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I’m actually gunna be the odd one out here and argue that price isn’t the major contributor to the game’s decreasing popularity. Yes, it’s a high barrier to entry to get everything, but I don’t think most new players DO get everything. I’m lucky enough to live in an area that has a fairly active Netrunner scene, and most of the new players are totally cool with having sub-optimal decks that they made themselves, while slowly picking up data packs that contain cards that might be able to help their decks out. If they can hang out with nice people and play a fun game, that’s all they mostly care about. Sure, some players will be turned off because they want to be The Best, and need to dump in a load of money to do so, but I don’t think that’s the majority of people that get into the game. Everyone in this thread is fairly serious about the game, and so we’ve all dropped money on most of the card pool, but I don’t know if that’s necessarily representative of most new players that come in. I think the main problem is at the near-competitive level. Netrunner is a great game, but it’s got some big design problems. Sure, every game has them, but I think Netrunner’s problems are in some fatal weak spots. Namely, deck construction. Netrunner may have fixed a lot of Magic’s design problems, but it managed to mess with deck construction in a fairly negative way - in MtG, you need to dedicate space to lands, but then everything else is basically up to you. Sure, you need to make sure you have creatures, but that’s about it. How you go about being defensive, getting card draw, finishing off your opponent, is all SUPER flexible and gives the player a ton of ways to express themselves in their deckbuilding and create something uniquely THEIRS. This is something that…well, exists in netrunner, but is VERY limited. Netrunner just has too many moving parts that are required to succeed in order to have a functioning deck. In Magic, you need 20 or so deck slots to lands. Then you have 40 slots to do what you want with. In Netrunner, as corp, you need 10 or so slots to Agendas, 10ish slots devoted to economy, then at least 15 slots for ice. That leaves a whopping 14 slots for you to do what you want with. If you want to be more safe, you’ll probably run 12 economy cards and 16-18 pieces of ice, and then 3 jacksons, which means a more realistic look is 6~9 slots for what you want to do with your deck. Runners have it no better. You need 12ish slots for economy, probably 6 slots for card draw, 9ish slots for icebreakers, about 5 slots for recursion, 5-6 slots for multi-access, 2-3 slots for memory/console, and then 4-5 slots for various silver bullets against common corp strats, which you’ll probably lose if you don’t include. If we add up all the lower estimates of these, we get a whopping 2 free deck slots. Sure, you can free up some space by carefully choosing cards that accomplish multiple things at once, but it’s still not going to be a ton of free space. Yes, in netrunner how you accomplish all of those tasks is how the customization comes in to play with deck building, but there’s just not nearly enough room for player expression in their decks. And this brings us around to the near-competitive level of play that I mentioned earlier. Highly competitive players don’t give a poo poo about this, they just want to figure out The Best deck and use that, whatever. If you don’t care that much about how good your deck is, you have a lot more room to customize your deck and have it be your thing. However, near-competitive players (like what i suspect most of this thread is) want to make a strong deck, but still have it be THEIRS and still be a bit fun. This is where Netrunner is weakest, I think - its inflexible deckbuilding. Sure, there are ways of going about fulfilling all those slots in personal styles, but if you want your deck to be pretty good, you’re gunna see a lot of repeat cards. I think the cause of this that Netrunner just has too many things going on that are required, and not a lot of cards provide multiple uses. This is definitely one reason why AI breakers are so popular, I think - they free up more deck slots for more tools / customization. Netrunner’s complexity is its biggest fault, and it’s one that can’t easily repair. Designing more cards that do multiple things while still being as strong as other options would probably benefit the game in the long run. It would suck in the short-term, since why wouldn’t you use those cards? But I feel like in the big scheme of things it could do wonders for the game. Honestly an easier option would just be redesigning the game from the ground-up and then rereleasing it. Smooth out some of the complexities in order to streamline the design a bit and give players more options. Agendas are one area I feel like could really use a lot of changing - the vast majority of released agendas are just ignored. Any 3/1 agenda without a ridiculously strong power is generally considered unplayable. Any 5/3 agenda that doesn’t protect itself is generally considered unplayable, except in very specific decks. This could be super easy to change the design of, too - remove Agenda points as a concept, make it so every corp deck needs 10 agendas, then whoever steals / scores 3 (4?) agendas first wins. Keep number of advances, and then base that on how strong the effect on the card is. Or poo poo, just make every agenda require 3 advancements. Whabam, suddenly now the main draw of an agenda is the EFFECT it gives, rather than the numbers on it, and that allows for a shitload more personalization in deckbuilding. CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 16:39 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 16:33
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Am I the odd one out that I basically don't give a poo poo about deck construction?
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Aug 30, 2016 16:58
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Out of genuine curiosity, what do people think is an appropriate entry cost for either a) the entire tournament legal card pool, and b) enough cards to build a set of decks good enough to win a store championship. Like, the wall to get from zero to a complete card pool is clearly absurd at this point, but would it be reasonable for there to be like a $90 super-core set where you get 3x all the core set cards + all the big boxes, and then you supplement with datapacks? Should you be able to buy the entirety of an old cycle for like $30? Like, those numbers are a 50+% discount off the msrp of these cards (and who knows whether it would even be profitable for FFG to print this stuff at that price point, considering the print runs would probably not be that big...I'm admittedly clueless on printing/packaging/distribution costs but it seems plausible that super niche reprint products are not going to be big money makers), and you're still looking at hundreds of dollars for a complete playset and probably at least >$200 if you plan to win a competitive regionals level event, although you could also probably take down a less competitive store championship with core+big boxes+a couple playsets participation promos, which (at least in some places) you'll be showered with just for showing up to league nights or GNKs. Like, would these prices low enough to let the game grow at a reasonable rate, or do y'all think the sticker shock is still going to be there? I honestly have no idea (and not a lot of optimism FFG will take any steps in this direction, regardless).
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Aug 30, 2016 17:09
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StashAugustine posted:Am I the odd one out that I basically don't give a poo poo about deck construction? I'm right there with you. One of the stated goals of the original netrunner was to make deck construction less important and over the board play more important relative to MtG, and I think an unavoidable consequence of that is that there will be fewer interesting decisions during deckbuilding.
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Aug 30, 2016 17:14
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Maybe I put an overimportance on it, but a problem with taking some focus away from deckbuilding is that it’ll result in some stagnation - if decks always need the same few dozen cards, then everything starts to feel really samey and any problems with those cards get amplified. See: Jackson Howard, Faust, Eli 1.0, Clone Chip, etc.
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Aug 30, 2016 17:19
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Static Equilibrium posted:Out of genuine curiosity, what do people think is an appropriate entry cost for either a) the entire tournament legal card pool, and b) enough cards to build a set of decks good enough to win a store championship. The worlds champs decks they just put out are a great start. $15 ($30 for both sides) to get basically every tournament staple - Jackson, Faust, SOT, Caprice Nisei - and (until the MWL) an actual usable deck. They need to do more of this, allowing players to skip buying the honestly-useless $15 Trace Amounts just for the Jacksons.
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Aug 30, 2016 17:19
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Disclaimer: I live in Minneapolis, otherwise known as FFG-land, and as such the closest thing I've witnessed to a drop in popularity is one guy getting kind of burnt out on the game, and occasional state-of-the-meta woes. I definitely don't think that deck construction is an issue. I think the way you're expressing those numbers is being extremely reductionist--to use some recent archetypes, Food Coats looks and plays very differently than IG Bio-Ethics, which plays very differently than CtM, which plays very differently than Argus Rush. Heck, Blue Sun and GRNDL are both typically kill decks, but one of them plays massive ICE to lock the runner out and hugely tax them when they run, while GRNDL is racking up so much bad publicity off of Hostile Takeovers and Profiteerings that they're incapable of anything but a gearcheck. Yes, those decks all have ICE, and they all have agendas, and they all have econ, but even the cards within those same categories look and play very differently. Adonis Campaign and Commercial Banker's Group are both assets that give you three credits a turn, but Adonis is stuck in a scoring server by glacier decks and probably combined with Breaker Bay Grid, so they can extract maximum value, while CBG goes into horizontal decks that are looking to punish runs with Hostile Infrastructure or Hard-Hitting News--getting credits out of it is almost a bonus compared to how it forces the runner's hand. Plenty of decks that happily run Hedge Fund don't even give a thought to Restructure, because they can't make practical use of it. And on, and on. Runner side is the same story. And it's not like the best decks always start out where they end up--Dumblefork started as an Edward Kim deck. Static Equilibrium posted:Out of genuine curiosity, what do people think is an appropriate entry cost for either a) the entire tournament legal card pool, and b) enough cards to build a set of decks good enough to win a store championship. I would love if there was a super-core box, though having the D&D runners in core is kind of questionable. But I think the premades are a great step in the right direction, I'd love to see more of that.
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Aug 30, 2016 17:25
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Actually thinking about it, I feel a bit like they’ve fallen short if their initial goal was to make deckbuilding not as important as gameplay. Yes, they’ve succeeded in player skill being a very real and very important factor (especially compared to most CCGs), but there are tons of very important restrictions in deckbuilding that can cause a player to preemptively shoot themselves in the foot. In Magic, you mostly need to worry about having enough Mana. In Netrunner, you need to worry about having enough econ, having enough breakers / ice, you need to count up influence, etc. Yes, having good skill will always be better than having a good deck, but deckbuilding in netrunner is very restrictive and has a lot of difficult to see pitfalls.
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Aug 30, 2016 17:26
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The Lord of Hats posted:Disclaimer: I live in Minneapolis, otherwise known as FFG-land, and as such the closest thing I've witnessed to a drop in popularity is one guy getting kind of burnt out on the game, and occasional state-of-the-meta woes. That's fair, and good points you’ve brought up. Honestly I’ve blown stuff out of proportion, but I have been kind of frustrated with the game lately and I’m not entirely sure why. Maybe frustrated is the wrong word, but it definitely feels like there’s problems and I’m struggling to put my thumb down on them. I always feel a little constrained when deckbuilding, as it always feels like “okay, time to included these dozen cards that I always need to include” sort of thing. To be fair that’s very likely just my fault, but there’s lots of cards that feel like they could add some fun gameplay, but just never have the deck slots for without sacrificing something else that’s way more important. Cards like The Woman in the Red Dress, TL;DR, etc. I think maybe I’m just not a big fan of Netrunner’s silver bullet design, or at least its implementation of it. Faster cycles, some kind of sideboard, etc would probably do a world of good for solving this kind of thing.
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Aug 30, 2016 17:40
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WITRD and TLDR are just straight bad regardless of slots. Which is my problem- the devs seem to have an increasingly shaky grasp of the power levels of their cards. I've started to swing back to enjoying the game again but I don't have a ton of trust that the game will develop in healthy ways.
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Aug 30, 2016 18:01
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I think you're right about the deck building, actually. In theory it shouldn't be a problem because you can put any effect you like on agendas, etc. In practice that's really hard to get right, so we see only a small handful of agendas seeing (competitive) play. It's less of a problem the less competitive you are about the game, of course.
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Aug 30, 2016 18:02
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Netrunner is a game of a lot of player agency and for some folks that might be too much to start; but, can be made easier. So, they focus on deck building where it's a more controlled environment; however, once the deck is on the table, the actual game of netrunner starts and if bad habits still exist then it can be fustrating. I'm not saying deckbuilding doesn't count, but I've seen discussion put more weight on that end. This also assumes the playing field isn't incredibly disparate. We can all play netinstaller but there should be more emphasis on playing the game from the community. Thankfully, some people do that in their own says like Abrom Jopp's website about teaching the game. Some twitch streamers talk at length about their decisions while making their moves and it's definitely helped my game since I felt like my runner game went into the shitter earlier this year. It takes some time, reflection, and analysis but you can get there. I personally still love playing this game as much as I did back in Jan 2013. It has some problems but the community does a pretty good job mitigating them in my opinion. Draft cubes are still one of the best things you can do with your group. I highly recommend you all do one for your play group. sonatinas fucked around with this message at 18:21 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 18:19
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Lucky Find having less influence cost than Queen's Gambit is a symbol of 1/3 of all that is wrong with Netrunner cards. The other 2/3 being the silver bullet love and the straight up bizarre trash like Disrupter. Actually, make that 1/4, Faust supremacy is a symbol of mathrunner framework starting to creak.
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Aug 30, 2016 18:28
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StashAugustine posted:the devs seem to have an increasingly shaky grasp of the power levels of their cards. I've started to swing back to enjoying the game again but I don't have a ton of trust that the game will develop in healthy ways. The reason Magic has "bad cards" is twofold: One, to sell packs. Two, because exploration is part of the game. Finding interactions is part of the fun. I'm seeing things like Leviathan get printed that feel very similar to 'trap feats.' NetRunner isn't a collectible game, so there's no reason to put strictly worse cards in the game. Anyone capable of elementary-school math will be able to tell the difference between a clearly worse card and a better one. There's also no exploration in the sense that you always (assuming you buy each datapack as it's released) have access to the full card pool, so you never have to make deckbuilding concessions like "I don't own any Serra Angels, maybe I can use Air Elementals" I'm all for powering up underpowered factions. Temujin is pretty strong, but Criminals needed the boost. I think the #1 thing going forward should be to make clearly-stronger cards (like Temujin, Paperclip, BOOM!) be higher-influence. This prevents splashing as easily, so you have to really think about alternatives rather than just which 45/15 to play.
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Aug 30, 2016 18:35
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:Yeah. There's a related story with Monte Cook, and how he designed "trap feats" when making D&D 3rd Edition, taking a cue from MtG and its "bad cards;" but he learned the wrong lesson. This is a good post. Also I’d say that Magic has “bad cards” also because of its huge number of ways people play the game - a card might be real bad in standard, but in sealed or draft it might actually be pretty good, or at least "good enough". While netrunner has draft, it’s definitely not very widely played or super popular, at least not as anything other than a fun change of pace from what i’ve seen. Snowball is probably a good example of this - it's kinda crap relative to the rest of Netrunner, but in a more confined and limited setting it'd probably be pretty good! e: also, I'd like to read that story about Monte Cook, and his logic for designing "trap feats" aside from "Well, magic did it!" CodfishCartographer fucked around with this message at 19:04 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 18:59
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Here are the Magic articles re: bad cards. Magic has good development articles where, even if I disagree with their decision, at least I can see where their design is coming from. http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/when-cards-go-bad-2002-01-28 http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/latest-developments/when-cards-go-bad-part-2-2011-10-14 http://magic.wizards.com/en/articles/archive/making-magic/when-cards-go-bad-revisited-2012-10-22
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Aug 30, 2016 19:29
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I'm not sure how you'd really avoid the whole barrier of entry thing with cost. How many people would you lose if you rebooted the game and made all their cards worthless just for the chance that you'd bring in newer players. Im sure they have some data on that since they did tit with their Game of thrones LCG but speaking as a relatively newer player myself who has most of the cards if they announced a reboot I'd probably not bother. Its just too confusing to do reboots every 8 or whatever years and makes it impossible to recoup any money spent. Coming in late to an established game is just part of the hobby. ITs the exact same thing with X-wing. The best they can do is offer older wanted cards as easy to get participation prizes.
banned from Starbucks fucked around with this message at 19:39 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 19:36
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CodfishCartographer posted:This is a good post. Also I’d say that Magic has “bad cards” also because of its huge number of ways people play the game - a card might be real bad in standard, but in sealed or draft it might actually be pretty good, or at least "good enough". While netrunner has draft, it’s definitely not very widely played or super popular, at least not as anything other than a fun change of pace from what i’ve seen. Snowball is probably a good example of this - it's kinda crap relative to the rest of Netrunner, but in a more confined and limited setting it'd probably be pretty good! I think I repeat this a lot in this thread, but your intuition is pretty spot on the nose w/r/t draft netrunner. I completely understand why drafting ANR is not widely done (msrp on draft packs is insane and maintaining a cube takes a heck of a lot more effort than e.g. a MtG cube), and it sucks because drafting ANR fixes a lot of the problems with the game: there's a huge variety in playable icebreakers/economy/ice, you can put more wacky synergies in your deck and the weird card designs actually do cool things, games have a lot more server building and bluffing and subroutines firing, everyone's footing with respect to what traps/ice might exist is somewhat equalized (maybe except for the person who built the cube)...plus the format is a lot more inclusive of players who are new/aren't fully invested provided experienced players are willing to give advice before/during the draft.
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Aug 30, 2016 19:38
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My problem is that I found a Netrunner sale at an online store and I bought like 6-8 packs to feel like I was 'catching up.' Now I feel loving overwhelmed by so many cards, especially since 90% will never be used in modern decks, and a good 25% of them look like just crap cards. I feel like I will always be behind the people who have played from the start, and had a slow trickle of cards to get used to-- especially in a game where memorizing what card options an opponent can play is crucial. Basically, I feel like the game needs a complete reset every year or so, or like a hard rule that old cards cycles and new cycles can't play together. Yeah people will bitch, but holy poo poo like 90% of all cards are not used now anyhow.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:05
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jeeves posted:My problem is that I found a Netrunner sale at an online store and I bought like 6-8 packs to feel like I was 'catching up.' Rotation is coming. It's still almost a year out, but it will happen. Magic didn't have rotating formats for many years, and while yes some of us want rotation now, it's the sort of thing (saying "you can't use the thing we sold you anymore") that can leave many players, especially low-information players, with some pretty hurt feelings. I'm not sure how much of that is based on historical anecdote (aka Magic's transition to Standard and Eternal formats) and how much is bullshit in this case because of the combination of low barrier of entry and a much-more-invested playerbase. Add in that some things are cycles-long or inter-cycle (like the Stealth chip stuff) and we'll just have to see how hard rotation hits us. This is, of course, ignoring the chance for an updated core set that re-includes important cards like Jackson that would otherwise rotate.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:26
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StashAugustine posted:Am I the odd one out that I basically don't give a poo poo about deck construction? For me it's an important part of the game. I love the mental exercise and puzzle solving aspect that comes with deck building. When a new deck idea is in progress part of my brain is working on it while I'm doing everything else. I took a 10 year break from CCGs and it's the thing I missed the most. Speaking of, I based this on the Nasir Nexus deck but I'd appreciate feedback on the changes. pre:The Hurricane Nasir Meidan: Cyber Explorer Event (8) 3x Diesel 3x Dirty Laundry 1x Levy AR Lab Access 1x Net Celebrity Hardware (13) 3x Clone Chip 3x R&D Interface 3x Rabbit Hole 2x Security Nexus ●●●●● ● 2x Sports Hopper Resource (13) 2x Beth Kilrain-Chang 3x Daily Casts 1x Film Critic 3x Personal Workshop 1x The Helpful AI 3x Underworld Contact Icebreaker (5) 1x Atman 1x Deus X 1x GS Sherman M3 ●● 1x GS Shrike M2 ●● 1x ZU.13 Key Master Program (6) 2x Crescentus ●● 1x Magnum Opus 3x Self-modifying Code 12 influence spent (max 15, available 3) 45 cards (min 45) Cards up to Blood Money Deck built on https://netrunnerdb.com.
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Aug 30, 2016 20:40
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Radish posted:The selling point of the LCG as opposed to traditional collectible card came was that you didn't have to spend money collecting individual cards you just got everything and there was no secondary market. The problem is that Netrunner brings back buying individual cards by releasing data packs with maybe 2 good cards and 15 unplayable garbage cards. Want a Deus X to protect yourself from net damage? Then you're buying the whole A Study in Static pack, which means you're paying for Bullfrog, Net Police, Tyrant, Force of Nature, and Disrupter. And since there is no secondary market, you can't pick up singles cheaper than FFG sells the pack, so every card's price is fixed at $15 for a playset. Which isn't as high as MtG singles can go, but when every card costs that much it adds up. LCGs should be good value because unlike CCGs their distribution system doesn't encourage them to hide the chase rare amid a pile of bulk rares and junk commons. But FFG has pretty much brought back junk commons anyhow. I'm not sure if they did so for cynical cash-grab reasons or if their designers legitimately have no idea how bad cards like Salvage are; considering the presence of 1-ofs in the core set and the designers' interviews blaming the game's meta problems on the unimaginative math-build-obsessed playerbase for not figuring out how to beat Faust with Weyland (???), I'm going to guess it's both. But either way, the game suffers. Theoretically the other advantage of an LCG is that if you buy every pack ever released, you now have the cards for not just one deck but every deck, whereas shelling out money for a MtG deck only gives you that one deck. That was feasible for a while, but now that the card pool is so huge it's pretty much impossible to own everything if you haven't been playing since the start and bought each pack as it was released. But if you only buy the packs you need to finish one deck you're interested in, the leftover cards you get with them won't give you a couple more complete decks, they'll give you a pile of unplayable half-decks with stealth chips but no stealth breakers. Yeah, there might be some staples in common like Jackson Howard, but that's true of MtG decks too. So from a new player's perspective, that's another advantage of Netrunner that has disappeared as the game grew. In my opinion the rotation system FFG has planned is the worst of all possible worlds. Rotating cards at all makes me less inclined to get back into the game because the cards I buy won't last forever and the few sets I already own are going to be illegal, but rotating cards only after they've been around for 6 years does basically nothing to solve the barrier to entry problem because 6 years' worth of cards is still way too much to expect a new player to catch up on. The game needs to either have fast rotation, or no rotation at all. It won't even help address the game's meta problems, since the busted cards are mostly in the core set or later releases, not the genesis cycle. e: 6 cycles not 6 years, so more like 4 years. Still too long. I guess you could start buying packs monthly today and be caught up four years from now, but that's a hell of a long time, and considering FFG's propensity for rebooting games I wouldn't make an investment in Netrunner that won't actually pay off until years in the future. Lottery of Babylon fucked around with this message at 21:32 on Aug 30, 2016 |
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Aug 30, 2016 21:26
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Lottery of Babylon posted:The problem is that Netrunner brings back buying individual cards by releasing data packs with maybe 2 good cards and 15 unplayable garbage cards. Want a Deus X to protect yourself from net damage? Then you're buying the whole A Study in Static pack, which means you're paying for Bullfrog, Net Police, Tyrant, Force of Nature, and Disrupter. And since there is no secondary market, you can't pick up singles cheaper than FFG sells the pack, so every card's price is fixed at $15 for a playset. Which isn't as high as MtG singles can go, but when every card costs that much it adds up. I'd re-release old cards in big (Marvel Legendary-sized) boxes at a super-low cost. Like, all of the Spin Cycle for $49.99 low.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:33
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Static Equilibrium posted:Out of genuine curiosity, what do people think is an appropriate entry cost for either a) the entire tournament legal card pool, and b) enough cards to build a set of decks good enough to win a store championship. I think the best way to get into the game is to find someone getting out, and try to get their cards cheaply. Or play online. Is octgn alive at all any more, or does pretty much everyone use jinteki these days? I just checked some prices out of curiosity and man do data packs add up even with sales.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:38
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Dang ya'll, you can build a decent Netrunner deck without access to the entire card pool.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:41
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Somberbrero posted:Dang ya'll, you can build a decent Netrunner deck without access to the entire card pool. Yeah. Between the World Champs decks giving you staples for $30, you can build a deck, see which packs it needs, and just buy those. The secret, though, is buying collections from people getting out.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:46
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Lottery of Babylon posted:The problem is that Netrunner brings back buying individual cards by releasing data packs with maybe 2 good cards and 15 unplayable garbage cards. Want a Deus X to protect yourself from net damage? Then you're buying the whole A Study in Static pack, which means you're paying for Bullfrog, Net Police, Tyrant, Force of Nature, and Disrupter. And since there is no secondary market, you can't pick up singles cheaper than FFG sells the pack, so every card's price is fixed at $15 for a playset. Which isn't as high as MtG singles can go, but when every card costs that much it adds up. I agree that part of the problem is questionable design decisions but I think another part of the problem is that they have to put out 120 cards a cycle every 9 months or something and there's going to be a shitload of duds if for no other reason than playtesting time. Which is still a problem but one that's harder to fix unless you raise prices or accept less sales.
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Aug 30, 2016 21:53
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Dr. Angela Ziegler posted:What would your solution be? Fantasy Flight seems big on apps now. I would transition the game into an online app like with MTGO but not as ridiculously clunky if it's technically possible and sell sets through that. It would probably require the game to be dumbed down somewhat because right now there's so many spots you can trigger stuff but I think it could stand that.
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Aug 30, 2016 22:23
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Radish posted:Fantasy Flight seems big on apps now. I would transition the game into an online app like with MTGO but not as ridiculously clunky if it's technically possible and sell sets through that. It would probably require the game to be dumbed down somewhat because right now there's so many spots you can trigger stuff but I think it could stand that. If they were gonna do that, they should just straight-up buy jinteki.net, domain and all. It'd be easier for them and it already works better than MODO ever did.
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Aug 30, 2016 22:28
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The big trick is if they have digital rights to develop and maintain the Android License in a digital format. Android is based on the Cyberpunk license and CDPR has the rights to develop video games with that license. Also if they have the money and manpower to upkeep and continue to develop an online platform.
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Aug 30, 2016 22:43
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berenzen posted:The big trick is if they have digital rights to develop and maintain the Android License in a digital format. Android is based on the Cyberpunk license and CDPR has the rights to develop video games with that license. Alsciende's been doing it for free. Hire him.
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Aug 30, 2016 22:45
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berenzen posted:The big trick is if they have digital rights to develop and maintain the Android License in a digital format. Android is based on the Cyberpunk license and CDPR has the rights to develop video games with that license. Is Android really based on Cyberpunk? I thought it was an original IP based on the Android board game/insanity simulator
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Aug 30, 2016 22:51
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I'm not sure if I can really comment on anything here. I still love and have fun with the game. I don't play competitively, which is where most of the problems seem to be coming from - down here I can play Builder of Nations just fine. But I might quit collecting after Flashpoint unless something really excites me. The griping from the rest of the community is really getting to me. If I had to toss my hat into the ring, I'd suggest - 1) Faster Rotation. Like, we should have rotated already. Only have three or four cycles going at a time or something. It'd get rid of DLR bullshit for sure, and remove all the dumb IDs (Whizzard) from the game, and we'd move onto Faust and such fairly quickly. What would the meta look like with just SanSan, Mumbad and Flashpoint cards? 2) Turn the big boxes into little theme-duel decks featuring cards from the cyle and a few core-set cards. Like, have a Reina headlock vs a GRNDL rush theme deck for Spin, a Leela vs NEXT Design deck for Lunar, a Chronos vs Hayley deck for SanSan, etc. That'd help lower the barrier to entry and make it so you have to buy fewer packs. Make them have unique IDs to spice it up as well. 3) Some kind of boss/commander mode for multiplayer? Like, a CEO vs multiple runners, and the CEOs have crazy powers? They could be sold like Commander Decks. 4) Spend more time playtesting for god's sake. I could see a rework happening - there's a lot of mechanics that feel like holdovers from the original game - but I personally don't want that as I'm attached to what I have now. I also don't want an app as I really enjoy my physical collection and people on Jinteki are all horrible.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:01
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StashAugustine posted:Is Android really based on Cyberpunk? I thought it was an original IP based on the Android board game/insanity simulator Netrunner (original recipe) was based on Cyberpunk, Android is just based on all sci-fi ever.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:09
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Oh right yeah. They can throw up Android, Infilitration, New Angeles, whatever; but WOTC still has a finger in the Netrunner pie.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:12
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If they dropped Netrunner and just made a bunch of cool Android poo poo I'd be sad but down for it. Worlds of Android was one of the coolest purchases I made because it made Haas-Bioroid interesting and really brought home the classic themes of cyberpunk. I'd play Android-themed versions of my favourite games all day. King of New Angeles.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:20
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The Deleter posted:If they dropped Netrunner and just made a bunch of cool Android poo poo I'd be sad but down for it. Worlds of Android was one of the coolest purchases I made because it made Haas-Bioroid interesting and really brought home the classic themes of cyberpunk. I'd play Android-themed versions of my favourite games all day. World of Netrunner made me want an RPG in that setting. It would be interesting but might be hard balancing running on stuff since I expect that would be boring for all the non hacker characters.
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Aug 30, 2016 23:54
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Radish posted:World of Netrunner made me want an RPG in that setting. It would be interesting but might be hard balancing running on stuff since I expect that would be boring for all the non hacker characters. While true, you easily sidestep this by having everyone play hackers, sort of how FFG's Star Wars game solved the problem of "the Jedi has all the fun" with "you're all fukken jedi now"
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Aug 31, 2016 01:44
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But I don't want to be a jedi... Honestly the android world has a lot of cool stuff in it and making it hacker centered I think misses stuff. The setting started as a Blade Runner rip off board game where you investigated murders with your different investigators like Caprice Nisei and Noise was one of the potential killers. Eggplant Squire fucked around with this message at 02:02 on Aug 31, 2016 |
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Aug 31, 2016 01:59
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| # ? May 5, 2024 20:39 |
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When I started, there was just one expansion out, and the first 12 data packs. Even then, what bugged me the most was how much of a cynical cash grab it was to need 3 core sets for a full playset of all core cards. I'm not an economics person, but to a certain degree, I can understand the rationale - even if the game isn't a big success, making every dedicated and competitive player shell out three times means you make a lot of cash while the data packs trickle out. But once you do have the card pool, the triple core set becomes an additional barrier to entry for new players, even if there's arguably only one card left that you want three of. It's a pipe dream, because it won't happen with the rotation, but 'complete cycle' sets for older datapacks at a discount would have been my preference, as well as a new deluxe core set that gives you a complete playset of everything. But really, the two biggest dampers for my enthusiasm is bullshit cards finding their way through play-testing, which, in my mind, really only started in the SanSan Cycle with Faust and Wireless Net Pavilion, and general power creep that makes cards that used to be perfectly serviceable obsolete. Hunter never saw much play, back when tag-me Andromeda was all the rage, and all you needed to avoid any serious tag punishment was Plascrete Carapaces. But Hunter has perfectly legit stats. Except now there's also Gutenberg, News Hound and Turnpike, all of which do more, for insignificant trade-offs.
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Aug 31, 2016 02:04
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