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H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe
What is an audio interface?

An audio interface should be the first thing you buy when you are starting a recording setup.

An audio interface is a lot simpler than a lot of people think. Long story short, it is a box that takes audio and converts it to a digital form so that your computer can record it. ANY piece of recorded audio on your computer would have passed through your audio interface at some point in time. Every piece of audio gear in your recording setup will be connected to your audio interface somehow.

This thread will look at audio interfaces (Beginner or shiny pro stuff) and help you figure out which interface to buy :)

How do I know which interface to buy?
A common misconception is that the audio interface you choose will have a drastic impact on your sound. It's true that you will get a better quality sound out of an RME compared to say a Behringer, but with interfaces, You get what you pay for. That means that most interfaces at around $150 bucks are going to give pretty much the same results. An Audiophile in an acoustically treated room with an amazing setup might be able to squint and hear the difference, but it's not guaranteed. Even then, it wont be a case of: "The audio recorded with the Focusrite sounds better than the audio recorded with the M-Audio"

For those of us just starting to record? You are going to get the same results using a entry-level interface as you would a uber-shiny interface. Recording is a skill which involves a lot of technique, a lot of ear-training, experience and know-how. Buying an RME interface will not make your recording sound noticeably better than a Focusrite interface.

The most important questions you need to ask of your audio interface is:
- What devices do I want to plug into it?
- What sort of plugs do they need?
- How many speakers are going to be plugged into it?
- Firewire\USB?
- PC\MAC?


Basically, the most important thing with an interface is the I\O (Input\Output) capabilities.

===========================================================

Question 1) What devices do I want to plug into it?

Have a think about what you want to get out of your interface. Are you wanting to record a full band or just one instrument at a time? Are you happy to plug instruments straight into the interface or do you want to use microphones? Do those microphones need phantom power? How many things am I going to record at once? Do I need MIDI? Remember that any noises you record on your computer are going to pass through your interface. You want to make sure that your interface can accept all the noises you want to put into it.



Question 2) What sort of plugs do they need?

There are many different cable types and input types. The most common are XLR and 1\4" inch jacks (standard microphone\instrument cable respectively) but there are also things like S/PDIF and other digital formats out there. Not to mention MIDI. If you're going to run external preamps, make sure that your interface has line-level inputs. While this is tied in very closely to Question 1, before buying an interface, MAKE SURE that it can handle all the different types of devices that you want to throw into it. Double-check.



Question 3) How many speakers are going to be plugged into it?

Basically, how many outputs do you need? Are you listening on one set of speakers or more? Do you need a headphone jack? How are you going to listen to all those wonderful noises that you made?



Question 4) Firewire vs. USB?

This question used to be a bigger deal than it is now. First thing to get out of the way, there is no audible difference between Firewire and USB. The difference between Firewire and USB is referring to how many different things you can record at once. Firewire used to be able to record significantly more tracks than USB 1.0, however most people manage to record up to 26 inputs on USB2.0 with no worries. Nowadays, the real reason why you want to ask this question is to figure out whether or not you need a firewire card or if you can stick to USB.

Note: Not many interfaces have taken advantage of USB3.0 or Thunderbolt drives yet. Again, this won't make any difference of the "quality" of the inputs, but make sure that you can plug your interface into your computer regardless of what format you are using!



Question 5) PC vs. Mac?

First of all, :siren:DO NOT GET INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PC OR MAC IS BETTER FOR RECORDING!:siren: That's an unending discussion. This thread is about the interfaces only. Very long story short? That comes down to personal preference. Some people prefer PC? Some people prefer Mac. I prefer PC. You may prefer Mac. The reason why this question is important is because some interfaces only support Mac, some interfaces are PC only. Double-check before you buy.


So long story short? The most important thing with your audio interface is "Can I use all the gear I want to use?" rather than: "Will this interface make me sound like Phil Spector?"


How do I find out what I need?
Look at what connectors are on the device that you want to use. If you're not sure, ask here!


That's all fascinating. I'm just starting out though. What would you recommend?
Personally, I started off with a Focusrite Saffire and it was solid as a rock. I would recommend anything by Focusrite. The USB version of the Saffire is the Scarlett and that's been getting great reviews. The Native Instruments Komplete 6 looks like a good starting point as well if you're interested in DJ\Electronic stuff as it's USB and it has a bit more I\O than the Focusrite Scarlett. Probably the most popular starting interface would be anything by M-Audio so those are worth a look too.

You could also have a look at this: http://www.recordingreview.com/soundcard/soundcard_wizard.php

Remember: The most important thing with your interface is whether or not you can plug in all the stuff you want to plug into it.

H13 fucked around with this message at 11:11 on Jan 13, 2014

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H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe
Reserved for real nitty-gritty information


====ADAT and S\PDIF====

C2C - 2.0 posted:

ADAT (not to be confused with an ADAT, which is a fairly old Alesis machine. However, it introduced the protocol)
Aside from some kind of multi-channel digital effects unit (or something - if such a thing even exists), the most common use for ADAT out is probably to feed a multi-channel DAC in order to get a whole bunch more analog outs, which can then be fed into whatever devices you choose. That could be feeding into a console/mixer or it could just be a whole bunch of additional connections for analog outboard.

Also, multi-channel interfaces that have a standalone mode of operation and that have ADAT outputs can often be configured to map their analog inputs to their ADAT outputs so that they effectively become an additional bank of ADAT-equipped pres/line inputs that can be connected to another interface's ADAT input.


S/PDIF
A 2-channel digital audio format. Typically carried by an input/output in the form of an RCA connection.


I've noticed that there are a handful of interfaces out there that support Firewire-to-Thunderbolt; I'd imagine that in this instance, the user is still constrained to FW specs, right?

ashgromnies
Jun 19, 2004
Would you consider a digital mixer such as http://www.mackie.com/products/onyxiseries/ as containing an audio interface?

If you're looking to integrate your interface with your mixer it seems like a digital mixer might be worth looking into. You could ditch the interface entirely and get all your input channels on the mixer as inputs in your DAW, as well as have the benefit of having an analog outboard mixer(along with the option to MIDI control your software mixer)

ShaneB
Oct 22, 2002


Posting to new thread:

I currently have a E-mu 1616m audio interface that is actually pretty awesome (great DAC/ADC, good headphone output, tons of I/Os, etc), but has enough annoyances that I'm debating selling it and getting something else. I really don't like it's lack of hardware control for monitors, and the windows software is powerful but clumsy.

Things I'd like: dial that controls volume output to monitors, really high quality DAC/ADC, and simple and powerful windows driver/software. I don't necessarily need a ton of inputs/outputs because I don't do much (any) analog to digital recording, and stuff like ultimate pre-amp quality for mics or whatever is more or less a non-issue as I'm on budget monitors in an untreated room and mostly just want something that doesn't irritate me so I can start working on electronic music production. I also listen to music a lot on this computer so DAC quality and headphone output quality can be weighted pretty highly.

Budget is $300 or less, I'd wager. Not sure how much I can get for this 1616m on the used market, but it looks like I could see $100-150 max, so I have about 150-200 to spend on an upgrade/sidegrade.

I'm currently looking at:
Native Instruments Komplete Audio 6 http://www.native-instruments.com/en/products/komplete/audio-interfaces/komplete-audio-6/

Focusrite Scarlett 2i4 http://us.focusrite.com/usb-audio-interfaces/scarlett-2i4

PreSonus Audiobox 44VSL http://www.presonus.com/products/audiobox-44vsl or 22VSL http://www.presonus.com/productvs/audiobox-22vsl

Professor Science
Mar 8, 2006
diplodocus + mortarboard = party
q: it used to be that FireWire offered significantly better latency (for exactly the same reasons that a FireWire jack can very easily be used to own a machine). is this still true?

(I will say that in general you should avoid bus-powered USB if at all possible, especially if you're doing anything with mics)

Flipperwaldt
Nov 11, 2011

Won't somebody think of the starving hamsters in China?



Time for me to mention the Roland Quad Capture's power reconditioning again then. Or the Duo Capture Ex' ability to run on batteries.

I mostly wanted those two mentioned on the first page of this thread as they are definitely worthy of consideration :)

Quad Capture has been rock solid for me so far. The longer I'm using this thing, the more I can appreciate the automatic level setting thing. On the surface it looks like a gimmick, but it is in fact really, really convenient.

iostream.h
Mar 14, 2006
I want your happy place to slap you as it flies by.

I've had a couple of PreSonus units, the FireStudio Mobile, Firestudio and the FireBox (I think I got those right anyway) and have to say they've all had really nice pre's, quiet and solid construction with great driver support. I don't think you can really go wrong with one of their pieces.

honky dong
Sep 2, 2011

I'll throw out a plug for the interface I use -- Phonic Firefly 808 Universal http://www.phonic.com/index.php?dispatch=products.view&product_id=74 8 mic pres, 18 channels total. I paid $320 off eBay best offer.

The company builds products for a lot of the other pro audio brands. Many people don't know about their products because they don't advertise as to not step on their business partners' toes. From their 'about us' page:

Phonic posted:

We don’t spend money on fancy advertisements, over the top packaging or marketing consultants but the frugalness stops there. One thing Phonic splurges on is our products. Phonic continuously invests in the latest technology, efficient product designs, dependable build quality and long term reliability. Today, while most companies seek to cut costs by outsourcing, we manufacture our products in 100% owned, ISO-certified factories to ensure oversight on everything from components to quality control.
Seriously top quality products at Behringer prices. This is by far the best interface I've owned. I wouldn't replace it with anything else unless I were to step up to the high end Apogee or Universal Audio interfaces.

e: a great in depth review of the interface: http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Pro-Reviews/Phonic-Firefly-808-Universal-Interface-Now-with-Conclusions/td-p/28595603

ShaneB
Oct 22, 2002


I snagged a Komplete Audio 6 today and ran into an issue. Seems like USB audio interfaces don't necessarily play nice with USB wifi adapters. I get bad latency issues if I have a lot of network traffic. I tried moving the USB wifi adapter to different ports, but no dice. I'll probably just get one of those passive volume knobs that go in between the audio interface and the monitors and live with the 1616m, which really does have exemplary sound quality and a ton of i/o's, saving some cash along the way.

iostream.h
Mar 14, 2006
I want your happy place to slap you as it flies by.

ShaneB posted:

I snagged a Komplete Audio 6 today and ran into an issue. Seems like USB audio interfaces don't necessarily play nice with USB wifi adapters
It's not necessarily limited to USB wifi adapters. There are a LOT of issues with Windows and WirelessZeroConf (or something similar) being the primary culprit as I recall. Granted, it's been a long time since I've tried to record on a Windows machine, but the latency issues were the biggest issue. Incidentally (and no, I'm not trying to take this thread in a 'myOS/yourOS' direction) this is a big reason many people consider the MacOS superior for recording, due to CoreAudio.

Radiapathy
Dec 3, 2011

Snooping as usual, I see.

Hammer Floyd posted:

That's all fascinating. I'm just starting out though. What would you recommend?
Personally, I started off with a Focusrite Saffire and it was solid as a rock. I would recommend anything by Focusrite. The USB version of the Saffire is the Scarlett and that's been getting great reviews. The Native Instruments Komplete 6 looks like a good starting point as well if you're interested in DJ\Electronic stuff as it's USB and it has a bit more I\O than the Focusrite Scarlett. Probably the most popular starting interface would be anything by M-Audio so those are worth a look too.
If the OP is going to recommend brands/models, I challenge the blanket suggestion of Focusrite interfaces. No experience with the Saffires (although I hear they're good), but the entry-level Scarletts (2i2, 2i4) have quite possibly the worst latency on the market, and generally have fewer features and less impressive specs than several other current interfaces for the same price. I'm hoping that when Steinberg finally starts shipping their new UR44 it will price competitively with the 2i4 like the UR22 does with the 2i2, because there aren't a lot of good affordable interfaces with more than 2 ins and outs.

ShaneB posted:

I snagged a Komplete Audio 6 today and ran into an issue. Seems like USB audio interfaces don't necessarily play nice with USB wifi adapters. I get bad latency issues if I have a lot of network traffic. I tried moving the USB wifi adapter to different ports, but no dice. I'll probably just get one of those passive volume knobs that go in between the audio interface and the monitors and live with the 1616m, which really does have exemplary sound quality and a ton of i/o's, saving some cash along the way.
Dunno what your specific setup is, but I experienced significant enough USB issues with the Komplete Audio 6 (different problems on both USB 2 and USB 3 ports) that I sold mine last year; and WiFi wasn't an issue in my case. I can see the WiFi adapter being a problem if you don't have it on an isolated USB bus, though.

Do you have a free Ethernet port? A wireless bridge might be a good solution that frees up your USB for music gear. (Not practical if you're on a laptop though.)

As for "passive volume knobs" I've been super pleased with my SM Pro M Patch V2. It sits between my interface and monitors. (Also acts as a headphone amp if you plug in the included power adapter, but the path to the monitors is always passive.)

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe

Radiapathy posted:

If the OP is going to recommend brands/models, I challenge the blanket suggestion of Focusrite interfaces. No experience with the Saffires (although I hear they're good), but the entry-level Scarletts (2i2, 2i4) have quite possibly the worst latency on the market, and generally have fewer features and less impressive specs than several other current interfaces for the same price. I'm hoping that when Steinberg finally starts shipping their new UR44 it will price competitively with the 2i4 like the UR22 does with the 2i2, because there aren't a lot of good affordable interfaces with more than 2 ins and outs.

To my last dying breath, I would never ever recommend somebody buy a Steinberg interface. I had an MR816 and it was horrible. Drop outs, stutters, no line-level inputs, and absolutely NO support from Steinberg or Yamaha. If you buy a Steinberg and it doesn't work out for whatever reason, you're on your own.

That's the main reason why I'd never suggest a Steinberg for a first interface. You have to rely on internet nerds helping you instead of the company that made it.

ShaneB
Oct 22, 2002


Radiapathy posted:

Dunno what your specific setup is, but I experienced significant enough USB issues with the Komplete Audio 6 (different problems on both USB 2 and USB 3 ports) that I sold mine last year; and WiFi wasn't an issue in my case. I can see the WiFi adapter being a problem if you don't have it on an isolated USB bus, though.

Do you have a free Ethernet port? A wireless bridge might be a good solution that frees up your USB for music gear. (Not practical if you're on a laptop though.)

As for "passive volume knobs" I've been super pleased with my SM Pro M Patch V2. It sits between my interface and monitors. (Also acts as a headphone amp if you plug in the included power adapter, but the path to the monitors is always passive.)

I was just looking at this guy: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001PGMNRG/

The 1616m is honestly higher specs than anything in the $200 price range I think, so just throwing a monitor volume dial on it is going to result in higher quality than pretty much anything I'd replace it with. I just had new gear disease... :(

Radiapathy
Dec 3, 2011

Snooping as usual, I see.

Hammer Floyd posted:

That's the main reason why I'd never suggest a Steinberg for a first interface. You have to rely on internet nerds helping you instead of the company that made it.

I don't have sweeping opinions on any vendor. My position is based on actual experience with specific interfaces. I own the 2i2 and UR22 (and 6 or 7 other current models) and have tested and worked with them pretty extensively. The 2i2 is not the value that some people think it is. If you've got some kind of general beef with Steinberg there are still several viable alternatives to the low end Scarletts.

DEUCE SLUICE
Feb 6, 2004

I dreamt I was an old dog, stuck in a honeypot. It was horrifying.
I tried the 2i2 first and was impressed by everything, except that I couldn't actually plug any of my instruments into it and play without clipping, even with the input gain knob all the way down. Seemed like a commonly reported problem, but isolated only to the 2i2, so I exchanged for the 6i6 and have been exceptionally pleased since.

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe

Radiapathy posted:

I don't have sweeping opinions on any vendor. My position is based on actual experience with specific interfaces.

Yup. So am I. I owned their flagship the MR816 and they weren't giving technical support on that. Nor was it reliable or very good.

I actually went BACK to my Focusrite Saffire after owning the MR816 and trying to get it to play nice for about a year.

Then I bought an RME UCX and it was literally plug and play. I wouldn't say an RME is a great first interface or anything, but just saying...

hohum
Mar 17, 2010

umoms.
:thumbsup:

People bitch about driver issues on the NI Komplete 6 though. But at the same time, those who can get it to work seem to love it.

I had a USBpre 2 (http://www.sounddevices.com/products/usbpre2). I basically over paid for a two channel audio interface that broke in a year. Because OMG WE HAS TEH BEST PREAMPS IN TEH BIZ!

Don't get sucked into marketing like that. As long as the preamps aren't complete poo poo, you'll do fine. It's pretty trivial to get a high quality 2 or 4 channel interface for under 200 bucks.

I wound up replacing it with a Roland QuadCapture and I couldn't be happier: http://www.rolandus.com/products/details/1166

Also, if you buy an audio interface with XLR/TRS combo jacks don't expect to be able to plug a guitar (or anything that requires an instrument cable) into it unless it's specifically labeled as a hi-Z (high impedance) interface. It will clip like a motherfucker and you will never be able to get a clean recording off of it. The main complaint people have about the Focusrite interfaces stems from their inability to properly comprehend product specifications. They have combo jacks but cannot be used for instruments.

hohum fucked around with this message at 15:07 on Jan 4, 2014

hohum
Mar 17, 2010

umoms.
The focusrite stuff is class compliant. Meaning it works without drivers. I might just grab one to play with.

A Winner is Jew
Feb 14, 2008

by exmarx

hohum posted:

The focusrite stuff is class compliant. Meaning it works without drivers. I might just grab one to play with.

I have the 2i4 and aside from having to unplug and plug it back into the USB port every time I open my laptop I've had zero issues with it after I installed ISO4ALL.

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.
Grimey Drawer
I've had the Pro 40 for a long time now, and literally the only complaint I have about it is that there's no MIDI activity indicator light. It's a small thing, but it can be so helpful when diagnosing problems.

cat doter
Jul 27, 2006



gonna need more cheese...australia has a lot of crackers
Ok I think maybe my interface is dead or something weird is wrong with it, because I plug it into my computer and windows recognises it, it installs the necessary drivers, and it's listed in device manager. But when I launch the ASIO utility for it, it says there's no devices plugged in, I can't get any audio out of it, and in the sound menu in the control panel it's not listed at all.

Anyone know what the deal is? It's a Focusrite saffire USB 6 that I've had for quite a few years now.

edit: what the gently caress, I plugged the thing into one of my USB 3 ports and now it works. This motherboard must be dodgy.

cat doter fucked around with this message at 06:12 on Jan 13, 2014

snorch
Jul 27, 2009
I've had similar issues with the Focusrite 8i6, particularly when coming back out of standby or suspend. Usually when I close and reopen the UI a few times it works.

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe
Just added this to the OP: http://www.recordingreview.com/soundcard/soundcard_wizard.php

Dotcom Jillionaire
Jul 19, 2006

Social distortion
I have and can vouch for the MOTU Ultralite Mk3:



It might be a bit more expensive than an M-Audio but it's got a great deal of inserts/outputs, 2 preamp inserts, and is very flexible for most all recording situations. I wish it were expandable like some of MOTUs other recording interfaces but with a mixer and patchbay in my setup I think I can get all I require out of the 8 ins and outs.

H13
Nov 30, 2005

Fun Shoe
By the way, did anybody grab a Universal Audio Apollo? Those things were going to "change everything".

I kinda like the idea of on-board plugins that'll save a boatload on CPU power, but doesn't that date the device a lot? In 5 years time, is anybody going to be using those plugins? It seems really expensive for something that you'll have to continuously update...

Radiapathy
Dec 3, 2011

Snooping as usual, I see.

Hammer Floyd posted:

By the way, did anybody grab a Universal Audio Apollo? Those things were going to "change everything".

I kinda like the idea of on-board plugins that'll save a boatload on CPU power, but doesn't that date the device a lot? In 5 years time, is anybody going to be using those plugins? It seems really expensive for something that you'll have to continuously update...
All I know is, I am not UAD's target audience. For one thing I'm on Windows, and the Apollos didn't have real Windows support for the first year or so? But also- why would I want an interface that's designed to color the sound? All I want in my interface is faithful AD/DA, good performance, and enough I/O to meet my needs. I really just don't see anything the Apollo offers that I can't do other ways cheaper, and more to my liking. But some folks motherfucking dig the Apollos.

On a somewhat related note, MOTU just announced its first Thunderbolt/USB interface: http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828x

Now that's more my speed.

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




Hammer Floyd posted:

Question 5) PC vs. Mac?

First of all, :siren:DO NOT GET INTO A DISCUSSION ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT PC OR MAC IS BETTER FOR RECORDING!:siren: That's an unending discussion. This thread is about the interfaces only. Very long story short? That comes down to personal preference. Some people prefer PC? Some people prefer Mac. I prefer PC. You may prefer Mac. The reason why this question is important is because some interfaces only support Mac, some interfaces are PC only. Double-check before you buy.

How about PC vs Mac (vs Linux vs iPad vs Android)?

I really don't want to get into any kind of discussion of the relative merits, but some of us are nerdy enough to do our audio in Linux, for which compatibility is a big deal, and there are starting to be semi-serious apps out there for tablets too.

For Linux, there's a community-maintained wiki page summarising compatibility (since device manufacturers don't often list this). The more general answer for both Linux and tablets seems to be "is it USB/USB 2 class compliant?", and if it is, it should work. Also, anything that has on-board DSP that you configure using specialised PC/Mac-based software will most likely not work (or will work but only as an interface without the DSP).

Maybe stuff to add to the OP?


All this aside, I own a Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, which seems to be the go-to recommendation for an entry-level, Linux-compatible interface. It works pretty well; the only caveat is that the guitar inputs don't deal well with very hot pickups. My passive (but moderately hot) pickups work fine with the gain on the interface turned right down, but there are tons of reviews out there from people with active pickups saying it doesn't work so well.

That said, the point of hot pickups is to massively overdrive an amp/pedal's preamp, and if you're plugging that much signal into a sensitive piece of audio recording gear, you might possibly be doing it wrong.

Concatenation
Jul 23, 2005

Your human mentality cries out for vengeance and thrives on the violence you say you can hardly endure.
I upgraded from a Focusrite Saffire LE to a Saffire Pro 40 because I was having firewire latency issues. The LE also had comically low headroom so most of my guitars would clip like all hell.

I've had the Pro 40 for a couple of months now and have been very happy, although I haven't done anything more complex than DI guitars and vocals yet. It was also cheap as balls, I think it cost me less than I paid for LE a couple of years previously.

I also got some Adam A5 monitors but I don't have proper stands for them and haven't listened to enough other monitors to give an opinion other than: they are awesome.

polynominal-c
Jan 18, 2003

Any recommendations for a quality USB 2.0 home-recording audio interface with a single (hi-Z) guitar input and low latency for use with Amplitube? A mic preamp is not required.

Still the Scarlett 2i2?

SaintFu
Aug 27, 2006

Where's your god now?
Alesis announced a new series of audio interfaces at NAMM this week:

http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/tech/namm-2014-core-audio-interface-range-revealed-by-alesis-592061/1

I'm particularly interested in the Core 2, but I have no idea about Alesis' reputation for this sort of thing. No detailed specs yet, and no release date. The fact that the pictures are cgi rather than photos may be telling.

Radiapathy
Dec 3, 2011

Snooping as usual, I see.

polynominal-c posted:

Any recommendations for a quality USB 2.0 home-recording audio interface with a single (hi-Z) guitar input and low latency for use with Amplitube? A mic preamp is not required.

Still the Scarlett 2i2?

The 2i2 has terrible latency and a high noise floor. I'd recommend Roland Duo Capture EX. Has a Hi-Z input and everything else the 2i2 does, plus iPad compatibility and MIDI I/O.

ashgromnies
Jun 19, 2004

SaintFu posted:

Alesis announced a new series of audio interfaces at NAMM this week:

http://www.musicradar.com/us/news/tech/namm-2014-core-audio-interface-range-revealed-by-alesis-592061/1

I'm particularly interested in the Core 2, but I have no idea about Alesis' reputation for this sort of thing. No detailed specs yet, and no release date. The fact that the pictures are cgi rather than photos may be telling.

A lot of the large equipment companies are all conglomerated under the InMusic corporation now... Akai, Alesis, M-Audio and more: http://www.inmusicbrands.com

Not sure how that extends to or affects their manufacturing and product design, but it's worth keeping in mind that all these "competitors" are under the same parent.

iostream.h
Mar 14, 2006
I want your happy place to slap you as it flies by.

What's my 'best' option for a 1U interface that has everything a accessible from the front panel?

I want to add one to one of my guitar rigs for impromptu practice/gig recordings. I don't NEED much more than L/R in bit not having to monkey around during setup is key.

Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




Radiapathy posted:

The 2i2 has terrible latency and a high noise floor. I'd recommend Roland Duo Capture EX. Has a Hi-Z input and everything else the 2i2 does, plus iPad compatibility and MIDI I/O.

Do you have some links to people who have tested this?

I don't know how to test for noise floor, but latency's hardly been terrible. I have mine running at 2ms, and push it up to 4ms if I have a lot of effects or a full DAW running. And that's on an i5 processor from like 5 years ago.

I mean, the Roland looks nice, but I don't think a throwaway statement without quantification or qualification does much to recommend it.

It also looks like the Roland doesn't work in Linux (for now -- it just needs some quirk workaround, since other than some hack they put in to circumvent default drivers in Windows it's supposedly UAC compliant).

Radiapathy
Dec 3, 2011

Snooping as usual, I see.

Lead out in cuffs posted:

Do you have some links to people who have tested this?

I don't know how to test for noise floor, but latency's hardly been terrible. I have mine running at 2ms, and push it up to 4ms if I have a lot of effects or a full DAW running. And that's on an i5 processor from like 5 years ago.

I mean, the Roland looks nice, but I don't think a throwaway statement without quantification or qualification does much to recommend it.

"2ms/4ms" at what sample rate and buffer size? Input/output or round-trip?

I own the 2i2 and the Roland, and several other current models. Below are benchmark tests I did a few months ago using the RTL Utility (the tool used for raw performance testing in the DAWBench tests). This tests true round-trip latency.



Tested on the same computer with the same cables where possible, at the same sample rate and buffer settings.

I actually hear plenty of complaints about both the 2i2's poor latency and its relatively high noise floor. :shrug:

Likewise there are plenty of positive reviews out there on the Roland; my "throwaway statement" doesn't exist in a vacuum. I was only mentioning it as a price-competitive alternative to the 2i2.

The Steinberg UR22 is actually better overall in terms of specs (capable of very high sample rates), and I love mine- however there was a manufacturing defect in some of Steinberg's batches that resulted in some noise issues. Steinberg is replacing the units for free as people call in to report them, but who wants to deal with that.

Radiapathy fucked around with this message at 10:10 on Jan 25, 2014

DEUCE SLUICE
Feb 6, 2004

I dreamt I was an old dog, stuck in a honeypot. It was horrifying.

Radiapathy posted:

All I know is, I am not UAD's target audience. For one thing I'm on Windows, and the Apollos didn't have real Windows support for the first year or so? But also- why would I want an interface that's designed to color the sound? All I want in my interface is faithful AD/DA, good performance, and enough I/O to meet my needs. I really just don't see anything the Apollo offers that I can't do other ways cheaper, and more to my liking. But some folks motherfucking dig the Apollos.

On a somewhat related note, MOTU just announced its first Thunderbolt/USB interface: http://www.motu.com/products/motuaudio/828x

Now that's more my speed.

It's not "designed to color the sound." The Apollos have super clean preamps and as good AD/DA as you can get. The thing that makes it different is the DSP chips onboard, which allow you to run UA plugins and offload the processing from your computer to the interface. Nowadays CPUs are powerful enough to run a ton of plugs natively so perhaps the offloading isn't needed, but UA's plugs are very good in their own right (albeit expensive.) Even if you stop using the DSP down the line with new native plugs and new processors the interface won't need replacing.

The place where being able to offload CPU is more beneficial is on laptops, which is why the new Apollo Twin is very interesting. Thunderbolt only, too. Cool stuff.

iostream.h
Mar 14, 2006
I want your happy place to slap you as it flies by.

I am really torn between a MOTU 828mkii and a Scarlett 18i20. I know the MOTU is older (and FireWire) but it's supposed to sound really good.

Any opinions? I know at one point that MOTU was supposed to be 'all that' but can someone help me figure out how it stacks up now?

It'll be used on OS X incidentally.

El Miguel
Oct 30, 2003

iostream.h posted:

I am really torn between a MOTU 828mkii and a Scarlett 18i20. I know the MOTU is older (and FireWire) but it's supposed to sound really good.

Any opinions? I know at one point that MOTU was supposed to be 'all that' but can someone help me figure out how it stacks up now?

It'll be used on OS X incidentally.

I've had a MOTU 896 for quite a few years now, and I love it. I've never had any problems with it until a few weeks ago, when the FW connection went kaput. My understanding is that MOTU will replace/repair for $100. I just need to get around to sending it to them.

Honestly, I love the thing. I've been using it with Logic for years.

Trig Discipline
Jun 3, 2008

Please leave the room if you think this might offend you.
Grimey Drawer
My 828mkII was fried by a power surge despite being plugged into a (lovely) surge protector. I called MOTU to ask how much it would be to fix it, and the dude and I just started chatting about biology and stuff. He ended up fixing it for me for free, even though it was secondhand and I had no proof of purchase. It's probably the best customer service experience I've ever had. I have a Focusrite Safire Pro 40 now, but the next time I upgrade I would strongly consider another MOTU.

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Lead out in cuffs
Sep 18, 2012

"That's right. We've evolved."

"I can see that. Cool mutations."




Radiapathy posted:

"2ms/4ms" at what sample rate and buffer size? Input/output or round-trip?

OK, you've made me go and work out how to measure RTL latency in Linux. That figure is Jack's latency, which the jack_iodelay tool I used to measure RTL latency seems to hint is only capture latency, with RTL DSP latency being three times that or something?

Anyway, using jack_iodelay, my 2i2 gets 12.763ms full RTL (headphone jack out plugged into input 1), with Jack set to 64 frames/period and 3 periods/buffer, at 48kHz. No idea offhand how that would translate to ASIO buffer size, though. At 128 frames/period (what I use when I have the DAW running), the RTL latency is 19.597 ms, which is kinda creeping into perceptible range.

Radiapathy posted:

I own the 2i2 and the Roland, and several other current models. Below are benchmark tests I did a few months ago using the RTL Utility (the tool used for raw performance testing in the DAWBench tests). This tests true round-trip latency.



Tested on the same computer with the same cables where possible, at the same sample rate and buffer settings.

I actually hear plenty of complaints about both the 2i2's poor latency and its relatively high noise floor. :shrug:

This is pretty useful, although those noise floor readings for the 2i2 seem to disagree with the results some quick Googling brought up:

http://www.harmonycentral.com/t5/Expert-Reviews/Focusrite-2i2-USB-2-0-Audio-Interface/ba-p/34645879
http://www.hifizine.com/2012/12/focusrite-scarlett-2i2/

Both talk about noise floors more in the -100dB range. I wonder how much variability there is among the units?

Radiapathy posted:

Likewise there are plenty of positive reviews out there on the Roland; my "throwaway statement" doesn't exist in a vacuum. I was only mentioning it as a price-competitive alternative to the 2i2.

The Steinberg UR22 is actually better overall in terms of specs (capable of very high sample rates), and I love mine- however there was a manufacturing defect in some of Steinberg's batches that resulted in some noise issues. Steinberg is replacing the units for free as people call in to report them, but who wants to deal with that.

Totally, I'm sure this thread will be more useful to goons the more options it discusses.

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