarily a commuter culture where you barely know your neighbours, their perception of what the mainstream of American society is became purely informed by media, rather than community, and yeah, the media skews a lot to the left of the American average. If you get your mental picture of America purely from Hollywood, then it's not hard to see how devout Christians in the 1970's could begin to see themselves as outsiders.
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Dec 17, 2016 08:03
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The media (which I'll take to mean the major news networks) does not skew left of the general public. Just the opposite - the overall population is strongly supportive of the social safety net, liberalized drug and marriage laws, and tax increases at higher brackets. Socially conservative christians perceive themselves as a threatened minority because they are, and increasingly so. They're just a fairly large and well energized minority.
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Dec 17, 2016 19:32
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DeimosRising posted:The media (which I'll take to mean the major news networks) does not skew left of the general public. Just the opposite - the overall population is strongly supportive of the social safety net, liberalized drug and marriage laws, and tax increases at higher brackets. Socially conservative christians perceive themselves as a threatened minority because they are, and increasingly so. They're just a fairly large and well energized minority. I wasn't talking about the news media, because that's an entirely separate discussion. In any case, Subculture Christianity predates what we're generally talking about when we say "news media" (meaning 24-hour news channels with various choices). Also, keep in mind that a lot of the social shifts you're talking about are incredibly recent, and the birth of Subculture Christianity was going on in the 1970's, where socially conservative Christians' views absolutely did align with the majority of Americans. And that was part of their narrative; they called it the Moral Majority for a reason. And that narrative never really went away, but at this point we're talking about Political Christianity, which isn't 100% synonymous with Subculture Christianity.
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Dec 17, 2016 19:53
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basic hitler posted:. Im not saying Satan's secretly a good guy j He totally is though. Hail Satan!
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Dec 18, 2016 06:48
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