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So there’s a slider for raid intensity or something, you can get easier raids overall without changing wealth scaling. Also wealth scaling is added to time scaling and other factors as far as I know so eliminating it doesn’t get rid of those, but it certainly doesn’t make them larger
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Apr 24, 2024 16:58
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Jack Trades posted:Yes. If you are accumulating wealth anyway then the game is already going to scale up as time goes on, the problem I usually have is that because I tend to focus on the base building aspect, I tend to balloon in wealth rather quickly whether or not I have enough bodies to form a capable defence. So eliminating wealth scaling makes the game easier because I'm almost always going to be richer than I am capable of fighting.
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Apr 24, 2024 16:59
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Turning off wealth scaling will scale raids entirely based on time played. So it can be harder/easier depending on your playstyle. If you do quests, actively trade and/or have mods that gently caress around with wealth levels (Crashlanded, or Real Ruins for example) you can very easily overtake the time-based raid scaling and make the game significantly easier. Likewise, if your defenses are keeping up with the raid scaling, you will be fine and it doesn't matter if your colony has literal billions of wealth in solid golden floors, legendary jade sculptures and millions of units of corn, it won't make next raid any more difficult than it would be otherwise. But if you are a slow starter or had a huge setback then there is a possibility you will fall behind the time-based raid scaling, in which case you are hosed, because there is no comeback or slowdown mechanic.
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Apr 24, 2024 16:59
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Thanks, rimworld really wants you to die or finish an end game quest i guess. I am wondering if you want to play a scenario "forever" and have a normal colony without cheesy killboxes how that could be sustainable. Your entire colony can't be turrets and eventually all your pawns will have good equipment, but if every raid just gets harder over time on Randy as well then even on the easiest difficulty there will come a point where you can't defend any better but the raid is still too big???
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Apr 24, 2024 17:05
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Party In My Diapee posted:Thanks, rimworld really wants you to die or finish an end game quest i guess. I am wondering if you want to play a scenario "forever" and have a normal colony without cheesy killboxes how that could be sustainable. Your entire colony can't be turrets and eventually all your pawns will have good equipment, but if every raid just gets harder over time even on Randy then even on the easiest difficulty there will come a point where you can't defend any better but the raid is still too big??? You misunderstood. It doesn't do that on default settings. It will only do that if you go out of your way to disable the wealth-scaling in the settings.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:08
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I mean... yes. If even on the easiest difficulty you eventually find yourself forced off the planet before you're ready to start a new colony, then you probably should either just play on Peaceful or play a different game?
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Apr 24, 2024 17:08
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Cassandra (and oddly enough, Phoebe too) will scale raids up forever. How much it scales them depends on wealth, colonist deaths, and whatnot but the overall curve is upward forever, at least until it hits the raid point cap of 10k. They're designed to make you want to get to one of the endgame scenarios ASAP by making it harder and costlier to keep defending yourself as the game goes along. This is the main reason why everyone suggests using Randy if you want to do a long term colony; the events will obviously be more random and potentially riskier but it will stay relatively proportional to what your colony is theoretically capable of depending on how you set up the scaling. Due to Cass/Phoebe's upward scaling various events eventually vanish from the potential pool as the in game time goes on while Randy will still toss, well, random things your way like single mad animals and the like. Cass/Phoebe are also incredibly and boringly predictable in how they handle event timing once you've played with them for a while, but that's a relatively minor thing.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:15
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Party In My Diapee posted:Thanks, rimworld really wants you to die or finish an end game quest i guess. I am wondering if you want to play a scenario "forever" and have a normal colony without cheesy killboxes how that could be sustainable. Your entire colony can't be turrets and eventually all your pawns will have good equipment, but if every raid just gets harder over time on Randy as well then even on the easiest difficulty there will come a point where you can't defend any better but the raid is still too big??? Assuming you're playing the combat game right, even without "cheesy killboxes" your ability to scale power as the player can dramatically overpower what the enemy scaling can do pretty much indefinitely. Even 500 man processor-crushing raids can be killed by mortar batteries/neuroquake/berserk pulse/etc. If you don't want to engage with any of that, play on peaceful. You can absolutely play the game without dealing with the combat challenges. If you still want some combat but don't want it to bust your chops, just drop the threat scale to 30% or below instead.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:18
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Wealth as a raid scaling mechanic is fine, it acts as a general metric for overall colony development that's compatible with a variety of play styles. You can quibble over specific wealth values (floors are often argued as being over-valued) but the rough strokes makes sense and works. I find it's the way the raids themselves scale that is an issue, sheer numbers tends to win the day from simple action economy. Once raids get to stupidly large numbers like 5-10x the pawns you have it just becomes absurd and you have to start exploiting game mechanics to keep those numbers in check. You can tweak how quickly the game gets to that point, but sooner or later it does. I feel like there should be a cap on raid size, and then have the unused raid points shunted to off-map events. That way you can quickly get to a point where you feel reasonably secure with your colony without living in perpetual fear of the next raid, and also have lots more things to send your pawns out to do at the same time.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:21
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Fortifications are supposed to create that kind of security, but a lot of people are put off from using them.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:24
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OwlFancier posted:If you are accumulating wealth anyway then the game is already going to scale up as time goes on, the problem I usually have is that because I tend to focus on the base building aspect, I tend to balloon in wealth rather quickly whether or not I have enough bodies to form a capable defence. yeah this is a problem for me as well, I tech up very slowly because I just prefer that, but I accumulate gobs of wealth from skilled pawns and high quality furniture and large piles of extremely good-smelling corn
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Apr 24, 2024 17:30
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In my experience it is far easier to balloon in wealth, especially with mods, than it is to fall behind the curve of the non-wealth based scaling, because anything big enough to significantly set you behind the curve is almost always something you will reload or restart the game over anyways. Meanwhile, if you are not actively managing your wealth, it's extremely easy to forget yourself, stockpile tens of thousands of corn "just to be sure" and suddenly have dozens of centipedes drop pod in the middle of your base.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:38
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isndl posted:I feel like there should be a cap on raid size There's is. It's 10000 raid points which, according to the wiki, is 100 Pirates. Flesh Forge posted:yeah this is a problem for me as well, I tech up very slowly because I just prefer that, but I accumulate gobs of wealth from skilled pawns and high quality furniture and large piles of extremely good-smelling corn Just lower the raid strength, or use your wealth to purchase security.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:38
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yes I am aware you can lower raid strength 
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Apr 24, 2024 17:49
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Jack Trades posted:There's is. It's 10000 raid points which, according to the wiki, is 100 Pirates. I meant a cap on size as in the number of pawns it throws at you. 100 pirates is still an order of magnitude more than most colonies that aren't aggressively expanding.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:50
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Apr 24, 2024 17:52
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isndl posted:I meant a cap on size as in the number of pawns it throws at you. 100 pirates is still an order of magnitude more than most colonies that aren't aggressively expanding. I mean...even assuming that you somehow maxed out your raid points in the mid-game, without progressing your research tree that far, a single mortal shell or an IED will wipe a whole bunch of raiders at once. You're in a defensive position and you will generally be much much better equipped than the raiders. It's not supposed to be a 100 v 100 slog, you're intended to wipe the raiders 10 to 1 with your superior positioning and firepower.
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Apr 24, 2024 17:56
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Was that the exploit they fixed in the latest update?
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Apr 24, 2024 17:57
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Broken Cog posted:Was that the exploit they fixed in the latest update? it broke my heart, yes  Jack Trades posted:I mean...even assuming that you somehow maxed out your raid points in the mid-game, without progressing your research tree that far, a single mortal shell or an IED will wipe a whole bunch of raiders at once. yes dude we're familiar with killboxes and trap funnels
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Apr 24, 2024 17:58
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It's the poster child of a bad metric: Counter intuitive, easy to game, while also being extremely impactful on gameplay. This means playing by the arbitrary and senseless rules of wealth calculation becomes the game. It also touches everything the player does, so you get idiotic poo poo like having to micromanage the quality of shelves, because getting good quality ones is bad. And the "fix" is to remove quality from them alltogether…
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Apr 24, 2024 17:59
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Eh, you don't *have* to do that unless you're playing on the highest difficulties. And the people playing there has a tendency to read up and theorycraft that stuff anyway.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:02
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Are there any mods that make raids more dynamic with regards to faction relationships etc? I'd love to nearly be guaranteed a nearby colony send me help for dealing with raiders or pirates if I cultivated a great relationship with em, and for the number of raids and their size to be more dependent on my relationships with my neighbors than things I'm doing alone in my colony. I almost never play a goody-two-shoes colony that releases prisoners, I pretty much always cannibalize raiders and scrap their tainted clothing and would be interested in playing the good guys for once if it was worth my while
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Apr 24, 2024 18:07
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Jack Trades posted:I mean...even assuming that you somehow maxed out your raid points in the mid-game, without progressing your research tree that far, a single mortal shell or an IED will wipe a whole bunch of raiders at once. Like I said earlier, you have to start exploiting game mechanics to keep those numbers in check. IEDs want a kill box for maximum effect like everything else, mortars lose effectiveness when it's a raid of multiple groups so you're back to using a kill box after thinning numbers a bit if you're lucky. Superior positioning shouldn't mean taking advantage of dumb AI.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:09
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Kate Lockwell posted:Are there any mods that make raids more dynamic with regards to faction relationships etc? Pretty sure you can call for help from nearby allies if you have a comms console. I think they can also show up randomly to help if your relations are high enough?
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Apr 24, 2024 18:10
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Listen if raiders want to do a Gallipoli every week on my turf, who am I to argue? I downloaded a Mass Grave mod for a reason.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:11
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Raid point gain from wealth is even capped above 1 million wealth, which is not that much.isndl posted:Like I said earlier, you have to start exploiting game mechanics to keep those numbers in check. IEDs want a kill box for maximum effect like everything else, mortars lose effectiveness when it's a raid of multiple groups so you're back to using a kill box after thinning numbers a bit if you're lucky. Superior positioning shouldn't mean taking advantage of dumb AI. "Have to" is not the same as "want to". Install a mod that makes raiders avoid killboxes if you can't help yourself.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:12
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Broken Cog posted:Pretty sure you can call for help from nearby allies if you have a comms console. Yeah you can call help but it costs goodwill, and they can show up to help but it's only a random chance. On second thought I think the gameplay style I described isn't really suited for Rimworld. We're here to be bastard men
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Apr 24, 2024 18:15
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Eric the Mauve posted:Is there not a mod to turn down/turn off the wealth scaling? You're looking for Combat Readiness Check, that'll let you turn down the amount that building, item, and art wealth impacts raid size versus pawn, weapon, and armor value.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:17
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Broken Cog posted:Eh, you don't *have* to do that unless you're playing on the highest difficulties. And the people playing there has a tendency to read up and theorycraft that stuff anyway. that pic I'm showing was at something like 150% raid size, I just had a whole lot of high quality bling stuff and a lot of food etc
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Apr 24, 2024 18:20
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Flesh Forge posted:that pic I'm showing was at something like 150% raid size, I just had a whole lot of high quality bling stuff and a lot of food etc You're also 16 years in, I would guess most people don't play one base that long
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Apr 24, 2024 18:28
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There's a big reason why I was hoping this expac would be focused on world map stuff, because the only solution to raids playing out like they do right now is to bite the bullet and overhaul the whole faction system so factions actually care about their losses and have a limited pool of resources to work with instead of manifesting another 600 tribals to die on your killbox every week. I still don't really get why people have moral objections to "cheating" with killboxes. From a gameplay perspective, the AI cheats its rear end off constantly, doesn't care about losses, and has no qualms with hitting you with back to back raids with little to no recovery time. It's already not a fair game in that sense. Their infinite resources and numbers are meant to be counteracted by your ability to prepare for their arrival, and some of your preparations(like killboxes) can be countered by AI variants(breachers, drop pods). It's all very much intended. Playing without killboxes is possible, but it's like playing without electricity - a deliberate handicap that you're choosing to take on with the knowledge it will make life harder. From a versimilitude perspective, we've been constructing fortifications designed to meatgrinder tremendous amounts of attackers since humans have been building walls and digging holes. It's weirder for an established settlement in a known hostile and chaotic area inhabited by large groups of violent people to *not* have extensive fortifications, because such a settlement would never survive without them.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:31
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Broken Cog posted:You're also 16 years in, I would guess most people don't play one base that long maybe not  Flesh Forge posted:
update: don't do this, it breaks a lot of features of the Islands mod. let's see if you can get anywhere with Anomaly on a map with no rock or metal  
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Apr 24, 2024 18:31
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Kanos posted:I still don't really get why people have moral objections to "cheating" with killboxes. lol I am definitely not in that category 
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Apr 24, 2024 18:34
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Telsa Cola posted:In vanilla when choosing a world to spawn just turn off mechanoids and the higher tech factions. So I'm new to Rimworld, and I'm about 10 hours into my vanilla playthrough and didn't disable any of that, is that going to completely gently caress up my mid to late game progression?
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Apr 24, 2024 18:35
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Flesh Forge posted:that pic I'm showing was at something like 150% raid size, I just had a whole lot of high quality bling stuff and a lot of food etc Maximum amount of wealth that can contribute to raid points is 1 million, which contributes 2400 raid points modified by your Difficulty, which is x1.0 at "Strive to survive" and Adaptation Factor, which is at most 1.5 if you have handled your previous raids perfectly without even getting anyone injured. A Centipede is 400 points. (2400 * 1.0 * 1.5) / 400 is 9, times x1.5 assuming the worst case scenario of Randy giving you a max strength raid, is 13.5 Centipedes. All of your bling contributed to only 1/6th of the Centipedes in that screenshot. Expensive items are much less of an issue than what people imagine it being.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:36
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Mederlock posted:So I'm new to Rimworld, and I'm about 10 hours into my vanilla playthrough and didn't disable any of that, is that going to completely gently caress up my mid to late game progression? No, that stuff is fine. Some people don't like dealing with mechanoids but they're not game ruining or anything. That post was in reference to deliberately playing a low-tech colony, at which point dealing with stuff like mechanoids is really hard because the vanilla game assumes you're going to tech up and use guns and stuff.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:36
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you should try it at the default settings first and see how the game works. no reason to do that kind of stuff straight out of the box, try it and see how you like it at default settings.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:37
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Jack Trades posted:Maximum amount of wealth that can contribute to raid points is 1 million, which contributes 2400 raid points modified by your Difficulty, which is x1.0 at "Strive to survive" and Adaptation Factor, which is at most 1.5 if you have handled your previous raids perfectly without even getting anyone injured. what is your theory as to why that many centipedes were generated?
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Apr 24, 2024 18:38
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Jack Trades posted:"Have to" is not the same as "want to". Gee thanks, I'll install a mod to make raiders avoid killboxes. This will surely fix how I'm fighting a hundred pirates with ten pawns every other raid.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:43
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Complications posted:You're looking for Combat Readiness Check, that'll let you turn down the amount that building, item, and art wealth impacts raid size versus pawn, weapon, and armor value. Yeah I always play with that mod with the medium to higher scaling settings it offers. Having raids scale to mostly your combat abilities just makes sense, and it means that you can have a colony where battles can still be challenging but you're not totally screwed if you don't have a killbox.
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Apr 24, 2024 18:44
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