Seshoho Cian posted:

The Lawnmower Man?

LibbyM posted:

A grand total of one character from the book appears at all (Rita), and even than a lot of Rita's story and significant parts of her character are completely changed. Almost nothing that happens in the books happens in the movie, beyond: Keiji/Cage kills a server/alpha, relives the same battle a lot, gets better at fighting over time.
When I say none of the characters appear, I don't mean because their names were changed. Everything about who Keiji is as a person is different from who Cage is as a person. There is no character who is equivalent to Yonabaru, Ferrell, or any of the other significant characters from the book.

I want to make it clear I'm not complaining about the movie, as I said: "There's not necessarily anything wrong with taking loose inspiration from something and telling your own story with it". But what movie is a looser adaptation than one that features none of the characters and none of the story from the book?

Tenzarin posted:

Liked the exoskeletons and the mimics more in the manga, but the movie has a happier ending. If you liked the movie or hate the movie and you want more, go read the manga "All you need is kill". There is only 14? chapters and they go fast, drink some coffee or smoke through it and enjoy it. A good amount of the variables made it into the movie and I wouldn't say one is better than the other. Really you are saying they only kept 1 character when the manga only focuses on 2 for the majority of it? I would say the supporting cast gets more screen time in the movie than the manga. I would be more likely to have the movie on in the background than reread the whole manga again in any case.

sassassin posted:

What evidence is there to suggest the mimics intentionally lost at Verdun?

From what Rita tells us it seems like she had to retry the day enough times to become a really good soldier, try to tell people what was happening and get locked up for it, start having visions, and eventually get to a point where she killed a hundred, took a wound and bled out, losing the powers and leaving both sides stuck with the result of the battle.

If that's taking a dive they sure made humanity work for it.

What did the mimics get out of the defeat other than a mass assault that it clearly had to suffer a bunch of times before Cruise fluked the claymore kill of an alpha and hamstrung it again?

LorneReams posted:

They gave her visions that showed where the Omega was that were faked to draw her in to wound her, but not kill her.

They did the same exact thing to Cage, and he figured out that was their plan all along.

sassassin posted:

What does that have to do with intentionally throwing the battle, though? The trap in the dam is just a reaction to someone hijacking the time skip system. It solves the immediate problem but isn't a part of some wider plot to draw humanity in as far as I can see.

The Omega is faced with an inability to guarantee success rather than actually desiring defeat.

Snak posted:

Well, I can't vouch for this tactic's actual viability, but in the movie it was speculated that the Omega wanted humans to be overconfident with the success of the Jacket technology and that the massive final assault would basically be an ambush where the mimics would slaughter the remaining human military forces while also striking at the heart of their leadership. Remember that while everyone is getting slaughtered on the beach landing, the mimics are also launching an attack against London and who knows where else. The mimics know why they were losing at Verdun, they realized that Rita was looping. The humans though, don't know the real reason they won. The mimics know they have taken care of the human looper problem so they have a huge intelligence advantage. Their plan would have gone off without a hitch if Tom Cruise didn't star in so many scifi movies...

edit: It's also possible they had to throw the battle in order to trap Rita.

Crappy Jack posted:

Yeah, I remembered it being something like this, they "lost" to make the humans overconfidently throw everything they had at the mimics in one giant assault, which just made it convenient for the mimics to be able to wipe out the bulk of their forces all at once since they'd all be massed in the same area. BUT ONE MAN....

Snak posted:

The mimics know they have taken care of the human looper problem so they have a huge intelligence advantage.

sassassin posted:

I've got no problem with the events of the film as they happen, but Rita's assertion that the mimics lost on purpose at Verdun rather than she won a largely meaningless victory seems out of place. It's an odd conclusion to draw.

sassassin posted:

The same intelligence advantage they had before Verdun. The mimics don't learn when humans trigger a loop, right? Otherwise Cruise's maps and strategies wouldn't have worked at all.

I've got no problem with the events of the film as they happen, but Rita's assertion that the mimics lost on purpose at Verdun rather than she won a largely meaningless victory seems out of place. It's an odd conclusion to draw.

The idea that the mimics wanted an all-out assault so they could wipe out humanity is just a theory. The resistance faced on the beach is much more likely the result of the mimics having experienced the battle many times before (as evidenced by the hidden placement of the one that killed J squad - it knew where they would bunker down), rather than any long con being pulled. It's propaganda painting the mimics as absolute aggressors even in defeat/defence, and humanity as victims even in victory/attack.

Snak posted:

Think about it this way: The mimics knew that Rita had become a part of their looping network. They took that out of the equation and lost a battle in the process. They have the technology to reset time. Now that they have gotten rid of the human looper, they could reset time and not lose the battle, and Rita would still be out of the way. But they didn't do that. They left it so that the humans won, which lead to the battle that the humans were losing every day while Cage was looping. You can argue that it's coincidence, but it lines up exactly with what the characters in the movie say.

Strobe posted:

This presupposes that the Mimics could override Rita's time changing. While they could probably react to it thanks to the Omega having a sort of overriding knowledge of the situation, I doubt they could just that easily have reversed Rita's looping.

Evidence: when Cage got locked out, why didn't they just have an Alpha commit suicide to reset the day, this time with Cage on the outside looking in?

Snak posted:

Think about it this way: The mimics knew that Rita had become a part of their looping network. They took that out of the equation and lost a battle in the process. They have the technology to reset time. Now that they have gotten rid of the human looper, they could reset time and not lose the battle, and Rita would still be out of the way. But they didn't do that. They left it so that the humans won, which lead to the battle that the humans were losing every day while Cage was looping. You can argue that it's coincidence, but it lines up exactly with what the characters in the movie say.

Strobe posted:

A war between two Mimic Omegas already has its own movie.

It's called "Wargames".

sassassin posted:

This assumes an intelligence or level of strategy to the mimics that I'm not sure the film demonstrates. The time loops are an automatic reflex when an alpha is killed (which is why Cruise can use them). The ambush on the beach is a response to having experienced the beach assault before. The trap at the dam acts like an immune response eliminating a parasite or infection.

The Omega merely responds to the actions of humanity in the film, albeit via time travel. This makes it appear aggressive, when there needn't be any real intent on its part for the same actions to be taken.

Even the attack on London can be viewed as mirroring Cruise's later attack on the Lourve; trying to eliminate the enemy's central intelligence, and end the war.

Rap Record Hoarder posted:

What's the word on extras and/or deleted scenes for the DVD release? From the trailers and various promo materials, it looks like there was some kind of fight/confrontation sequence in the flooded Lourve area that got cut. (at about 2:12 in this video: http://www.keyartaward.com/winners/2014/av_trailers/entry.cfm?entryid=501410158&ispartofcampaign=0&index=20)

I'm probably buying the movie anyway, but it'd be really cool to see what got left on the editing room floor, especially if it involves more badassery from Rita, Cage, & J Squad.

Rap Record Hoarder posted:

What's the word on extras and/or deleted scenes for the DVD release? From the trailers and various promo materials, it looks like there was some kind of fight/confrontation sequence in the flooded Lourve area that got cut. (at about 2:12 in this video: http://www.keyartaward.com/winners/2014/av_trailers/entry.cfm?entryid=501410158&ispartofcampaign=0&index=20)

FrostedButts posted:

There's a lot of great featurettes that focus on stuff in the film you actually care about. The design of the suits, the physical labor of running in the bulky armor, the special effects, the design on the Mimics, etc.

The deleted scenes have some extra battle scenes including a few from the beach that were only pre-visualized.

One interesting extra is a complete cut of Cruise's final battle on the beach in which he makes zero mistakes.

Slugworth posted:

The sign outside our local Family Video says

Edge Of Tomorrow
Million Ways To Die

Which would *still* have been a better title.

SuperMechagodzilla posted:

Jesus did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

However, that fact obviously cannot be used to justify just any violence. Pacific Rim, for example, misused Christ imagery in the service of a fascist narrative of obliterating the spreading disease-enemy.

HoboWithAShotgun posted:

In the book / manga, the aliens seem to mimic human tactics and strategy by beating us in almost every single battle to date, giving their name. I'm not sure this was explicitly stated in the movie though.

Electromax posted:

They state it (Mad Eye Moody says it near the beginning IIRC) but they don't really explain what it means specifically. "They mimic our tactics" seems to mean "they anticipate our every move and counter it" I guess, based on how the Omega time-fuckery works.

Or maybe after Verdun they saw mimics dropping out of mimic dropships wearing mimic battlesuits made in China.

Arglebargle III posted:

Okay on the second viewing and on the lookout for the things in the thread, specifically with regards to the relationship between Cage, the aliens, and the military:

I agree with SMG that the aliens and the military are analogous. Cage is forced into becoming a killing machine by both the general and Sgt. Farrell, and the alien transfers its essence to him on the same day. The alien may baptize Cage with its essence, but Farrell shepherds and exhorts him on the way to his baptism, and in the first loop even literally says that he will be baptized. Cage is initially confused about his transformation and resists it, but is convinced by a (duped) Rita to embrace the violent, alien, machine nature and become like the alien/military. (It's no accident that Rita takes Cage through a huge bay where power armor suits are being constructed and through a door marked WEAPONS REPAIR to begin his training.) After a fun training/death montage, we get a look at Cage and Rita blasting their way through the aliens as whirling, leaping killing machines - in a fighting style very like the alien killing machines.

The interlude with Rita in the German farmhouse is thematically important. Cage sheds the suit and tries to pretend to be human again. Rita jokes about starting a fire and opening wine, but that's obviously what Cage wants. Cage tries to play at being a human again with her... and fails. He knows Rita takes three sugars without asking, and Rita realizes that his humanity, no matter how much he desires it, is an act. She insists that they keep fighting and dies for it.

Cage then finally gives up his attempts to retain his humanity, gives up on Rita, and tries to kill the enemy with its own machine/time powers. He pointedly ignores his squadmates dying around him, fights perfectly, and finally makes it through only to discover that it was all a trap. Fighting has been a trap all along, and Rita was just as thoroughly duped as Cage. He manages to get himself killed and reports back to Rita and the scientist that fighting is ultimately a trap. (Reinforced by the scientist's early summation of the enemy: "All they need is for the dominant life form to attack and WHAM!") It's hard not to find an anti-military message in that.

The two soldiers, veil lifted from their eyes, immediately go to confront the general, which by now should be looking like a fairly strong potential analog for the Omega. Sure enough, in his office (for plot reasons only or for thematic reasons?) they find the key to finding the Omega, and like the Omega he deceives them and attempts to capture them.

This is what I haven't seen SMG talk about :

From the confrontation with the general on, Cage and Rita are gradually stripped of their alienness and war machines, until when they confront the Omega they are unarmed, wounded humans. I don't think it's accidental that Rita and Cage embrace (he saves her from the falling concrete slab, but they embrace for a long moment afterward) and kiss for the first time just as they have shed all their weapons and war machines on the cusp of victory.

Anyway, the shots of their single dropship's departure over the cliffs of Dover with J-squad deliberately references and contrasts with the first 20 minutes of the film when a massive air fleet departs over the same cliffs. On the flight a soldier asks what they should do if they are cornered by an Alpha. In contrast to their earlier call-and-response with Farrell: "What do warriors do?" "Kill! Kill! Kill!" Cage tells the soldier that he should die rather than killing. When they drop into Paris, Cage's power armor literally weighs him down, nearly killing him in the Seine. When he meets up with Rita, she has also lost her armor without explanation.

J-aquad sacrifice themselves as Rita and Cage break the dropship, this giant military machine, tearing it apart as they drive towards their destination. In the fall into the Louvre parking garage, they lose their weapons. By the time they have reached the Omega they are "naked" without the suits and unarmed save for the sacrificial grenade belt. They embrace and kiss for the first time, in contrast to their conversation in the minivan when a power-suited Rita at first refused to get to know power-suited Cage because "it's just war." Rita sacrifices herself to distract the Alpha, and Cage sacrifices himself to destroy the Omega, for once not firing a shot or killing anything except the giant machine (an analog for the general and the military) that has transformed and tormented them throughout the film.

Then the ending happens -- and I agree its jarring and out of place. Even my friends, who were not really interested in discussing the symbolism, noticed how out of place the ending was and thought the film would have been better if the credits rolled after the Omega died. I don't agree with SMG that it's such a downer ending, although I can see where he's coming from.

But the military has been symbolically, if not really, engaged and destroyed in the climax of the film. Or at least, Cage and Rita have freed themselves from its influence and died nobly as humans, rather than as alien/military killing machines.

I think if I could just change a few little things in the ending to make it feel better or fit better thematically, I would have the aliens simply disappear rather than shut down, and the military disarming in the end of the film rather than surging to victory. We could see J squad getting out of the military, soldiers striking the huge tents on the Heathrow tarmac, and people shouting that the war is over as Cage walks into Rita's training tent. It would be nice to see the general get some sort of comeuppance as well, but oh well. I would really like to see the original ending.

Thoughts that didn't fit into this narrative but are worth remembering:

-Cage goes to confront the Omega, is tricked, and is stopped by two alien machines, which try to capture him and drain his blood.
-Cage and Rita confront the general, are tricked, and are captured by two power-armored soldiers. They successfully drain Cage's blood of its power.
-Despite being a major, Cage's relationship with the military command structure is relentlessly antagonistic from the first five minutes of the film. -The general and Farrell are sinister figures throughout the film, while the joe schmoe conscript J squad become allies.
-Cage attempts to desert for real this time, and the aliens attack London and kill him. Plot requirement or a comment on the futlity of disengagement from the anti-alien/military conflict?
-On first viewing it never connected for me how obviously mirrored Rita's lines about human connections are in the middle and end of the film. In the middle of the film, wearing their power suits, alien-blood Cage bullshits and fakes human connection with Rita. Rita says she "doesn't want to get to know you." When an unarmed Rita kisses an unarmed and wounded Cage at the end she says, "I wish I had the time to get to know you." Very cut-and-dried contrast.
-Very curious what the original ending was and why it tested badly with early screening audiences.

Arglebargle III posted:

quote:

*kiimo* worked on the campaign for the latest Tom Cruise movie, "Edge of Darkness" this year

Pander posted:

That's an area where I find the LDR:EoT groundhog day effect a little less realistic (*gasp*) than Groundhog Day. Repeating conversations, memorizing where a couple barney fifes go in order to steal a bag of money, that all seems pretty repeatable in Groundhog Day. Making the exact same movements at the exact same times during loops to escape the beach firefight just seems absurd. It's not just knowing patterns, it's repeating all those very complex steps over and over and over. Even after he knows how to get to the helicopter area, he still couldn't get there every time.

Thousands of years makes sense in terms of becoming proficient at everything and getting enough trials in to make it to the helicopter. But what about the side effects, like the omega trying to find him and drain him, or just general insanity over repeating the same steps only to fail every single time?